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LisaContractorUmbrella
14th August 2015, 08:05
Ok, I've ventured over here from the safety of A&L so please be kind :help:

Are any of you working on large projects (particularly public sector) that are outside London, for which you've been shipped in as the skills aren't available locally?

As some of you may know we're busy putting together a consultation response on the T&S proposals to HMRC and I want to find more examples of this type of thing in-cumbria | Home | Businessman issues fresh warning over skills shortage time bomb (http://www.in-cumbria.com/home/businessman-issues-fresh-warning-over-skills-shortage-time-bomb-1.1225245?utm_content=buffer8c363&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin.com&utm_campaign=buffer). Basically projects where there is already a skills shortage that will then be exacerbated if the changes to T&S and, down the road, IR35 go through.

czakky
14th August 2015, 08:14
I've been filling roles with the HMRC and DWP in Leeds/Manchester/Newcastle for of the last 9 months, with alot of re-locators, so I'm guessing you will get alot of replies to this!

They do pay very tasty rates; but the process to get someone on site is just painful for all involved! (it's pretty much all through the Capita CL1 framework...if you know what this is, you will understand the last sentence!)

expat
14th August 2015, 08:18
Not currently, but until November last year I was on a contract in Liverpool for the DBS (ex-CRB) project. It was run by TCS so they could allegedly ship in all the skills they might need from their own resources, except for SC of course. Other SC contractors came from widely spread areas including London.

LisaContractorUmbrella
14th August 2015, 08:19
Thank you :happy

Are most of the contractors travelling and then staying overnight or do they live locally do you know?

I do know the CL1 framework - was it that that caused the difficulty in recruiting or are they just having trouble finding the right contractors for the roles?

czakky
14th August 2015, 08:39
The guys/girls I've placed over the lats few years have been a mix of stay all week in a hotel, and local guys/gals, I can't put an accurate number on it, but I would say its about 60/40 re-locate/live close.

The CL1 framework is a myriad of problems mixed with a bucket full of Crapita's shit process. Most agencies don't want to work through it, as the margins are low, and you have to deal with a Capita rec agent - you cannot speak to the manager you are hiring for, and most of the time the spec is awful, close to impossible to work awful.

To illustrate, 3 days ago I received a spec for 6 senior developers from it, the technical spec -

"Detailed knowledge of digital systems and enterprise-wide systems and relevant programming languages, e.g. Ruby, Python, Java, C++, C# or .NET"

Basically, get me anything that looks like a senior developer, Capita won't clarify the spec, and you can't call the line manager. In short, that role is going in the B file, and if I magically fill everything else on my desk today, I might look at it. Or go meet a client/candidate in the pub for "networking" as its Friday.

LondonManc
14th August 2015, 09:06
I've been filling roles with the HMRC and DWP in Leeds/Manchester/Newcastle for of the last 9 months, with alot of re-locators, so I'm guessing you will get alot of replies to this!

They do pay very tasty rates; but the process to get someone on site is just painful for all involved! (it's pretty much all through the Capita CL1 framework...if you know what this is, you will understand the last sentence!)

Local gov in Manchester do not pay tasty rates at all! Typically rate is £300-350 for my sort of role in Manchester; local gov not prepared to go above £210.

czakky
14th August 2015, 09:15
You are right, but the local government does not use CL1 - Its the larger bodies like the HMRC/DWP/MoD/HSCIC ect do, and they are paying very well for most things at the moment - although the tech lead of the "government as a platform" idea recently walked, so read into that as much as you want.

I've done a fair bit of council/housing trust work, some even in the North West - the rates are never great, and they seem to keep a small circle of contractors rotating between them, the latest hype being adult and social care implementation (Liquidlogic ect.). Not my favorite sector to work in, I seem to clash with people who piss my tax money away.

NibblyPig
14th August 2015, 09:42
Most of the time isn't there inherently an issue with people getting the skills they need by virtue of the fact they're hiring contractors in the first place?

I'm sure that the place I'm working would love me to be a permie, but they can't find anyone (due to a lack of anyone with the skills they need in the area) and thus I am brought in.

And I'm just a standard .NET stack bod.

DaveB
14th August 2015, 09:46
I'm currently working down near Southampton for a large government agency. They couldn't get anyone local as it's still within commuting distance of London, which pays better in permie terms.

I was brought in for a specific project with a defined lifespan.

I actually got the job direct, but procurement rules mean I have to use one of the preferred agencies.

BlueSharp
14th August 2015, 09:49
Hi Lisa,

I have worked on Projects that have been exclusively East Midlands and Private Sector. The client locations are the a**e end of no where on large light-industrial/office estates or out of town sites. As the motorway links to the whole country are much better and office space costs are substantially less then city based locations.

In every case the skills are not available locally and they use contracts to fill the skills gaps for specific projects then have scaled back contractor usage when the project is complete. Typically I stay away up-to two nights a week especially in the winter when the road conditions are poor or typical commute time exceeds 1.5 hours, millage claim is about 25k miles per year.

Personal yearly car costs of Midlands contractor commutes compared to when I was a local Permie are about 3.5 times higher.

TykeMerc
14th August 2015, 11:16
I've done a lot of projects on this basis, most of which I can't discuss for obvious reasons, a couple of them have been in bits of Cumbria too and the South West and even South Wales.

Most of those projects had staffs brought in from all over the place both permies and contractors.