IR35 when your contract is with IT company?

[Goggy]

Working in IT for many years i saw a lot of contractors working alongside with perm employees on the same project (mainly when the company itself is in iT business).
It's quite common, but nevertheless it looks like if the contractor was fulfilling the role of perm employee temporarily so that company doesn't need to take an extra person onboard. Therefore it's a strong indication of deemed employment.\
Of course you can have your own laptop, but basically you are bound to work the same working hours and "report" to the same PM that perm people do.( I can't envisage a successful project when everyone works when he wants and doesn't report to anyone.)

What working practices should contractors have so that they are safe from ir 35 perspective?

[TraceRacing]

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread as I'm starting a contract next week where I'll be the PM at an IT company with permies (and contractors) reporting into me...as there are other contractor PM's already on site I'll be observing them as well....

[malvolio]

After 11 years and thousands of pages, you have to ask that question?

There are three contractual areas - Direction, Mutuality and Substitution - that have to be reflected in the actual working practices (OK, subbing is a bit weak these days and probably no longer that significant in practice - unless you do actually send in a subbie).

However Direction doen't mean being there 9 to 5, it means being there 9 to 5 when there is no firm bsuiness reaosn for it. If everyone has to do something, it is not an IR35 indicator.
Similarly, Mutuality means you don't bill for a day when there's no work to be done or expect to be paid just for turning up.

The real, practical defence is to behave as a business, not as an employee. That's nothing to do with what you do, but all to do with how you do it.

But as I said somewhere else recently, join the PCG, do what they tell you and forget IR35 altogether.

[northernladuk]

I would guess from the question that you haven't read the guides yet, or if you have not understood them. There are some links to the right to help you and Google is your friend here. If you read the guides and understand IR35 it will become much clearer how you should be working. Us reeling off a list of things to do/not do will not help you stay out of IR35. It is a mindset and working practice, not a ticklist of things.

[Goggy]

I would guess from the question that you haven't read the guides yet, or if you have not understood them. There are some links to the right to help you and Google is your friend here. If you read the guides and understand IR35 it will become much clearer how you should be working. Us reeling off a list of things to do/not do will not help you stay out of IR35. It is a mindset and working practice, not a ticklist of things.

Unfortunately i did not only read the guides, but also consulted one very well reputed on this forum organisation and basically this is what has driven me to post this question in first instance. Therefore a real advise on the working practices that are applicable to the situation described in the post is very much appreciated. D'u have any?

[malvolio]

Unfortunately i did not only read the guides, but also consulted one very well reputed on this forum organisation and basically this is what has driven me to post this question in first instance. Therefore a real advise on the working practices that are applicable to the situation described in the post is very much appreciated. D'u have any?

IF you've read all the guides and spoken to the PCG guys (possibly including me, you never know...), what do you think we can usefully add? You can't demand some things - I'm not allowed access to the client Intranet, which is good, I have a different timesheet and even a different programme time booking requirement, but those aren't things I dictate to them. Equally I don't ask for leave but tell them when I'm not in, I decide what hours I work which align to useful train times rather than their office hours, I invoice promptly and ensure all the records I keep for my work for both agency and end-client are complete and accurate. I don't do any HR-related stuff of any kind and if I'm managing permies, which I often am, I refuse to do anything that affects their career and will only assess them on their measurable work.

But it is a mindset, a gestalt. The fact you have to ask the question tells me you haven't grasped the essential element of bing a freelance contractor yet. When you do get it, you might then understand how wrong your question really is. So wind the neck in a little and go back to the guides and re-read them (especially the PCG one) in the light of your new understanding of what they are trying to say.