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rl4engc
19th August 2015, 13:53
A couple of months ago, Mrs.RL4 receives a letter from her car insurers saying someone is alleging they saw her reverse into their car, damage it with the tow bar (there is no tow bar) and drive off. This was a couple of months after the alleged incident, there's no damage to her car. Car was definitely not in the specific area mentioned, but could have been in the general area.

Told insurance this, and forgot about it for a couple of months until recently got another letter from her insurers asking "Did you work at xyz on " "What were your shift patterns" "description of yourself".

I can only think it's a possible organised scam in that some tuliphead stands and takes reg. numbers they see of car(s) in an area, then tries to claim it was involved in a bump, hoping the other party just goes "Well it could have been I guess.."

Anyone had something similar? I'm of the mind to write to the insurance company along the lines of. "I [I]may have been in that area. I most certainly wasn't involved in a bump. My car doesn't have a tow bar. My car has no visible damage. Please provide CCTV evidence from four months ago showing the incident. I've said all I need to say on the matter, please refrain from sending any further queries in relation to the matter as it's causing undue stress and hassle."

SimonMac
19th August 2015, 14:21
A couple of months ago, Mrs.RL4 receives a letter from her car insurers saying someone is alleging they saw her reverse into their car, damage it with the tow bar (there is no tow bar) and drive off. This was a couple of months after the alleged incident, there's no damage to her car. Car was definitely not in the specific area mentioned, but could have been in the general area.

Told insurance this, and forgot about it for a couple of months until recently got another letter from her insurers asking "Did you work at xyz on " "What were your shift patterns" "description of yourself".

I can only think it's a possible organised scam in that some tuliphead stands and takes reg. numbers they see of car(s) in an area, then tries to claim it was involved in a bump, hoping the other party just goes "Well it could have been I guess.."

Anyone had something similar? I'm of the mind to write to the insurance company along the lines of. "I [I]may have been in that area. I most certainly wasn't involved in a bump. My car doesn't have a tow bar. My car has no visible damage. Please provide CCTV evidence from four months ago showing the incident. I've said all I need to say on the matter, please refrain from sending any further queries in relation to the matter as it's causing undue stress and hassle."

Problem is that these days there is little interest from insurance companies to fight claims, its cheaper for them to roll over and pay out any nominal damages

CoolCat
19th August 2015, 14:32
Back in the days when I was permie with a company car. Some guy drove into the door in my car while I was stationary. We got out he admitted liability, we swapped details. I wasn't that bothered as it was after all a company car, apart from the hassle of getting it to the bodyshop etc.

A few months later I got a call from the other drivers insurance stating that they were starting action against me as I had injured the passenger in the other car. I checked that I was speaking to a rep from one of the major insurers, I think I rang him back, and then I told him in no uncertain terms that there was nobody in the other car but the driver and that he had caused it and admitted liability. I told him to ring the injured party (the supposed passenger) and get them to describe me (as I am pretty distinctive and anyone who was there would be able to mention I had purple hair and was wearing a batman costume (I wasn't but I was equally distinctive)). Anyways insurance company bloke rang me back and admitted his passenger had no clue what I looked like and he accepted to me that his clients were lying. End of problem. So it is possible to talk sense to the big insurance companies.

CoolCat
19th August 2015, 14:34
And Re "as it's causing undue stress and hassle" no its harassment which is a criminal and civil matter for which you can have them arrested if you can prove your side of the story. Harassment is magic word which causes flutters in the ears of any lawyers involved as they know it gets expensive very quickly if they are wrong.

jmo21
19th August 2015, 14:41
Anyone had something similar? I'm of the mind to write to the insurance company along the lines of. "I may have been in that area. I most certainly wasn't involved in a bump. My car doesn't have a tow bar. My car has no visible damage. Please provide CCTV evidence from four months ago showing the incident. I've said all I need to say on the matter, please refrain from sending any further queries in relation to the matter as it's causing undue stress and hassle."

I wouldn't even bother including that in case it gives them some tiny straw to grab onto.

I'd be telling my insurance company in no uncertain terms not to settle in any way or they will lose my business. Also, state if you had done a runner, I would have expected they report it to the police.

vetran
19th August 2015, 14:57
I wouldn't even bother including that in case it gives them some tiny straw to grab onto.

I'd be telling my insurance company in no uncertain terms not to settle in any way or they will lose my business. Also, state if you had done a runner, I would have expected they report it to the police.

state that its obviously fraud and they should involve the Police. Nothing to do with you.

cojak
19th August 2015, 14:58
Going back to the dashcam thread, you can get ones that start recording if the car is moved/rocked in any way while it's stationary.

BrilloPad
19th August 2015, 15:00
Going back to the dashcam thread, you can get ones that start recording if the car is moved/rocked in any way while it's stationary.

In case a man with a pushchair scratches your Audi?

vetran
19th August 2015, 16:00
Going back to the dashcam thread, you can get ones that start recording if the car is moved/rocked in any way while it's stationary.

Saturday night dogging recorded?

FatLazyContractor
19th August 2015, 16:20
After a similar saga on a Passat cc I used to own a couple of years ago, I have converted my current RR into a mobile CCTV unit :smokin

I drive in and out of Bradford/Leeds regularly and I had one incident involving a twat who tried to false claim against me. I provided my CCTV evidence to the insurance company and the fecker was reported to the police promptly :devil

Yes, there are loads of CCTV units that can be fitted to your car that keep recording 24x7 or as and when there is some motion. I got mine professionally fitted and the darn cameras run off their own battery in the boot (charges off the cigarette socket). :smokin

unixman
19th August 2015, 16:39
Told insurance this, and forgot about it for a couple of months until recently got another letter from her insurers asking "Did you work at xyz on [incident.date()]" "What were your shift patterns" "description of yourself".

What, are they investigating crimes now? WTF "What were your shift patterns" ?! Description of yourself?? You have given them the information on your whereabouts, now they disbelieve you and attempt a cross-examination by post? Absurd.

What is the point of asking somebody you suspect, by post, for a description of themselves? They could obviously just make one up. I would be tempted to write a short letter back acknowledging their letter and saying if they find your original answer unsatisfactory, to take the matter up with the police. (I presume you would be happy to answer police questions).

And I would consider sending your local cops a copy of their letter too, saying you suspect it is some sort of insurance scam or your number pate has been cloned or whatever.

SueEllen
19th August 2015, 21:42
And I would consider sending your local cops a copy of their letter too, saying you suspect it is some sort of insurance scam or your number pate has been cloned or whatever.

Police wouldn't be interested unless the insurer reported it. Even then the insurer would have to do most of the investigation themselves.


A couple of months ago, Mrs.RL4 receives a letter from her car insurers saying someone is alleging they saw her reverse into their car, damage it with the tow bar (there is no tow bar) and drive off. This was a couple of months after the alleged incident, there's no damage to her car. Car was definitely not in the specific area mentioned, but could have been in the general area.

Told insurance this, and forgot about it for a couple of months until recently got another letter from her insurers asking "Did you work at xyz on [incident.date()]" "What were your shift patterns" "description of yourself".



Simply state in writing:
1. You were not at the specified location at the time stated
2. The description of the car is wrong

There is no need to go into detail and you should give a definitive answer.

Also state you think the allegation is a fraudulent, and they are welcome to come round and question you - Be aware if they do they will look at the car first if it's parked outside and may not even come to talk to you. Send the letter by signed for post and keep the receipt until after you have renewed.

If the insurer wanted to investigate it properly they should ring you up and speak to you.

Insurers have voice pattern software to check if a claim is fraudulent. They ring you up a few times and ask you similar questions and if they don't like the answers they take it from there.

If you have any bank statements which can help establish that you were shopping somewhere at a particular time it will help jog your memory, as unfortunately CCTV and other recordings are normally recorded over within a month and sometimes sooner.

BTW I hope the car insurance is not up for renewal within the next 3-4 months as it will screw you up. Be prepared to have to fight the insurer as sometimes they will state you have a claim against you leaving it opening instead of closing the case.

NickFitz
19th August 2015, 21:50
Insurers have voice pattern software to check if a claim is fraudulent. They ring you up a few times and ask you similar questions and if they don't like the answers they take it from there.


They are also no doubt aware that such software is complete horseshit with no scientific validity whatsoever, so if they were to try to introduce something of that ilk, just pointing out that you know it's nonsense would be enough to make them quietly drop it.

SueEllen
19th August 2015, 22:01
They are also no doubt aware that such software is complete horsetulip with no scientific validity whatsoever, so if they were to try to introduce something of that ilk, just pointing out that you know it's nonsense would be enough to make them quietly drop it.

Of course it's nonsense - they are just recording you .

They end up using humans like the police do.

If someone gives exactly the same story they are more likely lying.

Most humans when telling a recollection of events give a variation on the same story.

unixman
20th August 2015, 08:24
Police wouldn't be interested unless the insurer reported it. Even then the insurer would have to do most of the investigation themselves.




Simply state in writing:
1. You were not at the specified location at the time stated
2. The description of the car is wrong

There is no need to go into detail and you should give a definitive answer.



Sounds like good advice from SueEllen. Regarding the specific point above, the OP seems to have told them that already in his first response. And the police might be interested if they think a local gang is writing to people to ask about their shift patterns.

Regarding shift patterns, I would personally never give out information of my habitual movements to a stranger, as this is obviously useful to burglers. I also wouldn't assume that the sender of the letters is an "insurance company".


There is no need to go into detail and you should give a definitive answer.

Good advice for this and may other situations. I might stick it on the wall.

Eirikur
20th August 2015, 09:46
I found out the other day that my car insurer, Aviva, sells claim information to dodgy personal injury claim agencies.
My car was scratched just a a little bit, I told Aviva about it and ever since I receive calls from these agencies "I'm calling about you accident on July 15th" So the fact that they have the date right must mean they got it form the insurer.

rl4engc
20th August 2015, 09:59
Cheers for the good responses everyone, sounds daft but up until now I've assumed the letters were genuine, as she's rang her Car Ins. to discuss it, however with my very suspicious mind looking at the latest letter, it appears genuine (has the correct phone numbers on headed paper) however the English isn't brilliant ("Do you work/worked at ..."), and I can't find the "telephone number dedicated to this claim" anywhere on internet (just in the same 0345 xxx yyyy block as Ins. Co).

For now though assuming letter is genuine (wifey not around so can't phone to confirm)


1) Wifey insurance Co. saying other insurer have requested details inc. description of driver, do I answer or ignore, or ask for other party to describe driver?
2) On harassment, who do I aim this at since all the letters are from Wifey Car Insurance acting as piggy in the middle. I can't say I feel harrassed by her insurers can I?
3) Good points: She wasn't in the area, instruct not to settle, state if had done a runner, would have expected they report it to the police, stinks of fraud, The description of the car is wrong
4) Insurance is due in Oct. :( It's a f&cking tulip system when someone can allege something, thus you have a claim 'open' against you, and this will affect insurance prices. Guilty before being proved innocent.

Cheers once again appreciate the collective knowledge on CUK. :)