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Another contractor IR35 win

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    Another contractor IR35 win

    Another contractor has defeated HMRC in the latest in a flurry of IR35 rulings to emerge in 2018. In the IR35 case of Jensal Software Ltd v Revenue & Customs, IT contractor, Ian Wells, successfully appealed a total tax bill exceeding £26,000.
    Last edited by Contractor UK; 12 October 2018, 21:42.

    #2
    Hmm.. Surely there are some pretty big ripples here. Anyone deemed inside at the DWP (which I thought most were due to CL1 etc) now have the evidence that they are actually outside (well most). If I was deemed inside at DWP after the April change I would be absolutely frothing right now and be ringing IPSE, QDOS etc.

    Interesting it is DWP as well. CL1 has long since been assumed to be an IR35 nightmare so if that get's a pass I can't see how anything will fail now.

    EDIT : OK some of that might be out of date. It was back in 2014 CL1 appeared to be a nightmare and there were comments about it being re-written. https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...contracts.html
    Last edited by northernladuk; 17 May 2018, 08:39.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Hmmm. This article is talking about the opposite scenario https://www.contractoruk.com/news/00...you_avoid.html


      This is the scenario:

      Client confirms that chosen temporary worker is caught by IR35
      Hiring manager then appoints agency payroll/umbrella organisation
      The agency payroll/umbrella organisation is purposefully engaged to deem the temporary worker outside IR35, which it does.
      Damned if you're inside, damed if you're outside.
      "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
      - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
        Hmm.. Surely there are some pretty big ripples here. Anyone deemed inside at the DWP (which I thought most were due to CL1 etc) now have the evidence that they are actually outside (well most). If I was deemed inside at DWP after the April change I would be absolutely frothing right now and be ringing IPSE, QDOS etc.

        Interesting it is DWP as well. CL1 has long since been assumed to be an IR35 nightmare so if that get's a pass I can't see how anything will fail now.

        EDIT : OK some of that might be out of date. It was back in 2014 CL1 appeared to be a nightmare and there were comments about it being re-written. https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...contracts.html
        It was all discussed at length in 2012 in the Public Sector Contracting sticky here : https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...ntracting.html

        The original CL1 contract was a balls up and was re-written after a good chunk of the contractors affected refused to sign it. IPSE (Then still PCG) got involved and it was generally accepted as IR35 friendly in the end. That still leaves the issue of departments making blanket decisions re IR35 but this judgement shouldn't be a surprise really.
        "Being nice costs nothing and sometimes gets you extra bacon" - Pondlife.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by cojak View Post
          Hmmm. This article is talking about the opposite scenario https://www.contractoruk.com/news/00...you_avoid.html




          Damned if you're inside, damed if you're outside.
          There they are talking about a deliberate arrangement between the client and the agency such that even if the client has made a blanket decision on IR35 the hiring manager deliberately engages the contractor via an agency that has agreed to declare the contract outside of IR35.

          The client and agency are colluding to put the contract outside.

          I wasn't really impressed with that article to be honest. It doesn't really justify *why* the client and agency would behave in this way, and then goes off topic to highlight risks that we face anyway regarding rogue agencies and dodgy tax schemes that are already an issue and unrelated to the "problem" the article highlights.

          We already know that there is always a risk that the contract between agency and client does not reflect the contract between agency and contractor and this scenario is no different.
          "Being nice costs nothing and sometimes gets you extra bacon" - Pondlife.

          Comment


            #6
            There’s an FOI response from DWP which states that (at August 2017) 322 out of 338 contractors are deemed outside.

            Comment


              #7
              A splendid story, and well done to Mr Wells and Qdos.

              It really is all a bit hopeless... We're running around, trying to get ourselves buttoned up with this and that level of understanding, and at the end of the day, it all looks like a crapshoot.

              Comment


                #8
                Andy Vessey write up here

                https://www.qdoscontractor.com/ir35/...re-ltd-vs-hmrc

                The guy had already survived one IR35 inquiry.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Although it would be necessary to attend progress meetings, it was essentially left to Mr Wells’ discretion as to whether to attend or not.
                  I see. Well played indeed.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If HMRC can't understand their own rules regarding IR35 how can they expect anyone else to.

                    Instead of chasing the individual I can see how they'll put the onus on the client to deem whether contract is inside or not, then HMRC can go after the bigger companies that get it wrong. Though many clients will blanket deem inside IR35 to avoid the risk of investigation and penalty, until that is seen as fraud in its own right and they get investigated anyway.

                    For now get a contract blanket deemed inside IR35, a suitable rate uplift to offset it, and wait for the misselling payback when it turns out you were not inside IR35 after all.
                    Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down. Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

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