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raphal
22nd September 2015, 08:45
Volkswagen US boss says 'we screwed up' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34322016)

BlasterBates
22nd September 2015, 08:50
Yet another excellent "speculative" buy opportunity.

SimonMac
22nd September 2015, 08:50
Odds are, if a cheat has been found out, the rest of the industry won't be too far behind developing their own

BlasterBates
22nd September 2015, 08:53
Miners getting hammered today :bang:

Buy buy buy......:music:

DimPrawn
22nd September 2015, 08:55
Miners getting hammered today :bang:

:

Maggie is back?

:eek:

DimPrawn
22nd September 2015, 08:58
Talking of these wonder diesels, Fifth gear drove the Seat Leon 1.6 TDI 110 Ecomotive Technology. Seat say it will do nearly 90mpg. 90mpg! Mind blowing.

So they drove it round and Tiff Needel managed.......19 mpg. The weird young bloke who drives like your gran mother, managed..... 30 odd mpg.

Seat....VW group.....

rl4engc
22nd September 2015, 09:02
Can't be that difficult..

if (ops.get_engine_rpm_history_data() == "EMISSIONS_TEST")
{
ops.put_engine_required_emissions("LOW");
}
else
{
ops.put_engine_required_emissions("NORMAL");
}

raphal
22nd September 2015, 09:21
"We do not and will not tolerate violations of any kind of our internal rules or of the law," Mr Winterkorn said.
(except for cars made between 2008 and 2015)..

northernladuk
22nd September 2015, 10:58
Absolutely incredible this... How did they think they were going to get away with doing this and that WHEN they got caught it could be catastrophic? I can't help but think this is going to be the tip of the iceberg.

PurpleGorilla
22nd September 2015, 11:07
What about Skoda, Seat, Audi - they have the same engines?

vetran
22nd September 2015, 11:08
You know the rest will have been at it.

tomtomagain
22nd September 2015, 11:13
Absolutely incredible this... How did they think they were going to get away with doing this and that WHEN they got caught it could be catastrophic? I can't help but think this is going to be the tip of the iceberg.

Agreed. It is an amazing example of corporate stupidity.

A group of people deliberately engineered the cars behave as they do, dozens of people would have "Signed Off" the designs, the internal testing and the whole manufacturing process and nobody thought :

"Hey, this could be viewed as fraudulent and get the whole company into deep, deep trouble".

SueEllen
22nd September 2015, 11:21
Agreed. It is an amazing example of corporate stupidity.

A group of people deliberately engineered the cars behave as they do, dozens of people would have "Signed Off" the designs, the internal testing and the whole manufacturing process and nobody thought :

"Hey, this could be viewed as fraudulent and get the whole company into deep, deep trouble".

It's called "I want MY bonus!" before I leave

DimPrawn
22nd September 2015, 11:27
Suity contracts in Germany and now this?

vetran
22nd September 2015, 11:34
Suity contracts in Germany and now this?


:rollin:

well I suppose it worked so are we sure it was Suity?

d000hg
22nd September 2015, 11:34
Maybe we won't be seeing VW/Audi making a move into F1 after all.

raphal
22nd September 2015, 11:38
Can't be that difficult..

if (ops.get_engine_rpm_history_data() == "EMISSIONS_TEST")
{
ops.put_engine_required_emissions("LOW");
}
else
{
ops.put_engine_required_emissions("NORMAL");
}

Probably they were too enthusiastic and thought lets put polymorphism into action.

AtW
22nd September 2015, 12:35
Cheap 911 Turbo S's all around next month then :smokin

original PM
22nd September 2015, 13:09
all the tests are bobbins anyway as they do not even close to represent real world experience.

BMW i8 - test figures 135 mpg
BMW i8 - real world figures 30 mpg

and it will be the same with emissions testing...

and as someone said - the people who made these decisions and signed them off did so to get their bonus with no interest in the 'future' of the company.

FatLazyContractor
22nd September 2015, 13:12
Why are contractors discussing about VW ? :ohwell

AYCOTBAC?

d000hg
22nd September 2015, 13:14
Why are contractors discussing about VW ? :ohwell

AYCOTBAC?I bet loads of contractors fit the Audi mold.

DimPrawn
22nd September 2015, 13:15
Why are contractors discussing about VW ? :ohwell


Contractors - Mostly tight dullards, driving beige diesel Passats near you.

AtW
22nd September 2015, 13:36
Contractors - Mostly tight dullards, driving beige diesel Passats near you.

Talking of Passats... will Milan be bringing a class action lawsuit against VW? A much better plan B than .NET malarkey :eyes

vetran
22nd September 2015, 14:14
Why are contractors discussing about VW ? :ohwell

AYCOTBAC?

because the wife has a TT or redesigned Beetle?

tomtomagain
22nd September 2015, 14:17
Why are contractors discussing about VW ? :ohwell

AYCOTBAC?

Because they own Porsche?

AtW
22nd September 2015, 14:34
Because they own Porsche?

Porsche owns them...

minestrone
22nd September 2015, 14:35
The developers were just following orders.

scooterscot
22nd September 2015, 15:48
Still waiting for Europe to sue Goldman Sachs for cooking Greece's books. That's got to be €80 billon or so...

AtW
22nd September 2015, 16:10
Still waiting for Europe to sue Goldman Sachs for cooking Greece's books. That's got to be €80 billon or so...

It does not work this way.

Here how it does work - USA Govt/companies/people sue EU companies and make a killing on it.

HTH

Snarf
22nd September 2015, 16:30
Talking of these wonder diesels, Fifth gear drove the Seat Leon 1.6 TDI 110 Ecomotive Technology. Seat say it will do nearly 90mpg. 90mpg! Mind blowing.

So they drove it round and Tiff Needel managed.......19 mpg. The weird young bloke who drives like your gran mother, managed..... 30 odd mpg.

Seat....VW group.....

My cars meant to do 70+
I get 45 at a push.

v8gaz
22nd September 2015, 19:30
Mine is meant to do 30. I get 15. But then I do drive it like a £&^$

SimonMac
22nd September 2015, 19:37
Talking of these wonder diesels, Fifth gear drove the Seat Leon 1.6 TDI 110 Ecomotive Technology. Seat say it will do nearly 90mpg. 90mpg! Mind blowing.

So they drove it round and Tiff Needel managed.......19 mpg. The weird young bloke who drives like your gran mother, managed..... 30 odd mpg.

Seat....VW group.....

Perhaps they have a device that means you can never get the figures quoted in the lab environment

AtW
22nd September 2015, 19:39
My car is meant to do 13 miles per gallon in city and I am actually getting just that.

HTH

xoggoth
22nd September 2015, 19:43
Forget the exact figures but my van doesn't do the MPG its says it does but I kept quiet and forgave it. I would never want to upset my little van.

darmstadt
22nd September 2015, 20:11
And more shit for VW...Sponsors (owners more like) of Wolfsburg who have just played Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga. 1-0 to Wolfsburg at halftime and finished 5-1 to Bayern with Lewandowski scoring 5 goals in 9 minutes!

AtW
22nd September 2015, 20:16
And more tulip for VW...Sponsors (owners more like) of Wolfsburg who have just played Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga. 1-0 to Wolfsburg at halftime and finished 5-1 to Bayern with Lewandowski scoring 5 goals in 9 minutes!

Lewandowski must have bought a new Passat recently...

darmstadt
22nd September 2015, 20:28
My car is meant to do 13 miles per gallon in city and I am actually getting just that.

HTH

I only get on average 14-16 but depends upon the mode I'm in (quite often its only between 9-11) and rather happily enough I averaged 27mpg on a trip to the South of France :smile

HTH

SueEllen
22nd September 2015, 20:57
My car is meant to do 13 miles per gallon in city and I am actually getting just that.

HTH

You know you are actually suppose to drive it not sit stationary in traffic?

AtW
22nd September 2015, 21:27
You know you are actually suppose to drive it not sit stationary in traffic?

:tongue

vetran
23rd September 2015, 15:20
And gone

Volkswagen chief executive Martin Winterkorn resigns - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34340997)


Volkswagen chief executive Martin Winterkorn resigns

CloudWalker
23rd September 2015, 15:26
I think London Buses cause more pollution. Do they get tested?

raphal
23rd September 2015, 15:47
I wonder how come the employees of the department involved in the development (who actually knew what they were doing) of that software kept it to themselves until found by EPA.

centurian
23rd September 2015, 16:15
The old saying "What gets measured, gets fixed" is always the case, so you might expect car manufacturers to design their cars to have optimum emissions around the parameters being tested, even if those test parameters are not representative of real drivers.

They could always say, with good justification, that if you floor the throttle and take corners like Lewis Hamilton, it will go over the limits. But as long as you drove at a steady, slow pace (which few people do), you would get high efficiency / low emissions broadly the same as the tests.

But this goes way beyond that - this is outright fraud - to design components which will ONLY activate when it is on a test bed is unbelievable.

d000hg
23rd September 2015, 16:19
If the engine has a low-emission mode that can be turned on when it thinks it's being tested, why don't they just leave it turned on?

I haven't seen a good explanation of what the tests involve that mean the engine can reduce emissions and still generate power to drive the car as normal, etc - anyone got a link or summary? Does it toggle to a different engine mode, or capture the emissions temporarily or something equally blatant?



I think buying VW stock is rather premature until all the disclosures come out and the fines are awarded.

SueEllen
23rd September 2015, 16:23
If the engine has a low-emission mode that can be turned on when it thinks it's being tested, why don't they just leave it turned on?

Because the car is less responsive.

The tests are unrealistic as the car isn't being driven properly e.g. the steering wheel is placed in a certain position.

The reason they were caught is some firm did the tests whilst driving the car properly. They found loads of cars lied about their emissions.

I know you are good at Googling so you can find it yourself. Though the info I found out was by simply watching one of the more in depth news programs.

Oh and VW are a firm who use IT agency workers in Germany. I was approached a few years ago and laughed at them because the money was low.

SimonMac
23rd September 2015, 16:23
If the engine has a low-emission mode that can be turned on when it thinks it's being tested, why don't they just leave it turned on?

I haven't seen a good explanation of what the tests involve that mean the engine can reduce emissions and still generate power to drive the car as normal, etc - anyone got a link or summary? Does it toggle to a different engine mode, or capture the emissions temporarily or something equally blatant?



I think buying VW stock is rather premature until all the disclosures come out and the fines are awarded.

I would imagine performance suffers

SueEllen
23rd September 2015, 16:28
I think London Buses cause more pollution. Do they get tested?

Yes they do get tested.

There are suppose to be battery/diesel hybrids on some London bus routes but the batteries don't work so they run on diesel.

London Buses while they are organised by TFL are actually run by different private companies with different salaries. So some companies run some gas buses, others run some battery/diesel hybrids and the majority have diesel buses in their fleets.

EternalOptimist
23rd September 2015, 16:29
Surely the real point about all this is that if you start offering subsidies, people will fight to get their snout in the trough.
It's the problem with all this green bollox. It's 100% Snout driven corruption.

PurpleGorilla
23rd September 2015, 16:39
What diesel cars are there from the EU in the U.S.?

I'm pretty sure BMW only sell petrol cars, and Skoda and seat are not sold out there.

Anyone know if Mercedes, Audi or Porsche sell diesels in the U.S.?

SueEllen
23rd September 2015, 16:42
Surely the real point about all this is that if you start offering subsidies, people will fight to get their snout in the trough.
It's the problem with all this green bollox. It's 100% Snout driven corruption.

One of the selling points is that the cars cost less to tax due to their lower emissions.

This was NO2 in the US but CO2 in the UK.

So we need to presume that all car manufacturers are lying about the amount of CO2 their cars produce.

redgiant
23rd September 2015, 16:59
What diesel cars are there from the EU in the U.S.?

I'm pretty sure BMW only sell petrol cars, and Skoda and seat are not sold out there.

Anyone know if Mercedes, Audi or Porsche sell diesels in the U.S.?

GM and Ford also sells diesels but in small numbers and mainly in pickup trucks ... I haven't seen any diesel cars apart from VWs and Audis in my short time here.

Apart from on freeways and truck stops I haven't seen diesel being sold either so I wouldn't want to own a diesel car here as it would be pain to fill up.

AtW
23rd September 2015, 17:07
So we need to presume that all car manufacturers are lying about the amount of CO2 their cars produce.

Especially Tesla :eyes

EternalOptimist
23rd September 2015, 17:12
I just sold all my shares In vw and in the Pope. I used the money to buy a six pack and a kebab

greenlake
23rd September 2015, 17:30
I used the money to buy a six pack and a kebab

Six badly-packed kebabs might have been marginally more enjoyable....

http://moventura.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/dscn0296.jpg?w=800

DimPrawn
24th September 2015, 09:57
VW Facing Largest Ever UK Class Action Lawsuit (http://news.sky.com/story/1557911/vw-facing-largest-ever-uk-class-action-lawsuit)

Told ya!

darmstadt
24th September 2015, 10:00
VW Facing Largest Ever UK Class Action Lawsuit (http://news.sky.com/story/1557911/vw-facing-largest-ever-uk-class-action-lawsuit)

Told ya!

Then so should the governments:

UK, France and Germany lobbied for flawed car emissions tests, documents reveal | Environment | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/24/uk-france-and-germany-lobbied-for-flawed-car-emissions-tests-documents-reveal)

Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP deal' | Business News | News | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/new-ttip-scandal-car-industry-buried-report-revealing-us-car-safety-flaws-10514716.html)

DodgyAgent
24th September 2015, 10:03
Volkswagen US boss says 'we screwed up' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34322016)

Good to see that next Libor traders and senior managers/directors of large multinational corporates recruitment consultants are paragons of virtue! :happy

Platypus
24th September 2015, 11:57
VW Facing Largest Ever UK Class Action Lawsuit (http://news.sky.com/story/1557911/vw-facing-largest-ever-uk-class-action-lawsuit)

Told ya!

I don't get this. Can someone explain.

Suing is for recovering a loss, if I'm not mistaken.

What loss has any individual driver suffered through this?

Or is it a case of "you said the car would do 100mpg but it only does 50mpg so I will sue you to recover the extra money I've had to spend on fuel" ?

DimPrawn
24th September 2015, 12:04
I don't get this. Can someone explain.

Suing is for recovering a loss, if I'm not mistaken.

What loss has any individual driver suffered through this?

Or is it a case of "you said the car would do 100mpg but it only does 50mpg so I will sue you to recover the extra money I've had to spend on fuel" ?

The hurt knowing that your car is putting out more plant food into the atmosphere. I'm suing for £100bn.

woohoo
24th September 2015, 12:13
I don't get this. Can someone explain.

Suing is for recovering a loss, if I'm not mistaken.

What loss has any individual driver suffered through this?

Or is it a case of "you said the car would do 100mpg but it only does 50mpg so I will sue you to recover the extra money I've had to spend on fuel" ?

erm trying to think, what about you may have paid a premium for a car that does 100mpg, but if you had to buy a car that only does 50mpg you could have spent 10k less and got a Skoda.

Or perhaps the mpg to you is so important that it goes to the heart of the contract you made when you purchased the VW. So now you want your money back and to return the car (free motoring for the time you had it).

SueEllen
24th September 2015, 17:42
I don't get this. Can someone explain.

Suing is for recovering a loss, if I'm not mistaken.

What loss has any individual driver suffered through this?

Or is it a case of "you said the car would do 100mpg but it only does 50mpg so I will sue you to recover the extra money I've had to spend on fuel" ?

The losses are:
1. Resale value -VWs, Skodas, Audis etc are now worth less
2. The loss you suffered paying more for fuel

Also companies like Zip Car advertise their hourly hire cars as being eco-friendly because they are VWs eco-whatever models. In their cases they can argue VW has damaged their reputation.

darmstadt
24th September 2015, 18:14
They knew something was up back in April: Exclusive: VW recall letters in April warned of an emissions glitch | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/24/us-usa-volkswagen-letters-exclusive-idUSKCN0RO0BD20150924)

raphal
24th September 2015, 19:06
vw.com the usa site, I was expecting an apology feed either at the bottom or top of the webpage.

PurpleGorilla
25th September 2015, 07:26
They knew something was up back in April: Exclusive: VW recall letters in April warned of an emissions glitch | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/24/us-usa-volkswagen-letters-exclusive-idUSKCN0RO0BD20150924)

This letter was sent to VW and AUDI customers!

minestrone
25th September 2015, 07:45
Surprising choice giving Robert Kilroy Silk the job of leading the company.

FatLazyContractor
25th September 2015, 07:50
Drive local, Drive Range Rover :smokin

:popcorn:

BlasterBates
25th September 2015, 07:59
VW cars aren't actually road-worthy

http://http://news.sky.com/story/1556950/vw-11m-diesels-in-global-emissions-scandal (http://news.sky.com/story/1556950/vw-11m-diesels-in-global-emissions-scandal)


[The so-called "defeat devices" meant that true emission levels, as much as 40 times the level legally allowed in the US, were hidden.

They're going to have to refund all their customers or provide them with expensive upgrades, probably world-wide.

I suspect that this was unearthed in a scrum meeting and the only way they could fix it in the next sprint was to put this software fix in.

Halo Jones
25th September 2015, 08:29
I don't get this. Can someone explain.

Suing is for recovering a loss, if I'm not mistaken.

What loss has any individual driver suffered through this?

Or is it a case of "you said the car would do 100mpg but it only does 50mpg so I will sue you to recover the extra money I've had to spend on fuel" ?

My problem is that I am limited on CO2 for car scheme / tax purposes, my car was on the limit of my allowance if the figures change it will be a PITA

Not over worried about MPG as I never believe the printed figures any way

Resale values: again not fussed about as I will do a fair bit of mileage & drive on building sites so that is what it is

vetran
25th September 2015, 08:48
Milanbenes is rich, Rich I tell you!

raphal
28th September 2015, 15:47
no surprises..

Audi and Skoda say 3.3m cars have 'cheat' emissions software - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34377443)

AtW
28th September 2015, 15:49
no surprises..

Audi and Skoda say 3.3m cars have 'cheat' emissions software - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34377443)

Ah, the benefits of sharing common components, makes the cheating that much cheaper...

darmstadt
28th September 2015, 16:39
Ah, the benefits of sharing common components, makes the cheating that much cheaper...

Does that mean that all computers with an Intel processor aren't actually doing what it says on the box? :wink

darmstadt
2nd November 2015, 19:48
Oh dear, Porsche now along with gas guzzling SUV's: VW emissions scandal widens to include Porsche claims | Business | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/02/vw-emissions-scandal-widens-to-include-porsche-claims-epa)