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View Full Version : BTL: it's NOT the Boomers



expat
10th January 2016, 13:27
Most BTL wealth is not in the hands of the Boomers, it's owned by Gen X. Next comes the "Late Boomers", born 1959-64. They are not really the Baby Boomer Generation, they got reclassified into it by the statistical fact that the boom in babies continued until 1964. But as a Generation, they are not Boomers.

Just saying: if you lambast "Boomers" for the evils of BTL, you don't know what you're talking about.

SueEllen
10th January 2016, 14:11
Social scientists use different years for when different generations started and ended. Some even point out that there are differences between the US and other Western countries whilst others state they are the same.

In general if you were born after 1970 you are poorer than if you were born in 1960. You also have less social mobility e.g. someone who was an apprentice is less likely to become a senior manager.

All this stuff is not hard to find out because every UK university who does economics, politics etc courses posts links to their academic research work online.

BrilloPad
10th January 2016, 16:06
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X_(band)

I preferred Billy Idol after he left.

I don't blame people getting old and owning a house. I am not even sure that an elderly person living in a mansion is a problem.

People buying property they don't liv in with a mortgage is wrong. Removing tax relief on BTL mortgages is a start. A tax on rental income is also needed.

And foreigners owning UK property is wrong. It must be made illegal.

AtW
10th January 2016, 16:53
Just saying: if you lambast "Boomers" for the evils of BTL, you don't know what you're talking about.

I think right now the BTL narrative has shifted to Evil Osborne...

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1763663.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/PA-13097425.jpg

SueEllen
10th January 2016, 17:00
And foreigners owning UK property is wrong. It must be made illegal.

You cannot make that illegal.

What you can do is demand they have five years UK residence and an NI number, which some other EU countries have managed to do successfully...

scooterscot
10th January 2016, 17:13
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And foreigners owning UK property is wrong. It must be made illegal.

Why? Owning property, renting it out to some poor mug, exporting the tax free profits whilst not being resident is so much win.

AtW
10th January 2016, 17:17
You cannot make that illegal.What you can do is demand they have five years UK residence and an NI number, which some other EU countries have managed to do successfully...

Good way to collapse London market :laugh

And probably UK banking system.

You do realise that foreigners from countries like Russia, Nigeria, China don't just buy £50 mln two bedroom houses in Chelsea and stop at that? They'd bring in at least 10 times more laundered cash into UK banking system, it's all criminal money - stolen/defrauded in their own countries, very well protected in this country, which is why they come over. There are some exceptions, but I'd say the higher the value of house they buy in London the less chance of such exception to happen.

SueEllen
10th January 2016, 17:36
Good way to collapse London market :laugh

And probably UK banking system.

You do realise that foreigners from countries like Russia, Nigeria, China don't just buy £50 mln two bedroom houses in Chelsea and stop at that? They'd bring in at least 10 times more laundered cash into UK banking system, it's all criminal money - stolen/defrauded in their own countries, very well protected in this country, which is why they come over. There are some exceptions, but I'd say the higher the value of house they buy in London the less chance of such exception to happen.

The Russians, the Arabs and the Nigerians won't have a problem "proving" their 5 years residence but the Chinese may find it a problem unless they "studied" over here.

AtW
10th January 2016, 17:43
The Russians, the Arabs and the Nigerians won't have a problem "proving" their 5 years residence but the Chinese may find it a problem unless they "studied" over here.

All of the above are disappearing from the market - higher taxes (they used to buy using offshore firms to hide names of real owners of the property), a lot less new money coming into respective countries to there is less to steal there, and frankly London property specifically is crazy overpriced, how would 5 year requirement even work with companies buying property???

BrilloPad
10th January 2016, 18:20
Good way to collapse London market :laugh

And probably UK banking system.

You do realise that foreigners from countries like Russia, Nigeria, China don't just buy £50 mln two bedroom houses in Chelsea and stop at that? They'd bring in at least 10 times more laundered cash into UK banking system, it's all criminal money - stolen/defrauded in their own countries, very well protected in this country, which is why they come over. There are some exceptions, but I'd say the higher the value of house they buy in London the less chance of such exception to happen.

So all positive outcome then....

AtW
10th January 2016, 18:50
So all positive outcome then....

I doubt it.

Crash in high end of London's market will drag other segments lower too, and it would have ripple effect outside of London.

I'll probably take that Russian Consulate building in Kensington & Chelsea when it is on a market for a fiver.

BrilloPad
10th January 2016, 18:53
I doubt it.

Crash in high end of London's market will drag other segments lower too, and it would have ripple effect outside of London.

I'll probably take that Russian Consulate building in Kensington & Chelsea when it is on a market for a fiver.

It will just rebalance the UK economy. And people will be far happier as there will be more equality.

AtW
10th January 2016, 19:00
It will just rebalance the UK economy. And people will be far happier as there will be more equality.

The only time people are equal is after they die ...

vetran
10th January 2016, 19:01
It will just rebalance the UK economy. And people will be far happier as there will be more equality.

yeah the really rich people will just buy more property via shell companies etc & the renters will be shafted. FTBs will sad face on DM all day.

b0redom
10th January 2016, 19:04
People buying property they don't liv in with a mortgage is wrong. Removing tax relief on BTL mortgages is a start. A tax on rental income is also needed.

What? Like income tax you mean? The tax that is already applied to B2L profit after mortgage relief (which is also about to be removed)? :freaky:

AtW
10th January 2016, 19:08
yeah the really rich people will just buy more property via shell companies etc & the renters will be shafted. FTBs will sad face on DM all day.

Osborne already increases taxes massively on foreign companies buying property - that's was typical for rich foreigners to do since it was hiding true owner of the property.

From what I've ready right now high end London property is totally unattractive to rich foreigners, falling prices don't encourage buyers either.

BrilloPad
10th January 2016, 19:15
What? Like income tax you mean? The tax that is already applied to B2L profit after mortgage relief (which is also about to be removed)? :freaky:

I mean in addition to income tax. The market has been skewed for too long.

How are young people supposed to get on the housing ladder? Though as they don't vote, f**k em....

vetran
10th January 2016, 19:27
I mean in addition to income tax. The market has been skewed for too long.

How are young people supposed to get on the housing ladder? Though as they don't vote, f**k em....

Build more houses, have fewer people want them!

done

BrilloPad
10th January 2016, 19:36
Build more houses, have fewer people want them!

done

Lets stop immigration. And then re-patriate all the ones here.

Starting with the French....

AtW
10th January 2016, 19:37
Lets stop immigration. And then re-patriate all the ones here.

Starting with the French....

Moi??? :eek

BrilloPad
10th January 2016, 19:38
Moi??? :eek

Are you French?

Actually all squirrel-botherers can stay....

vetran
10th January 2016, 20:33
Are you French?

Actually all squirrel-botherers can stay....

Does AtW do 'French'? I suppose it pays more than SEO nowadays. NLYUK has a new GT after all.

SueEllen
10th January 2016, 21:47
I doubt it.

Crash in high end of London's market will drag other segments lower too, and it would have ripple effect outside of London.

I'll probably take that Russian Consulate building in Kensington & Chelsea when it is on a market for a fiver.

Don't they will put radioactive stuff in your drinks and the British government won't investigate your death until we've complaint, then the engineers and those in defence will disappear only to be found after "committing suicide"...

AtW
10th January 2016, 22:35
Don't they will put radioactive stuff in your drinks and the British government won't investigate your death until we've complaint, then the engineers and those in defence will disappear only to be found after "committing suicide"...

I know.

That's why I've left a note listing my friends on cUK...

PurpleGorilla
11th January 2016, 10:19
Most BTL wealth is not in the hands of the Boomers, it's owned by Gen X. Next comes the "Late Boomers", born 1959-64. They are not really the Baby Boomer Generation, they got reclassified into it by the statistical fact that the boom in babies continued until 1964. But as a Generation, they are not Boomers.

Just saying: if you lambast "Boomers" for the evils of BTL, you don't know what you're talking about.

Source?

MrMarkyMark
11th January 2016, 10:22
FTFY


B*llocks, misleading, graph?

PurpleGorilla
11th January 2016, 11:24
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/baby-boomers-buying-up-properties-and-renting-to-young-people-who-then-cannot-afford-to-buy-homes-10094548.html

"Baby-boomers who have benefited from rising house prices are fuelling the housing crisis by buying up properties to rent out to young people who cannot afford to purchase, a new report warns today.

Britain’s stark housing divide is no longer based on class and income but is largely between the generations, according to the Chartered Institute of Housing."

MrMarkyMark
11th January 2016, 11:25
"Baby-boomers who have benefited from rising house prices are fuelling the housing crisis by buying up properties to rent out to young people who cannot afford to purchase, a new report warns today.

Britain’s stark housing divide is no longer based on class and income but is largely between the generations, according to the Chartered Institute of Housing."


Graph?

PurpleGorilla
11th January 2016, 11:29
Graph?

DYOR

ChimpMaster
11th January 2016, 12:17
DYOR

BYOH.

MrMarkyMark
11th January 2016, 12:56
DYOR

Why would I? You are so good at it, after all :D

PurpleGorilla
11th January 2016, 13:36
Why would I? You are so good at it, after all :D

Ask Expat, he clearly has the data [emoji39]

MrMarkyMark
11th January 2016, 13:40
Ask Expat, he clearly has the data [emoji39]

I was looking for a "balanced" point of view :eyes

barrydidit
11th January 2016, 13:41
BYOH.

:laugh

BrilloPad
11th January 2016, 13:42
I was looking for a "balanced" point of view :eyes

DA will give you any POV you want. For 30%....

MrMarkyMark
11th January 2016, 13:44
FTFY


DA will give you any POV you want. For 50%....

Margins, dear boy, margins.....:smokin

barrydidit
11th January 2016, 13:45
DA will give you any POV you want. For 30%....

Even by DA's standards, that's a bit much :eyes Urban Dictionary: pov (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pov)

PurpleGorilla
11th January 2016, 13:48
I was looking for a "balanced" point of view :eyes

No problem;

boomers took all the pies, made a fortune, and rent them back to the young, for high prices, trapping them with rented pies.

Source:

http://www.cih.org/news-article/display/vpathDCR/templatedata/cih/news-article/data/Young_people_and_people_on_lower_incomes_paying_th e_price_for_our_broken_housing_market

MrMarkyMark
11th January 2016, 13:51
No problem;

boomers took all the pies, made a fortune, and rent them back to the young, for high prices, trapping them with rented pies.

Source:

Housing news (http://www.cih.org/news-article/display/vpathDCR/templatedata/cih/news-article/data/Young_people_and_people_on_lower_incomes_paying_th e_price_for_our_broken_housing_market)

What does he know, he's only a boy :D


http://www.cih.org/resources/images/homepage/news/gavin.jpg


Its OK, I located my own chart :eyes


http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4c9372037f8b9a244a4c0000/chart.png

BrilloPad
11th January 2016, 13:55
Its OK, I located my own chart :eyes

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4c9372037f8b9a244a4c0000/chart.png

You have it all wrong! Look at the time point in the middle. Zoom in on that. You get a totally different view. Clearly AGW does not exist. UK house prices are cheap. And DFS sofas are expensive.

vetran
11th January 2016, 13:57
Even by DA's standards, that's a bit much :eyes Urban Dictionary: pov (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pov)

you mean it isn't like he screws you in person?

MrMarkyMark
11th January 2016, 13:57
You have it all wrong! Look at the time point in the middle. Zoom in on that. You get a totally different view. Clearly AGW does not exist. UK house prices are cheap. And DFS sofas are expensive.

I do get really confused about this housing stuff, even though I do subscribe to the Daily Fail :eyes

PurpleGorilla
11th January 2016, 13:58
http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/united-kingdom-housing-index.png?s=unitedkinhouind&v=201601111306n&d1=19160101&d2=20161231

MrMarkyMark
11th January 2016, 13:58
you mean it isn't like he screws you in person?

Have you not heard of a multi-tier arrangement?

Everyone's a winner :smokin

MrMarkyMark
11th January 2016, 13:59
http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/united-kingdom-housing-index.png?s=unitedkinhouind&v=201601111306n&d1=19160101&d2=20161231

That's better :smokin

DimPrawn
11th January 2016, 16:43
http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/united-kingdom-housing-index.png?s=unitedkinhouind&v=201601111306n&d1=19160101&d2=20161231

Well clearly the overall trend is always up.

Buy like mad on the dips!

PurpleGorilla
11th January 2016, 17:08
Well clearly the overall trend is always up.

Buy like mad on the dips!

Quite right. But when is the next dip?

AtW
11th January 2016, 18:50
Quite right. But when is the next dip?

2029 and 2036

HTH

PurpleGorilla
11th January 2016, 18:59
2029 and 2036

HTH

Lol [emoji39]

DimPrawn
11th January 2016, 22:15
Quite right. But when is the next dip?

When that line thing bends down, and then just starts to bend up again.

HTH BIDI

AtW
11th January 2016, 23:07
When that line thing bends down, and then just starts to bend up again.

HTH BIDI

You are sasguru and I claim my 5 free book tokens!