Could I expense My Business-Related Training Course?

[Wanderer]

1) Contacting HMRC and asking them to confirm in writing whether this would be OK - detailing my argument in writing
2) just expensing the amount, ignoring my accountant and being prepared for both a) explaining my view with HMRC if they question and b) the possible fine.

If you ignore your accountant and HMRC investigate you then they may fine you for deliberately claiming something when your accountant told you not to.

I'd say take option 1 which will give you a definitive answer.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I agree with the chaps - I cannot see that there would be any way that HMR&C would accept that the cost was incurred wholly and exclusively for the sake of the business and that there was no duality of purpose. It certainly can't hurt to write to them but you may have to wait several weeks for a response; I certainly wouldn't expense any of the cost until you have had a written answer.

[SimonMac]

I do wonder with all these questions about can I claim this, can I claim that.

How many peoples records are actually examined closely enough to see detail like this? I bet it is hardly any. Does anyone know of the actual %?

If there is only a 5% chance of them actually looking this close, doesnt it make sense to just put everything you want through and worry about it in the unlikely event they ever look?

I would assume the accountant would refuse to sign off the accounts prior to submitting them to Hector if he knows there are things on there which are wrong?!

[TheFaQQer]

I agree with the chaps - I cannot see that there would be any way that HMR&C would accept that the cost was incurred wholly and exclusively for the sake of the business and that there was no duality of purpose. It certainly can't hurt to write to them but you may have to wait several weeks for a response; I certainly wouldn't expense any of the cost until you have had a written answer.

WSS - it's not something I would expect HMRC to accept as a valid defence.

You could just rent the King's Speech from Blockbusters and be done with it

[Vallah]

I'd argue that the course would be allowable actually.

ITEPA states that work related training is OK when:

Meaning of “work-related training

(1)In this Chapter “work-related training”, in relation to an employee, means a training course or other activity designed to impart, instil, improve or reinforce any knowledge, skills or personal qualities which—.
(a)are likely to prove useful to the employee when performing the duties of the employment or a related employment, or

(b)will qualify or better qualify the employee—.
(i)to perform those duties, or.

I'd therefore argue that these would be "personal qualities" allowing him to do the job better. It's hard to think of any "personal qualities" training courses that wouldn't have a use in personal life, so my advice would be to claim them

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I'd argue that the course would be allowable actually.

ITEPA states that work related training is OK when:

But what you forget is that for an expense to be allowable it has to be wholly and exclusively for the business and there has to be no duality of purpose - this case falls under neither

[Vallah]

But what you forget is that for an expense to be allowable it has to be wholly and exclusively for the business and there has to be no duality of purpose - this case falls under neither

I'm aware of that, but look at the legislation above.

"knowledge, skills or personal qualities which—.
(a)are likely to prove useful to the employee when performing the duties of the employment"

Now skills based training is obviously an easy point. If you go and learn about, say, UK GAAP or Excel, there's no real argument as that's purely work based. Personal qualities though, it's hard to think of any that are "wholly and exlusively". Assertiveness, negotiating, all of them would surely have a use in everyday life and therefore duality of purpose?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I'm aware of that, but look at the legislation above.

"knowledge, skills or personal qualities which—.
(a)are likely to prove useful to the employee when performing the duties of the employment"

Now skills based training is obviously an easy point. If you go and learn about, say, UK GAAP or Excel, there's no real argument as that's purely work based. Personal qualities though, it's hard to think of any that are "wholly and exlusively". Assertiveness, negotiating, all of them would surely have a use in everyday life and therefore duality of purpose?

But the section you have quoted is not the over-riding legislation; you cannot avoid the fact that the lessons in this case have duality of purpose.

[Vallah]

But the section you have quoted is not the over-riding legislation; you cannot avoid the fact that the lessons in this case have duality of purpose.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/480.pdf

See Page 79. I'm certain that if Duke of Edinburgh scheme attendance would qualify, then so would this case.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/480.pdf

See Page 79. I'm certain that if Duke of Edinburgh scheme attendance would qualify, then so would this case.

Why? The Duke of Edinburgh Scheme is a registered charity