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View Full Version : HMRC flexes new powers on contract and freelance workers in £5.5bn raid



PerfectStorm
20th September 2015, 10:08
HMRC uses new powers on contractors: 'I was told to pay '£30,000 within 90 days' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11865618/HMRC-uses-new-powers-on-contractors-I-was-told-to-pay-30000-within-90-days.html)

Snarf
20th September 2015, 12:12
I've only skimmed the article (out shopping) but it looked to me like they are only going after people in dodgy avoidance schemes?

PerfectStorm
20th September 2015, 13:27
I've only skimmed the article (out shopping) but it looked to me like they are only going after people in dodgy avoidance schemes?

Yes.

DotasScandal
21st September 2015, 00:16
A comprehensive article was published yesterday in the Telegraph on HMRC's APN war on contractors.
The link was mentioned by some others, but was buried deep in loosely related threads.So I'm reposting it here.

The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11865618/HMRC-uses-new-powers-on-contractors-I-was-told-to-pay-30000-within-90-days.html)

MrsB1974
21st September 2015, 10:30
Hmmmm...

"HMRC has received £1bn so far from taxpayers... although much of this money is expected to be refunded."

Really??! Argh!

Or is Hector just saying this to make themselves sound reasonable?

gables
21st September 2015, 11:54
I've only skimmed the article (out shopping) but it looked to me like they are only going after people in dodgy avoidance schemes?


Yes.

Cool

Snarf
21st September 2015, 11:55
Yes.

That's not too bad then.. The scheme I'm on is all above board (they promised) ;)

NotAllThere
21st September 2015, 12:33
Merged two discussions on the same topic. There's another one in General for the stout hearted.

wantacontract
21st September 2015, 12:51
man thats some scary stuff....good job i am ltd..and always paid my tax...

BrilloPad
21st September 2015, 12:52
I've only skimmed the article (out shopping) but it looked to me like they are only going after people in dodgy avoidance schemes?

Can you define dodgy?

Personally I think anyone who is not fully IR35 compliant is dodgy.

How about letting the law decide?

Snarf
21st September 2015, 13:01
Personally I think anyone who is not fully IR35 compliant is dodgy.

How about letting the law decide?

You're so funny.

As for letting the law decide who said anything contrary to that? What I was getting at is that most of us, operating within the law and not part of a "take home 90+% of your earnings" don't have to be too worried about this.

StrengthInNumbers
21st September 2015, 20:42
You're so funny.

As for letting the law decide who said anything contrary to that? What I was getting at is that most of us, operating within the law and not part of a "take home 90+% of your earnings" don't have to be too worried about this.

Because u think only those 90% take home are getting affected. Many getting effect had less take home than limited company contractors and joined the scheme as more compliant solution.

That said whether 70% or 90% - it should be based on law and if HMRC is correct why not a single EBT contractor scheme in courts yet?

Snarf
21st September 2015, 20:46
Because u think only those 90% take home are getting affected. Many getting effect had less take home than limited company contractors and joined the scheme as more compliant solution.

That said whether 70% or 90% - it should be based on law and if HMRC is correct why not a single EBT contractor scheme in courts yet?

Jesus.
90% was an example.
Perhaps dodgy was the wrong word.. What I was asking was is hmrc using this to taget people avoiding tax by use of external schemes rather than as an extension of IR35/some other powers they have.

DotasScandal
21st September 2015, 23:57
Jesus.
90% was an example.
Perhaps dodgy was the wrong word.. What I was asking was is hmrc using this to taget people avoiding tax by use of external schemes rather than as an extension of IR35/some other powers they have.

The irony is that a huge number of contractors moved from Ltd Co. to DOTAS structure to escape the uncertainty brought about by IR35.
HMRC themselves created this industry and the ground that allowed it to flourish.

DotasScandal
22nd September 2015, 00:04
What I was getting at is that most of us, operating within the law and not part of a "take home 90+% of your earnings" don't have to be too worried about this.

You seem quite the optimist - good for you. I guess you don't need to worry....until the time when the Chancellor decides, again, that "the country needs money" - and that a new piece of retrospective legislation would be handy.
Don't forget that HMRC's stance on contractor schemes in 2005 was not what it is in 2015. Maybe in 2025, HMRC will look at one-man Ltd. Co.s differently from today. Think about it.

LandRover
22nd September 2015, 14:29
You seem quite the optimist - good for you. I guess you don't need to worry....until the time when the Chancellor decides, again, that "the country needs money" - and that a new piece of retrospective legislation would be handy.
Don't forget that HMRC's stance on contractor schemes in 2005 was not what it is in 2015. Maybe in 2025, HMRC will look at one-man Ltd. Co.s differently from today. Think about it.

Wise words DS...I find it irritating when others appear to pre-judge people who were unfortunate to choose to use the DoTAS schemes that were offered as alternatives to IR35. Many of us didnt foresee this, many of us had advice from Chartered Accountants and Financial Advisers. People need to remember the scumverment and HMRC change the rules, they have used retrospective legislation to attack a target for ££££s.

Who or What next for others?

BrilloPad
22nd September 2015, 15:43
You're so funny.

As for letting the law decide who said anything contrary to that? What I was getting at is that most of us, operating within the law and not part of a "take home 90+% of your earnings" don't have to be too worried about this.

They will be coming for you soon. Soon you will have to be fully IR35 compliant or else you will get an APN and the money taken directly from your bank account.

chubacabra
23rd September 2015, 06:59
They will be coming for you soon. Soon you will have to be fully IR35 compliant or else you will get an APN and the money taken directly from your bank account.

Especially since the most recent budget. There's gonna be a renewed effort on IR35 and also claiming expenses for subsistence and travel.

Remember the three magic words - supervision, direction and control

But of course law abiding, full tax paying citizens have nothing to worry about

MicrosoftBob
23rd September 2015, 07:00
Especially since the most recent budget. There's gonna be a renewed effort on IR35 and also claiming expenses for subsistence and travel.

Remember the three magic words - supervision or direction or control

But of course law abiding, full tax paying citizens have nothing to worry about

FTFY

Remember they have changed the goal posts, you only have to be under either supervision, or direction or control for the purposes of claiming expenses in the future.

That's a whole different playing field

MrsB1974
24th September 2015, 07:04
...or else you will get an APN and the money taken directly from your bank account.

I don't think their powers extend to that, do they?

regron
24th September 2015, 09:06
I don't think their powers extend to that, do they?

Yes they do

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/issue-briefing-direct-recovery-of-debts--2

LandRover
24th September 2015, 16:03
I don't think their powers extend to that, do they?

Extract...

"This briefing explains how HMRC will recover tax or tax credit debt directly from the bank and building society accounts of the small number of people who refuse to pay, and the safeguards that will be applied."

Does refuse to pay mean can't pay in HMRC ideology???

njwilli3
25th September 2015, 13:34
If you've got less than 5k then it looks like they won't take anything

BrilloPad
25th September 2015, 13:37
If you've got less than 5k then it looks like they won't take anything

From your bank account. Or your company bank account. Or the total of both.

Does not mean they won't make you bankrupt.

regron
25th September 2015, 13:44
Does refuse to pay mean can't pay in HMRC ideology???

You should know by now LR, anything goes with these clowns :smile

On a more serious note. I for one wouldn't put it past them. Especially with their history of admin cock ups to date !!

MrsB1974
30th September 2015, 09:19
Thanks for sharing the article. I wonder if this would also include private pension funds? Or indeed any state pensions?

I'm a few years away from claiming the pension, and I understand HMRC can adjust your tax code so that they can recover any tax debts via your income including pension *income*, but I'm curious to know if they can just dip in to my funds and tax out what's owed on my APN...