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IPSE/QDos renewal, IR35 insurance seems sketchy

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    #11
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    Whoooaaa... Who's let you out your box today??!!!! :|
    I've just had to read 122 pages of HMRC blurb someone had to suffer
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      #12
      Originally posted by NibblyPig View Post
      Rule #1 of insurance is never trust anything that isn't written into a contract. Nothing personal. I can praise all the insurance companies I've worked with that I've never claimed from, but 100% of those I have have tried to shaft me over in various ways, often due to the small print. While it is easy to make those claims now, when faced with £50,000 worth of costs any insurance company will try to wriggle out of it, as I have seen so many times.

      You get a feel for it when you argue with an insurance company that doesn't want to pay out for someone who "failed to notify them prior to seeking medical attention" after collapsing and being rushed to hospital abroad and having bills over 100,000 euros...

      If it covers regardless of contract, why do the free contract reviews?
      No, I agree entirely - it's always important to check the fine print of any insurance cover and I routinely do it myself. The fact that there are standard insurance clauses always makes it difficult for me to categorically reassure people about our IR35 cover, but we are very different from the typical ‘insurer’ and I’m sure we approach claims in a different way. From an insurance perspective we act as a broker for the insurer, but the TLC35 policy was designed by us and obviously we manage all claims. If we ever started down the ‘get out clause’ route I dread to think of the damage that would do our reputation.

      Without wanting to romanticise it, we actually really like dealing with enquiries. We have a team of consultants who eagerly await their next case, and obviously winning in an enquiry is a positive for everyone.

      The assessments are provided because most contractors – for their own peace of mind - like to ensure their contracts are as good as possible from an IR35 perspective. Obviously a good written contract helps in an enquiry, so it’s handy for us too, but has no impact on the policy itself.
      Qdos Contractor - IR35 experts

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        #13
        That is somewhat reassuring. The previous IR35 product QDos had required you to have certain clauses in your contract such as a substitution right, those seem to have gone.

        Out of interest, the free contract reviews don't appear to include negotiation, is that something you can add on, or do you think that in most cases it's not required as the feedback from the reviews is sufficiently clear that the client can easily amend their contract without panicking and bailing on the whole thing?
        Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes.

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          #14
          Originally posted by NibblyPig View Post
          That is somewhat reassuring. The previous IR35 product QDos had required you to have certain clauses in your contract such as a substitution right, those seem to have gone.
          Years ago we had a more comprehensive risk assessment - which included a contract review - but as we've built up a larger case history we've been able to simplify the process somewhat.

          Originally posted by NibblyPig View Post
          Out of interest, the free contract reviews don't appear to include negotiation, is that something you can add on, or do you think that in most cases it's not required as the feedback from the reviews is sufficiently clear that the client can easily amend their contract without panicking and bailing on the whole thing?
          Negotiation is definitely included in the free assessments. Just ask your consultant and they'll be more than happy to deal with the agent directly. The feedback is generally pretty clear in terms of what needs to be done, but it's entirely up to you.
          Qdos Contractor - IR35 experts

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            #15
            Originally posted by Qdos Contractor View Post
            Years ago we had a more comprehensive risk assessment - which included a contract review - but as we've built up a larger case history we've been able to simplify the process somewhat.



            Negotiation is definitely included in the free assessments. Just ask your consultant and they'll be more than happy to deal with the agent directly. The feedback is generally pretty clear in terms of what needs to be done, but it's entirely up to you.
            I may have misunderstood something, but after speaking to Qdos consultant who has reviewed my contract this morning, I felt that my TLC35 insurance is not going to be valid unless I clearly have a right to substitute (which is included in the contract but I doubt that the end client would accept it in reality).

            Thinking of cancelling TLC35 and going with IPSE instead who I think would represent me either way.
            Last edited by squirrel99; 26 February 2016, 11:24.

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              #16
              Originally posted by squirrel99 View Post
              I may have misunderstood something, but after speaking to Qdos consultant who has reviewed my contract this morning, I felt that my TLC35 insurance is not going to be valid unless I clearly have a right to substitute (which is included in the contract but I doubt that the end client would accept it in reality).

              Thinking of cancelling TLC35 and going with IPSE instead who I think would represent me either way.
              The TLC is based on your perception of the actual working practices. With issues like substitution you're never going to know the answer definitively, but we're just trying to build a broad overview.

              Drop me a PM if you'd like to discuss substitution in more depth.
              Qdos Contractor - IR35 experts

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                #17
                Originally posted by Qdos Contractor View Post
                The TLC is based on your perception of the actual working practices. With issues like substitution you're never going to know the answer definitively, but we're just trying to build a broad overview.

                Drop me a PM if you'd like to discuss substitution in more depth.
                Just a quick update on our pm to other forum readers - Seb was really helpful and looks like I am fine after all
                Last edited by squirrel99; 26 February 2016, 16:16.

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                  #18
                  Hi, I was looking into QDOS's TLC35 (the more expensive package, which covers the cost of any penalties along with the cost of representation) and hit a quandary: in order to be covered by it you have to agree that
                  • You are able to exercise a Right of Substitution
                  • You have autonomy over your method of work and are not subject to the same level of supervision or control as your clients’ employees

                  Surely if these two points are true, then there's basically no risk of HMRC winning against you to begin with and imposing any penalties?
                  It seems like there's no real additional cover with this and you're better off just opting for the cheaper "representation only" package. Am I missing something?

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                    #19
                    Originally posted by deeter View Post
                    Hi, I was looking into QDOS's TLC35 (the more expensive package, which covers the cost of any penalties along with the cost of representation) and hit a quandary: in order to be covered by it you have to agree that
                    • You are able to exercise a Right of Substitution
                    • You have autonomy over your method of work and are not subject to the same level of supervision or control as your clients’ employees

                    Surely if these two points are true, then there's basically no risk of HMRC winning against you to begin with and imposing any penalties?
                    It seems like there's no real additional cover with this and you're better off just opting for the cheaper "representation only" package. Am I missing something?
                    As someone who has held the insurance for nearly as long as I've been contracting and just renewed I think it really depends on your approach to risk. While you may well right, can you afford to pay any fines/penalties if the worst should ever happen?

                    For the cost 1-2 days billing per annum, I think it's money well spent. I'm under no illusion that an IR35 investigation is a walk in the park, even if you are covered through QDOS or any other policy.

                    I think we're going to see an onslaught of activity over the next couple of years, regardless of what the government are currently saying. However, we can only hope HMRC keep losing at tribunals and that someone will eventually question why so much money is being wasted on pursuing fruitless investigations.

                    Comment


                      #20
                      Originally posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
                      For the cost 1-2 days billing per annum, I think it's money well spent. I'm under no illusion that an IR35 investigation is a walk in the park, even if you are covered through QDOS or any other policy.
                      Totally this.
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