PDA

View Full Version : Are Footballers come under new tax regime?



WilsonPiper72
6th September 2015, 17:49
Is Gorgie targeting only IT guys or other professionals too?... aka. Locum Doctors, Footballers, solicitors.
I believe they also have simliar contracts and middleman( agents!)
I tried finding answers without much luck though!

Cheers
W.:mad

SussexSeagull
6th September 2015, 18:43
Didn't Rangers get investigated for paying players through dubious tax efficient vehicles? I would have thought once the sign they are more or less a permanent employee so won't get T&S relief anyway.

Not sure how Doctors and Solicitors work at the moment but it will include them if they go through agents, I imagine.

SueEllen
6th September 2015, 18:53
Didn't Rangers get investigated for paying players through dubious tax efficient vehicles? I would have thought once the sign they are more or less a permanent employee so won't get T&S relief anyway.

Not sure how Doctors and Solicitors work at the moment but it will include them if they go through agents, I imagine.

Doctors and Solicitors work direct or through agents.

If they use agents than they have to use a vehicle such as a limited company or umbrella company.

Basically there are lots of different industries that use temporary highly skilled staff.

TestMangler
6th September 2015, 19:29
Didn't Rangers get investigated for paying players through dubious tax efficient vehicles? I would have thought once the sign they are more or less a permanent employee so won't get T&S relief anyway.

Not sure how Doctors and Solicitors work at the moment but it will include them if they go through agents, I imagine.

A lot of footballers and 'pop stars' and entertainers work through LTD's. They were specifically excluded from IR35 in 2000.

pr1
7th September 2015, 07:03
A lot of footballers and 'pop stars' and entertainers work through LTD's. They were specifically excluded from IR35 in 2000.

they work through whatever their accountant says they should work through

northernladuk
7th September 2015, 08:29
Is Gorgie targeting only IT guys or other professionals too?... aka. Locum Doctors, Footballers, solicitors.
I believe they also have simliar contracts and middleman( agents!)
I tried finding answers without much luck though!

Cheers
W.:mad

If they use the models mentioned in the legislations then yes, if not, no. Simples.

SimonMac
7th September 2015, 08:48
The main salary for a footballer would be PAYE as employees, a LTD company would be set up for image rights and sponsorship which as they come from various other sources there is no problem with IR35 etc.

I know athletes have some exceptions when it comes to global earnings, so they only pay the tax on their UK Income (IANAL)

Fandango
7th September 2015, 10:17
I was also under the impression that footballers club salary is PAYE

Have you not seen the supposed pay slip for Tevez that did the rounds a while ago?

http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2191/e3ac753de59c4421873c6c04f635469b.jpg

lucozade
7th September 2015, 10:23
Didn't Rangers get investigated for paying players through dubious tax efficient vehicles? I would have thought once the sign they are more or less a permanent employee so won't get T&S relief anyway.

Not sure how Doctors and Solicitors work at the moment but it will include them if they go through agents, I imagine.

If you are referring to EBTs then Rangers have won twice in court against HMRC. There is another appeal in the system that will be heard next month.

As it currently stands there is nothing "dubious" about EBTs and HMRC have failed to prove otherwise.

TestMangler
7th September 2015, 10:34
The main salary for a footballer would be PAYE as employees, a LTD company would be set up for image rights and sponsorship which as they come from various other sources there is no problem with IR35 etc.

I know athletes have some exceptions when it comes to global earnings, so they only pay the tax on their UK Income (IANAL)

Trust me it's not in a lot of cases. A large percentage of footballers outside the top tier (on anything up from a grand a week) are going through LTD's where the LTD has a contract with the club rather than the individual.

The argument about control, company uniform etc was used hundreds of times back in 2000 and there was a specific exclusion for footballers and entertainers.

A lot of bands have the individual members as LTD's all contracted to a LTD for the band which is in turn contracted to their management and record company etc.

jpdw
7th September 2015, 17:40
I was also under the impression that footballers club salary is PAYE

Have you not seen the supposed pay slip for Tevez that did the rounds a while ago?

http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2191/e3ac753de59c4421873c6c04f635469b.jpg

I bet that £24 FA Fine really hurt.........

Jessica@WhiteFieldTax
7th September 2015, 20:48
A lot of footballers and 'pop stars' and entertainers work through LTD's. They were specifically excluded from IR35 in 2000.

I'm not aware of any sector exemptions from IR35?

What's your source on this?

SueEllen
7th September 2015, 21:58
A lot of footballers and 'pop stars' and entertainers work through LTD's. They were specifically excluded from IR35 in 2000.

It's actually harder for HMRC to make an IR35 case against a comedian or pop star than an engineer or anchor person. So while you think they are specifically excluded they aren't.

SimonMac
7th September 2015, 22:16
Trust me it's not in a lot of cases. A large percentage of footballers outside the top tier (on anything up from a grand a week) are going through LTD's where the LTD has a contract with the club rather than the individual.

The argument about control, company uniform etc was used hundreds of times back in 2000 and there was a specific exclusion for footballers and entertainers.

A lot of bands have the individual members as LTD's all contracted to a LTD for the band which is in turn contracted to their management and record company etc.

I would question that, as a club can only have a contract with a player, not a company given the rules about third party ownership from the Tevez, Mascarano and MSI case

jamesbrown
7th September 2015, 22:18
I'm not aware of any sector exemptions from IR35?

What's your source on this?

Confusion w/r to "excluded services" in the agency legislation (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/esmmanual/esm2012.htm), perhaps? There are no exempt services for IR35, other than those that are deemed outside...

MrWebDev
8th September 2015, 11:37
I know a Barrister (the law type, not a coffee shop worker ;-) ) and interestingly most of them work as self-employed rather than through a Limited Co. Apparently it's frowned upon in the legal industry to work through a Limited Co. due to the limited liability aspect.

jamesbrown
8th September 2015, 11:48
I know a Barrister (the law type, not a coffee shop worker ;-) ) and interestingly most of them work as self-employed rather than through a Limited Co. Apparently it's frowned upon in the legal industry to work through a Limited Co. due to the limited liability aspect.

As I understand it, it's more about the regulatory aspects than being frowned upon and, until recently, it wasn't allowed by the relevant bodies that regulate standards (i.e. for self-employed people to incorporate, as opposed to setting up a new law firm).

JonNorris@Crunch
8th September 2015, 11:55
I would question that, as a club can only have a contract with a player, not a company given the rules about third party ownership from the Tevez, Mascarano and MSI case

I wrote about this not too long ago (here - https://www.crunch.co.uk/blog/small-business-advice/2014/04/24/footballers-paid-average-wage/ ) - AFAIK you're right, players are employed on PAYE contracts. Some have LTD vehicles for image rights / sponsorships etc. but HMRC is trying to clamp down on it.

Forgotmylogin
9th September 2015, 10:36
I know a Barrister (the law type, not a coffee shop worker ;-) ) and interestingly most of them work as self-employed rather than through a Limited Co. Apparently it's frowned upon in the legal industry to work through a Limited Co. due to the limited liability aspect.

No, they are ALL self-employed. It's quite simply that Barristers are not allowed to incorporate. In the same way, they are not allowed to sue for late / non-payment of fees - don't get your hopes up of screwing one, it's the solicitors who engaged them who pay them, and they can chase you.

SimonMac
31st October 2015, 09:11
Rafael Benitez and Carlo Cudicini targeted in tax probe (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11967161/Rafael-Benitez-and-Carlo-Cudicini-targeted-in-tax-probe.html)

Ooooops!

eazy
2nd November 2015, 08:33
No exemptions but actors rely on the following case law:

Case Law: Davies v Braithwaite (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/esmmanual/esm7020.htm)