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mudskipper
13th August 2015, 20:06
With all the crap that's being thrown at us, we need to get our MPs thinking about this.

So have you written to yours?

You can find him/her here (http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/).

Poll to follow... :)

v8gaz
13th August 2015, 20:10
If not, why the hell not?

TykeMerc
13th August 2015, 20:16
If not, why the hell not?

Because most MP's will take the party or department line and the majority would rather be seen french kissing a dead donkey than get involved supporting people that could be termed as engaged in tax avoidance which is being tarred as evasion.

I guess it's a suggestion that's come from IPSE forums, but without context or at least a suggested outline text I doubt more than 3% of CUK posters would compose something to engage their MP to then get a formulaic response.

mudskipper
13th August 2015, 20:23
Because most MP's will take the party or department line and the majority would rather be seen french kissing a dead donkey than get involved supporting people that could be termed as engaged in tax avoidance which is being tarred as evasion.

I guess it's a suggestion that's come from IPSE forums, but without context or at least a suggested outline text I doubt more than 3% of CUK posters would compose something to engage their MP to then get a formulaic response.

That'll be a no then :)

The danger with an outline text is that it's not personal, and looks like a template.

But it's worth thinking about points that can be included.

3% is better than 0% - it can't do any harm and might even do some good.

mudskipper
13th August 2015, 20:30
But it's worth thinking about points that can be included.



So, T&S -

Nature of contracting - staying in temporary digs away from home, often for several months.
Different end of the country for different gigs.
Different treatment to employees of BigCo - gives BigCo an unfair advantage.

IR35 -

Ambiguous and unclear, and proposal does nothing to help.
Examples in guidance daft
Differences between us and employees of clientCo
Making IR35 test different to employment status law.


General -

Effect on businesses if contractors aren't there to provide flexible resource.


Any more?

DotasScandal
13th August 2015, 20:54
If not, why the hell not?

I'll tell you, cause we went through a similar exercise with the APN crowd: pure, unadulterated laziness. Coupled with hubris and the belief that "someone else's gonna take care of it".

Zero Liability
13th August 2015, 21:53
Any more?

I'd add this:

Why the taxman (http://www.contractoruk.com/news/0011600why_taxmans_new_ir35_figures_just_dont_stac k.html)

Obviously this situation will be even worse now given the new dividend tax. I think this is quite an important issue to look into, because these new measures are making much of the "protected yield", but even the HoL has stated it cannot justify the legislation without these figures being corroborated, which as we know, they have not been. I don't think this is the only argument against the proposed reforms, or indeed the measure itself, but given that this proposal is driven by the Treasury, surely it should be of interest whether the assumed "protected yield" figure has any basis in reality whatsoever.

cojak
14th August 2015, 05:43
Having seen how effective the NTRT campaign was, no I haven't.

centurian
14th August 2015, 06:25
Coded response from Tory MPs - "Well we said we'd crack down on tax avoidance - or did you think we meant all tax avoiders apart from you"

Coded response from Labour MPs - "Serves the Tory voters right, but consider yourself lucky - we'd have slammed you even harder"

Coded response from SNP MPs - "You should have voted Yes - and then everything would have been dunky dory"

Coded response from LibDem MPs - who cares, there's hardly any of them left.

eek
14th August 2015, 06:25
Having seen how effective the NTRT campaign was, no I haven't.

Knowing my mp it would be utterly pointless. So I'll speak to a few others instead

mudskipper
14th August 2015, 07:14
Coded response from Tory MPs - "Well we said we'd crack down on tax avoidance - or did you think we meant all tax avoiders apart from you"

Coded response from Labour MPs - "Serves the Tory voters right, but consider yourself lucky - we'd have slammed you even harder"

Coded response from SNP MPs - "You should have voted Yes - and then everything would have been dunky dory"

Coded response from LibDem MPs - who cares, there's hardly any of them left.

Mine's Tory - I'll report back what he says...

pr1
14th August 2015, 07:38
Mine's labour

to be honest I'm too embarrassed to write complaining that I (probably top 5% of uk earners, probably top 1% of under 30s) can't get tax relief on my travel etc - I expect my MP will be getting pleas from people not being able to afford school clothes for their kids due to reduced benefits - totally separate problem I know, but putting things into perspective, it's not the end of the world if I can't claim my travel - I'll still have food on the table

Totally understand the argument that it's discriminating smallCo's vs bigCo's (and to be honest that's the only bit of the argument I 100% agree with, as nobody here is forced into 300mile commutes, they choose to because they want to charge a decent rate) but I can't see my labour MP giving a fork, I think if labour had their way it would be even worse

(I voted Tory, but only for the feeling of "I did all I could" - my constituency will always be labour)

mudskipper
14th August 2015, 08:05
Mine's labour

to be honest I'm too embarrassed to write complaining that I (probably top 5% of uk earners, probably top 1% of under 30s) can't get tax relief on my travel etc - I expect my MP will be getting pleas from people not being able to afford school clothes for their kids due to reduced benefits - totally separate problem I know, but putting things into perspective, it's not the end of the world if I can't claim my travel - I'll still have food on the table

Totally understand the argument that it's discriminating smallCo's vs bigCo's (and to be honest that's the only bit of the argument I 100% agree with, as nobody here is forced into 300mile commutes, they choose to because they want to charge a decent rate) but I can't see my labour MP giving a fork, I think if labour had their way it would be even worse

(I voted Tory, but only for the feeling of "I did all I could" - my constituency will always be labour)

What about the IR35 discussion document? Do you feel the same way about that?

Eirikur
14th August 2015, 08:09
No, being in David Cameron's constituency is not going to help

malvolio
14th August 2015, 08:22
I suppose you do all realise that if you write to your MP about a matter that is effectively down to a minister, they will have to pass the letter on for an answer. They won't answer it themselves, since they are neither authorised or informed enough to do so. And if they do, then write back and explain why you aren't satisfied with their answer.

So a few thousand forwarded letters from across the country all landing on Gauke's desk will make something of a point. Therefore the more that write to their MPs, the more effective everyone's campaigning will be and the more the point is made that this is a disaster in the making.

One thing is certain; whining impotently on here about ineffective MPs won't achieve anything. We - or rather you - have to use the system

pr1
14th August 2015, 08:26
What about the IR35 discussion document? Do you feel the same way about that?

I'll probably end up doing the same as 99% of contractors

complain on the internet, do nothing productive, wait for some other poor b*****d to go through a full investigation, let ipse deal with it, keep invoicing, pay off as much of my mortgage as I can, keep complaining on the internet

then:
if ipse win, keep going as planned
if ipse lose, go through an umbrella and forever remember the "good times"

blackstreet
14th August 2015, 08:43
Yes i have and below is the response.
---------------
That you very much for contacting me with your concerns about the impact of the 2015 Summer Budget on small businesses and personal service companies. I have written to George Osborne MP, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, enclosing a copy of your letter and asking him to respond to the issues you have raised. I will be in touch with you once I receive a response.

Thanks again for taking the time to get in touch.
----------------

Im not holding my breath, but its amazing how few contractors are aware of the changes, or are bothered. The scale of change is massive and fundamentally changes the viability. I think a number of people are in for a big wake up call.

SueEllen
14th August 2015, 08:52
I haven't written to my Tory MP yet and knowing the kind of things he is into just copying the template won't be enough. I need to modify it. He won't be interested in dividend tax but T&S will and IR35 may get the right response.

DONE

mudskipper
14th August 2015, 09:00
I haven't written to my Tory MP yet and knowing the kind of things he is into just copying the template won't be enough. I need to modify it. He won't be interested in dividend tax but T&S will and IR35 may get the right response.

Yes, I wrote my own letter - I think that's the way to go. I also didn't moan about divvy tax - my concerns are things that treat "PSCs" differently from bigCo.

d000hg
14th August 2015, 09:20
I'm not sure I am ideologically opposed to the changes which we think are coming, or at least not all of them - I don't really know what they all ARE. So at least, some bullet-point list of the issues and an outline of a letter would surely help me and others to write if we feel things are not right, on the topics we are worried about.

e.g: I don't want to pay dividend tax but I struggle to see why I shouldn't, however being forced to pay employer's NI I very much would disagree with.

pr1
14th August 2015, 09:28
I'm not sure I am ideologically opposed to the changes which we think are coming, or at least not all of them - I don't really know what they all ARE. So at least, some bullet-point list of the issues and an outline of a letter would surely help me and others to write if we feel things are not right, on the topics we are worried about.

e.g: I don't want to pay dividend tax but I struggle to see why I shouldn't, however being forced to pay employer's NI I very much would disagree with.

are you an ipse member? they sent out an example/template letter to start you off, you should have got an email on Tuesday

Martin Scroatman
14th August 2015, 09:55
Yes, I wrote my own letter - I think that's the way to go. I also didn't moan about divvy tax - my concerns are things that treat "PSCs" differently from bigCo.

Ok, just so I can be clear about this in my communication with my elected member.

If I'm a permanent employee of a big consultancy & they send me off on a 3 month assignment to, say Edinburgh, I'll get to claim all my travel and subsistence costs directly from the consultancy.

So, does the big consultancy just absorb this cost or do they claim tax relief on the T&S of their employees as a PSC currently does with the T&S of the sole connractor operating through it?

mudskipper
14th August 2015, 10:14
Ok, just so I can be clear about this in my communication with my elected member.

If I'm a permanent employee of a big consultancy & they send me off on a 3 month assignment to, say Edinburgh, I'll get to claim all my travel and subsistence costs directly from the consultancy.

So, does the big consultancy just absorb this cost or do they claim tax relief on the T&S of their employees as a PSC currently does with the T&S of the sole connractor operating through it?

Yes, the expenses are tax exempt.

regron
14th August 2015, 10:58
We all know the chances of meeting our MP's will actually change things, however, surely as individuals we have to ensure we try every angle possible, in the hope someone will listen !! Sitting back and assuming nothing will happen or change, results in exactly that.

Personally I have met my MP and yes, he was totally useless and just fed me the party line ********* however, after requesting a specific response from him regarding my personal situation, rather than the template ******* he sent via Gauke, I will soon be arranging a follow up meeting to discuss the fact he said that they wouldn't make someone like me 'Bankrupt' Again, I am sure he will wiggle his way out of it, but for sure I will ensure such an outcome will get sent to the relevant media outlets.

Surely not doing something based on the philosophy " It won't change anything " is probably a root cause as to why nothing ever does change !!

Soap box.....Off

SueEllen
14th August 2015, 11:02
Mine's labour

to be honest I'm too embarrassed to write complaining that I (probably top 5% of uk earners, probably top 1% of under 30s) can't get tax relief on my travel etc - I expect my MP will be getting pleas from people not being able to afford school clothes for their kids due to reduced benefits - totally separate problem I know, but putting things into perspective, it's not the end of the world if I can't claim my travel - I'll still have food on the table

Totally understand the argument that it's discriminating smallCo's vs bigCo's (and to be honest that's the only bit of the argument I 100% agree with, as nobody here is forced into 300mile commutes, they choose to because they want to charge a decent rate) but I can't see my labour MP giving a fork, I think if labour had their way it would be even worse

(I voted Tory, but only for the feeling of "I did all I could" - my constituency will always be labour)

Lisa from contractor umbrella has a post in General with a link that has an example of why we need to claim T&S.

I'm on a phone so it's a hell to link (http://www.in-cumbria.com/home/businessman-issues-fresh-warning-over-skills-shortage-time-bomb-1.1225245?utm_content=buffer8c363&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin.com&utm_campaign=buffer)to but go and look at that article. Mod edit - link added

The email will be easier to write then as your MP will give a **** as they like having electricity and trains.

TykeMerc
14th August 2015, 11:03
I suppose you do all realise that if you write to your MP about a matter that is effectively down to a minister, they will have to pass the letter on for an answer. They won't answer it themselves, since they are neither authorised or informed enough to do so. And if they do, then write back and explain why you aren't satisfied with their answer.

So a few thousand forwarded letters from across the country all landing on Gauke's desk will make something of a point. Therefore the more that write to their MPs, the more effective everyone's campaigning will be and the more the point is made that this is a disaster in the making.

One thing is certain; whining impotently on here about ineffective MPs won't achieve anything. We - or rather you - have to use the system

That's such a well proven way to gain traction, after all didn't the BN66 crowd raise thousands of MP's letters and gain exactly feck all?

The track record of letter writing to MP's, is pathetic, it's like a fart in a hurricane, utterly futile.

Since you claimed that IPSE have a seat at the tables of power and were in a position to directly influence policy I'd love to see some of that, of course all your past claims could be complete tripe and IPSE could be completely impotent and ineffective and have long ago abandoned a fight that's still very much ongoing. IPSE betrayed its entire reason for existence long ago and can only recommend this type of utterly ineffective letter writing.

MrMarkyMark
14th August 2015, 11:07
as nobody here is forced into 300mile commutes, they choose to because they want to charge a decent rate)

Hmmm, I wouldn't say it is as simple as that.
For some they need to travel to get some kind of continuity of employment.

If you live in Yorkshire, for example, your options are fairly limited. I know someone who does, recently they have done, 6 months Edinburgh, 2 months local, now 6 months in London.

Obviously, the London gig pays the best of the lot.

Martin Scroatman
14th August 2015, 11:18
Lisa from contractor umbrella has a post in General with a link that has an example of why we need to claim T&S.

I'm on a phone so it's a hell to link to but go and look at that article.

The email will be easier to write then as your MP will give a **** as they like having electricity and trains.


Thad'll be this post right here (http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/108297-can-you-help-please.html#post2130475) then.

BrilloPad
14th August 2015, 11:23
If not, why the hell not?

Because IPSE twunts like you took the p1ss out of retro tax lot. I was a PCG forum member then and the threads started to have a go at those in trouble astonished me.

No they are coming for you too. HMRC say you are a tax evader. Not nice is it?

Avoidance is avoidance. Evasion is evasion. I would prefer it if we could keep on the same side. But your choice to walk away.

And anyway, it will do you no good. HMRC run the government. If you are ever ready to go for f4j tactics then you will get somewhere.

HTH BISDI.
<mod snip>

SueEllen
14th August 2015, 11:36
That's such a well proven way to gain traction, after all didn't the BN66 crowd raise thousands of MP's letters and gain exactly feck all?

The track record of letter writing to MP's, is pathetic, it's like a fart in a hurricane, utterly futile.


Depends if enough MPs see it as a threat to the country's stability.

Personally I don't like the IPSE letter due to the examples they use and making a fuss over dividend tax, as no one gives a **** about those in banking but people like having their lights on and get on decent trains that run on time.

Oh and while you may not like IPSE what have you got against Lisa and eek?

malvolio
14th August 2015, 11:37
Because IPSE twunts like you took the p1ss out of retro tax lot. I was a PCG forum member then and the threads started to have a go at those in trouble astonished me.

No they are coming for you too. HMRC say you are a tax evader. Not nice is it?

Avoidance is avoidance. Evasion is evasion. I would prefer it if we could keep on the same side. But your choice to walk away.

And anyway, it will do you no good. HMRC run the government. If you are ever ready to go for f4j tactics then you will get somewhere.

HTH BISDI.

<mod snip>
Well that's bollocks based on a membership lasting all of three days and not actually making any kind of case for your position. But what do I know: I was on your side until you decided the world had to bow down to you and you raised a formal complaint against me on the day you joined, which was dismissed out of hand as having no basis.

There's also a subtle difference between a comparatively small number (10k or so?) getting hit with an unfair tax demand after the event and something that has the potential to kill off a whole f***ing industry.

So nice rant but you are getting increasingly irrelevant.

BrilloPad
14th August 2015, 11:45
Well that's bollocks based on a membership lasting all of three days and not actually making any kind of case for your position. But what do I know: I was on your side until you decided the world had to bow down to you and you raised a formal complaint against me on the day you joined, which was dismissed out of hand as having no basis.

There's also a subtle difference between a comparatively small number (10k or so?) getting hit with an unfair tax demand after the event and something that has the potential to kill off a whole f***ing industry.

So nice rant but you are getting increasingly irrelevant.

I lasted a year with PCG. I had to change my forum username due to being personally hounded.

I thought you were on my side until you started the thread getting pleasure out of our plight.

It was only 2k of us. And I agree it will kill off contracting. But that is what the government want. We were just the thin end of the wedge.

We are all becoming irrelevant now. We can argue with HMRC. But they will hit us with an APN and deduct the money from our bank accounts.

Pity you can't see what is happening behind the scenes with NTRT TAA.

Lewis
14th August 2015, 11:51
FYI -

Easy to write to your MP here : https://www.writetothem.com/

IPSE template letter here: http://www.ipse.co.uk/sites/default/files/media/downloads/Template%20letter%20to%20MPS%20RE%20Summer%20Budge t.docx

Always better to edit the template to make it personal.

mudskipper
14th August 2015, 12:02
This isn't about making IPSE or anyone else happy. Just because IPSE suggest it (as do others) and you may not like IPSE, doesn't mean it's automatically a bad idea. My post here is nothing to do with making IPSE happy, it's to try and get people who may not have otherwise bothered to think about it, for all our sakes, whether you love, hate, or are indifferent to IPSE.

TykeMerc
14th August 2015, 12:08
Depends if enough MPs see it as a threat to the country's stability.

Personally I don't like the IPSE letter due to the examples they use and making a fuss over dividend tax, as no one gives a **** about those in banking but people like having their lights on and get on decent trains that run on time.

Oh and while you may not like IPSE what have you got against Lisa and eek?

MP's won't see anything as a threat to stability unless they're told to by their respective Whip's offices. Getting letters from contractors about what they will interpret as tax avoidance won't gain any sympathy or interest, none of them has any interest in the argument that MP's expenses are treated differently as that would endanger their place at that specific trough.

I can't see any reason to LIKE IPSE, it's proven to be faithless, toothless and to condone obnoxious, arrogant behaviour.

I have nothing against Eek, we share a lot of the same opinions and attitudes, I've filled in his questionnaire too (thought it was MUCH better put together than the IPSE one).
I've nothing against Lisa either, she's posted consistently solid advice and information and has asked for info in General which I've responded to.

teapot418
14th August 2015, 12:54
I've written to my MP. I don't know whether it will do any good, but it's made me feel like I've done something. I wrote my own version, but referred to the ipse template to make sure I'd covered everything in there that seemed relevant. I also left out dividend tax - as my old granny used to say, don't dilute a strong argument with a weak one.

LisaContractorUmbrella
14th August 2015, 12:55
FYI -

Easy to write to your MP here : https://www.writetothem.com/

IPSE template letter here: http://www.ipse.co.uk/sites/default/files/media/downloads/Template%20letter%20to%20MPS%20RE%20Summer%20Budge t.docx

Always better to edit the template to make it personal.

That template doesn't seem to exist :frown

pr1
14th August 2015, 13:01
That template doesn't seem to exist :frown

works for me - you probably have to be logged in on ipse.co.uk first

jamesbrown
14th August 2015, 13:10
works for me - you probably have to be logged in on ipse.co.uk first

They seem to be having issues with their login, presumably due to the updated website. I can see the forums, but I cannot access "my IPSE"; the login just returns to the home page, with the login still visible when using FireFox. Using IE, there's a fatal error :eyes

LisaContractorUmbrella
14th August 2015, 13:14
+1 seems to be broken :frown

malvolio
14th August 2015, 13:17
Yep, well broken. I will report it to the gnomes in the back room.

Done - but site is now down so it looks like some maintenance work going on. Bear with...

badger7579
14th August 2015, 13:22
I suppose you do all realise that if you write to your MP about a matter that is effectively down to a minister, they will have to pass the letter on for an answer. They won't answer it themselves, since they are neither authorised or informed enough to do so. And if they do, then write back and explain why you aren't satisfied with their answer.

So a few thousand forwarded letters from across the country all landing on Gauke's desk will make something of a point. Therefore the more that write to their MPs, the more effective everyone's campaigning will be and the more the point is made that this is a disaster in the making.

One thing is certain; whining impotently on here about ineffective MPs won't achieve anything. We - or rather you - have to use the system

Agreed and letter already in the post

d000hg
14th August 2015, 13:22
are you an ipse member? they sent out an example/template letter to start you off, you should have got an email on TuesdayNope, I am not.


That's such a well proven way to gain traction, after all didn't the BN66 crowd raise thousands of MP's letters and gain exactly feck all?

The track record of letter writing to MP's, is pathetic, it's like a fart in a hurricane, utterly futile.Just because MPs don't agree with every issue they're written to about, doesn't mean writing is pointless. At least a few MPs added their support in BN66 stuff from memory.

pr1
14th August 2015, 13:33
Nope, I am not.

Just because MPs don't agree with every issue they're written to about, doesn't mean writing is pointless. At least a few MPs added their support in BN66 stuff from memory.

I'll give you the free users version then:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I, mr/mrs small business owner am not happy about:
T&S review
Dividend tax
IR35 review
(delete as appropriate)

Kind regards,
me

teapot418
14th August 2015, 13:35
They seem to be having issues with their login, presumably due to the updated website. I can see the forums, but I cannot access "my IPSE"; the login just returns to the home page, with the login still visible when using FireFox. Using IE, there's a fatal error :eyes

I can't log in either. New site's a bit, um, bouncy!

mudskipper
14th August 2015, 14:36
I'll give you the free users version then:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I, mr/mrs small business owner am not happy about:
T&S review
Dividend tax
IR35 review
(delete as appropriate)

Kind regards,
me

Some pointers on p1 of the thread, before it all kicked off... :rolleyes:

pr1
14th August 2015, 14:46
Some pointers on p1 of the thread, before it all kicked off... :rolleyes:

by p5, p1 might as well not exist!

MercladUK
14th August 2015, 15:07
With all the crap that's being thrown at us, we need to get our MPs thinking about this.

So have you written to yours?

You can find him/her here (http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/).

Poll to follow... :)


nice sentiment but similar to the EBT issues, MP's are not interested.

Why rock the boat and ruin potential future earnings, promotions etc etc

DotasScandal
14th August 2015, 15:11
nice sentiment but similar to the EBT issues, MP's are not interested.

Why rock the boat and ruin potential future earnings, promotions etc etc

Ok.
But It's irrelevant. Interested or not, make your problems their problem.

Remember: they wanted this job!

TykeMerc
14th August 2015, 15:38
Ok.
But It's irrelevant. Interested or not, make your problems their problem.

Remember: they wanted this job!

Remember they're safely elected until the next election which is 4 3/4 years away, standard politician practice in the UK is to pay lip service at best to constituents interests.
Unless you're very fortunate and have an MP that feels passionate about their constituents or feels particularly nice about the cause you raise with them then you will just get a brush off, form response or escalation to the relevant department to get the standard response for the issue.

Remember they wanted the job because it's the route to a deep and frequently refilled trough for life.

SueEllen
16th August 2015, 12:14
Tory MP (or more likely his minions) replied to me.

As I suspected he was more interested in T&S than other issues especially as I used phrases like "skills shortage" and" flexible work force". He will forward my letter to the Treasury.

I sent my letter using "writetothem.com" and he took about a day to reply.

I did get a more in depth reply but I suspect anyone who sends the standard IPSE letter will now be getting his standard response on the issue.

mudskipper
16th August 2015, 12:23
Tory MP (or more likely his minions) replied to me.

As I suspected he was more interested in T&S than other issues especially as I used phrases like "skills shortage" and" flexible work force". He will forward my letter to the Treasury.

I sent my letter using "writetothem.com" and he took about a day to reply.

I did get a more in depth reply but I suspect anyone who sends the standard IPSE letter will now be getting his standard response on the issue.



Out of office from mine, with a

"Please note that if your email is part of a 38 Degrees or other lobby group campaign you will not receive a further response and should consult my website for my position on the issues raised by those computer-generated mass write-ins."

My letter is very different (and differently structured) to the IPSE one, but I did lift the odd phrase. Took me a fair while to write it, so will be a bit pissed off if I get nothing.

SueEllen
16th August 2015, 12:26
Out of office from mine, with a

"Please note that if your email is part of a 38 Degrees or other lobby group campaign you will not receive a further response and should consult my website for my position on the issues raised by those computer-generated mass write-ins."

My letter is very different (and differently structured) to the IPSE one, but I did lift the odd phrase. Took me a fair while to write it, so will be a bit pissed off if I get nothing.

I don't blame the MPs which is why I personalised mine and made T&S the main issue.

If your MP doesn't respond and they are on social media use it to embarrass them.

mudskipper
16th August 2015, 12:28
Out of office from mine, with a

"Please note that if your email is part of a 38 Degrees or other lobby group campaign you will not receive a further response and should consult my website for my position on the issues raised by those computer-generated mass write-ins."

My letter is very different (and differently structured) to the IPSE one, but I did lift the odd phrase. Took me a fair while to write it, so will be a bit pissed off if I get nothing.


Just checked his website.

He covers bees, assisted dying, mayfair tax loophole, hunting and backstreet breeding (??), not IR35 :)

Cloudrider
17th August 2015, 13:53
I wrote quite a few weeks back and here is the reply for interest...

Thankyou for your email.
I appreciate your concerns and have a,ready written to the Chamcellor about the dividends change .
I will send you his reply when received and then consider whether I need to write to him further and more widely regarding your email
I hope that is acceptable to you . I set up and ran a small business for twenty five years and know how hard it is -and that we live on the margins .

We'll see if I get a reply or in fact whether it makes a difference, but there is no point sitting and moaning if you don't ask or get involved is my moto.

LisaContractorUmbrella
17th August 2015, 14:27
I wrote to David Gauke on Monday of last week - am still awaiting an acknowledgement :popcorn:

SantaClaus
17th August 2015, 20:36
I suppose you do all realise that if you write to your MP about a matter that is effectively down to a minister, they will have to pass the letter on for an answer. They won't answer it themselves, since they are neither authorised or informed enough to do so. And if they do, then write back and explain why you aren't satisfied with their answer.

So a few thousand forwarded letters from across the country all landing on Gauke's desk will make something of a point. Therefore the more that write to their MPs, the more effective everyone's campaigning will be and the more the point is made that this is a disaster in the making.

One thing is certain; whining impotently on here about ineffective MPs won't achieve anything. We - or rather you - have to use the system

Been there, done it. Gauke is an arrogant bastard who won't give a tulip.

BrilloPad
18th August 2015, 08:29
Been there, done it. Mal is an arrogant bastard who won't give a tulip.

FTFY

On a serious note, let them waste their time. If you see a fisherman casting out their line into a dried up riverbed, just throw bread to the ducks.

SantaClaus
18th August 2015, 09:10
FTFY

On a serious note, let them waste their time. If you see a fisherman casting out their line into a dried up riverbed, just throw bread to the ducks.

Yep, being so involved with NTRT, I know that real democracy does not exist.

As I've always said, HMRC won't rest until they've brought everyone into the PAYE net and ruined the freelance IT industry.

d000hg
18th August 2015, 10:14
I blame the BN66 lot for giving the rest of us a bad name and putting us on HMRC's radar.

SantaClaus
18th August 2015, 11:47
I blame the BN66 lot for giving the rest of us a bad name and putting us on HMRC's radar.

LOL

centurian
18th August 2015, 17:43
Yep, being so involved with NTRT, I know that real democracy does not exist.

On the contrary, I think this is real "democracy" in action.

Democracy isn't this warm fuzzy utopia, where everyone's views get heard.

At the end of the day, democracy is all about the majority imposing their will on the minority. If that can be done without upsetting the minority too much all the better. But when push comes to shove, it's the majority view that matters.

However you try and spin it, we are in the minority, hence our views get ignored.

SueEllen
18th August 2015, 18:11
On the contrary, I think this is real "democracy" in action.

Democracy isn't this warm fuzzy utopia, where everyone's views get heard.

At the end of the day, democracy is all about the majority imposing their will on the minority. If that can be done without upsetting the minority too much all the better. But when push comes to shove, it's the majority view that matters.

However you try and spin it, we are in the minority, hence our views get ignored.

True.

Until they can't get any engineers to keep the lights on and the trains running, well if there are any trains in the first place.....

SantaClaus
18th August 2015, 20:08
On the contrary, I think this is real "democracy" in action.

Democracy isn't this warm fuzzy utopia, where everyone's views get heard.

At the end of the day, democracy is all about the majority imposing their will on the minority. If that can be done without upsetting the minority too much all the better. But when push comes to shove, it's the majority view that matters.

However you try and spin it, we are in the minority, hence our views get ignored.

I don't think the majority view matters at all. I'll state my views, but I'm sure I'll be asked to remove my tinfoil hat...

The top 1% are the only ones that matter. The rich and famous who party the night away with the Camerons at a 100 acre mansion in the Cotswolds - according to this week's Sunday Times. They are going to make damned sure the money stays where it belongs, not in the hands of us plebs.

The other 99% (the "majority") are spun the austerity line. It's not by accident that all the political parties are virtually the same - it's to maintain the status quo so nothing really changes. That's why the press and even parts of the Labour party are so scared of Jeremy Corbyn.

Cameron is doing a wonderful job for his crony friends at Crapita, just like Patricia Hewitt did under New Liebour for outsourcing. Once HMRC have completely stitched up all contractors with IR35, taxes and red tape, his mates will have a monopoly on big IT projects.

I saw this happening right from the start, and looking at the recent threads on CUK, it's only starting to dawn on people.

Zero Liability
18th August 2015, 21:18
Probably even fewer than that, i.e. the 1% of the 1%.

pr1
19th August 2015, 07:58
I don't think the majority view matters at all. I'll state my views, but I'm sure I'll be asked to remove my tinfoil hat...

The top 1% are the only ones that matter. The rich and famous who party the night away with the Camerons at a 100 acre mansion in the Cotswolds - according to this week's Sunday Times. They are going to make damned sure the money stays where it belongs, not in the hands of us plebs.

The other 99% (the "majority") are spun the austerity line. It's not by accident that all the political parties are virtually the same - it's to maintain the status quo so nothing really changes. That's why the press and even parts of the Labour party are so scared of Jeremy Corbyn.

Cameron is doing a wonderful job for his crony friends at Crapita, just like Patricia Hewitt did under New Liebour for outsourcing. Once HMRC have completely stitched up all contractors with IR35, taxes and red tape, his mates will have a monopoly on big IT projects.

I saw this happening right from the start, and looking at the recent threads on CUK, it's only starting to dawn on people.

you only(!) need to be earning about 150k (before tax) to be in the top 1% - I suspect there's a fair few on here that qualify for that if we take off our avoidance glasses

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax

MrMarkyMark
19th August 2015, 10:47
I suspect there's a fair few on here that qualify for that if we take off our avoidance glasses

That may be the case, however my invite to the Camerons did not drop on the mat this year :eyes.


Cameron is doing a wonderful job for his crony friends at Crapita, just like Patricia Hewitt did under New Liebour for outsourcing. Once HMRC have completely stitched up all contractors with IR35, taxes and red tape, his mates will have a monopoly on big IT projects.

I saw this happening right from the start, and looking at the recent threads on CUK, it's only starting to dawn on people.


Yup, try getting a Crapita contract to be outside IR35, pretty much impossible now, as far as I understand it.

I also believe they have contibuted to the T&S debacle.
They send their consultants all over the country, when they already have suitable and qualified staff based near the relevant sites.

Why?

They also happen to have their own travel agency.

Kerrrrchiing.

d000hg
19th August 2015, 11:28
The top 1% don't get rich through the rest of us being taxed, the money doesn't go to them. And they don't care if the rest of us are earning £50k or £100k when they are all multi-millionaires.

You get rich by making money, not by stopping other people making it.

BrilloPad
19th August 2015, 13:15
On the contrary, I think this is real "democracy" in action.

Democracy isn't this warm fuzzy utopia, where everyone's views get heard.

At the end of the day, democracy is all about the majority imposing their will on the minority. If that can be done without upsetting the minority too much all the better. But when push comes to shove, it's the majority view that matters.

However you try and spin it, we are in the minority, hence our views get ignored.

Understood. But take that to the extreme and you get what happened in Nazi Germany. And Hitler never got more than 32% of the vote.

NTRT were hit with retrospective legislation. As soon as you accept that you are on a slippery slope to Nazi Germany.

HHRC knew about Montpelier avoidance in 2001. They took no action until 2007 when they misled parliament. Another worrying aspect is that HMRC appear to control parliament.

But hey. Who cares. As long as one is okay then stuff anyone else.

centurian
19th August 2015, 16:43
Understood. But take that to the extreme and you get what happened in Nazi Germany. And Hitler never got more than 32% of the vote.

NTRT were hit with retrospective legislation. As soon as you accept that you are on a slippery slope to Nazi Germany.

HHRC knew about Montpelier avoidance in 2001. They took no action until 2007 when they misled parliament. Another worrying aspect is that HMRC appear to control parliament.

But hey. Who cares. As long as one is okay then stuff anyone else.

I don't disagree with any of that - I'm merely pointing out how "democracy" works in reality, compared to how we think/believe/want democracy to work.

And yes, taken to an extreme, democracy will deliver the occasional Hitler...

Zero Liability
19th August 2015, 18:07
The top 1% don't get rich through the rest of us being taxed, the money doesn't go to them. And they don't care if the rest of us are earning £50k or £100k when they are all multi-millionaires.

You get rich by making money, not by stopping other people making it.

Not all the top of the 1% got rich by building or growing their fortunes by producing much of value. Close connections to the money printing presses and good political connections - including being a politician - help. Using the government to hinder your competitors or as a primary source of income also comes to mind. That is what people are objecting to; I by and large agree with your stance on the wealthy and the generation of their wealth, but we exist in a system where the political means can afford substantial wealth, and that can involve siphoning wealth away from others.

Although taken literally, it is quite true that you get rich by making printing money. :happy

mudskipper
26th August 2015, 12:14
Zilch back from mine so far. I guess he must be researching a very detailed response...

TheFaQQer
26th August 2015, 13:02
Having heard nothing, I rang her local office and was advised to send it there instead. So I'll drop in a copy tomorrow (or ask my wife / children to do it for me).

LisaContractorUmbrella
2nd September 2015, 06:54
We are going to be adding something to the website along these lines:

HMRC are planning to introduce new rules in April 2016 which will effectively stop most contractors claiming tax relief on the money that they spend travelling to their various contracts. It is entirely possible that MP’s are completely ignorant of the effects that these changes will have on the UK’s flexible workforce so we are asking you to use the points listed below in a letter or email to your local representative.

1) An introductory paragraph - I'm a highly skilled contractor engaged on a series of assignments, each of limited duration and often the workplace is some considerable distance from my home. Legislation requires me to be treated as an employee, each workplace is regarded as a "temporary" workplace and I am allowed to claim tax relief on the cost of travel and overnight accommodation.

2) Then a paragraph about the MP - You Mr/Mrs/Miss MP will recognise that lifestyle because like me your work in Westminster takes you away from home and like me you are allowed to receive tax free reimbursement of travel and accommodation costs. If you like you could say that's as it should be, it would be unreasonable to expect you to foot the bill to get from home to Westminster to carry our Parliamentary business.

3) From 6th April 2016 you will still be able to receive tax free reimbursement of travel and accommodation costs but because of legislation of which you are presumably aware I will no longer be able to claim tax relief on the cost of travel and overnight accommodation. As one of your constituents, (even better to say a constituent who voted for you if appropriate) will you please let me have your considered justification for this attack on contractors and reasons why, if this change applies to me it does not apply to you.

4) Conclusion - this needs to be a hard hitting paragraph on the lines that if the change comes into effect then the constituent faces two options. He/she will either refuse to make their expertise available other than within short distances of their home leading to skill shortages in remote locations and on major projects, or they will demand ever increasing rates for their services and thus increase the costs to businesses generally.

SueEllen
2nd September 2015, 07:13
We are going to be adding something to the website along these lines:

HMRC are planning to introduce new rules in April 2016 which will effectively stop most contractors claiming tax relief on the money that they spend travelling to their various contracts. It is entirely possible that MP’s are completely ignorant of the effects that these changes will have on the UK’s flexible workforce so we are asking you to use the points listed below in a letter or email to your local representative.

1) An introductory paragraph - I'm a highly skilled contractor engaged on a series of assignments, each of limited duration and often the workplace is some considerable distance from my home. Legislation requires me to be treated as an employee, each workplace is regarded as a "temporary" workplace and I am allowed to claim tax relief on the cost of travel and overnight accommodation.

2) Then a paragraph about the MP - You Mr/Mrs/Miss MP will recognise that lifestyle because like me your work in Westminster takes you away from home and like me you are allowed to receive tax free reimbursement of travel and accommodation costs. If you like you could say that's as it should be, it would be unreasonable to expect you to foot the bill to get from home to Westminster to carry our Parliamentary business.

3) From 6th April 2016 you will still be able to receive tax free reimbursement of travel and accommodation costs but because of legislation of which you are presumably aware I will no longer be able to claim tax relief on the cost of travel and overnight accommodation. As one of your constituents, (even better to say a constituent who voted for you if appropriate) will you please let me have your considered justification for this attack on contractors and reasons why, if this change applies to me it does not apply to you.

4) Conclusion - this needs to be a hard hitting paragraph on the lines that if the change comes into effect then the constituent faces two options. He/she will either refuse to make their expertise available other than within short distances of their home leading to skill shortages in remote locations and on major projects, or they will demand ever increasing rates for their services and thus increase the costs to businesses generally.

That's really good.

I think you should encourage people to specifically spell out their own circumstances for example if they are an engineer who works in Cumbria this should be specifically stated. This because most people will just copy what you wrote without indicating the industry they work in.

suityou01
2nd September 2015, 07:31
We are going to be adding something to the website along these lines:

HMRC are planning to introduce new rules in April 2016 which will effectively stop most contractors claiming tax relief on the money that they spend travelling to their various contracts. It is entirely possible that MP’s are completely ignorant of the effects that these changes will have on the UK’s flexible workforce so we are asking you to use the points listed below in a letter or email to your local representative.

1) An introductory paragraph - I'm a highly skilled contractor engaged on a series of assignments, each of limited duration and often the workplace is some considerable distance from my home. Legislation requires me to be treated as an employee, each workplace is regarded as a "temporary" workplace and I am allowed to claim tax relief on the cost of travel and overnight accommodation.

2) Then a paragraph about the MP - You Mr/Mrs/Miss MP will recognise that lifestyle because like me your work in Westminster takes you away from home and like me you are allowed to receive tax free reimbursement of travel and accommodation costs. If you like you could say that's as it should be, it would be unreasonable to expect you to foot the bill to get from home to Westminster to carry our Parliamentary business.

3) From 6th April 2016 you will still be able to receive tax free reimbursement of travel and accommodation costs but because of legislation of which you are presumably aware I will no longer be able to claim tax relief on the cost of travel and overnight accommodation. As one of your constituents, (even better to say a constituent who voted for you if appropriate) will you please let me have your considered justification for this attack on contractors and reasons why, if this change applies to me it does not apply to you.

4) Conclusion - this needs to be a hard hitting paragraph on the lines that if the change comes into effect then the constituent faces two options. He/she will either refuse to make their expertise available other than within short distances of their home leading to skill shortages in remote locations and on major projects, or they will demand ever increasing rates for their services and thus increase the costs to businesses generally.

What legislation requires me to be treated as an employee?

LisaContractorUmbrella
2nd September 2015, 07:40
That's really good.

I think you should encourage people to specifically spell out their own circumstances for example if they are an engineer who works in Cumbria this should be specifically stated. This because most people will just copy what you wrote without indicating the industry they work in.

Thanks SueEllen :happy

That's what we are hoping for - the more evidence that we have to present the better - i am not sure that our MP's have the faintest clue what impact this could have on UK businesses - we aim to change that :happy

Pondlife
2nd September 2015, 08:26
No reply from mine yet. :(

LisaContractorUmbrella
2nd September 2015, 08:40
What legislation requires me to be treated as an employee?

The legislation being introduced to curb T&S expenses is based on an employment status test so technically you would be considered an employee for the purposes of the legislation even if it were a 'disguised' employee

mudskipper
2nd September 2015, 08:42
Great template Lisa, thanks!

Still nowt from mine :(

LisaContractorUmbrella
2nd September 2015, 09:52
Having become slightly irritated I have sent the following to Lord Andrew Feldman, David Gauke and the editor of the Daily Mail:

It really is no wonder that people in this country of ours have lost faith in their Politicians. This will be my third email to you since 10th August and I have yet to receive the courtesy of a reply or even an acknowledgement.

When the Conservative party was running for Government in this year’s General Election I was called upon, as the Managing Director of a large turnover business, to offer my support. I was happy to do this as I believed that the Conservatives were supportive of business, especially micro businesses and entrepreneurs. It seems that my faith was sadly misplaced as proposed changes to legislation will have a significant negative financial impact on those workers who help to boost the UK economy by offering their skills to companies on a temporary basis. These workers, contractors, travel long distances and often stay away from their families during the week to fulfil contracts in specialist industries such as IT, Oil and Gas, aeronautical, finance, the railway sector and nuclear power, often within the Public Sector.

I am sure that our MP’s at Westminster recognise that lifestyle, as their work takes them away from home; like contractors they are allowed to receive tax free reimbursement of travel and accommodation costs; this is not unreasonable. However, from 6th April, contractors who are unable to prove that they are NOT subject to supervision or direction or control or the right thereof will lose the right to claim tax relief on their travel and accommodation costs. This is a ridiculous test; it is virtually impossible, in law, to prove a negative and there is no case law to support the use of a single determinant for employment status.

I offered my support to you when you asked it of me. I am asking for your support now. Will you please let me have your considered justification for this attack on contractors and reasons why, if this change applies to them it does not apply to you.

If this legislation goes ahead contractors will either be unable to make their expertise available for contracts which are anything other than a short travelling distance from their home or they will look for rate increases to compensate them for their loss of earnings. Both of these will have an impact on UK businesses which are the foundation for the continued recovery of the economy.

This move is also likely to be unpopular with the electorate once the media realises that the worst hit from these changes will be low paid workers. Employment costs are increasing all the time thanks to legislative changes from the UK Government or Brussels so more and more large businesses are absolving themselves of the financial responsibilities of employment by forcing their workers through umbrella companies or into Personal Service Companies. The change in status would have a negative financial impact on the workers as Employer’s National Insurance would have to be paid by the umbrella company or the PSC from the agreed contract rate. The umbrella company would deduct a margin from this rate or the worker would be liable for accountancy fees. If the workers are moved, with the business paying the same hourly rate to the umbrella company or PSC as the worker earned in direct employment, then the worker will be significantly worse off. This has already been demonstrated following recent changes forced upon construction workers: Workers were promised £13 an hour - so why did they receive minimum wage only? - Andrew Penman - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/workers-were-promised-13-hour-4486402) . Umbrella companies were scape-goated but both the Unions and the construction companies were involved in the consultations before the legislation was introduced and knew exactly what the outcome would be if the construction companies themselves did not adopt the mantle of employer – the worker would suffer financially.

Compliant umbrella companies do not operate zero hours contracts and do offer all the Statutory payments but they were not designed as a vehicle for low paid workers; they were intended for use by highly paid, highly skilled contractors who used their services as an alternative to operating a single person Limited Company. They are now being used by companies wishing to avoid the responsibilities of employment and to cut costs. The proposed new legislation on travel and subsistence will mean that many workers will be going home to their families to explain that their take home pay will be reducing for the second time in just a few months. I have no doubt that those hard working families will question whether or not it is in their interest to continue working.

Surely it would be simpler and fairer for Government to legislate to remove these workers from umbrella company employment and from self-employment? We have previously suggested that the easiest solution would be to state that workers who earn, say, living wage plus 20% cannot be employed through an intermediary but must be employed direct and that those workers cannot be engaged under a fettered zero hours contract.

I have copied in Paul Dacre of the Daily Mail to this email as I believe that this proposed change in legislation will seriously impact growth in the UK and will penalise workers who should not suffer because they are prepared to travel long distances to fulfil short term contracts and that the people of Britain need to be made aware. It’s interesting to note that the large consultancies who are responsible for many Public Sector contracts will not be affected by the changes to legislation and neither will the politicians who are introducing them!

borderreiver
2nd September 2015, 15:00
Got a reply back from my MP today. He's apparently passed on my concerns to George Osborne :ohwell

I just hope that we get enough of a critical mass of letters to get some attention even if we don't write anything as eloquent as Lisa did.

BrilloPad
2nd September 2015, 15:02
Got a reply back from my MP today. He's apparently passed on my concerns to George Osborne :ohwell

I just hope that we get enough of a critical mass of letters to get some attention even if we don't write anything as eloquent as Lisa did.

The letters will be passed to HMRC. Who will compose a standard reply.

Anyone want to borrow my batman suit?

SueEllen
2nd September 2015, 16:34
The letters will be passed to HMRC. Who will compose a standard reply.

Anyone want to borrow my batman suit?

The letters won't be replied to by HMRC.

What will happen is if they think they can get away with the reg changes, a senior "advisor" will write the letter and all MPs will send a version of it to you with their details on it.

I've written to MPs on other things and you either get their own short response or an essay back. I then met a couple of people who explained about the essays....

Pherlopolus
2nd September 2015, 17:14
I just wrote to mine, prompted by this thread. I used a personalised version of the IPSE letter.

lets see...

ZARDOZ
3rd September 2015, 10:06
I wrote to my MP who is none other than Gosbo himself. No reply yet but may be able to collar him next week as he gets his McDonalds delivered.

BrilloPad
3rd September 2015, 10:08
I wrote to my MP who is none other than Gosbo himself. No reply yet but may be able to collar him next week as he gets his McDonalds delivered.

NTRT had a couple of people in Gauke's constituency and a couple in "Call me Dave"'s.

They got the standard fob off line dictated by HMRC.

f4j letters were ignored by MPs. Oddly though some well placed newspaper headlines caused quite a lot of change in the family court procedures. Strange...

Pherlopolus
8th September 2015, 10:36
I just wrote to mine, prompted by this thread. I used a personalised version of the IPSE letter.

lets see...

Had a response, My MP has written to the chancellor asking him what his thoughts and rationale are on the matter.

BrilloPad
8th September 2015, 10:39
Had a response, My MP has written to the chancellor asking him what his thoughts and rationale are on the matter.

That should sort it out in no time. :rolleyes:

Chancellor will get all replies sent to HMRC. HMRC will compose a standard reply of several pages that basically says "suck it up".

Pherlopolus
8th September 2015, 10:40
That should sort it out in no time. :rolleyes:

Chancellor will get all replies sent to HMRC. HMRC will compose a standard reply of several pages that basically says "suck it up".

but if they are busy doing that it might stop them coming up with any new bright ideas?

BrilloPad
8th September 2015, 10:42
but if they are busy doing that it might stop them coming up with any new bright ideas?

Indeed. If every contractor wrote to HMRC requesting all their data held every 40 days then that would make them think again.

Acme Thunderer
8th September 2015, 19:28
Wrote to my MP at the weekend. Not sure if it will do much good as she is a parachuted in Tory MP newly elected this year.

On a brighter note I heard a story that current ClientCo is making representations against this as well. A lot of their business is for people in blue (or green) uniforms, and need to use contractors because of the very variable workload and their very specialised knowledge.

SueEllen
8th September 2015, 19:45
Indeed. If every contractor wrote to HMRC requesting all their data held every 40 days then that would make them think again.

Unfortunately there is a limit on how often they have to give you the data.

Pherlopolus
8th September 2015, 20:07
Wrote to my MP at the weekend. Not sure if it will do much good as she is a parachuted in Tory MP newly elected this year.

On a brighter note I heard a story that current ClientCo is making representations against this as well. A lot of their business is for people in blue (or green) uniforms, and need to use contractors because of the very variable workload and their very specialised knowledge.

If it is Lucy Allen I would send her a letter and ask her on twitter too ;)

mudskipper
8th September 2015, 20:58
On a brighter note I heard a story that current ClientCo is making representations against this as well. A lot of their business is for people in blue (or green) uniforms, and need to use contractors because of the very variable workload and their very specialised knowledge.

That's good - I hope lots of clients will do that.

Pondlife
9th September 2015, 08:22
Still no reply from mine. :(

How long should I wait before I start getting stroppy.

DamianLeon
10th September 2015, 13:52
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/stop-the-chancellor-s-budget-attack-on-small-business-and-entrepreneurship

TheFaQQer
10th September 2015, 15:30
Still no reply from mine. :(

How long should I wait before I start getting stroppy.

Mine is back in London because she spoke in the HoC twice this week - so she's there and should have seen the letter.

I'll leave it until middle of next week and then give her a ring.

mudskipper
10th September 2015, 15:35
Still now't from mine.

Acme Thunderer
11th September 2015, 15:10
Got an e-mail today with an appointment to go and see mine, but I can't make it :tantrum:

Will ask for a different time instead

Ironically I think this is from the email asking to see her when this first started kicking off in July

SueEllen
11th September 2015, 16:25
Still now't from mine.

:(

You may have to remind them.

SueEllen
28th September 2015, 11:45
Got standard reply from treasury which ended along the lines of - we need to sort out the deficit.

Which means they refuse to understand the fact that people working around the country sort out regional skills shortages.

They aim to stop "normal commuting" being paid before tax.

BoredBloke
28th September 2015, 13:29
Got standard reply from treasury which ended along the lines of - we need to sort out the deficit.

Which means they refuse to understand the fact that people working around the country sort out regional skills shortages.

They aim to stop "normal commuting" being paid before tax.

I'm with them on stopping normal commuting being paid before tax. But it's not normal commuting to get up at 4:30 on a monday, travel a couple of hundred miles, staying in a hotel 4 nights of the week and then travel back. Its also not feasible to expect a contractor to uproot his/her family each time the temporary workplace shifts.

LondonManc
28th September 2015, 14:07
I'm with them on stopping normal commuting being paid before tax. But it's not normal commuting to get up at 4:30 on a monday, travel a couple of hundred miles, staying in a hotel 4 nights of the week and then travel back. Its also not feasible to expect a contractor to uproot his/her family each time the temporary workplace shifts.

+1

Lunchtime meals shouldn't be claimable either - I don't buy the packed lunch argument.

Acme Thunderer
28th September 2015, 20:11
I got a response from mine. Some guff about accepting LtdCo is needed for some people but the need to tackle TMI etc. Ran along the lines wait for the consultation to conclude

I do however have an appointment to see my MP but not until the end of Nov!

Need to impress upon them that the noises coming from the discussion/consultation doesn't look good.

May achieve nothing but at least I will have tried.

Zero Liability
28th September 2015, 20:35
I'm with them on stopping normal commuting being paid before tax. But it's not normal commuting to get up at 4:30 on a monday, travel a couple of hundred miles, staying in a hotel 4 nights of the week and then travel back. Its also not feasible to expect a contractor to uproot his/her family each time the temporary workplace shifts.

I think if you can reasonably anticipate a project going on for more than a few months, and simply rent, are relatively unattached and have few furnishings to move, it can work out cost-effective to move. However, it is a risk, as the client could always bin you well before, for whatever reason, and in the end commuting and subsistence are, IMO, costs of working, so to me they should remain tax-deductible expenses. The current 24 month rule is one of the less moronic things the govt has concocted in this respect.

SueEllen
28th September 2015, 22:12
+1

Lunchtime meals shouldn't be claimable either - I don't buy the packed lunch argument.

They know you can always make a packed lunch in a hotel and that all offices are near supermarkets.....

LisaContractorUmbrella
29th September 2015, 12:18
I have written to our local politician (and went to see him in Westminster), George Osborne, David Gauke several times and Lord Feldman several times - if you do get a response it's something generic from one of the HMRC bods but, for the most part, you get squat :frown

Zero Liability
29th September 2015, 19:50
Just curious if anyone has tried Douglas Carswell or Steve Baker, who are likely to be ideologically against these measures to begin with? I would think on that basis that they're less likely to trot out the same standardised nonsense, providing that they reply.

BoredBloke
1st October 2015, 09:10
Its nice to know that all our MP's benefit from travel and subsistence expenses way more than any of us do yet they fail to appreciate that we have to work away from home just like they do! The big difference being that for 6 months that could be London and then the next 6 months could be Edinburgh

LisaContractorUmbrella
1st October 2015, 09:15
Its nice to know that all our MP's benefit from travel and subsistence expenses way more than any of us do yet they fail to appreciate that we have to work away from home just like they do! The big difference being that for 6 months that could be London and then the next 6 months could be Edinburgh

Made this very point to them in our T&S submission:

"During the 2014-15 session the House of Commons sat for 133 days; if you exclude holidays (34 days) and the summer recess (35 days) this means that MP’s should have been in attendance for 133 days from a possible 191 days.[Source:Hansard] This would appear to meet the definition of a permanent workplace and yet MP’s home to Westminster (Work) travel will not be affected by this proposed change in legislation; so much for a ‘level’ playing field!"