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pjt
6th November 2015, 14:11
If the T&S & IR35 changes come in as planned then I'm toying with the idea of working in other countries. Is anyone else considering doing the same?

At the moment I have no idea how feasible this is, a number of complications I can see...


Language Barrier
Other country's tax complications
Travel costs & times
Finding and securing roles


Does anyone have any experience taking contracts in other country's? If so how did it work out?

Another more drastic option is to actually up sticks and move to another country altogether but things aren't quite that bad yet :violin:

jamesbrown
6th November 2015, 15:08
Perhaps, although tax/regulation would be one of many factors. A lot of people will scream about moving overseas (myself included to some degree :laugh), but very few will do it in reality. I've contracted in several different countries, within the EU and outside, and tax/regulation has never been a decisive factor (either for or against). Where would you go that has lower taxes or less regulation? For example, Ireland might seem to have low headline CT and favourable business conditions, but the reality is quite different for self-employed/small outfits. Most countries have some regulations against perceived TMI (whose parameters change with the political wind), and many have less favourable regimes than the current IR35, probably more akin to son-of-IR35.

jamesbrown
6th November 2015, 15:10
Another more drastic option is to actually up sticks and move to another country altogether but things aren't quite that bad yet :violin:

I don't recall reading that upon first reply; I guess you added it....

So, if you aren't moving altogether, what exactly do you mean? You'll still be UK resident (plus, you may have issues with corporate residency in managing YourCo from elsewhere).

pjt
6th November 2015, 15:38
I don't recall reading that upon first reply; I guess you added it....

So, if you aren't moving altogether, what exactly do you mean? You'll still be UK resident (plus, you may have issues with corporate residency in managing YourCo from elsewhere).

Not saying it would be easy but possibly worth some research which is what I plan to do.

stek
6th November 2015, 16:04
I'd only do it if the rate was stellar or I was relocating to the Continent permanently, too much dual tax worry, too much to lose on Euro etc exchange/fees, too much worry about booking flights well in advance, and generally rates are worse anyway....

I did a year in Ireland on a decent rate yet didn't bank half a much in the war chest as normal.

jamesbrown
6th November 2015, 17:00
I'd only do it if the rate was stellar or I was relocating to the Continent permanently, too much dual tax worry, too much to lose on Euro etc exchange/fees, too much worry about booking flights well in advance, and generally rates are worse anyway....

I did a year in Ireland on a decent rate yet didn't bank half a much in the war chest as normal.

Yeah, agreed on Ireland, and good point on FX. The FX variations can far exceed anything that might be expected from dividend taxation etc. Take the last couple of days, for example, where Cable is down 2+%. In principle, you can negotiate any currency you want but, in practice, it's difficult.

SueEllen
6th November 2015, 17:10
Does anyone have any experience taking contracts in other country's? If so how did it work out?

Another more drastic option is to actually up sticks and move to another country altogether but things aren't quite that bad yet :violin:

Main issue is you remain a UK tax resident when you don't want to, or you aren't a UK tax resident when it's advantageous to be. You really don't want to be taxed in two countries so that means knowing and understanding their tax and residency laws around contracting as well as the UKs.

I've done a couple of EU countries. However their cost of living wasn't cheaper than the UK - it was the same. Mainly because if you want temporary accommodation e.g. don't want to live abroad permanent then you get charged a lot.

In my case the last time I managed to do it when the Euro to pound exchange was reasonable. Now there is absolutely no point working in most EU countries unless you are starting out and want the experience.

Fred Bloggs
6th November 2015, 17:40
Plus, competition for jobs is now international with some excellent overseas candidates both taking roles and depressing day rates.

WordIsBond
6th November 2015, 19:53
WFH for foreign companies.

Hard for tax man to prove SDC when you aren't even in the same country. Can't force client to talk to them. Virtually IR35 proof, if you have to meet with client the travel is foreign and thus not taxable, and if you are working from home you don't have to worry about foreign taxes.

Win.

All you have to do is figure out how to get the jobs.

oliverson
8th November 2015, 15:55
I have a place in Southern Spain. If the government kills contracting like it intends to, I'm out of here. If I'm going to be forced to pay a high level of tax, I'll pay it in Spain.

stek
8th November 2015, 16:15
I have a place in Southern Spain. If the government kills contracting like it intends to, I'm out of here. If I'm going to be forced to pay a high level of tax, I'll pay it in Spain.

I've got my eye on Georgia now, 364 day residential visa for UK'ers (and nearly everyone else), hop out, hop in, odd contact in Europe, low cost of living, nice weather, odd war on doorstep but only the same as Manchester.

Easy to hide stuff in FSU, nice Krisha (guy who sorts ur tax/income/bribes etc out), drink wine and fetch at the Kavkas women.....

dynamicsaxcontractor
11th November 2015, 15:06
If the T&S & IR35 changes come in as planned then I'm toying with the idea of working in other countries. Is anyone else considering doing the same?

At the moment I have no idea how feasible this is, a number of complications I can see...


Language Barrier
Other country's tax complications
Travel costs & times
Finding and securing roles


Does anyone have any experience taking contracts in other country's? If so how did it work out?

Another more drastic option is to actually up sticks and move to another country altogether but things aren't quite that bad yet :violin:

I am thinking the same, NZ is high on my list although I never been. Might have to start off getting a perm role to get a VISA but it is probably worth it.

MrMarkyMark
11th November 2015, 15:59
I am thinking the same, NZ is high on my list although I never been. Might have to start off getting a perm role to get a VISA but it is probably worth it.

Lovely place, lived there for 5 years, when I was younger and have been back since.
Not great for contracting out there really, although there is the usual demand from the consultancies.

This does limit where you can live, however.

Very little culture, out there, also.

Setting Up as a Contractor: set up 'your business' (http://www.potentia.co.nz/BlogNews/ContractorCorner/tabid/697/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/415/Setting-Up-as-a-Contractor-set-up-your-business.aspx#.VkNldGeBrcs)

DaveB
11th November 2015, 16:16
Have seriously been considering Malta as an option.

English speaking, Mediterranean climate, low tax regime, good connections to europe, good comms infrastructure due to prevalence of offshore gambling and finance businesses, cost of living not extortionate.

3 hours from London. £100 each way. Probably cheaper if you book ahead.

MrMarkyMark
11th November 2015, 16:27
Have seriously been considering Malta as an option.

English speaking, Mediterranean climate, low tax regime, good connections to europe, good comms infrastructure due to prevalence of offshore gambling and finance businesses, cost of living not extortionate.

3 hours from London. £100 each way. Probably cheaper if you book ahead.

Heard good things about Malta and Gozo, great fishing too.
I have just not had the chance to go yet :eyes

Zero Liability
11th November 2015, 17:07
Lovely place, lived there for 5 years, when I was younger and have been back since.
Not great for contracting out there really, although there is the usual demand from the consultancies.

This does limit where you can live, however.

Isn't it also dominated by Auckland? It does look appealing, but the fact that it has one single major city is kind of worrying, both in terms of living costs and work prospects.

meridian
11th November 2015, 20:05
Isn't it also dominated by Auckland? It does look appealing, but the fact that it has one single major city is kind of worrying, both in terms of living costs and work prospects.

It can be, but there are opportunities in Hamilton, Wellington, and Christchurch. Realistically, though, you would be better off considering it as a lifestyle choice rather than a place where you're going to earn a fortune.

Have a look here for a flavour of what's available:
http://www.seek.co.nz

MrMarkyMark
12th November 2015, 08:40
It can be, but there are opportunities in Hamilton, Wellington, and Christchurch. Realistically, though, you would be better off considering it as a lifestyle choice rather than a place where you're going to earn a fortune.

Have a look here for a flavour of what's available:
Jobs on SEEK - New Zealand's no.1 Employment, Career and Recruitment site (http://www.seek.co.nz)

+1, I was going to reply on similar lines.

Australia is probably a better place, if you wish to rely on contracting.
BI skills are some of the most sought after in that part of the world.

Zero Liability
12th November 2015, 09:30
I wasn't necessarily thinking about it in terms of contracting but clearly I need to research the topic more. Never been to either country.

What do you guys think of Canada btw?

MrMarkyMark
12th November 2015, 09:37
I wasn't necessarily thinking about it in terms of contracting but clearly I need to research the topic more. Never been to either country.

What do you guys think of Canada btw?

Heard generally good things about Canada.
Both my missus and my brother and his wife have gone, they all enjoyed it.

A fair amount of contract work there, as far as I'm aware.

DaveB
12th November 2015, 09:42
I wasn't necessarily thinking about it in terms of contracting but clearly I need to research the topic more. Never been to either country.

What do you guys think of Canada btw?

Con's:

Cold
Bears
French

Pro's:

Not America

psychocandy
12th November 2015, 10:10
Heard generally good things about Canada.
Both my missus and my brother and his wife have gone, they all enjoyed it.

A fair amount of contract work there, as far as I'm aware.

Whats the visa situation like for Canada?

Always fancied US but I understand contract work is virtualyl impossible because of the need to get an employer to sponsor the visa.

MrMarkyMark
12th November 2015, 10:12
Whats the visa situation like for Canada?

Always fancied US but I understand contract work is virtualyl impossible because of the need to get an employer to sponsor the visa.

Contract working is considered the poor mans choice, compared to Perm, in the US.

stek
12th November 2015, 10:16
Whats the visa situation like for Canada?

Always fancied US but I understand contract work is virtualyl impossible because of the need to get an employer to sponsor the visa.

Not sure there's any countries left that will issue work permits that earned tied to a sponsor. UK used to, Tier 1 General, that's been closed for years. So contracting is more or less a closed door for a foreigner without dual nationality or enable to use EU rights.

psychocandy
12th November 2015, 10:55
Contract working is considered the poor mans choice, compared to Perm, in the US.

So I heard....

MrMarkyMark
12th November 2015, 10:58
So I heard....

Quality was rubbish, as well, in my discipline and related.
I had 5 US based contractors, reporting into me, when I was at BNYM.

oliverson
12th November 2015, 21:05
I wasn't necessarily thinking about it in terms of contracting but clearly I need to research the topic more. Never been to either country.

What do you guys think of Canada btw?

Lined up 7 interviews in New Zealand after the dotcom crash. I got an offer for a permie role in Christchurch but it never came good, the owner of the business (iTouch Mobility) wasn't in a position to offer anybody a role as he'd just sold the business and was seeing out his tenure. Kind of glad that happened because I then went into contracting and of course the Christchurch earthquake happened. NZ is a beautiful, beautiful place, especially the south island, but there's no real contracting market there (a bit like the UK in the next couple of years). Hence the reason the London market is infested with kiwi's all with a chip on their shoulder, out to try and prove something. I liken it to small dog syndrome. :-D

redgiant
12th November 2015, 21:15
Contract working is considered the poor mans choice, compared to Perm, in the US.

Not true - There are plenty of freelancers in the US across many industries. It's worthwhile especially if you have health insurance already.

I'm one of them now :)


Quality was rubbish, as well, in my discipline and related.
I had 5 US based contractors, reporting into me, when I was at BNYM.

You can get bad contractors anywhere in the world. If they were reporting into you then why not give them the snip and hire someone more capable.

Zero Liability
12th November 2015, 21:19
Also a bit concerned about the fact that NZ and Australia (and Canada) are more exposed to China's faltering, volatile economic performance than the UK is, as they were all major beneficiaries of the commodities boom.

I really do fancy the US, but this (https://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/us-taxes-abroad-dummies/) is what would put me off it if I were to consider relocation there, in the event that I later wanted to leave.

At any rate, it's all rather moot for the time being as I want to change my skillset first before moving, which will take a year or two to get started.

redgiant
12th November 2015, 21:28
Also a bit concerned about the fact that NZ and Australia (and Canada) are more exposed to China's faltering, volatile economic performance than the UK is, as they were all major beneficiaries of the commodities boom.

I really do fancy the US, but this (https://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/us-taxes-abroad-dummies/) is what would put me off it if I were to consider relocation there, in the event that I later wanted to leave.

At any rate, it's all rather moot for the time being as I want to change my skillset first before moving, which will take a year or two to get started.

You can always give up your US green card if you have no intention of working back in the US when you leave. If you later returned to work in the US you would need to go through the whole visa application process again though.

Zero Liability
12th November 2015, 21:32
You can always give up your US green card if you have no intention of working back in the US when you leave. If you later returned to work in the US you would need to go through the whole visa application process again though.

Is there any cost in doing so, as there is in relinquishing citizenship?

Which part of the US do you work in, if you don't my asking?

redgiant
13th November 2015, 23:14
Is there any cost in doing so, as there is in relinquishing citizenship?

Which part of the US do you work in, if you don't my asking?

Not that I am aware of - a green card isn't the same as citizenship. I would seek professional advice though but this article covers some of the points to be aware of from what I have heard through my UK/US accountants - 15 Things to Consider Before you Give Up Green Card Voluntarily - VisaPro Immigration Articles (http://www.visapro.com/Immigration-Articles/?a=1452&z=38)

I am working in the greater New York City area for a UK/US client.

zemoxyl
14th November 2015, 01:47
Does anyone have any experience taking contracts in other country's? If so how did it work out?
:

Yip. worked out brill, thanks,

MrMarkyMark
16th November 2015, 08:47
Not true - There are plenty of freelancers in the US across many industries. It's worthwhile especially if you have health insurance already.

That's why I used the word considered (a poor mans option), I know and have worked with plenty of people doing it. I certainly didn't say it was not worthwhile.


You can get bad contractors anywhere in the world. If they were reporting into you then why not give them the snip and hire someone more capable.

Again, I said, in my discipline.
Unfortunately, it is a known thing, getting contractors in NYC, in my discipline, is very difficult.
I should know, I have been in the position of recruiting in NYC, on at least 4 occasions, furthermore a colleague has just found exactly the same.

Even the software vendor would agree, in particular, when it comes to NYC.

psychocandy
16th November 2015, 10:08
Not true - There are plenty of freelancers in the US across many industries. It's worthwhile especially if you have health insurance already.

I'm one of them now :)




But you need a VISA?

NickNick
16th November 2015, 13:40
I did a year in Ireland on a decent rate yet didn't bank half a much in the war chest as normal.

I did six months in Dublin and lived like a king. Walked away with some nice glassware as a present from the client, some new luggage and an extra three stone around my waist. No extra cash in the warchest after that one.

The flights were the killer for me though, out and back every week.

MrMarkyMark
16th November 2015, 13:45
an extra three stone around my waist.

Had a similar experience, working away, in Belfast, as the client paid all expenses on top :eyes

NickNick
17th November 2015, 11:52
Had a similar experience, working away, in Belfast, as the client paid all expenses on top :eyes

Same for me wrt expenses.