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LisaContractorUmbrella
13th November 2015, 11:14
We don't know what's going to happen on 25th November when the Autumn Statement is published but I think we're all agreed that our industry will be hit in some way - whether it will be a swift uppercut or a knock out punch we don't know :eyes Whatever happens I really think that our voice needs to be heard by the hatstands in Government.

Many of you were kind enough to take the time to complete the AUCAE survey that we launched following the T&S consultation and we sent over 700 responses to HMRC and Downing Street as a result. We want to do the same thing again - this time using the wonders of social media. Lucy has set up a Thunderclap campaign aimed at spreading the word across all social media platforms (set to go live at 12.30 on the 25th). We need to get support from 100 contractors for the campaign to go live so we would urge you to follow this link https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/34494-contractors-stand-together and have your say using the hashtag #AS2015Contractors - this will ensure that all your responses don't get lost amongst all the other drivel.

You don't need to wait until 25th November before having your say and the more of you that respond (and your wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, cousins, aunts, grandparents, vague aquaintences, enemies etc) the louder our voice will be!! If this does all go to hell, let's go out with a bang and not a whimper :fight:

LisaContractorUmbrella
13th November 2015, 14:38
After just over 3 hours we have reached out to 46,842 people through Thunderclap

cojak
13th November 2015, 14:41
Stickied.

LisaContractorUmbrella
16th November 2015, 09:04
Our social reach has now exceeded 55,000 and we are at 41% of target - if you haven't done so already (and a big :hug: to all of you who have) please visit https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/34494-contractors-stand-together

webberg
16th November 2015, 10:32
We have encouraged all BG members to support this.

LisaContractorUmbrella
16th November 2015, 11:24
We have encouraged all BG members to support this.

Thank you - very kind :hug:

Danglekt
16th November 2015, 11:37
for the uninitiated, what is thunderclap, and how does it work? I assume it allows you to post up stuff onto my facebook/twitter etc?

I'd like to know what it is going to say before signing up to be honest.

Might have misunderstood...

LisaContractorUmbrella
16th November 2015, 11:41
for the uninitiated, what is thunderclap, and how does it work? I assume it allows you to post up stuff onto my facebook/twitter etc?

I'd like to know what it is going to say before signing up to be honest.

Might have misunderstood...

I have no technical knowledge whatsoever so I've asked Lucy, my marketing director, to give you some more info - she'll be along soon :smile

TykeMerc
16th November 2015, 11:49
I would, but I don't use any of the systems to sign up from, sorry that's the first one of your surveys and the likes that I can't support other than morally.

mudskipper
16th November 2015, 12:44
for the uninitiated, what is thunderclap, and how does it work? I assume it allows you to post up stuff onto my facebook/twitter etc?

I'd like to know what it is going to say before signing up to be honest.

Might have misunderstood...

+1 :)

LisaContractorUmbrella
16th November 2015, 13:04
I would, but I don't use any of the systems to sign up from, sorry that's the first one of your surveys and the likes that I can't support other than morally.

That's OK - it's just nice to know you're with us in spirit :hug:

midlandlass
16th November 2015, 13:44
AUCAE has set up the Thunderclap for contractors to gain maximum social vocal impact during the Autumn Statement 2015.

If any of you have been sad enough to watch the twitter feed during previous statements, you will see how easy it is for your message to get lost :ohwell AUCAE wanted to make sure that those in the right places realise the impact the proposed changes will have on the industry, so by supporting the cause, we can speak together (under one hashtag #AS2015Contractors) that way we don't get lost in the clutter!

We gain maximum social reach using Thunderclap... bit of a pyramid effect really, with 49 supporters at the moment our social reach is now at nearly 60,000 people that is across Twitter, Facebook and Tumblir, but we need this to be more.

Providing we hit our target to get just 100 supporters (ie you guys), then on the 25th November at 12.30pm, our message will be "thunderclapped" across social media at the same time - hopefully highlighting to those who need to know that this matters!!! :spank:

I will make sure from this end that those who need to know of the hashtag, will know of the hashtag!

Hope this helps explain.

LisaContractorUmbrella
17th November 2015, 11:28
Quick update - we're at 62% of our target with a reach of almost 70,000 :smile

LisaContractorUmbrella
18th November 2015, 07:41
78% of target with a reach of over 112,000 :banana::banana:

We only need 22 more people to support us and we will be able to "thunderclap" contractors views on the Autumn Statement on 25th November - all at the same time - something to make HMG sit up and take notice :happy

BoredBloke
18th November 2015, 09:59
I'm amazed that we only have 80 out of the 100 needed. Surely it's in the interests of every contractor to sign this and show support. It takes no time to do also.

PurpleGorilla
18th November 2015, 10:59
Great idea :-)

midlandlass
18th November 2015, 11:45
I'm amazed that we only have 80 out of the 100 needed. Surely it's in the interests of every contractor to sign this and show support. It takes no time to do also.

OK I have been plastering it all over social media and for some reason everyone seems happy to share or like or retweet - but trying to get people to click on the link to register their support appears to be like :igmc: - any marvellous suggestions to get this to work or am I just being blonde?????

LucidDementia
18th November 2015, 11:49
OK I have been plastering it all over social media and for some reason everyone seems happy to share or like or retweet - but trying to get people to click on the link to register their support appears to be like :igmc: - any marvellous suggestions to get this to work or am I just being blonde?????


I would spam it to each subforum right now. Some folk just won't have seen it.

DaveB
18th November 2015, 12:00
OK I have been plastering it all over social media and for some reason everyone seems happy to share or like or retweet - but trying to get people to click on the link to register their support appears to be like :igmc: - any marvellous suggestions to get this to work or am I just being blonde?????

To be fair it does initially appear to simply be a statement you are making now. It's not obvious that you want people to actually click through and sign up. It took me a minute to realise and do it. If people are doing the usual social media thing of simply hitting Like and moving on they may not realise.

filthy1980
18th November 2015, 13:04
i'm in

think i'm 90 out off 100

just 10 more

Lightwave
18th November 2015, 13:49
I'm not convinced that aligning ourselves with umbrella companies is a good idea at all.

northernladuk
18th November 2015, 14:06
I'm not convinced that aligning ourselves with umbrella companies is a good idea at all.

If the worst happens how can it be harmful. I also don't think we are aligning ourselves with them as Lisa is personally taking a lot of time to do this for us so not like we are getting in bed with the umbrellas.

Also these changes will have some very serious consequences to everyone related to us as well so why got everyone impacted not just coal face contractors? It would be nice if the agents had chipped in as well rather than thinking of themselves.

Lightwave
18th November 2015, 14:38
If the worst happens how can it be harmful. I also don't think we are aligning ourselves with them as Lisa is personally taking a lot of time to do this for us so not like we are getting in bed with the umbrellas.

Also these changes will have some very serious consequences to everyone related to us as well so why got everyone impacted not just coal face contractors? It would be nice if the agents had chipped in as well rather than thinking of themselves.
Is it not Umbrella Cos that have caused a lot of the issues with 'contractors' who are really just agency staff taking the mick on travel expenses?
Umbrella users are easy targets in the 'not proper business' stakes. I don't wish to be categorised with them myself.

It would indeed be nice if the agencies were more use to us, but most of the agencies in Electronics seem to also deal with factory staff etc in bulk, so are not solely in the professional freelancer market. Really this ought to be driven by some sort of Contractors Group for Professionals?

northernladuk
18th November 2015, 14:41
Is it not Umbrella Cos that have caused a lot of the issues with 'contractors' who are really just agency staff taking the mick on travel expenses?
Umbrella users are easy targets in the 'not proper business' stakes. I don't wish to be categorised with them myself.

It would indeed be nice if the agencies were more use to us, but most of the agencies in Electronics seem to also deal with factory staff etc in bulk, so are not solely in the professional freelancer market. Really this ought to be driven by some sort of Contractors Group for Professionals?

:facepalm:

LucidDementia
18th November 2015, 14:44
:facepalm:

+1

Actually make it a double.

This is about making an impact on social media to raise awareness, you're not signing up to a professional body that HMRC are going to be looking at closely.

LisaContractorUmbrella
18th November 2015, 14:48
Is it not Umbrella Cos that have caused a lot of the issues with 'contractors' who are really just agency staff taking the mick on travel expenses?
Umbrella users are easy targets in the 'not proper business' stakes. I don't wish to be categorised with them myself.

It would indeed be nice if the agencies were more use to us, but most of the agencies in Electronics seem to also deal with factory staff etc in bulk, so are not solely in the professional freelancer market. Really this ought to be driven by some sort of Contractors Group for Professionals?

Actually the Government has had a thing about contractors since before 1999 (and there were very few brollies around then)- why do you think IR35 was introduced in the first place? The number of umbrella companies has grown alongside the number of PSC's as demand for contractors has increased. Yes, there are some companies that call themselves umbrella companies that have operated avoidance schemes and T&S schemes (pay day by pay day) but, by the same token, there have also been contractors who have taken dividends from Ltd Co's who were maybe not entitled to do so under IR35 rules.

This is not about taking sides, it's not in my interests to fight against the changes to IR35 that could be introduced, it's about the industry working together to protect itself - that's all we're trying to achieve - if you don't want to be part of it it's no problem - I believe in free will but you should understand that this about cohesion and not division. In my mind there are not PSC contractors and brolly contractors there are just contractors.....and then there are temps and the high proliferation of them moving into or being forced into the contracting world is a big contributing factor to the problems we are experiencing now

Lightwave
18th November 2015, 15:06
I'm well aware of that, I had already been a contractor for some years when IR35 came along.

Unfortunately I think this is absolutely going to be about differentiation, just as in 1999 there was a genuine difference between those of us who had chosen to be properly freelance intending to have many clients, and those who were being coerced into self employment for one 'client'.

You need to consider how this looks to the Daily Mule and Grauniad readers, it seems that is the particular court of public opinion being used.

"Yes, there are some companies that call themselves umbrella companies that have operated avoidance schemes and T&S schemes " yet 'all umbrella co's are equal'?

We need to think how this kind of thing looks to outsiders.

northernladuk
18th November 2015, 15:26
We need to think how this kind of thing looks to outsiders.

Indeed but showing this affects a whole raft of supporting industries including umbrellas goes a long way to prove this isn't just a gang of tax dodging contractors surely?

TheFaQQer
18th November 2015, 15:31
Is it not Umbrella Cos that have caused a lot of the issues with 'contractors' who are really just agency staff taking the mick on travel expenses?

Yes - that's why PSCs weren't in the original discussion document on travel and subsistence.

Which then gave HMRC the ability to say "no PSC has complained" when they moved to consultation from discussion.

LisaContractorUmbrella
18th November 2015, 15:41
I'm well aware of that, I had already been a contractor for some years when IR35 came along.

Unfortunately I think this is absolutely going to be about differentiation, just as in 1999 there was a genuine difference between those of us who had chosen to be properly freelance intending to have many clients, and those who were being coerced into self employment for one 'client'.

You need to consider how this looks to the Daily Mule and Grauniad readers, it seems that is the particular court of public opinion being used.

"Yes, there are some companies that call themselves umbrella companies that have operated avoidance schemes and T&S schemes " yet 'all umbrella co's are equal'?

We need to think how this kind of thing looks to outsiders.

The All Umbrella Companies are Equal name came from Animal Farm (the George Orwell version :eyes) - the rest of the quote is 'but some are more equal than others' :wink

fannyadams
18th November 2015, 15:45
Yes - that's why PSCs weren't in the original discussion document on travel and subsistence.

Which then gave HMRC the ability to say "no PSC has complained" when they moved to consultation from discussion.

"PSCs" were added in response to the risk that umbrella users would incorporate. So yes, with greatest respect to Lisa for the miles she's putting in, I don't believe that "we're all in the same boat" helps those of us operating through limited companies.

LucidDementia
18th November 2015, 15:47
"PSCs" were added in response to the risk that umbrella users would incorporate. So yes, with greatest respect to Lisa for the miles she's putting in, I don't believe that "we're all in the same boat" helps those of us operating through limited companies.

Perhaps not, but "we can all make a big noise about this together" makes perfect sense.

LisaContractorUmbrella
18th November 2015, 15:48
"PSCs" were added in response to the risk that umbrella users would incorporate. So yes, with greatest respect to Lisa for the miles she's putting in, I don't believe that "we're all in the same boat" helps those of us operating through limited companies.

That's fair enough but who else do you have fighting for you?

TheFaQQer
18th November 2015, 15:55
The All Umbrella Companies are Equal name came from Animal Farm (the George Orwell version :eyes) - the rest of the quote is 'but some are more equal than others' :wink

Relying on the press to visit the website, read the rest of the name, and understand the implication might be a little over-optimistic.

I'll confess to thinking that the name was All Umbrella Companies Aren't Equal.

midlandlass
18th November 2015, 15:56
+1

Actually make it a double.

This is about making an impact on social media to raise awareness, you're not signing up to a professional body that HMRC are going to be looking at closely.

With a social reach of 115,000 people from only 92 sign ups - surely this is a way to shout out and be heard :eek

TheFaQQer
18th November 2015, 15:57
With a social reach of 115,000 people from only 92 sign ups - surely this is a way to shout out and be heard :eek

40000 come from Lisa's brother :)

mudskipper
18th November 2015, 16:01
That's fair enough but who else do you have fighting for you?

That's why I'm an IPSE member. I know they get a knocking on here, but having spent Friday evening and Saturday at a meeting with the Board, senior management team and the CC, all anyone was talking about are the consultations, the rumoured 1 month thing, and the effect on our industry. They are representing our views - if they're not shouting, it's because they don't have to; they have direct access to the people who are listening. I agree that this dilutes the message they send to members, and I think there is a problem with reconciling the two, but I am confident that they are getting heard - whether or not they can actually influence remains to be seen, but I'm not writing them off.

Edit: Almost forgot the MGM code! Am slacking. IPSEMGM0004 ;)

Edit2: That's not to say I don't think there's a place for shouting as well! :)

midlandlass
18th November 2015, 16:07
40000 come from Lisa's brother :)

I obviously need more "social" friends :ohwell

northernladuk
18th November 2015, 16:09
40000 come from Lisa's brother :)

And if he marked any posts from there as private it does really expand the reach much :(

DaveB
18th November 2015, 16:11
That's why I'm an IPSE member. I know they get a knocking on here, but having spent Friday evening and Saturday at a meeting with the Board, senior management team and the CC, all anyone was talking about are the consultations, the rumoured 1 month thing, and the effect on our industry. They are representing our views - if they're not shouting, it's because they don't have to; they have direct access to the people who are listening. I agree that this dilutes the message they send to members, and I think there is a problem with reconciling the two, but I am confident that they are getting heard - whether or not they can actually influence remains to be seen, but I'm not writing them off.

Edit: Almost forgot the MGM code! Am slacking. IPSEMGM0004 ;)

How about getting Lisa's social media piece on the IPSE forums. One thing IPSE dont appear to make much use of is Social Media and this is a way to do it without having to do any heavy lifting up front.

midlandlass
18th November 2015, 16:14
How about getting Lisa's social media piece on the IPSE forums. One thing IPSE dont appear to make much use of is Social Media and this is a way to do it without having to do any heavy lifting up front.

I will see if I can get something on there - I have also tweeted them to see if they would consider working together with AUCAE but no response yet :frown

northernladuk
18th November 2015, 16:20
I obviously need more "social" friends :ohwell

Anyone associated with Jaffa cake manufacture and distribution don't count.

tarbera
18th November 2015, 16:36
happy to tunderclap with you - anytime

:nerd

midlandlass
18th November 2015, 16:57
happy to tunderclap with you - anytime

:nerd

:yay: love it

TheFaQQer
18th November 2015, 17:16
:yay: love it

Before you posted that - did you check the definition in the Urban Dictionary?

Thunderclapping with tarbera isn't as good as it sounds (or so I'm told)

northernladuk
18th November 2015, 18:09
happy to tunderclap with you - anytime

:yay: love it

Oh lordy!!!! :rollin:

After checking Urban Dictionary that has to be the funniest exchange I've seen on the forums in a long time. It was worth the strange stares for laughing out loud in the office and 20 mins of stifled laughter. POTY nomination for me LOL..

:rollin:

midlandlass
18th November 2015, 18:33
Lol Lisa did warn me about you lot!! Maybe I should run for the hills. Second thoughts based on your sense of humour maybe the campaign should have ran with the slogan "Clap for Contractors!" May have provoked an even better response!!

mudskipper
18th November 2015, 18:38
Lol Lisa did warn me about you lot!! Maybe I should run for the hills. Second thoughts based on your sense of humour maybe the campaign should have ran with the slogan "Clap for Contractors!" May have provoked an even better response!!

It's OK - they're IT geeks; they're not used to talking to real, live women.

northernladuk
18th November 2015, 18:38
Lol Lisa did warn me about you lot!! Maybe I should run for the hills. Second thoughts based on your sense of humour maybe the campaign should have ran with the slogan "Clap for Contractors!" May have provoked an even better response!!

You'll be fine. Just don't accept any offers of a hot lunch....

midlandlass
18th November 2015, 18:44
You need to get out more!!!! [emoji6] and stop lowering the tone of this serious thread!!!

mudskipper
18th November 2015, 19:00
...and stop lowering the tone of this serious thread!!!

Are you new round here?

midlandlass
18th November 2015, 19:05
Trying to be professional or I will get a slap from Lisa [emoji23] and won't be allowed to come back out and play.

LisaContractorUmbrella
19th November 2015, 08:32
Social reach - 123,700 :yay

Supporters - 110 :banana:



[Note to self: check urban dictionary before launching any campaign and before posting on CUK........ever ]

BrilloPad
19th November 2015, 08:34
Trying to be professional or I will get a slap from Lisa [emoji23] and won't be allowed to come back out and play.

Can I watch?

LisaContractorUmbrella
19th November 2015, 09:16
Can I watch?

Cheeky monkey :spank:

LisaContractorUmbrella
20th November 2015, 08:52
131 responses with a reach of over 30,000 :banana:

Big :hug: to everyone that has taken the time and trouble to register their support and to those that haven't :poke:

LisaContractorUmbrella
23rd November 2015, 13:21
Quick update - 161 supporters with a reach of over 151,000 :yay::yay:

LisaContractorUmbrella
24th November 2015, 11:59
174 - reach of over 154,000 :banana::yay: https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/34494-contractors-stand-together

Thanks to everyone who's supported contractors standing together :hug:

midlandlass
25th November 2015, 10:19
Just a quick :poke: to remind you all that if you are sad enough to be on social media today to make sure you use the hashtag #AS2015Contractors, that way we can track all your responses during the Autumn Statement at 12.30!

northernladuk
25th November 2015, 10:28
Just a quick :poke: to remind you all that if you are sad enough to be on social media today to make sure you use the hashtag #AS2015Contractors, that way we can track all your responses during the Autumn Statement at 12.30!

Couldn't you do a search instead? #AS2015Contractors

midlandlass
25th November 2015, 10:35
Couldn't you do a search instead? #AS2015Contractors

Don't get all techie on me!

northernladuk
25th November 2015, 11:04
Don't get all techie on me!

You checked the Urban Dictionary before posting that???

LisaContractorUmbrella
25th November 2015, 11:10
We've got an hour to go and we have 192 supporters - anyone who hasn't contributed please please please help us to get to 200 https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/34494-contractors-stand-together

midlandlass
25th November 2015, 11:12
You checked the Urban Dictionary before posting that???

"A person that is extremely knowledgeable about Information Technology." :tongue

TheFaQQer
25th November 2015, 11:26
We've got an hour to go and we have 192 supporters - anyone who hasn't contributed please please please help us to get to 200 https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/34494-contractors-stand-together

What's the tweet going to say?

midlandlass
25th November 2015, 12:22
What's the tweet going to say?
Join our social campaign today to make sure your voice is heard. Use #AS2015Contractors to respond together today!

midlandlass
25th November 2015, 12:39
Bring on the comments, but...

We have Thunderclapped :wink

northernladuk
25th November 2015, 12:45
Bring on the comments, but...

We have Thunderclapped :wink

I can't stop thinking about the urban dictionary definition. Can we not use that term some how :(

Got my post on FB though so its working

Bluespider
25th November 2015, 14:43
I can't stop thinking about the urban dictionary definition. Can we not use that term some how :(


I just looked that up...

Totally skewed the whole enterprise for me now... :emb

Mark2009
15th April 2017, 20:01
Thursday 7 May 2020 next election Jeremy Corbyn will be removed as leader after the may elections, If labour pick another lefty nutter PM May will destroy this county.

Mark2009
15th April 2017, 20:26
We don't know what's going to happen on 25th November when the Autumn Statement is published but I think we're all agreed that our industry will be hit in some way - whether it will be a swift uppercut or a knock out punch we don't know :eyes Whatever happens I really think that our voice needs to be heard by the hatstands in Government.

Many of you were kind enough to take the time to complete the AUCAE survey that we launched following the T&S consultation and we sent over 700 responses to HMRC and Downing Street as a result. We want to do the same thing again - this time using the wonders of social media. Lucy has set up a Thunderclap campaign aimed at spreading the word across all social media platforms (set to go live at 12.30 on the 25th). We need to get support from 100 contractors for the campaign to go live so we would urge you to follow this link https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/34494-contractors-stand-together and have your say using the hashtag #AS2015Contractors - this will ensure that all your responses don't get lost amongst all the other drivel.

You don't need to wait until 25th November before having your say and the more of you that respond (and your wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, cousins, aunts, grandparents, vague aquaintences, enemies etc) the louder our voice will be!! If this does all go to hell, let's go out with a bang and not a whimper :fight:Blanket ban on umbrella payroll system

cojak
15th April 2017, 21:42
Blanket ban on umbrella payroll system

They are used by people who have to use them. Some of them even want to use them. Dream on.

Mark2009
17th April 2017, 20:56
I would not touch umbrella companies, why should the person pay the company NI.

Mark2009
17th April 2017, 20:59
They are used by people who have to use them. Some of them even want to use them. Dream on.
They come and they go, off shore was finished by the government, buying a share in a limited company was finished by the government and cis was finished by the government but was brought back because people refused to us umbrell.
Why should people pay 20-30 pounds per week to get there wages, you tell me.

SussexSeagull
18th April 2017, 00:58
They come and they go, off shore was finished by the government, buying a share in a limited company was finished by the government and cis was finished by the government but was brought back because people refused to us umbrell.
Why should people pay 20-30 pounds per week to get there wages, you tell me.

Because some people don't want the hassle of a Limited Company.

cojak
18th April 2017, 06:19
I would not touch umbrella companies, why should the person pay the company NI.

Then take a permanent job or go Ltd.

TheFaQQer
18th April 2017, 08:32
Why should people pay 20-30 pounds per week to get there wages, you tell me.

Because they work in the public sector, have been deemed inside IR35 and either (a) they have no choice in the matter, (b) they want to pay into their pension plan via salary sacrifice, (c) both of those.

TheFaQQer
18th April 2017, 08:33
Why should people pay 20-30 pounds per week to get there wages, you tell me.

Because they work outside the public sector, but are still caught by IR35, have little to gain from the VAT FRS changes this tax year, and therefore don't want the hassle of running a limited company.

DaveB
18th April 2017, 08:48
They come and they go, off shore was finished by the government, buying a share in a limited company was finished by the government and cis was finished by the government but was brought back because people refused to us umbrell.
Why should people pay 20-30 pounds per week to get there wages, you tell me.

Same reason most people running a Ltd pay their accountants that amount each month. They don't want the headaches of doing the paperwork and risking screwing it up.

DaveB
18th April 2017, 08:52
Blanket ban on umbrella payroll system

Why would they do that? It guarantees that tax is paid on all money earned. HMRC would love it if every contractor had to go brolly. They'd all become employees on full PAYE.