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ZARDOZ
14th August 2015, 11:57
Isn't it true that the best years for contracting were under New Labour?

With Low tax and a buoyant contracting market you couldn't fail to do well. Yes they inroduced IR35 which had been sat in HMRCs arsenal for yrs BUT they didn't try very hard to make it effective.

Tories come in introduce loads more red tape, tax dividends remove expenses and with a very dirty trick push most into IR35. Will anyone here still be voting for them?

Gumbo Robot
14th August 2015, 12:00
Isn't it ture that the best years for contracting were under New Labour?

With Low tax and a buoyant contracting market you couldn't fail to do well. Yes they inroduced IR35 which had been sat in HMRCs arsenal for yrs BUT they didn't try very hard to make it effective.

Tories come in introduce loads more red tape, tax dividends remove expenses and with a very dirty trick push most into IR35. Will anyone here still be voting for them?

What do you mean still?

DimPrawn
14th August 2015, 12:10
I don't vote LibLabCon, they are all :winker:s

Chuck
14th August 2015, 12:10
Technically you may be correct, but the Tories are only fixing what incompetent Labour meant to do.

Don't think any one side is better than the other here. They both want our money, any way they can get it, so they can piss it all over their respective clientèle.

Bacchus
14th August 2015, 12:14
Isn't it ture that the best years for contracting were under New Labour?

With Low tax and a buoyant contracting market you couldn't fail to do well. Yes they inroduced IR35 which had been sat in HMRCs arsenal for yrs BUT they didn't try very hard to make it effective.

Tories come in introduce loads more red tape, tax dividends remove expenses and with a very dirty trick push most into IR35. Will anyone here still be voting for them?

Well this is the kind of "I'm all right jack" attitude that got us as a nation so deeply into hock, and now we're paying for it.

You weren't "doing better" and paying less tax because Bliar created a strong and vibrant economy, you were doing better because the tax that should have been collected was being piled onto the national debt and the illusion of property wealth was maintained.

If the UK economy is ever going to grow "organically" again, there has to be an element of the balancing of the books, and like it or lump it, contractors grossing £100-150k are going to have their pockets targetted.

I think 90% of contractors these days do fall "morally" within IR35 anyway if I'm honest, whatever the contract actually says. They go to work every day on the tube like good little commuters, get paid weekly or monthly by the agency, have desks in big offices, go to works drinks and have their phone numbers listed in the corporate directory then pretend they're businessmen and women.

If "all agency contractors" were deemed IR35 then at least there would be clarity to the rules, and the "real" contractors/consultants wouldn't be looking over their shoulders for Hector all the time.

The free market would eventually help sort out day-rates.

Bacchus
14th August 2015, 12:15
I don't vote LibLabCon, they are all :winker:s

Whoever you vote for, the Government always get in...

AtW
14th August 2015, 12:16
Technically you may be correct, but the Tories are only fixing what incompetent Labour meant to do.

Wot, the Labour were too incompetent to introduce separate dividends tax and scrap, oh those "archaic" dividend tax credits? :eyes

New Labour will be looked at as the equivalent of Golden Age of Britain in the 21st century, those queuing for bread in Waitrose will wish those days were back... but they never will!

:mad

LondonManc
14th August 2015, 12:18
I don't see any as the parties as worthy of my vote these days and only vote in local elections as one party does a very good job in our area and I want to do my bit to keep them in.

Labour overspent, encouraged people to enjoy the high life by borrowing money that they couldn't afford to pay back but it's the naughty Tories who have to clean up the mess that they left? We live among a generation of want now, celebrity-obsessed, vacuous morons who think that they have the right to everything without lifting a finger to get it. People just don't want to hear that the government cannot simply keep bankrolling them all and won't take responsibility. /rant

DimPrawn
14th August 2015, 12:21
We live among a generation of want now, celebrity-obsessed, vacuous morons who think that they have the right to everything without lifting a finger to get it.

They like the colour Purple I've heard.

czakky
14th August 2015, 12:34
We live among a generation of want now, celebrity-obsessed, vacuous morons who think that they have the right to everything without lifting a finger to get itt

I blame the parents.

Jog On
14th August 2015, 12:41
With what the 'party for business' are doing to us contractors I see no reason not to vote and support Corby for PM!!

What no one talks about when considering the deficit and who's 'fault' it is - is this:


As of March 2006, approximately £4.5 billion ($6.8 billion) had been spent by the United Kingdom in Iraq. All of this money has come from a government fund called the "Special Reserve" which has a current allocation of £7.4 billion ($11.29 billion).[19][20] According to the Ministry of Defence, the total cost of UK military operations in Iraq from 2003 to 2009 was £8.4bn. [21]

As of 2013, summations for the UK war in Afghanistan came to £37bn ($56.46 billion) .[22] Previous calculations up to but not beyond June 2010, confirmed a figure exceeding £20bn for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.[2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War#U.K._war_costs

If Corby pulls us out of Nato and scraps Trident and gets us out of the middle east clusterfudge we should get the finances in shape pretty soon!

That is if he even gets that far...

Corby! Corby! Corby! :banana:

DimPrawn
14th August 2015, 12:47
Corby! Corby! Corby! :banana:

Deary me, this is why contractors deserve everything they get.

Doggy Styles
14th August 2015, 12:48
Deary me, this is why contractors deserve everything they get.Indeed, but that one is just bantz.

AtW
14th August 2015, 13:19
Labour overspent, encouraged people to enjoy the high life by borrowing money that they couldn't afford to pay back but it's the naughty Tories who have to clean up the mess that they left?

Tory "cleanup" is keeping those who borrowed too much happy with low interest rates, pensioners sweet too, one of the biggest costs - NHS - is untouched more or less, so end result is that HIGHER TAXES - with token increase in high tax rate threshold more than offset by other tax increases, including pensions of those who are not yet retired. Inherited wealth Tory Scum is ok though, so I am voting for Komrade Korbyn, at least he will make those pigs squeal too.

expat
14th August 2015, 13:19
With what the 'party for business' are doing to us contractors I see no reason not to vote and support Corby for PM!!

This current Tory party are not the party for business, they are the party for Old Money.

Not to mention that nobody sees us as businesses any more. Even to pro-business people, we are not businesses but cost centres.

LondonManc
14th August 2015, 13:25
This current Tory party are not the party for business, they are the party for Old Money.

Not to mention that nobody sees us as businesses any more. Even to pro-business people, we are not businesses but cost centres.

Correct on the first sentence.

As for the second, we're more tax cows/tax evading targets.

PurpleGorilla
14th August 2015, 13:31
We live among a generation of want now, celebrity-obsessed, vacuous morons who think that they have the right to everything without lifting a finger to get it. People just don't want to hear that the government cannot simply keep bankrolling them all and won't take responsibility. /rant

This is the result of Thatchers boomers. There is no such thing as society. Boomer have had the sweet marrow and got greedy.

Fact; teenage pregnancy lower today. Fact; young take less drugs today. Fact; nightclubs are closing because the young have no money (or jobs). Fact; first time buyers are getting older. Fact; the first child is getting delayed. Fact; young have more debt, less pay, fewer jobs, lower retirement prospects, and a higher retirement age.

Boomers must pay there dues to sort this mess. 50% basic rate of tax on people over 40yrs old should do it nicely.

LondonManc
14th August 2015, 13:37
This is the result of Thatchers boomers. There is no such thing as society. Boomer have had the sweet marrow and got greedy.

Fact; teenage pregnancy lower today. Fact; young take less drugs today. Fact; nightclubs are closing because the young have no money (or jobs). Fact; first time buyers are getting older. Fact; the first child is getting delayed. Fact; young have more debt, less pay, fewer jobs, lower retirement prospects, and a higher retirement age.

Boomers must pay there dues to sort this mess. 50% basic rate of tax on people BORN BEFORE 1970 should do it nicely.

FTFY - nail the yuppies.

VectraMan
14th August 2015, 14:03
People just don't want to hear that the government cannot simply keep bankrolling them all and won't take responsibility. /rant

Sounds like CUK for the last month.

:igmc:

Jog On
14th August 2015, 14:08
I am voting for Komrade Korbyn, at least he will make those pigs squeal too.

They are squealing already - it's glorious :D

http://newsthump.com/2015/08/12/corbyn-boost-after-condemnations-from-dreadful-people/

expat
14th August 2015, 14:21
This is the result of Thatchers boomers. There is no such thing as society. Boomer have had the sweet marrow and got greedy.

Fact; teenage pregnancy lower today. Fact; young take less drugs today. Fact; nightclubs are closing because the young have no money (or jobs). Fact; first time buyers are getting older. Fact; the first child is getting delayed. Fact; young have more debt, less pay, fewer jobs, lower retirement prospects, and a higher retirement age.

Boomers must pay there dues to sort this mess. 50% basic rate of tax on people over 40yrs old should do it nicely.I have to correct you on your virtually meaningless throwing around of this term "Boomers". You seem to have this bizarre view of everyone older than you as "Boomers".

The Baby Boom is defined as the period between 1946 and 1964, when birth rates were exceptionally high due most likely to their having been depressed during WW2. It is purely a population birth-rate term.

In terms of generational cohorts, "Boomers" was adopted as a term for those born in these years, however it is often modified now into 2 cohorts, Boomers 1 or Original, born from 1946 to 1954; and Boomers 2 born from 1955 to 1964. After all, someone born in 1964 has very little in common with someone born in 1946 and it makes no sense to classify them as the same. Not unless "older" is all you mean, in which case you have little to say.

There is no such thing as "Thatcher's Boomers", all real Boomers had already come of age (which is the crucial cohort-binding experience) by the time of the Thatcher governments.


PS I might agree with you about "Thatcher's Children" but they are not Boomers.

ZARDOZ
14th August 2015, 14:28
Well this is the kind of "I'm all right jack" attitude that got us as a nation so deeply into hock, and now we're paying for it.

You weren't "doing better" and paying less tax because Bliar created a strong and vibrant economy, you were doing better because the tax that should have been collected was being piled onto the national debt and the illusion of property wealth was maintained.

If the UK economy is ever going to grow "organically" again, there has to be an element of the balancing of the books, and like it or lump it, contractors grossing £100-150k are going to have their pockets targetted.

I think 90% of contractors these days do fall "morally" within IR35 anyway if I'm honest, whatever the contract actually says. They go to work every day on the tube like good little commuters, get paid weekly or monthly by the agency, have desks in big offices, go to works drinks and have their phone numbers listed in the corporate directory then pretend they're businessmen and women.

If "all agency contractors" were deemed IR35 then at least there would be clarity to the rules, and the "real" contractors/consultants wouldn't be looking over their shoulders for Hector all the time.

The free market would eventually help sort out day-rates.

The Tories aren't Balancing the books, they are applying their ideology to certain areas while spunking taxpayer money in other areas e.g. the multi billion HS2 farce which no one seems to want. Hmm could that be another ruse for their cronies in the big corps.

As for the disguised employee bit, not sure how many are as you describe. that's not my MO these days. I was working mainly through MSAs all project based with no direction and control, other than 'this is what we need' and when. I did take some remote contract agency work to fill in the gaps. This whole thing will no doubt spook many of the less well informed clients and the MSA work will probably dry up too.

I did expect that one day contracting would be targeted which is why I never fell into the rock and roll lifestyle that most do. I bunged money away expecting it not to last, it lasted longer than I expected so I can't complain.

LondonManc
14th August 2015, 14:32
The Tories aren't Balancing the books, they are applying their ideology to certain areas while spunking taxpayer money in other areas e.g. the multi billion HS2 farce which no one seems to want. Hmm could that be another ruse for their cronies in the big corps.

Strange. When Tories spend money on infrastructure it's because they're propping up their cronies but when Labour do it that's because they're traditional socialists building infrastructure for the good of all. :rolleyes:

SlipTheJab
14th August 2015, 14:40
Deary me, this is why contractors deserve everything they get.

Whats the alternative, UKIP and Farage :freaky:

ZARDOZ
14th August 2015, 14:42
Strange. When Tories spend money on infrastructure it's because they're propping up their cronies but when Labour do it that's because they're traditional socialists building infrastructure for the good of all. :rolleyes:

The Labour contenders (3 out of 4) don't want to build HS2.


The Tory party of 2015 is not the Tory party of Thatcher, who love or loathe, was in touch with social mobility. They are (as Expat pointed out earlier) now solely the party of old money. They realised at the election, all they have to do is keep the heavily indebted lower middle class happy through cheap debt, token tax breaks and housing booms... and while that demographic think the Tories are their friends they can continue siphoning the wealth off to their super rich masters who are immune to any "fairness" when it comes to tax treatment.

DimPrawn
14th August 2015, 15:04
Boomers must pay there dues to sort this mess. 50% basic rate of tax on people over 40yrs old should do it nicely.

I propose a fair system of wealth distribution. Anyone who earns more than me, pays 99.99% tax. Anyone who earns what I earn or less, pays 0.01% tax.

Simples.

:smokin

PurpleGorilla
14th August 2015, 15:09
I have to correct you on your virtually meaningless throwing around of this term "Boomers". You seem to have this bizarre view of everyone older than you as "Boomers".

The Baby Boom is defined as the period between 1946 and 1964, when birth rates were exceptionally high due most likely to their having been depressed during WW2. It is purely a population birth-rate term.

In terms of generational cohorts, "Boomers" was adopted as a term for those born in these years, however it is often modified now into 2 cohorts, Boomers 1 or Original, born from 1946 to 1954; and Boomers 2 born from 1955 to 1964. After all, someone born in 1964 has very little in common with someone born in 1946 and it makes no sense to classify them as the same. Not unless "older" is all you mean, in which case you have little to say.

There is no such thing as "Thatcher's Boomers", all real Boomers had already come of age (which is the crucial cohort-binding experience) by the time of the Thatcher governments.


PS I might agree with you about "Thatcher's Children" but they are not Boomers.

My bad.

I hear you on the B1 B2 thing, let's call Thatcher's yuppies B3 and jobs a goodun.

All have had it gravy though.

PurpleGorilla
14th August 2015, 15:11
I propose a fair system of wealth distribution. Anyone who earns more than me, pays 99.99% tax. Anyone who earns what I earn or less, pays 0.01% tax.

Simples.

:smokin

I guess I was brought up to clean up any mess I made. But most Boomer 3's and A lot of boomer 2's expect the clean up of their mess to be done by someone else.

LondonManc
14th August 2015, 15:41
My bad.

I hear you on the B1 B2 thing, let's call Thatcher's yuppies B3 and jobs a goodun.

All have had it gravy though.

Give or take the double-digit interest rates being slapped on mortgages in the mid-70s....

PurpleGorilla
14th August 2015, 15:53
Give or take the double-digit interest rates being slapped on mortgages in the mid-70s....

So it was tough paying the mortgage for a few months on your detached 4 bed with half an acre, before inflation eroded the debt after a couple of years.

AtW
14th August 2015, 15:54
They are squealing already - it's glorious :D

Corbyn boost after condemnations from dreadful people (http://newsthump.com/2015/08/12/corbyn-boost-after-condemnations-from-dreadful-people/)

Viva la Revolution! :banana:

AtW
14th August 2015, 15:57
Whats the alternative, UKIP and Farage :freaky:

The Emigration Party.

In 2020 I will vote Komrade Korbyn and fook off to my private island somewhere where it does not rain more than once a year. :eyes

AtW
14th August 2015, 15:58
I propose a fair system of wealth distribution. Anyone who earns more than me, pays 99.99% tax. Anyone who earns what I earn or less, pays 0.01% tax.

Simples.

:smokin

is this the idea you took from your divorce settlement? :eek:

LondonManc
14th August 2015, 16:05
So it was tough paying the mortgage for a few months on your detached 4 bed with half an acre, before inflation eroded the debt after a couple of years.

I was born mid-70s, so take your grump clock-watching post and shove it. :D :banana:

expat
14th August 2015, 16:29
My bad.

I hear you on the B1 B2 thing, let's call Thatcher's yuppies B3 and jobs a goodun.

All have had it gravy though.I am Boomer 1, born in 1951. As a small child when I started wanting to eat sweets, they were still rationed. Our favourite places to play were bomb sites. But our parents, the wartime generation, believed in making a better future, and they did. We ran with that: on one side we were the better future and we benefited from their sacrifice; but on the other side we kept building a better world. We signed up for pensions not for ourselves (in the 1960s nobody young thought they'd ever grow old) but for our parents and grandparents because we knew what they had sacrificed. We didn't want to skim off the cream and leave future generations with the only other thing that floats: we believed as no generation before in ever better times. No one is more sorry than we to see that dream die, and I do not believe it needs to. It matters to me personally, I have adult children (millennials). In fact I think that one of the problems now is that the people in power now do not have adult children so they have no idea what it is like for them.

The Boomers' time has passed and most of our dreams were not realised. But we didn't make the tulip, we just failed to make reality live up to our dreams.

PurpleGorilla
14th August 2015, 16:57
I am Boomer 1, born in 1951. As a small child when I started wanting to eat sweets, they were still rationed. Our favourite places to play were bomb sites. But our parents, the wartime generation, believed in making a better future, and they did. We ran with that: on one side we were the better future and we benefited from their sacrifice; but on the other side we kept building a better world. We signed up for pensions not for ourselves (in the 1960s nobody young thought they'd ever grow old) but for our parents and grandparents because we knew what they had sacrificed. We didn't want to skim off the cream and leave future generations with the only other thing that floats: we believed as no generation before in ever better times. No one is more sorry than we to see that dream die, and I do not believe it needs to. It matters to me personally, I have adult children (millennials). In fact I think that one of the problems now is that the people in power now do not have adult children so they have no idea what it is like for them.

The Boomers' time has passed and most of our dreams were not realised. But we didn't make the tulip, we just failed to make reality live up to our dreams.

Makes no odds if the politicians have teenage kids. The cabinet are all millionaires.

Well your dream/debt needs paying for. Are you going to pay for it?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/02/263B994B00000578-2975356-image-m-7_1425285921506.jpg

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2009/Feb/uk-tax-payer-liabilities.gif

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http://goldsilverworldscom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/gold_inflation_adjusted_november_2012.png

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