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Acme Thunderer
22nd November 2015, 12:39
Managed to see my MP about the T&S changes and the noises coming out about IR35 changes.

She seemed genuinely surprised that the T&S changes would remove expenses for staying away from home and stated that people like myself who put themselves out to work away from home aren't the intended target.

I also highlighted how IR35 would make use responsible for paying Employers Taxes (i.e. NIC) and would also mean that the the exception of the 5% set aside all other expenses e.g. training to keep our skills up would have to be paid for out taxed income - which was also something she wasn't aware of.

I summed up by pointing out that number of major projects in my sector are likely to lose a significant number of skilled contractors and endangering the ability of the end client to deliver to their customers. She then said to her assistant "Do you think BIS are aware of this?" i.e are the other government departments aware of the hit they could take?

She has told me that she'll get back to me after the autumn statement this coming week, when things may be a bit clearer.

It may not achieve anything at all, but at least I have tried.

MPwannadecentincome
22nd November 2015, 14:08
I thought it is still possible to claim expenses over and above the 5% when inside IR35?

The IR35 5% expenses rule


5% allowance is only for "administration" and is to cover the ten points above. In addition to the 5% for administration costs, a contractor can also claim direct costs such as travel, computer costs, subsistence, direct training, sub contractors, etc.

Acme Thunderer
22nd November 2015, 15:57
My understanding is T&S will be lost for both inside and outside of IR35 come next year as each gig will be counted as your permanent place of work.

Need to wait for Autumn Statement and it's details to be sure

BrilloPad
22nd November 2015, 16:40
It may not achieve anything at all, but at least I have tried.

So do you feel better now?

The issue is that all government MPs have to vote for the government. Else it is a statement of no confidence. I have seen this over the years with f4j and NTRT. Lots of nice noises. They are genuinely shocked.

HOWEVER the government run the country on behalf of HMRC.

There are many civil servants who eith cannot be sued or effectively cannot be sued. I think that says it all.

ShandyDrinker
22nd November 2015, 19:24
Managed to see my MP about the T&S changes and the noises coming out about IR35 changes.

She seemed genuinely surprised that the T&S changes would remove expenses for staying away from home and stated that people like myself who put themselves out to work away from home aren't the intended target.

I also highlighted how IR35 would make use responsible for paying Employers Taxes (i.e. NIC) and would also mean that the the exception of the 5% set aside all other expenses e.g. training to keep our skills up would have to be paid for out taxed income - which was also something she wasn't aware of.

I summed up by pointing out that number of major projects in my sector are likely to lose a significant number of skilled contractors and endangering the ability of the end client to deliver to their customers. She then said to her assistant "Do you think BIS are aware of this?" i.e are the other government departments aware of the hit they could take?

She has told me that she'll get back to me after the autumn statement this coming week, when things may be a bit clearer.

It may not achieve anything at all, but at least I have tried.

While I have written to mine a number of times and seen him recently I was left with the distinct impression that he wasn't prepared to give much away or was particularly sympathetic to the plight of contractors. However, he did concede the point that the T&S changes are likely to be very damaging to both contractors and businesses outside of major conurbations.

This week is going to be both interesting and terrifying, although not necessarily in that order.

pjt
22nd November 2015, 19:28
This week is going to be both interesting and terrifying, although not necessarily in that order.

As I've already stated we are turkeys waiting on Christmas!

BrilloPad
22nd November 2015, 19:29
As I've already stated we are turkeys waiting on Christmas!

Will John Connor please stand up.

MarkT
22nd November 2015, 19:54
While I have written to mine a number of times and seen him recently I was left with the distinct impression that he wasn't prepared to give much away or was particularly sympathetic to the plight of contractors. However, he did concede the point that the T&S changes are likely to be very damaging to both contractors and businesses outside of major conurbations.

This week is going to be both interesting and terrifying, although not necessarily in that order.

That's for sure.

The T&S is actually something I think we'll get away with, it makes no sense at all. I know of many, many contractors who live up north and work in London, its a disaster for them

GB9
22nd November 2015, 20:20
Managed to see my MP about the T&S changes and the noises coming out about IR35 changes.

It may not achieve anything at all, but at least I have tried.

Well done for doing that. Better than nothing!

Scruff
22nd November 2015, 21:24
Mine is Michael Bleeding Gove ferchrissakes. More Muppetry one cannot imagine...

BrilloPad
22nd November 2015, 21:26
Mine is Michael Bleeding Gove ferchrissakes. More Muppetry one cannot imagine...

Why not set up a meeting with him and the CUK massive can turn up.....

MPwannadecentincome
22nd November 2015, 21:56
My understanding is T&S will be lost for both inside and outside of IR35 come next year as each gig will be counted as your permanent place of work.

Need to wait for Autumn Statement and it's details to be sure

Ok we can maybe take travel out of the list... lets see next week!


[placeholder for travel if it survives AS 25 Nov], computer costs, subsistence, direct training, sub contractors, etc.

javadude
23rd November 2015, 10:23
I was thinking about meeting mine too. Based on my experience with BN66 he's a bit of a waste of space that will just toe the party line but it's worth a try. I'm waiting until after Wednesday though.

dmini
23rd November 2015, 13:29
I've just gone through the finance bill from the summer and cannot find a mention of us losing Travel/Subsistence. I know it was in the white papers etc. Was there another bill that completed from the spring budget that I cannot find? The finance bill contains no mention that I can find - and we only had one finance bill as far as I can see.

LisaContractorUmbrella
23rd November 2015, 13:42
I've just gone through the finance bill from the summer and cannot find a mention of us losing Travel/Subsistence. I know it was in the white papers etc. Was there another bill that completed from the spring budget that I cannot find? The finance bill contains no mention that I can find - and we only had one finance bill as far as I can see.

It was a consultation over the summer - any changes to legislation will be in the Finance Bill to be published 9th December I think

BrilloPad
23rd November 2015, 13:51
It was a consultation over the summer - any changes to legislation will be in the Finance Bill to be published 9th December I think

Stupid question - Autumn Statement due on Wed still? And we may get more information in there?

:confused:

LisaContractorUmbrella
23rd November 2015, 13:55
Stupid question - Autumn Statement due on Wed still? And we may get more information in there?

:confused:

Yep you got it :happy Nothing set in stone as yet - we'll get the basics and some guidance in the press notices following the Autumn Statement on Wednesday and then the actual legislation will be published 9th December (I think)

jamesbrown
23rd November 2015, 14:40
Yep you got it :happy Nothing set in stone as yet - we'll get the basics and some guidance in the press notices following the Autumn Statement on Wednesday and then the actual legislation will be published 9th December (I think)

Well, 9 December for the draft clauses in Finance Bill 2016. Frankly, I'd be surprised (and a little worried :laugh) to see any clauses w/r to a revised IR35 in FB 2016, let alone that draft (T&S may be though).

BrilloPad
23rd November 2015, 14:41
Well, 9 December for the draft clauses in Finance Bill 2016. Frankly, I'd be surprised (and a little worried :laugh) to see any clauses w/r to a revised IR35 in FB 2016, let alone that draft (T&S may be though).

Why would you be surprised / worried ? :confused:

jamesbrown
23rd November 2015, 14:44
Why would you be surprised / worried ? :confused:

That they drafted clauses for a revised IR35 before December 9 without any consultation? I think that's self-explanatory. It's not totally implausible if they're going to do something "simple" without consultation, but it's highly unlikely. We can only wait. I'd be stunned, as someone that follows the legislative process quite carefully. YMMV.

ps. I'd be worried even for a later draft of FB 2016, although that is considerably more likely than December 9.

BrilloPad
23rd November 2015, 14:47
That they drafted clauses for a revised IR35 before December 9 without any consultation? I think that's self-explanatory. It's not totally implausible if they're going to do something "simple" without consultation, but it's highly unlikely. We can only wait. I'd be stunned, as someone that follows the legislative process quite carefully. YMMV.

I hope you are right.

It is my opinion that HMRC run the government. HMRC already know what clauses they want. A bit like retrospection in 2008.

Its interesting that Labour refused to engage with IPSE before the election. So contractor Tory vote seemed the only choice left. But we have been stiffed.

But, I hope you are right.

LisaContractorUmbrella
23rd November 2015, 15:06
Well, 9 December for the draft clauses in Finance Bill 2016. Frankly, I'd be surprised (and a little worried :laugh) to see any clauses w/r to a revised IR35 in FB 2016, let alone that draft (T&S may be though).

Sorry - yep not IR35 but T&S

WordIsBond
23rd November 2015, 16:02
As I've already stated we are turkeys waiting on Christmas!
Just to a note for those turkeys counting on ER in the near future. My American clients have the day after Georgie's statement off. It's Thanksgiving.