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webberg
12th June 2015, 08:57
The below is not mine but an extract from a speech by Jolyon Maugham.

I offer it at a view from a rising star in the tax world and one who is starting to represent HMRC in more cases as it may be that he has political ambition in due course.

A couple of asides: first, I do understand that some (possibly many) of you won’t accept there’s any morality in tax. In other words that there’s a perfect alignment between tax law and morality: the fact that something is legal makes it moral. You will appreciate I don’t agree. But perhaps more importantly, I don’t think it’s not a winnable argument with the public. It’s the equivalent of shouting at the telly – it may make you feel better but you should proceed from the premise you will accomplish no more than short term relief.

BrilloPad
12th June 2015, 09:37
The below is not mine but an extract from a speech by Jolyon Maugham.

I offer it at a view from a rising star in the tax world and one who is starting to represent HMRC in more cases as it may be that he has political ambition in due course.

A couple of asides: first, I do understand that some (possibly many) of you won’t accept there’s any morality in tax. In other words that there’s a perfect alignment between tax law and morality: the fact that something is legal makes it moral. You will appreciate I don’t agree. But perhaps more importantly, I don’t think it’s not a winnable argument with the public. It’s the equivalent of shouting at the telly – it may make you feel better but you should proceed from the premise you will accomplish no more than short term relief.

Sounds like he would make a good politician. I have no idea what he said at all.

Maybe he should comments on the morality of retrospective tax legislation? Actually maybe not - I would get more sense asking in general....

webberg
12th June 2015, 10:00
I did make a comment on his blog that morality in taxation is very hard to pin down.

I suggested in particular that it varies by time and the need for the nation to fill the coffers.

Given his political shade, I'm anticipating a debate.

regron
12th June 2015, 10:04
He is the chap who suggested now the election is out of the way and won. Maybe it is time to discuss more realistic settlements. Something which the BG is hoping to do. Would it have any harm pointing the BG and its aims out to him ?

DotasScandal
12th June 2015, 10:07
Sounds like he would make a good politician. I have no idea what he said at all.
Maybe he should comments on the morality of retrospective tax legislation? Actually maybe not - I would get more sense asking in general....

This.
It would be nice to ask about the morality of retrospective legislation.
And the morality of crushing the smallest and weakest while pretending to hit the fat cats.
Etc etc etc

Politicians (actual and wannabees) never address the REAL topics.

BrilloPad
12th June 2015, 10:11
This.
It would be nice to ask about the morality of retrospective legislation.
And the morality of crushing the smallest and weakest while pretending to hit the fat cats.
Etc etc etc

Politicians (actual and wannabees) never address the REAL topics.

I just found the blog of posted a question. I bet my post will not eve get up there. Let alone a response.

I could post up what I think would get a response - but I don't want a permaban. Again....

webberg
12th June 2015, 10:19
He is the chap who suggested now the election is out of the way and won. Maybe it is time to discuss more realistic settlements. Something which the BG is hoping to do. Would it have any harm pointing the BG and its aims out to him ?

Done

webberg
12th June 2015, 10:38
I see that the BP comment has been published and I'm waiting for Jolyon to reply which I'm sure he will.

BrilloPad
12th June 2015, 10:48
I see that the BP comment has been published and I'm waiting for Jolyon to reply which I'm sure he will.

:emb

I feel guilty now for suggesting otherwise! Having had HMRC lie to us, and politicians turn a blind eye(even my local MP who was on the Labour Finance committee that passed S58!) I hope my faith in humanity can be restored.

cojak
12th June 2015, 10:52
Another interesting blog from Jolyon here. http://waitingfortax.com/2014/08/07/weak-transmission-mechanisms-and-boys-who-wont-say-no/

An interesting article and debate of the blog here. Tax Research UK » Tackling ‘the boys’ (http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2014/08/08/tackling-the-boys/)

And what's more, I agree with him.

webberg
12th June 2015, 10:58
An interesting article and debate of the blog here. Tax Research UK » Tackling ‘the boys’ (http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2014/08/08/tackling-the-boys/)

This is an interesting piece but a word of warning.

Mr Murphy is regarded by many in the tax profession as being an outlier in terms of his views.

He espouses a "fair" tax policy in which pretty much every misdemeanour is punished with little grading for the severity of the alleged offence.

His use of statistics to prove his point has come in for criticism from many sources, including HMRC.

By all means read his material, nobody has a monopoly on the truth, but be aware that he might represent a view that is not currently mainstream.

squirrel
12th June 2015, 10:59
The below is not mine but an extract from a speech by Jolyon Maugham.

"But perhaps more importantly, I don’t think it’s not a winnable argument with the public."

This is the same public that regularly do deals for cash to get a better price / evade tax. Why hasn't there been more made of this by the politicians? Oh yes, that's right because there are too many people that do that cash in hand stuff and they'd lose too many votes...

cojak
12th June 2015, 11:12
This is an interesting piece but a word of warning.

Mr Murphy is regarded by many in the tax profession as being an outlier in terms of his views.

He espouses a "fair" tax policy in which pretty much every misdemeanour is punished with little grading for the severity of the alleged offence.

His use of statistics to prove his point has come in for criticism from many sources, including HMRC.

By all means read his material, nobody has a monopoly on the truth, but be aware that he might represent a view that is not currently mainstream.

I was actually thinking of the comments below the article (to which Jolyon has contributed), but quite right for pointing this out, thank you webberg.