Outside of IR35 so I should opt out ? or I shouldn't ? Outside of IR35 so I should opt out ? or I shouldn't ?
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  1. #1

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    Default Outside of IR35 so I should opt out ? or I shouldn't ?

    My working practices are outside of IR35. Few accountancy firms also did an initial ir35 review (I don't know how accuretly they did it but few of them said I fall outside IR35)

    According to https://www.contractoruk.com/agency_...tside_awr.html , I am not in the scope.

    However,

    https://www.contractoruk.com/agencie...r_opt_out.html indicates that opting in or out is IR35 neutral, if the working practices are outside of IR35, so it won't have any effect on my IR35 status if I opt out as my agency recommended to me.

    Here, Should I Opt In or Opt Out of the Employment Agency and Employment Business Regulations 2003?,

    it says I should opt out in order to prove I am working outside of IR35. I am very confused by the different opinions I found. I don't know what will be good for me to choose. I believe opting in will at least secure my payments by the client and agency, but on the other hand in my contract it says my payment can be delayed or not payed at all if the invoices are not submitted properly or no work has been done or if the work didn't satisfy the client. Since there is such a clause on my contract, I don't know if opting in will still secure my payment. I am quite confused


    PS : This is the opt out agreement

    OPT OUT AGREEMENT
    THE CONDUCT OF EMPLOYMENT AGENCIES AND EMPLOYMENT BUSINESSES REGULATIONS 2003
    Pursuant to Regulation 32 of the Conduct Regulations and in accordance with IR35, I hereby give notice that I agree that the Conduct Regulations shall not apply to my dealings and the provision of work finding services by the Employment Business.
    Last edited by aeroeng; 24th January 2018 at 00:08.

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    You appear to be conflating three things

    IR35
    The Agency Worker Regulations
    The Agency Conduct Regulations

    IR35 depends on working practices more than contract terms, although contract terms are a good start. You should get it reviewed by an IR35 expert like QDOS, Abbey Tax, B&C.

    If your working practices are outside IR35, then you will not be subject to AWR, and your agency may well want you to sign something to ensure that you agree with that assessment.

    Agency Conduct Regulations are different. They provide extra protections around getting paid, notice periods etc. There is no good reason to opt out, but if you do, then get your contract reviewed for commercial terms to ensure that the protections are written into the contract.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by aeroeng View Post
    My working practices are outside of IR35. Few accountancy firms also did an initial ir35 review (I don't know how accuretly they did it but few of them said I fall outside IR35)

    According to https://www.contractoruk.com/agency_...tside_awr.html , I am not in the scope.

    However,

    https://www.contractoruk.com/agencie...r_opt_out.html indicates that opting in or out is IR35 neutral, if the working practices are outside of IR35, so it won't have any effect on my IR35 status if I opt out as my agency recommended to me.

    Here, Should I Opt In or Opt Out of the Employment Agency and Employment Business Regulations 2003?,

    it says I should opt out in order to prove I am working outside of IR35. I am very confused by the different opinions I found. I don't know what will be good for me to choose. I believe opting in will at least secure my payments by the client and agency, but on the other hand in my contract it says my payment can be delayed or not payed at all if the invoices are not submitted properly or no work has been done or if the work didn't satisfy the client. Since there is such a clause on my contract, I don't know if opting in will still secure my payment. I am quite confused
    If you are outside of IR35 then you are not under control of the client so the regulations won't apply anyway. There is nothing to opt out of.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0n1k3r View Post
    If you are outside of IR35 then you are not under control of the client so the regulations won't apply anyway. There is nothing to opt out of.
    Any evidence to support that supposition that the regulations don't apply if you are outside IR35?

    You're not the first person to suggest it, but I'd like to see the evidence / cases / tribunals that indicate your view to be the correct one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahorse17 View Post
    You appear to be conflating three things

    IR35
    The Agency Worker Regulations
    The Agency Conduct Regulations

    IR35 depends on working practices more than contract terms, although contract terms are a good start. You should get it reviewed by an IR35 expert like QDOS, Abbey Tax, B&C.

    If your working practices are outside IR35, then you will not be subject to AWR, and your agency may well want you to sign something to ensure that you agree with that assessment.

    Agency Conduct Regulations are different. They provide extra protections around getting paid, notice periods etc. There is no good reason to opt out, but if you do, then get your contract reviewed for commercial terms to ensure that the protections are written into the contract.

    Yes you are right I confused AWR and ACR. here what it says in my contract

    OPT OUT AGREEMENT
    THE CONDUCT OF EMPLOYMENT AGENCIES AND EMPLOYMENT BUSINESSES REGULATIONS 2003
    Pursuant to Regulation 32 of the Conduct Regulations and in accordance with IR35, I hereby give notice that I agree that the Conduct Regulations shall not apply to my dealings and the provision of work finding services by the Employment Business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Any evidence to support that supposition that the regulations don't apply if you are outside IR35?

    You're not the first person to suggest it, but I'd like to see the evidence / cases / tribunals that indicate your view to be the correct one.

    I sent my contract to danbro and they said it "seems like" you are outside. I don't have so much money to send it to private companies to run IR35 review right now..

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by aeroeng View Post
    I don't have so much money to send it to private companies to run IR35 review right now..
    You don't have 50 quid for a basic review from Qdos?

    Feck, don't mention the war(chest)!

    Not necessarily advocating this BTW - you get what you pay for - but it's better than nothing.

    It's going to cost you a lot more than 50 quid if you get it wrong though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aeroeng View Post
    I sent my contract to danbro and they said it "seems like" you are outside. I don't have so much money to send it to private companies to run IR35 review right now..
    Whether you are inside IR35 or outside is irrelevant to IR35 - if anyone can show a tribunal / court case / piece of legislation that says that if you are outside IR35 then you cannot be subject to the regulations then I'd like to see it (which was the point I was making).

    Personally, I never opt out of the regulations.
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    Is this for a private or public sector client?

    Is this related to thread about umbrellas back in December?
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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    Is this for a private or public sector client?

    Is this related to thread about umbrellas back in December?
    Umbrellas are irrelevant now. I set up a company now. (using DanBro...) It is a private sector, no projects with public sector

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