HMRC have decided I'm inside IR35

[centurian]

Thanks much appreciated. As with all professionals there must be a degree of accountability to others, but I was able to set my own hours as long as the work got done. There w as absolutely no MOO present whatsoever.

Be careful not to apply your interpretation of what you think MOO means, or should mean.

MOO is not about working set hours. It's more about the client being able to say - we don't have anything for you to do next week - so don't come in - and you won't get paid for it.

This needs to be written in the contract - and you might have to show in front of a judge that there is a realistic prospect that it would be exercised - and if it has been exercised in the past (and the same doesn't apply to permies), it's an IR35 killer (backed up by binding judgements). If this has actually happened, forget about things like ID badges, this is your silver bullet.

However, not working set hours does also help in respect of D&C - as long as permie's do not get the same "perk".

[NickNick]

Be careful not to apply your interpretation of what you think MOO means, or should mean.

MOO is not about working set hours. It's more about the client being able to say - we don't have anything for you to do next week - so don't come in - and you won't get paid for it.

This needs to be written in the contract - and you might have to show in front of a judge that there is a realistic prospect that it would be exercised - and if it has been exercised in the past (and the same doesn't apply to permies), it's an IR35 killer (backed up by binding judgements). If this has actually happened, forget about things like ID badges, this is your silver bullet.

However, not working set hours does also help in respect of D&C - as long as permie's do not get the same "perk".

I wonder if this is why a lot of clients enforce a longer break on Contractors at Christmas. Last year I, and the other contractors on client site, were booted out fot two weeks at that time, and the permies were expected to work.

[centurian]

I wonder if this is why a lot of clients enforce a longer break on Contractors at Christmas. Last year I, and the other contractors on client site, were booted out fot two weeks at that time, and the permies were expected to work.

I don't think they are doing it for your benefit - often it means exactly what they state - simple cost control.

Which of course validates the lack of MOO even better - it's clearly not a token sham effort.

You have to make sure the wording that comes through is right, but often it's a very big weapon against IR35 - there was a court judgement that went in the contractors favour - and this was one of the factors.

[SpontaneousOrder]

I don't think they are doing it for your benefit - often it means exactly what they state - simple cost control.

Which of course validates the lack of MOO even better - it's clearly not a token sham effort.

You have to make sure the wording that comes through is right, but often it's a very big weapon against IR35 - there was a court judgement that went in the contractors favour - and this was one of the factors.

BAML have started sending contractors home over Christmas because they know people only work half days then disappear to the pub etc.

[NickNick]

BAML have started sending contractors home over Christmas because they know people only work half days then disappear to the pub etc.

I would say that is obviously the real reason it's generally done.

[socialworker]

Probably a social worker.

I remember our regular socialworker poster weighing up IR35 when she started - can't remember her conclusion!

Edit: http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...-out-ir35.html

I consider myself inside, Im a member of a team and get allocated work like everyone else. Ive met people in exact same roles who claim to be outside by virtue of not going to team meetings and telling, not asking their managers when booking leave. Social work managers dont have a clue about ir35 and if interviewed would probably drop you right in it. Tbh my sympathy is limited, my job is essential too and I dont expect tax discounts. Locums get a higher rate to make up for lackof perks.

[Zero Liability]

Without a professional review, there's no point in trying to determine it, as it depends on the contract and working practices. One pillar being absent doesn't mean it is inside.

[JoJoGabor]

I don't buy the argument about IR35 driving people out of the industry, they just have to pay a bit more tax if their business model or working practices doesn't match that of a service provider I hink I worked it out to make a difference of about 8% to my take home money under my circumstances at the time.

[SpontaneousOrder]

I don't buy the argument about IR35 driving people out of the industry, they just have to pay a bit more tax if their business model or working practices doesn't match that of a service provider I hink I worked it out to make a difference of about 8% to my take home money under my circumstances at the time.

Do you think that higher rates would attract more people to go contracting?

[Zero Liability]

I don't buy the argument about IR35 driving people out of the industry, they just have to pay a bit more tax if their business model or working practices doesn't match that of a service provider I hink I worked it out to make a difference of about 8% to my take home money under my circumstances at the time.

I think if it is failing to drive people out, that is because they either are convinced they can pass one of the three tests, if not all, or because HMRC hasn't got anywhere near the resource to police it, due to its miserable cost-efficiency and associated yields.