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Legal action / Mislead contract was outside IR35

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    #31
    Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post
    So back to my original question, should the supplier be taken to court for not doing this properly?
    As I said in my reply.

    The agency would not have visibility of the day to day working practices. They just gave you a contract.

    You are the supplier. Are you going to sue yourself because you did not conduct yourself in a manner compliant to the contract?

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      #32
      Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post
      I can almost see where the OP is coming from to some extent, but when you state that you stayed in this position for a year, then it starts to unravel quickly.

      For context, I had a contract which was deemed outside IR35. I had it checked with QDOS - all fine - yes, it's outside.
      Within a short space of time, it was the on the ground practices & day to day experiences where things made it much clearer.
      Advising when I could/should come & go, asking me why I'm leaving at such & such a time, & other examples of interference, direction, & attempted control which quickly raised flags. I had a minor bust-up over it with one of the contractors. I concluded it was clearly inside.

      The irony was, many of the people there were contractors, who clearly had no idea themselves about IR35, yet they felt safe & assured because of the contract being deemed 'outside' (by the managing agency), many of whom hadn't even bothered to have the contract checked by the likes of QDOS.

      I left a week later.
      Thank you! This is the situation I see a lot. I wish I had the knowledge I have now back then.

      But it's still a shame that companies did not respect their side of the terms; Good, genuine people can really get screwed over.
      Last edited by cyborg1337; 23 February 2020, 15:50.

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        #33
        Originally posted by ladymuck View Post
        As I said in my reply.

        The agency would not have visibility of the day to day working practices. They just gave you a contract.

        You are the supplier. Are you going to sue yourself because you did not conduct yourself in a manner compliant to the contract?
        I'm going to pay my taxes and sue the company for misleading and doing this to all of their contractors! I wish I could

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post
          I know so many guys, who are trying to operate outside of IR35, but the client is just making it really confusing them to determine the status.
          You know the status now, so you should pay the taxes due as you understand them to be now.

          Are you going to?

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post
            Not really mate; A lot of companies are not respecting the terms of the contract. And sometimes it's difficult to just call it quits; This is quite a common problem contractors face.

            I know so many guys, who are trying to operate outside of IR35, but the client is just making it really confusing them to determine the status.
            The contract has nothing to do with the end client - it is / was written by the agency in the middle to attract a suitable candidate from whom they earn some commission.

            All you are doing with these posts is confirming my opinion of the post April changes - that it is essential that it is the end client who determines the status (not the contractor) and that HMRC's statement that most people were wrongly claiming to be outside IR35, is correct.
            merely at clientco for the entertainment

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              #36
              Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post
              Not really mate; A lot of companies are not respecting the terms of the contract. And sometimes it's difficult to just call it quits; This is quite a common problem contractors face.

              I know so many guys, who are trying to operate outside of IR35, but the client is just making it really confusing them to determine the status.
              Out of interest, what terms of the contract you signed were the consultancy and/or end client in breach of? And how would you know, seeing as your contract was with the agency? What contractual obligations did they have to you or YourLtd?

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post
                I'm going to pay my taxes and sue the company for misleading and doing this to all of their contractors! In the ideal world, that's what I would like to do.
                OK, fairplay.

                Don't waste your money on suing the agency for breach of contract though. Either the working practices changed very gradually and you allowed that (no case to answer) or you failed to do anything when they became apparently very different than the contract (no case to answer). Either way, there is no case to answer.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post
                  Thank you! This is the situation I see a lot. I wish I had the knowledge I have now back then.

                  But it's still a shame that companies did not respect their side of the terms; Good, genuine people can really get screwed over.
                  Yep, I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, always.
                  Key thing is to learn from this now & get to a place where, in the future, you can quickly understand things better & make the right call at the right time....if there is a future place, that is.
                  Clarity is everything

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer View Post
                    Out of interest, what terms of the contract you signed were the consultancy and/or end client in breach of? And how would you know, seeing as your contract was with the agency? What contractual obligations did they have to you or YourLtd?
                    I'll give you guys a few examples.

                    1. You finish your contract and they put a perm in your place or vice versa.

                    2. You work from where you want to, nobody says anything; People change, many, many months later your are challenged over this.

                    3. You're encouraged to do ad-hoc work which is outside of the initial agreed deliverables.

                    4. A year in someone new tries to become your manager.
                    Last edited by cyborg1337; 23 February 2020, 16:16.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post
                      I'll give you guys a few examples.

                      1. You finish your contract and they put a perm in your place. That's something you would only know right at the very end.
                      You should've known that you looked like a client permie way before that.

                      Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post

                      2. You work from where you want to, nobody says anything; People change, many many months later your are challenged over this.
                      Refuse, which ends in one of two ways.

                      Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post

                      3. You're encouraged to do ad-hoc work which is outside of the agreed initial agreed deliverables.
                      Refuse, which ends in one of two ways.

                      Originally posted by cyborg1337 View Post

                      4. A year in someone new tries to become your manager.
                      Pushback, which ends in one of two ways.

                      You see the pattern here?

                      Comment

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