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webberg
23rd June 2015, 15:21
You probably don't need reminding.

BIG GROUP recommends that you register an interest in the process.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/387786/do3.pdf

You need to complete the form and email to the address supplied before midnight Tuesday 30th June.

Be warned that the form is interactive but sometimes they work only when opened in Internet Explorer and Chrome is a non starter.

We've got some rules to follow (name that song for 2 pointless points).

DO NOT include inaccurate values.
If you genuinely don't have the values, estimate them BUT say so
If your dates are genuinely hazy, estimate them and say so
Do NOT volunteer any information you are not required to nor think relevant

BIG GROUP members can ask questions via the forum.

bstar1
23rd June 2015, 15:46
You probably don't need reminding.

BIG GROUP recommends that you register an interest in the process.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/387786/do3.pdf

You need to complete the form and email to the address supplied before midnight Tuesday 30th June.

Be warned that the form is interactive but sometimes they work only when opened in Internet Explorer and Chrome is a non starter.

We've got some rules to follow (name that song for 2 pointless points).

DO NOT include inaccurate values.
If you genuinely don't have the values, estimate them BUT say so
If your dates are genuinely hazy, estimate them and say so
Do NOT volunteer any information you are not required to nor think relevant

BIG GROUP members can ask questions via the forum.

what would be the point of this if you pay apn and estimate it to be the same as CLSO but without the interest

DotasScandal
23rd June 2015, 15:50
what would be the point of this if you pay apn and estimate it to be the same as CLSO but without the interest

To show that you have been engaging with HMRC with a view of settling (shall they try to whack you with penalties somewhere down the road).

BONUS: gives them more work and ties up their resources.

bluemonkey71
23rd June 2015, 17:35
They have drafted in a lot of resources.

savanna
23rd June 2015, 17:52
Is it still worth registering interest in the CLSO if I am already in JR for APN with scheme provider? Wouldnt HMRC just see this as 'throwing in the towel' early?
Just trying to decide if it's worth having 2 prongs of attack simultaneously without negatively affecting each other ie. APN JR and Registering CLSO

DotasScandal
23rd June 2015, 19:25
They have drafted in a lot of resources.

Let them work for their money.

regron
23rd June 2015, 19:44
Let them work for their money.

THIS

webberg
23rd June 2015, 21:51
what would be the point of this if you pay apn and estimate it to be the same as CLSO but without the interest

Sigh.

Because the APN IS NOT SETTLEMENT.

The APN is a payment on account of the final liability that you still have to calculate, appeal, argue over, agree.

The CLSO says it's a settlement, which it is of sorts.

It's not final and HMRC reserve for themselves various matters and try to include closed years.

It's entirely possible that the CLSO calculation will be wrong in your favour. It shows engagement. It will create an audit trail. You are NOT obliged to take the settlement.

webberg
23rd June 2015, 21:53
Is it still worth registering interest in the CLSO if I am already in JR for APN with scheme provider? Wouldnt HMRC just see this as 'throwing in the towel' early?
Just trying to decide if it's worth having 2 prongs of attack simultaneously without negatively affecting each other ie. APN JR and Registering CLSO

Yes - APN is not connected in any way, shape or form with CLSO.

No.

The JR on the APN and the settlement ARE NOT CONNECTED

LandRover
23rd June 2015, 23:49
I have tried to look this up on HMRC website but no clear guidelines.

Is the CLSO for ALL years you were the user of schemes be Dotas and Non-Dotas, or is the CLSO specifically for DoTAS tax years up to 2010-11?

regron
24th June 2015, 06:32
I have tried to look this up on HMRC website but no clear guidelines.

Is the CLSO for ALL years you were the user of schemes be Dotas and Non-Dotas, or is the CLSO specifically for DoTAS tax years up to 2010-11?

Up to 2011 only

bstar1
24th June 2015, 08:20
Yes - APN is not connected in any way, shape or form with CLSO.

No.

The JR on the APN and the settlement ARE NOT CONNECTED

I still believe I have done nothing illegal !, would this not now assume I'm now entertaining I've done something illegal ?

Dylan
24th June 2015, 10:42
I have tried to look this up on HMRC website but no clear guidelines.

Is the CLSO for ALL years you were the user of schemes be Dotas and Non-Dotas, or is the CLSO specifically for DoTAS tax years up to 2010-11?

All be all pre 10/11 years. And they also seem to be including years for which there was no enquiry or discovery assessment open :winker:

webberg
24th June 2015, 10:55
I still believe I have done nothing illegal !, would this not now assume I'm now entertaining I've done something illegal ?

For the very last time I will go over the legal/illegal argument.

You have an arrangement that in legal form says you have received a loan.

HMRC's argument is that the FACTS and CONTEXT applying to that legal form are such that any reasonable person would conclude it was not a loan but a payment of income. HMRC contend that the SUBSTANCE of the transaction should outweigh the FORM.

If they persuade a judge that this is the case, then the legal form of the loan agreement will be put aside for income tax purposes and instead you will be deemed to have received income.

You have done nothing illegal but the judge prefers to give greater weight to fact and context for income tax purposes.

They may find the opposite for IHT purposes.

So, my advice to you is, FORGET legal/illegal. It's a red herring and is just a minor part of the argument over whatever arrangement you used.

If you cling to the "everything I've done is legal and HMRC can whistle for their money", and ignore all other potential routes to finding an answer, my judgement is that eventually a court will decide whether to apply form over substance or vice versa.

If they decide the former, you have made a great call.

If they decide the latter and you have no other option, you will pay tax, interest and penalty on the alleged "loan".

At the moment, my OPINION - others are available - is that HMRC is perhaps 5 years from a decision. That is a window you should be using to prepare and generate options for yourself.

jonnieboy
24th June 2015, 11:12
Just to make sure I'm 100% on this..

The CLSO does not apply to schemes after 2011 regardless of whether they were DOTAS or not, right?

DonkeyRhubarb
24th June 2015, 11:19
If they decide the latter and you have no other option, you will pay tax, interest and penalty on the alleged "loan".


I would question penalties. That suggests something of a fraudulent nature.

People who joined these schemes acted on professional advice. HMRC may scaremonger about penalties but I don't see it myself.

DotasScandal
24th June 2015, 11:20
I have tried to look this up on HMRC website but no clear guidelines.

Is the CLSO for ALL years you were the user of schemes be Dotas and Non-Dotas, or is the CLSO specifically for DoTAS tax years up to 2010-11?

Up to 2011 only.

Laxmi
24th June 2015, 12:07
Would this not be shooting ourselves in the foot?
As for Penalties they can't charge that can they?
I was with Montpelier and they always insisted that
penalties would not be charges. After all we declared
everything to hmrc.
Also, as hmrc cannot be trusted, will the change the goalposts
again after people sign up?
The Rangers case is still on going and HMRC have lost twice.
Is this a ploy for them to get more money from us quickly as they
could loose again?

Thanks.

DotasScandal
24th June 2015, 12:41
Also, as hmrc cannot be trusted, will the change the goalposts
again after people sign up?

Mmm... I think you already know the answer to this one, don't you? :rolleyes:

webberg
24th June 2015, 16:35
Would this not be shooting ourselves in the foot?
As for Penalties they can't charge that can they?
I was with Montpelier and they always insisted that
penalties would not be charges. After all we declared
everything to hmrc.
Also, as hmrc cannot be trusted, will the change the goalposts
again after people sign up?
The Rangers case is still on going and HMRC have lost twice.
Is this a ploy for them to get more money from us quickly as they
could loose again?

Thanks.

Register for the CLSO. It's not an admission of anything other than an interest in engaging productively with HMRC.

With respect to Montpelier, it is not for them to be the arbiter of penalties. A penalty could be applied by HMRC, appealed against and finally decided by a judge. Montpelier's opinion, mine or anybody else's is not relevant.

I was making the point that HMRC will threaten penalties but as has been pointed out, there are defences. Whether they are waterproof defences remains to be seen.

I would say that declaring numbers etc to HMRC is not in itself an exemption from penalty. A penalty is based on behaviours. If you deliberately concealed information about a scheme that is a behaviour that WILL be punished. If you have declared everything but HMRC can convince a judge that you have been "careless" by even entering a known tax avoidance scheme, then you could see a charge.

It's not a ploy. A settlement offer whilst litigation is pending is a tried and trusted route used by HMRC to a) collect money, b) reduce resource cost, c) splinter fighting groups, d) discourage further argument.

Consider your options here.

1. Register an interest in settling, get a number and consider it.
2. If the number is lower than you thought, you might take it.
3. If it's not, then what?
4. You litigate = long time, expensive, complex and needs to be organised. Who will organise?
5. You seek a settlement = long time (not as long as 4), less expensive, being organised

DOING NOTHING IS NOT AN OPTION.

Do nothing and you will have applied to your circumstances, the result of a litigation you cannot influence or if there is no organised litigation group, you will have to accept the HMRC interpretation of your position.

Registering for the CLSO costs nothing = DO IT.

LandRover
24th June 2015, 18:05
A penalty is based on behaviours. If you deliberately concealed information about a scheme that is a behaviour that WILL be punished. If you have declared everything but HMRC can convince a judge that you have been "careless" by even entering a known tax avoidance scheme, then you could see a charge.


To be honest I am uncomfortable with registering for CLSO. Surely the scheme providers, if still around, have all the details necessary. You seem to be implying its our sole responsibility to supply all the necessary information around figures, when HMRC could take the figures from the scheme providers. If those figures entered are wrong by me, then won't that be deemed as a "careless" event? Can't we add TBC (To Be Confirmed) on the form?

MercladUK
24th June 2015, 18:52
For the very last time I will go over the legal/illegal argument.

You have an arrangement that in legal form says you have received a loan.

HMRC's argument is that the FACTS and CONTEXT applying to that legal form are such that any reasonable person would conclude it was not a loan but a payment of income. HMRC contend that the SUBSTANCE of the transaction should outweigh the FORM.

If they persuade a judge that this is the case, then the legal form of the loan agreement will be put aside for income tax purposes and instead you will be deemed to have received income.

You have done nothing illegal but the judge prefers to give greater weight to fact and context for income tax purposes.

They may find the opposite for IHT purposes.

So, my advice to you is, FORGET legal/illegal. It's a red herring and is just a minor part of the argument over whatever arrangement you used.

If you cling to the "everything I've done is legal and HMRC can whistle for their money", and ignore all other potential routes to finding an answer, my judgement is that eventually a court will decide whether to apply form over substance or vice versa.

If they decide the former, you have made a great call.

If they decide the latter and you have no other option, you will pay tax, interest and penalty on the alleged "loan".

At the moment, my OPINION - others are available - is that HMRC is perhaps 5 years from a decision. That is a window you should be using to prepare and generate options for yourself.


Webberg I know you are getting frustrated with this specific question but the above could also be queried against dividends drawn from a limited company? Or Starbucks paying tax in a more friendlier country.

Both are used to disguise the real outcome

InNZ
24th June 2015, 21:26
So far, I have not received an APN. I know that colleagues who were in the (Edge) scheme at the same time have either received their APN, or the notice of imminent arrival of an APN and this was several weeks ago.

Is there a chance that HMRC are not going to send one, perhaps because I emigrated to NZ in 2005 and the amount is not (comparatively) that big? I know the postal service between UK & NZ can be slow, but I reckon that if mine was sent at the same time as my colleagues, I would have got it by now.

I'm just worried that sending in a CLSO request will wake up the sleeping dog.

bstar1
24th June 2015, 21:29
So far, I have not received an APN. I know that colleagues who were in the (Edge) scheme at the same time have either received their APN, or the notice of imminent arrival of an APN and this was several weeks ago.

Is there a chance that HMRC are not going to send one, perhaps because I emigrated to NZ in 2005 and the amount is not (comparatively) that big? I know the postal service between UK & NZ can be slow, but I reckon that if mine was sent at the same time as my colleagues, I would have got it by now.

I'm just worried that sending in a CLSO request will wake up the sleeping dog.

If I were you..."let sleeping dogs lie"

DotasScandal
24th June 2015, 21:52
Is there a chance that HMRC are not going to send one, perhaps because I emigrated to NZ in 2005 and the amount is not (comparatively) that big? I know the postal service between UK & NZ can be slow, but I reckon that if mine was sent at the same time as my colleagues, I would have got it by now.

Wishful thinking IMO.
They seem to be sending APNs out not by scheme, but by batches...a few members of each scheme at a time (it creates uncertainty and splinters resistance).

webberg
24th June 2015, 23:02
So far, I have not received an APN. I know that colleagues who were in the (Edge) scheme at the same time have either received their APN, or the notice of imminent arrival of an APN and this was several weeks ago.

Is there a chance that HMRC are not going to send one, perhaps because I emigrated to NZ in 2005 and the amount is not (comparatively) that big? I know the postal service between UK & NZ can be slow, but I reckon that if mine was sent at the same time as my colleagues, I would have got it by now.

I'm just worried that sending in a CLSO request will wake up the sleeping dog.

To the best of my knowledge there is no connection between CLSO and APN.

Different people in different teams doing different things.

webberg
24th June 2015, 23:04
Webberg I know you are getting frustrated with this specific question but the above could also be queried against dividends drawn from a limited company? Or Starbucks paying tax in a more friendlier country.

Both are used to disguise the real outcome

Dividends no, Starbucks yes but the rules for the latter are fearsomely complicated.

When I was working in a major bank, we had 12 people doing nothing except cross border stuff and the rules are certainly not easier now.

You also forget that Gideon Osbourne has relaxed all the corporate rules to encourage the behaviour of Starbucks and their kin.

webberg
24th June 2015, 23:08
To be honest I am uncomfortable with registering for CLSO. Surely the scheme providers, if still around, have all the details necessary. You seem to be implying its our sole responsibility to supply all the necessary information around figures, when HMRC could take the figures from the scheme providers. If those figures entered are wrong by me, then won't that be deemed as a "careless" event? Can't we add TBC (To Be Confirmed) on the form?

IT is YOUR responsibility.

Reliance upon another to supply information is the antithesis of SELF ASSESSMENT.

HMRC will use other sources to verify numbers, but the responsibility is very much yours.

LandRover
24th June 2015, 23:38
IT is YOUR responsibility.

Reliance upon another to supply information is the antithesis of SELF ASSESSMENT.

HMRC will use other sources to verify numbers, but the responsibility is very much yours.

Okay, so if I enter values that later on are found to be much different to what the scheme provider supplied to HMRC then is that a careless act?

What are the margins of error to be deemed careless? 10% 20%...

I am struggling to understand what the CLSO will achieve when HMRC have absolutely no attitude to negotiating a settlement. I appreciate your knowledge is far greater than mine in dealing with HMRC, so are you stating there is a positive to engaging by the CLSO when ultimately there is no way I would accept the CLSO when I have a possibility, however small, of recouping my APN payment?

pimpernell
25th June 2015, 04:27
Hi

Can someone advise pleas (Weberg??).

I engaged with hmrc via CLSO but have not yet filled in the D03. I asked HMRC specifically in regard to anCOP8 enquiry and would like to restrict what I declare on the DO3 to those tax years - ie put the COP8 enquiry reference on the form. Is that a legit approach?

I am talking about 2007-2008 tax year. I also received a COP8 for the previous tax year but was in the scheme prior to 2004 which was non DOTAS.

So what I'd be happy doing is declaring for the tax years which have open enquiry but not the others.

I don't have the numbers for the non open tax years in any case but do for the open tax years.

I can't help feel that hmrc will just use these numbers as an admission of guilt.

neil99
25th June 2015, 06:29
Hi

Can someone advise pleas (Weberg??).


So what I'd be happy doing is declaring for the tax years which have open enquiry but not the others.

I don't have the numbers for the non open tax years in any case but do for the open tax years.

I can't help feel that hmrc will just use these numbers as an admission of guilt.

I think not. But we are in uncharted waters here!

I've engaged with HMRC with the CLSO. From what I can work out they have only opened an enquiry for one year of one scheme and not two years of another scheme.

When I asked for a revised calculation including IHT (I said I'd be planning to get my loans written off via the trustees) then they quoted a calculation that included the two non-open (?) years for IHT.

They have all the numbers from me now. I want to get the IHT calculation broken down as I believe it's incorrect.

Webberg and others have suggested it's very sensible to engage with the settlement team as it shows good will on my part and a willingness to reach a settlement. This may become useful if the scheme provider looses in court and the question of penalties are included.

I've not had APNs for the two presumably non-open years. Not are they mentioned except in the IHT calculations in my CLSO.

The problem with the CLSO is that there is no statement of finality for the non-open years therefore settlement is not full and final for all three years I was involved in two (identical) schemes. If HMRC had took a clear position on this then the CLSO would be more attractive.

parallelmonogamist
25th June 2015, 07:21
webberg, thanks again for the info.

A number of us have registered an interest by email response, letter and/or phone call to the number on the CLSO letter. None of these have involved providing figures or filling in the form.

Are you saying this is not enough, that we should provide figures and submit this form particularly, or is it enough to have spoken/emailed/mailed them?

DonkeyRhubarb
25th June 2015, 07:55
The CLSO is another bodge job by HMRC.

If they'd made it a simple case of paying 100% of the income tax & interest, a lot more people would have taken up the offer.

Instead of which they screw it up with IHT. If they had half an ounce of common sense and pragmatism they would have forgone the IHT on the basis that they were treating the loans as taxable income, not genuine loans.

Muppets.

Laxmi
25th June 2015, 11:07
Register for the CLSO. It's not an admission of anything other than an interest in engaging productively with HMRC.

With respect to Montpelier, it is not for them to be the arbiter of penalties. A penalty could be applied by HMRC, appealed against and finally decided by a judge. Montpelier's opinion, mine or anybody else's is not relevant.

I was making the point that HMRC will threaten penalties but as has been pointed out, there are defences. Whether they are waterproof defences remains to be seen.

I would say that declaring numbers etc to HMRC is not in itself an exemption from penalty. A penalty is based on behaviours. If you deliberately concealed information about a scheme that is a behaviour that WILL be punished. If you have declared everything but HMRC can convince a judge that you have been "careless" by even entering a known tax avoidance scheme, then you could see a charge.

It's not a ploy. A settlement offer whilst litigation is pending is a tried and trusted route used by HMRC to a) collect money, b) reduce resource cost, c) splinter fighting groups, d) discourage further argument.

Consider your options here.

1. Register an interest in settling, get a number and consider it.
2. If the number is lower than you thought, you might take it.
3. If it's not, then what?
4. You litigate = long time, expensive, complex and needs to be organised. Who will organise?
5. You seek a settlement = long time (not as long as 4), less expensive, being organised

DOING NOTHING IS NOT AN OPTION.

Do nothing and you will have applied to your circumstances, the result of a litigation you cannot influence or if there is no organised litigation group, you will have to accept the HMRC interpretation of your position.

Registering for the CLSO costs nothing = DO IT.

Thanks for the response.
I wrote to Monty and they informed me that this desn;t apply as it's for those on EBT as opposed to me who was self employed...is this correct?

Thanks again

Laxmi
25th June 2015, 11:14
Thanks for the response.
I wrote to Monty and they informed me that this desn;t apply as it's for those on EBT as opposed to me who was self employed...is this correct?

Thanks again

Also, I have not received an APN for this.

Cerbera
25th June 2015, 12:39
Hi folks,

The email account that i used when with edge was closed a very long time ago. Any ideas where i'd get the loan amounts to state on the CLSO?

Any info much appreciated.

parallelmonogamist
25th June 2015, 12:50
I asked the Nationwide for my old statements. To my pleasant surprise, they had them all the way back to 2006.

webberg
25th June 2015, 17:30
Sorry chaps - been on the road or the phone most of the day and will be back here later this evening (10ish)

webberg
25th June 2015, 20:22
Okay, so if I enter values that later on are found to be much different to what the scheme provider supplied to HMRC then is that a careless act?

What are the margins of error to be deemed careless? 10% 20%...

I am struggling to understand what the CLSO will achieve when HMRC have absolutely no attitude to negotiating a settlement. I appreciate your knowledge is far greater than mine in dealing with HMRC, so are you stating there is a positive to engaging by the CLSO when ultimately there is no way I would accept the CLSO when I have a possibility, however small, of recouping my APN payment?

You are obliged to enter numbers to the best of your knowledge and belief. HMRC will use third part sources to verify or challenge them.

If you use an estimate, that's perfectly legitimate as long as you advise that is the case.

Careless is not under or over estimating but missing numbers off completely.

Registering for the CLSO achieves, a) a positive audit trail of engagement should HMRC think about penalty, b) provide an opportunity for HMRC to get it wrong, c) force HMRC to think about missing open years, d) use their resources, e) create a legitimate expectation amongst non settlors.

I think much more should be directed via the BG forum please.

webberg
25th June 2015, 20:24
Hi

Can someone advise pleas (Weberg??).

I engaged with hmrc via CLSO but have not yet filled in the D03. I asked HMRC specifically in regard to anCOP8 enquiry and would like to restrict what I declare on the DO3 to those tax years - ie put the COP8 enquiry reference on the form. Is that a legit approach?

I am talking about 2007-2008 tax year. I also received a COP8 for the previous tax year but was in the scheme prior to 2004 which was non DOTAS.

So what I'd be happy doing is declaring for the tax years which have open enquiry but not the others.

I don't have the numbers for the non open tax years in any case but do for the open tax years.

I can't help feel that hmrc will just use these numbers as an admission of guilt.

Aside from noting that the last point is completely wrong, I think I'd rather not answer the others in public.

Either PM or go to BG please

webberg
25th June 2015, 20:26
webberg, thanks again for the info.

A number of us have registered an interest by email response, letter and/or phone call to the number on the CLSO letter. None of these have involved providing figures or filling in the form.

Are you saying this is not enough, that we should provide figures and submit this form particularly, or is it enough to have spoken/emailed/mailed them?

As noted, HMRC are consistent in their inconsistency.

Supply what is asked for via your chosen method.

Jes1
26th June 2015, 10:01
Called HMRC about a month ago to ask for details on how to pay over 2 years.
Was told the person dealing with my case is away for a week and I will be sent further information in the post.
2 weeks later, nothing received.
Sent them a letter by recorded delivery last week asking for the further information and nothing received yet with the deadline a few days away.
The CLSO clearly states not to sign and return the documents if I want to arrange a payment plan. I've engaged with them and made an effort but because of their incompetence I haven't been able to settle.

I will be joining Big Group.

Laxmi
26th June 2015, 10:08
Re posting question:

I wrote to Monty and they informed me that this doesn't apply as it's for those on EBT as opposed to me who was self employed...is this correct?

Thanks again
Also, I have not received an APN for this.

webberg
26th June 2015, 10:16
Re posting question:

I wrote to Monty and they informed me that this doesn't apply as it's for those on EBT as opposed to me who was self employed...is this correct?

Thanks again
Also, I have not received an APN for this.

What?

There is a difference between a partnership scheme (using and EBT) and a corporate scheme (using an EBT). That difference extends to commercial arrangements and tax analysis but I suspect that HMRC is not sufficiently advanced in the latter to allow a distinction in the CLSO.

I stand to be corrected obviously but I think the CLSO is looking at a much simpler question, i.e. have you received a loan that might be deemed as income.

The source of the loan funds is largely irrelevant as are the hands it has passed through. Money is fungible after all.

My suggestion is that you ask Montpelier - URGENTLY - for more detail.

notsofun
26th June 2015, 14:29
Hey guys,

What happens in the situation when the HRMC have not raised an investigation letter for one of the years in question?

Does sending in an CLSO allow them to open an investigation for the missing years?

I am aware that not everyone got letters for the years in question, some got it for all years, some had years missed. So if you did not get a letter for 09 and send in a CLSO, what happens?

webberg
26th June 2015, 14:40
Hey guys,

What happens in the situation when the HRMC have not raised an investigation letter for one of the years in question?

Does sending in an CLSO allow them to open an investigation for the missing years?

I am aware that not everyone got letters for the years in question, some got it for all years, some had years missed. So if you did not get a letter for 09 and send in a CLSO, what happens?

1. No tax can be charged if the time limits have been missed
2. NO
3. HMRC will certainly attempt to include the closed year. Mention it in your covering note and check the calculations VERY CAREFULLY

DotasScandal
26th June 2015, 14:41
Hey guys,
What happens in the situation when the HRMC have not raised an investigation letter for one of the years in question?
Does sending in an CLSO allow them to open an investigation for the missing years?
I am aware that not everyone got letters for the years in question, some got it for all years, some had years missed. So if you did not get a letter for 09 and send in a CLSO, what happens?

Already answered time and time again on these forums... Anyway:

* If year 09 is not open, it's TOO LATE for HMRC to open in
* It does not mean that they will not TRY and include it in the SO calculations. If they do, it will be up to you to challenge them on why they think they can do so.

notsofun
26th June 2015, 15:05
Thanks for the replies guys.

One last question in relation to the CLSO, i'm going away mid August till end of September, and will not be in the country.

What is the best way to deal with the correspondence and the settlement that the HRMC will send? You have to agree by 30th of September right?

Cheers

webberg
26th June 2015, 16:22
Thanks for the replies guys.

One last question in relation to the CLSO, i'm going away mid August till end of September, and will not be in the country.

What is the best way to deal with the correspondence and the settlement that the HRMC will send? You have to agree by 30th of September right?

Cheers

arrange to have your mail forwarded?

neil99
26th June 2015, 17:22
arrange to have your mail forwarded?

Or ask someone you trust to open HMRC letters, scan and send. You can always call them and email them.

Tgnew
27th June 2015, 22:56
1. No tax can be charged if the time limits have been missed
2. NO
3. HMRC will certainly attempt to include the closed year. Mention it in your covering note and check the calculations VERY CAREFULLY

What happens if you have not received a letter for a given year and have not lodged the a tax return for that year?

efg78
28th June 2015, 13:38
Hi,

I've got a question on how to calculate a CLSO amount please.

I've got the loan amount for the full month of April 2010. Should I pro-rata the April loan amount for the 3 business days between 1st and 5th April 2010?

Many thanks!

TonyTucker
29th June 2015, 07:45
Hi all. What's the best way to contact Hector to register my interest in the CLSO? I know I've left it late but want to cover my bases. Do I just need to email them or is a letter better?

chubacabra
29th June 2015, 07:55
Hi all. What's the best way to contact Hector to register my interest in the CLSO? I know I've left it late but want to cover my bases. Do I just need to email them or is a letter better?

I'd email them and then call them. Confirm with them over the phone that you've registered an interest in settling and make a note of who you spoke to.

The deadline is tomorrow - do not delay!!

webberg
29th June 2015, 09:02
Hi,

I've got a question on how to calculate a CLSO amount please.

I've got the loan amount for the full month of April 2010. Should I pro-rata the April loan amount for the 3 business days between 1st and 5th April 2010?

Many thanks!

It's based on when you became entitled to the money, not when it accrued.

webberg
29th June 2015, 09:03
Hi all. What's the best way to contact Hector to register my interest in the CLSO? I know I've left it late but want to cover my bases. Do I just need to email them or is a letter better?

The DO3 form says you can email it, but call them afterwards to confirm that they have it.

TonyTucker
29th June 2015, 09:14
Just called HMRC to register. They really don't know their ar$e from their elbow. I have had enquiry letters for 3 years (3 diff schemes) but he said I was only showing as having 1 year open.

Asked him to double check this, so they're now going to phone me back once they've taken a look.

webberg
29th June 2015, 10:10
Just called HMRC to register. They really don't know their ar$e from their elbow. I have had enquiry letters for 3 years (3 diff schemes) but he said I was only showing as having 1 year open.

Asked him to double check this, so they're now going to phone me back once they've taken a look.

When he/she does, get it confirmed in writing

fizzy
29th June 2015, 11:12
Does anyone know what percentage of loan amounts received should HMRC now be asking for?

The reason I ask is I have previously had demands for two years but the amounts demanded seem low compared to the loan amounts received. I haven't received an APN yet.

I don't want to give HMRC the amounts if they are just going to recalculate their demands to a higher amount.

Laxmi
29th June 2015, 11:20
Have people on the Montpelier scheme registered for this? I'm not getting any useful information from them.
If we want to email it what is the email address please?

Thanks

flamel
30th June 2015, 07:17
All be all pre 10/11 years. And they also seem to be including years for which there was no enquiry or discovery assessment open :winker:

I read the documentation carefully - it says the CLSO is for "open years". Therefore I only gave them amounts for open years as that is what is said on their letter re CLSO - "The settlement opportunity will be open until 9 January 2015. It will allow eligible individuals to pay tax and interest to resolve open years of use of the arrangements and have certainty". (para 2, page 1)

"The opportunity will allow eligible individuals to settle any open enquiries relating to these arrangements based on the application of the 'Transfer of Assets' legislation." (Section 1, page 1).

In para 15, page 5
"Where we have an open enquiry or assessment for a year, we will need to consider those years in our calculations for settlement".

I hope I've got that right in filling out the D03 - I'm not settling so it's only an engagement thing in any case

webberg
1st July 2015, 09:17
I read the documentation carefully - it says the CLSO is for "open years". Therefore I only gave them amounts for open years as that is what is said on their letter re CLSO - "The settlement opportunity will be open until 9 January 2015. It will allow eligible individuals to pay tax and interest to resolve open years of use of the arrangements and have certainty". (para 2, page 1)

"The opportunity will allow eligible individuals to settle any open enquiries relating to these arrangements based on the application of the 'Transfer of Assets' legislation." (Section 1, page 1).

In para 15, page 5
"Where we have an open enquiry or assessment for a year, we will need to consider those years in our calculations for settlement".

I hope I've got that right in filling out the D03 - I'm not settling so it's only an engagement thing in any case

In my opinion that is entirely correct - include only open years.

When you get the calculation - check it carefully.