Working for a US company in the UK with maybe European work Working for a US company in the UK with maybe European work - Page 4
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Posts 31 to 40 of 54
  1. #31

    I live on CUK

    SueEllen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    in the Park
    Posts
    29,564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gremlinsky View Post
    I get that - I'm just confused as to why the company have not made sure everyone understands how to deal with the tax side of things
    Why should they?

    It's up to you to deal with it as a supplier to them.
    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

  2. #32

    Nervous Newbie


    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SueEllen View Post
    Why should they?

    It's up to you to deal with it as a supplier to them.
    Fair enough - but given the various different countries tax authorities are now chained together if I mess up with Danish tax I could easily have the HMRC on my back and the company could be dealing with the IRS - I would have though it would be in their interest to make sure their suppliers are doing things by the book.

  3. #33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gremlinsky View Post
    I get that - I'm just confused as to why the company have not made sure everyone understands how to deal with the tax side of things
    Because it's completely irrelevant to them. You're not their employee. When you purchase Google Apps for work, do you provide Google with guidance on their tax residency? Aside from that, you're setting yourself up to have very complex tax affairs where you may be resident in three countries, depending on the rules in Denmark and Finland. You'd almost certainly be resident under the SRT in the UK according to your OP. You don't get much more complicated than that.
    Last edited by jamesbrown; 27th September 2016 at 09:33.

  4. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gremlinsky View Post
    Fair enough - but given the various different countries tax authorities are now chained together if I mess up with Danish tax I could easily have the HMRC on my back and the company could be dealing with the IRS - I would have though it would be in their interest to make sure their suppliers are doing things by the book.
    Their responsibilities are not your concern. They should be asking you to sign a W8-BEN-E on behalf of YourCo, to avoid withholding tax, but whether they do or not is another matter.

  5. #35

    Nervous Newbie


    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    Because it's completely irrelevant to them. You're not their employee. When you purchase Google Apps for work, do you provide Google with guidance on their tax residency? Aside from that, you're setting yourself up to have very complex tax affairs where you may be resident in three countries, depending on the rules in Denmark and Finland. You'd almost certainly be resident under the SRS in the UK according to your OP. You don't get much more complicated than that.
    That's not what I was told when I spoke to the expert at ITS International - he said the client I was working for could absolutely be looking at an IRS investigation.

    This is the problem I have - I have spoken to several people on several forums and in several companies who are actively dealing with people in these countries and they all seem to have a different opinion on what the possibilities are in my case. All are completely adamant that they are correct and I am a complete numpty for asking the sorts of questions I am asking.

  6. #36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gremlinsky View Post
    That's not what I was told when I spoke to the expert at ITS International - he said the client I was working for could absolutely be looking at an IRS investigation.

    This is the problem I have - I have spoken to several people on several forums and in several companies who are actively dealing with people in these countries and they all seem to have a different opinion on what the possibilities are in my case. All are completely adamant that they are correct and I am a complete numpty for asking the sorts of questions I am asking.
    It's the agency that's responsible for withholding if that applies, not you. Of course the IRS can examine your status, in the same way that HMRC can examine your status, but you're not tax resident in the US (or a US citizen, I assume) so you don't have the responsibilities of a US tax resident.

    I understand your frustration w/r to expert advice. I've received poor advice from international tax experts in the past, but you need to choose your experts carefully (the wealth teams at the big 4 are generally good, but eyewateringly expensive) and do sufficient research yourself to know whether something they're suggesting is questionable. In some cases, they will be offering an opinion or an interpretation.

  7. #37

    I live on CUK

    SueEllen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    in the Park
    Posts
    29,564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gremlinsky View Post
    .

    This is the problem I have - I have spoken to several people on several forums and in several companies who are actively dealing with people in these countries and they all seem to have a different opinion on what the possibilities are in my case. All are completely adamant that they are correct and I am a complete numpty for asking the sorts of questions I am asking.
    Did you attempt to have a read of the tax pages of the relevant countries to see if their interpretations stood up in what you are doing? You have no excuse as both Denmark and Finland have pages in English.
    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

  8. #38

    Nervous Newbie


    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SueEllen View Post
    Did you attempt to have a read of the tax pages of the relevant countries to see if their interpretations stood up in what you are doing? You have no excuse as both Denmark and Finland have pages in English.
    Yup - I've been trawling through both country's web sites.

  9. #39

    Should post faster


    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North West
    Posts
    114

    Default This is a bit long, but hope to simplify matters......

    It does get complex when you look at different services and payment models available, but it doesn't have to.

    When undertaking an international role with a long contractual chain, try to take all other parties out of the equation. There is only two 'pins in the map' that matter to you. Where do you live (ordinarily resident) and where do you work (resident for tax purposes). This is the relationship you need to look at. Unless, for you, one of these pins is in the US, then it is irrelevant to your tax position that the agency is there.

    If you are delivering services that require you to physically be in Denmark, you need to understand who your economic employer is, as mentioned by Sue Ellen. This is not the agency, not your limited company, and not any payroll company. It is the entity that ultimately bears the cost of your services, and benefits from them.

    If this entity has a permanent establishment in Denmark, then you are taxable in Denmark from day 1 for the work you do there. Permanent establishment exists in most cases, even if it is just a site office.

    Now, if you then have to go on to do some work in Finland, and this work is under the same contract as the one you have in Denmark, then you are on a business trip, from Denmark, not from the UK. Providing you don't exceed 183 days in Finland then no taxation is due there. Danish tax is still due.

    If you have a separate contract to work in Finland then you apply the same thought processes as above regarding economic employer etc.

    The 183 day doesn't apply in these scenarios. The 183 day rule is really for employees on business trips, not for contractors on assignment. When you are (economically) employed, for example, by a UK company, and you have a UK contract to provide your services to a UK client, and then, as part of this contract, you are asked to visit other countries, to continue to work you do for the UK client, and you will be in those countries for less than 183 days, then at no point do you become resident in the host country. There is no contract to work there. The economic employer doesn't have a PE which is paying for your services or benefiting from your employment and you wont become personally resident unless you are there for more than 183 days. (for Denmark and Finland this is 183 in any 12 month period).

    Once you know what your tax status is, and where you are due to pay tax, it is at this point that you should then look for an appropriate payment method that meets these specific needs.

    Finally it is worthwhile pointing out that the only authority that can decide that you are not liable to tax in Denmark is the Danish Tax office. It is not up to HMRC, client, agency or payroll provider to make that call in advance of the contract starting. If you had any doubts at all, you can always put in a call to the local authority to discuss.

    HTH

  10. #40

    Should post faster


    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North West
    Posts
    114

    Default

    Sorry, for completeness meant to say, social security/NI is a whole new ball game. Whereas you can be taxable in more than one country at a time (hence the double taxation relief agreements) you can only be resident for NI in one country at a time.

    By default this is always where you work (host country). This is why we have reciprocal agreements (RA) for social security with most EU/EEA and commonwealth countries as well as a number of others.

    In order to remove the local liability, and providing your home country has a RA with the host country, you will need an A1 Certificate, which confirms your ongoing 'habitual residence' in your home country, removing the local liability and allowing you to pay home country contributions, protect long term benefits, pension etc.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •