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pjt
19th November 2015, 10:26
I've raised concerns, the feeling here from senior management is that anything brought in to kill off contracting will fail. I know its what we already think but its good to here it from the clients side also.

javadude
20th November 2015, 11:21
Mine's a direct client in another EU country that I work for remotely from the UK. How the possible changes affect my contract is anyone's guess. Presumably the government can't force them to take me onto payroll, but then as I'm in the UK does that mean that if I fail the tests the contract has to be terminated? It's all a stupid, ill thought out mess, whatever the details.

WordIsBond
20th November 2015, 14:14
Mine's a direct client in another EU country that I work for remotely from the UK. How the possible changes affect my contract is anyone's guess. Presumably the government can't force them to take me onto payroll, but then as I'm in the UK does that mean that if I fail the tests the contract has to be terminated? It's all a stupid, ill thought out mess, whatever the details.
I'm similar, though because I have multiple clients I may be ok.

I'm guessing they will say if you fail their test that you will have to operate IR35 yourself. But that would be worse than contractors who are on client payrolls here, where the client pays the NI. So if we're lucky, they will say that you have to operate IR35 but not the employer NI portion of it, since employer NI is not payable for non-UK employers. It would be perverse to say that a "disguised employee" has to pay more tax than a real employee.

Actually, they may just ignore people like us, because there are so few of us, and because most doing contracting work for foreign companies with no UK presence are probably not under SDC anyway. I'm not. And how would they prove me wrong if I say I'm not? My contracts are pretty clear on those points.

Write clear contracts, and carry on invoicing.

northernladuk
20th November 2015, 14:27
I've given mine the heads up because I work away from home so the current rate means I won't be there past April if T&S hits. He's got time now to think about it. They can either put a plan in to replace me or heads up my rate will have to go up.
Someone suggested I'd shot myself in the foot but I see it as taking a calculated risk. They aren't going to get anyone in too quick due to the problems we've been having with recruitment already and at worst they may find someone and give me notice a month or two early but that's really no skin off my nose. I really don't think it will happen either.

Haven't really mentioned the IR35 thing though. To early for that and would just be scaremongering.

DaveB
20th November 2015, 14:32
I've given mine the heads up because I work away from home so the current rate means I won't be there past April if T&S hits. He's got time now to think about it. They can either put a plan in to replace me or heads up my rate will have to go up.
Someone suggested I'd shot myself in the foot but I see it as taking a calculated risk. They aren't going to get anyone in too quick due to the problems we've been having with recruitment already and at worst they may find someone and give me notice a month or two early but that's really no skin off my nose. I really don't think it will happen either.

Haven't really mentioned the IR35 thing though. To early for that and would just be scaremongering.

Going to wait till after the AS before I do that. At least that way I can give them some facts. Bit otherwise, yes, will potentially be the same situation with Client A.

MarkT
20th November 2015, 14:37
Going to wait till after the AS before I do that. At least that way I can give them some facts. Bit otherwise, yes, will potentially be the same situation with Client A.

I'm in a contract with one insurance company running a PMO for a portfolio of business change projects. My boss is a permacontractor and some of people there have been contracting to them for up to 14 years, running projects one after another. Those guys work from home a lot.

I am here until October 16. I mentioned it to the Head of HR an hour ago on Lync, he took 10 mins to reply, I think he had passed out. He said he was shocked and rather worried. They have 50% of their project people as contractors and have no budget or facility to take them in as FTC or Perm.

It did feel good to share the pain. :tongue

GB9
20th November 2015, 23:28
I'm in a contract with one insurance company running a PMO for a portfolio of business change projects. My boss is a permacontractor and some of people there have been contracting to them for up to 14 years, running projects one after another. Those guys work from home a lot.

I am here until October 16. I mentioned it to the Head of HR an hour ago on Lync, he took 10 mins to reply, I think he had passed out. He said he was shocked and rather worried. They have 50% of their project people as contractors and have no budget or facility to take them in as FTC or Perm.

It did feel good to share the pain. :tongue

That's similar to where I am. The client is generally excellent. They bring in contractors for a specific project and then they go again. They have a few permtractors but not too many.

Contracts are back to back with the agency. I know from having had one changed and having to sit down with the client's procurement team to get a change made.

The client doesn't want lots of on the books contractors. It wants flexibility. If the T&S changes come in it will lose some good resource very quickly unless rates increase. If it has to have them on the books it will grind to a halt very quickly.

I have spoken with a couple of managers there and they have been surprisingly helpful. However, it may be well out of the client's hands.

meridian
21st November 2015, 10:22
14 years? FFS. It's exactly those kinds of permatractors that Gideon's after.

The client can arrange their affairs however they like, and if they want to pay a higher rate for a long term temporary employee then that's their prerogative, but the "contractors" would find it very difficult to defend any business test. HMRC are missing out on employer's NICs and the temporary employees should probably be under IR35.

BrilloPad
21st November 2015, 10:26
After 14 years I reckon you can claim employment rights. Would be an interesting court case.

Zero Liability
21st November 2015, 12:17
14 years? FFS. It's exactly those kinds of permatractors that Gideon's after.

The client can arrange their affairs however they like, and if they want to pay a higher rate for a long term temporary employee then that's their prerogative, but the "contractors" would find it very difficult to defend any business test. HMRC are missing out on employer's NICs and the temporary employees should probably be under IR35.

I think in that kind of scenario multiple clients could be a mitigating factor, as some audit firms have had relationships with their clients that run in multiples of that. But I guess by calling them "permatractors" it is to be inferred they don't have multiple, concurrent clients.

meridian
23rd November 2015, 23:52
Had a chat with my client this afternoon about possible changes. He's based on the EU mainland.

"Oh yes, we have something similar here, if you contract in the same role for more than two years then you are meant to become an employee. Most companies just change your title to get around it."

Sounds like he's amenable to opening a discussion on whatever we need to do once Gideon makes his announcement ;-)

javadude
24th November 2015, 09:21
I am here until October 16. I mentioned it to the Head of HR an hour ago on Lync, he took 10 mins to reply, I think he had passed out. He said he was shocked and rather worried. They have 50% of their project people as contractors and have no budget or facility to take them in as FTC or Perm.

It did feel good to share the pain. :tongue

Waking HR up to the realities of contracting must have been rather satisfying.