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EternalOptimist
16th June 2015, 08:55
It was great fun poking the looney left over the 'wrongskin' idea. Even if some of it was a parody, the fact that people pass themselves off as belonging to a different racial group, for financial gain, is interesting.
This woman (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/14/became-a-black-woman-spokane-rachel-dolezal-black-girl), has just resigned, after pretending to be African American, native American, born in a tepee, used to get her food by hunting with a bow and arrow, etc, etc. She is actually born of well off white parents.

The point is that the Americans have a phrase for this, a meme, because this type of thing is so common. Any oldies here will remember the thousands of yanks who were abducted by aliens, got cancer that magically cured itsef, survived the twin towers, etc, etc.
Now I know we get a bit of that over here, In the military we were well used to 'Walts'. Walter Mitty characters who were always in the SAS or busy flying Tornados back from Italy with a bowl of spaghetti on their laps.
The difference is in the scale.
Remember kids, passing don't mean what you think it means.




:rolleyes:

SimonMac
16th June 2015, 09:22
It was great fun poking the looney left over the 'wrongskin' idea. Even if some of it was a parody, the fact that people pass themselves off as belonging to a different racial group, for financial gain, is interesting.
This woman (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/14/became-a-black-woman-spokane-rachel-dolezal-black-girl), has just resigned, after pretending to be African American, native American, born in a tepee, used to get her food by hunting with a bow and arrow, etc, etc. She is actually born of well off white parents.

The point is that the Americans have a phrase for this, a meme, because this type of thing is so common. Any oldies here will remember the thousands of yanks who were abducted by aliens, got cancer that magically cured itsef, survived the twin towers, etc, etc.
Now I know we get a bit of that over here, In the military we were well used to 'MF's'. Walter Mitty characters who were always in the SAS or busy flying Tornados back from Italy with a bowl of spaghetti on their laps.
The difference is in the scale.
Remember kids, passing don't mean what you think it means.




:rolleyes:

FTFY

Pondlife
16th June 2015, 09:32
Are you really an Eternal Optimist? hmmm, really?

:tongue

EternalOptimist
16th June 2015, 09:39
Are you really an Eternal Optimist? hmmm, really?

:tongue

My parents think so. I remember my dad, the first time I pulled that England shirt on, 'you get out there son, you can have my nobel laureate if you score'

BrilloPad
16th June 2015, 10:36
My parents think so. I remember my dad, the first time I pulled that England shirt on, 'you get out there son, you can have my nobel laureate if you score'

Was that on your trip to Conway Castle? :rolleyes:

pjclarke
16th June 2015, 11:10
Are you really an Eternal Optimist? hmmm, really?

:tongue

Eternal Fantasist.

I'm not up to speed on this one, its complex; but I'm fairly sure there were no bows and arrows involved.

EternalOptimist
16th June 2015, 11:29
but I'm fairly sure there were no bows and arrows involved.


:rollin:
it's not like you to be totally wrong, is it ?

'Dolezal has said she was born and lived in a teepee, recounting hunting their food with bow and arrow.[18] Her mother said she and her husband briefly lived in a teepee in 1974, three years before their daughter was born, and called the claims "totally false"'


we are talking fauxcahontas :rollin:

pjclarke
16th June 2015, 11:32
Wow.

I withdraw my remark and apologise fulsomely. She is nuts, even if the teepee bit seems to be based in fact ....

EternalOptimist
16th June 2015, 11:35
Wow.

I withdraw my remark and apologise fulsomely. She is nuts.


indeed, she is nuts.

but it seems to be on a bigger scale in the US, hence the post.
anyone any experiences of fantasists ?

I knew a bloke who thought he was Bruce Lee, till he met some blokes who thought he wasn't

EternalOptimist
16th June 2015, 11:36
Wow.

I withdraw my remark and apologise fulsomely. She is nuts, even if the teepee bit seems to be based in fact ....


her parents spent three days in a tepee, three years before she was born

pjclarke
16th June 2015, 11:53
her parents spent three days in a tepee, three years before she was born

Or maybe she's a model of sanity and the parents, who it seems, she is now suing, are nuts? Her early home life seems to have been a tad erm, unconventional.


Doležal has no contact today with her mother or stepfather due to a series of events that still haunt her thoughts today. Doležal and her siblings were physically abused by her mother and stepfather. “They would punish us by skin complexion,”

EternalOptimist
16th June 2015, 11:59
Don't mistake permutising for logical rational thought.
use your judgement

EternalOptimist
16th June 2015, 12:02
bruce lee got walloped in a night club

pjclarke
16th June 2015, 14:11
Don't mistake permutising for logical rational thought.
use your judgement

Soon as I find out what that made up word means I will stop doing it.


Halford Fairchild, a professor of psychology and Africana studies at Pitzer College and the former president of the Association of Black Psychologists, said that Dolezal’s behavior is the opposite of passing.

“To ‘pass’ as black is comparatively unheard of,” Fairchild said in an email. “But it illustrates a certain ‘insanity’ when it comes to issues of ‘race’ in American life and culture.”

He noted that the country’s first black president has a caucasian mother and that some black people, like supreme court justice Clarence Thomas, “might be black as night but eschew any identification with the black community”.

This is because race is tied to identity politics and not biology.

“Rachel Dolezal is black because she identifies as black,” he said. “Her identity was authentic, as far as I could tell.”

Rachel Dolezal identifying as African American is highly unusual, experts say | US news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/13/rachel-dolezal-african-american-naacp-spokane)

DimPrawn
16th June 2015, 14:25
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4c/4c00d2091508a5bf540efdae5751e0b6010d2ef4caffe6ed25 19f99322df9438.jpg

original PM
16th June 2015, 18:34
Bet if she went to la south Central and started calling everyone Monica she would find out how black she was :|

SueEllen
16th June 2015, 19:37
Bet if she went to la south Central and started calling everyone Monica she would find out how black she was :|

She just needs to go to Staines on Thames.....

pjclarke
16th June 2015, 20:15
Of course, the serious point she is making, and being utterly missed, is that ethnic groupings such as 'Black', 'African American' are no more than social constructs; genetically speaking, there is no such thing as 'race'.


Sorry, UKIP.

SueEllen
16th June 2015, 20:28
Of course, the serious point she is making, and being utterly missed, is that ethnic groupings such as 'Black', 'African American' are no more than social constructs; genetically speaking, there is no such thing as 'race'.


Sorry, UKIP.

I find it funny that in America she says she is "Black" not "African American", so clearly she knows the difference between the two identity constructs.

GlenW
17th June 2015, 08:14
Of course, the serious point she is making, and being utterly missed, is that ethnic groupings such as 'Black', 'African American' are no more than social constructs; genetically speaking, there is no such thing as 'race'.


Sorry, UKIP.
If it has nothing to do with genetics, why are black people black then?

Bunk
17th June 2015, 08:41
It's an odd one. It seems to me there are two issues here. One, she is identifying as black when she may not be, and two, she seems to be a fantasist. The second one is more straightforward, she's clearly made up a history to suit her and to try and reinforce the first one. I saw a program the other night about a guy called Christian Gerhardsreiter (I think) who is on trial for murder in America. He was a German immigrant who invented personas for himself, at one point claiming he was Clarke Rockefeller, of the Rockefeller family. A real life Tom Ripley.

The first issue is trickier. At first I dismissed it, saying she's clearly white, what a loon etc. But who decides she's too white to be black? At what point does someone become black? And if you switch it around, saying someone is too dark skinned to be white, you start sounding like a BNP member. I don't think this applies to her, but it's not as clear cut as I thought it was.

Gumbo Robot
17th June 2015, 09:10
At what point does someone become black?

When the Guardian says so. Next...

mudskipper
17th June 2015, 12:11
The first issue is trickier. At first I dismissed it, saying she's clearly white, what a loon etc. But who decides she's too white to be black? At what point does someone become black? And if you switch it around, saying someone is too dark skinned to be white, you start sounding like a BNP member. I don't think this applies to her, but it's not as clear cut as I thought it was.

Check out Adrian Piper's Cornered (1988)

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/adrian-piper-cornered/ (you can find the actual piece on Youtube)

It's worth a watch.

In 2012, she retired from being black. :)
APRAF Berlin: Biography (http://www.adrianpiper.com/biography.shtml)

GlenW
17th June 2015, 12:17
In 2012, she retired from being black. :)
APRAF Berlin: Biography (http://www.adrianpiper.com/biography.shtml)
I stopped after, "Adrian Margaret Smith Piper (b. 1948) is a first-generation Conceptual artist and analytic philosopher." Waffly bollocks.

mudskipper
17th June 2015, 12:20
I stopped after, "Adrian Margaret Smith Piper (b. 1948) is a first-generation Conceptual artist and analytic philosopher." Waffly bollocks.

Your loss, I guess.

EternalOptimist
17th June 2015, 23:20
In todays indie, she (Dolezal) apparently (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/rachel-dolezal-boycotted-exodus-gods-and-kings-because-it-cast-white-actors-as-africans-10325373.html) called for a boycott of a film, because white actors played black roles


She described the film as "highly offensive", and accused it of "miseducation" (sic), "misrepresentation" and "robbing and shredding ancestry and history".

mudskipper
18th June 2015, 05:34
In todays indie, she (Dolezal) apparently (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/rachel-dolezal-boycotted-exodus-gods-and-kings-because-it-cast-white-actors-as-africans-10325373.html) called for a boycott of a film, because white actors played black roles


She described the film as "highly offensive", and accused it of "miseducation" (sic), "misrepresentation" and "robbing and shredding ancestry and history".

I felt like that about Renée Zellweger playing Bridget Jones.