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eek
19th January 2016, 09:18
Yes its the Daily Telegraph but this is what any tax system needs to be based upon

The self-employed will overtake the public sector with the ‘gig economy’ - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/12106318/The-self-employed-will-overtake-the-public-sector-with-the-gig-economy.html)

SueEllen
19th January 2016, 09:33
Thing is the public sector bill won't decrease as the public sector uses lots of freelancers.

LisaContractorUmbrella
19th January 2016, 09:35
"there will be a big constituency for politicians who offer the self-employed the kind of tax and welfare changes that make their lives easier."

Can we just send this to every MP and then sit back and wait whilst our lives get easier - if they think there's a vote in it perhaps they'll have a rethink about some of HMRC's latest brainwaves :happy

BrilloPad
19th January 2016, 09:40
According to HMRC, self-employed=tax evader.

seanraaron
19th January 2016, 11:26
The writer of that piece seems to be leaping to some false conclusions there. Certainly in regards to the public sector you'll be seeing more fixed term contracts because the councils cannot afford to have a fixed number of full-time positions so they need to be able to dump workers without notice as budgets see fit; it neatly avoids dealing with union rules as well regarding notice periods and such.

For skilled professions like IT where you can command more income there's a more obvious attraction, but for most workers, contracting probably isn't going to be something they choose. In the States a shift towards fixed-term contracts and rolling contracts took place starting in the 90s, where the savings to corporations were obvious with no upside for staff who found themselves forced to choose between non-permanent status or no job and having to pay full-freight for health insurance (if you could qualify).

Can't say I see anything to celebrate here, really and as has been noted by others I rather doubt we'll see either a union mentality take hold to leverage the numbers or voluntary movements from politicians motivated by vote buying. The silver lining is the presence of a still (somewhat) robust welfare system and employment laws, though if an EU exit is on the cards that could change.

SueEllen
19th January 2016, 16:10
Watch something yesterday - in short the UK won't be allowed to leave the EU as they will make us have referendums until we vote the "right" way.

So we should all vote "No" until we get what we want. The problem is I blame UK politicians, past and present, for not changing benefit rules.

SussexSeagull
20th January 2016, 18:32
Actually I think the more forward thinking people on the left are realising that their natural power base, the public sector, is shrinking and they need to get support from other areas of society, of which self employed is the fastest growing (Jeremy Corbyn mentioning the self employed in his conference speech was very interesting).

The Conservatives seem rather slow to adjust, however.

jamesbrown
20th January 2016, 18:38
Actually I think the more forward thinking people on the left are realising that their natural power base, the public sector, is shrinking and they need to get support from other areas of society, of which self employed is the fastest growing (Jeremy Corbyn mentioning the self employed in his conference speech was very interesting).

The Conservatives seem rather slow to adjust, however.

Support in the sense that they'd like to buy our votes for a massive increase in tax and regulation, but possibly for some additional employee-type benefits.

What irritates me about much of the discussion on self-employment is that it centres around increasing our "rights", akin to those that an employee might have. It isn't aided by some in our industry advocating for that. What rights, FFS, beyond those stated in our contracts? The problem with talking about the "self-employed" is that it's a group of people with little more coherence than the population at large.

seanraaron
21st January 2016, 10:35
True. I mean I don't care about tax avoidance, but the money is a lot better in contracting. If I could make an extra £10-15k in a permanent gig, contracting wouldn't be worth doing for me.

The fact that it's not exactly a lifestyle choice for many but a necessity makes the idea of treating "self-employed" contractors as a group a bit silly. Given the choice I bet a lot would rather have the stability of a permanent job, so doing something to discourage the practice of contracting for what would normally be permanent positions would make more sense than promising better tax treatment or whatever.

mudskipper
21st January 2016, 18:39
Given the choice I bet a lot would rather have the stability of a permanent job...

What makes you think that?

northernladuk
21st January 2016, 19:16
Given the choice I bet a lot would rather have the stability of a permanent job, so doing something to discourage the practice of contracting for what would normally be permanent positions would make more sense than promising better tax treatment or whatever.

You talk some utter codswallop you do.

javadude
22nd January 2016, 11:39
Given the choice I bet a lot would rather have the stability of a permanent job...

I've had the same employer for 9 years and they're unlikely to make me redundant because the director of the company is me. I don't have to worry about the latest crackpot idea for merging, selling, listing the company etc as that's all under my control. I've worked on a variety of projects that have kept my skills up to date and keep me marketable. With frequent opportunities to practice my interview skills with clients and keep my CV up-to-date I'm ready for new contract opportunities (or permanent ones if I chose). I recon I have far more stability and security than any permie who could be made redundant at the drop of a hat with out of date skills and no idea of how to sell themselves.

NotAllThere
22nd January 2016, 13:02
...the stability of a permanent job...What stability would that be?

You talk some utter codswallop you do.Quite.

PurpleGorilla
24th January 2016, 15:25
No1 reason for me to work for myself is not to have a boss or PDR crap.

Modern HR has created a paternalistic/materialistic environment. "Restroom break boss". Seriously you need permission to pee, or when to take some leave, or authorisation training, or have a meeting with someone. You are treated like a kid.

Who wants any of that shite.

SueEllen
24th January 2016, 17:17
No1 reason for me to work for myself is not to have a boss or PDR crap.

Modern HR has created a paternalistic/materialistic environment. "Restroom break boss". Seriously you need permission to pee, or when to take some leave, or authorisation training, or have a meeting with someone. You are treated like a kid.

Who wants any of that tulipe.

Not in all places I worked as a permie.

Unfortunately those where the places that were brought by other companies.....

seanraaron
25th January 2016, 09:26
What makes you think that?

Because if your job is being canned and you're being offered the same job at the same pay on a non-permanent basis it tends to make you feel less secure.

I'm not talking about people who "take the plunge" here, I'm talking about public sector jobs that used to be permanent that are being replaced with fixed-length contracts due to budgeting woes. But you know carry on telling me I'm talking tulip without reading my actual post...directed at "Mr. Lad," etc.

nigelbb
26th January 2016, 10:23
What stability would that be?
Quite.

Time was when a permanent job was a job for life if you chose to stay. Twenty or thirty years ago it would have been inconceivable that teachers or doctors or nurses would be laid off. Nowadays the employment landscape is very different & no job is secure.