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DimPrawn
12th April 2016, 09:35
Who Loses the Most From ‘Brexit’? Try Goldman Sachs - WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/articles/who-loses-the-most-from-brexit-try-goldman-sachs-1460403274)

Among those leading the charge is Goldman Sachs. For three years, the bank’s executives have publicly warned about the downsides of leaving the EU. The bank has donated around $700,000 to a group which is lobbying against Brexit, according to a person familiar with the matter. Its executives have signed warning letters to major British newspapers. An EU flag currently flutters above its London headquarters. Last fall the bank organized events on the sidelines of opposition Labour and governing Conservative party conferences to debate the role of the U.K. in Europe.

During the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum in January in Switzerland, Gary Cohn, president of Goldman Sachs, reiterated a well-rehearsed warning. “It is imperative for the U.K. to keep the financial-services industry in the U.K.,” he said, adding, “I don’t know what would replace that industry.”

The advocacy by U.S. banks has antagonized those, often at smaller brokers or hedge funds, who say the U.K. financial sector would be less heavily regulated outside the EU and thrive. “Why would the Americans be interested in what is good for the U.K.?” said Howard Shore, executive chairman of Shore Capital Group PLC, an investment group. “They are interested in what is good for their bank.”

Vote Brexit and sink the dirty spekulative US banks! :devil

Lockhouse
12th April 2016, 10:11
Plus sovereignty, saving the NHS, TTIP. Why anyone would vote to stay in is beyond me

sasguru
12th April 2016, 10:13
Plus sovereignty, saving the NHS, TTIP. Why anyone would vote to stay in is beyond me

If you are so certain of yourself, and can't see the other side of the argument, you are almost certainly wrong.

BrilloPad
12th April 2016, 11:04
Plus sovereignty, saving the NHS, TTIP. Why anyone would vote to stay in is beyond me

The main reason given is that it would be too complex to get out.

DimPrawn
12th April 2016, 11:08
European Parliament President Schulz warns of ′implosion of EU′ | News | DW.COM | 12.04.2016 (http://www.dw.com/en/european-parliament-president-schulz-warns-of-implosion-of-eu/a-19179812)

BrilloPad
12th April 2016, 11:08
GS are a lovely bunch. They certainly helped to get Greece into the Euro.

SimonMac
12th April 2016, 11:22
Plus sovereignty, saving the NHS, TTIP. Why anyone would vote to stay in is beyond me

What has saving the NHS got to do with staying in the EU, its half staffed with migrants

DimPrawn
12th April 2016, 11:23
What has saving the NHS got to do with staying in the EU, its half staffed with migrants

Most of the NHS "customers" are migrants.

BrilloPad
12th April 2016, 11:23
What has saving the NHS got to do with staying in the EU, its half staffed with migrants

Racist....

:rolleyes:

SimonMac
12th April 2016, 11:24
The main reason given is that it would be too complex to get out.

Its a fair cry, no one knows how easy or hard it would be to unpcik everything and start again, trade won't stop overnight, but it will take hell of a long time to sort out and that is where uncertainty will breed fear or panic

sasguru
12th April 2016, 11:24
Most of the NHS "customers" are Oldies.

FTFY

BrilloPad
12th April 2016, 11:25
Most of the NHS "customers" are migrants.

After that recent party you had with those Polish h00kers, there was a large amount of migrant traffic to the STI clinic. Did any of the lash marks require A+E treatment?

DimPrawn
12th April 2016, 11:25
FTFY

In leafy Surrey, it is mostly boomers.

Everywhere else it is health tourists.

meridian
12th April 2016, 11:28
What has saving the NHS got to do with staying in the EU, its half staffed with migrants

11% is hardly close to "half" http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/26/nhs-foreign-nationals-immigration-health-service

Leaving the EU would play straight into the hands of Wipro, Tata, et al. Without IT workers from the EU, guess where your job is going to?

vetran
12th April 2016, 11:29
Its a fair cry, no one knows how easy or hard it would be to unpcik everything and start again, trade won't stop overnight, but it will take hell of a long time to sort out and that is where uncertainty will breed fear or panic

OJFKQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ateh7hnEnik

DimPrawn
12th April 2016, 11:29
11% is hardly close to "half" Figures show extent of NHS reliance on foreign nationals | Society | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/26/nhs-foreign-nationals-immigration-health-service)

Leaving the EU would play straight into the hands of Wipro, Tata, et al. Without IT workers from the EU, guess where your job is going to?

If it's like a SWIFT payment, it ain't gonna be quick. :laugh

sasguru
12th April 2016, 11:31
In leafy Surrey, it is mostly boomers.

Everywhere else it is health tourists.

The reason I'll be voting to stay in, is that I realise we need clever immigrants in a knowledge economy.
Otherwise we have innumerate people like you who make statements/judgements/decisions that are not evidence based.
And if we have too many people like you, the country is not going to be world class.

HTH, BIDI.

diseasex
12th April 2016, 11:32
If brexit will become a possible scenario i will sell all shares and buy dollar.
Either way it wont end up well for the markets (yes you are participant of that market too).

If we stay in,on the other hand i expect FTSE to go up by 5-10%
^_^

DimPrawn
12th April 2016, 11:36
Otherwise we have innumerate people like you who make statements/judgements/decisions that are not evidence based.

HTH, BIDI.

1. I am not innumerate!
27. What is innumerate?

SimonMac
12th April 2016, 11:36
Most of the NHS "customers" are migrants.


The available evidence suggests that non-permanent residents and visitors to England consumed just under £2bn of NHS services in 2012-13, or about 1.8% of its budget of which £328m was recoverable.

Are foreign patients really to blame for NHS squeeze? | Society | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/10/foreign-patients-nhs-nigel-farage)

DimPrawn
12th April 2016, 11:38
Are foreign patients really to blame for NHS squeeze? | Society | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/10/foreign-patients-nhs-nigel-farage)

The Guardian.:rollin:

Flabby Liberalism.

Lockhouse
12th April 2016, 11:43
If you are so certain of yourself, and can't see the other side of the argument, you are almost certainly wrong.

Patronising git.

unemployed
12th April 2016, 12:00
The reason I'll be voting to stay in, is that I realise we need clever immigrants in a knowledge economy.
Otherwise we have innumerate people like you who make statements/judgements/decisions that are not evidence based.
And if we have too many people like you, the country is not going to be world class.

HTH, BIDI.


Nah he needs migrants to claim rent off the council :rollin:

HTH

PurpleGorilla
12th April 2016, 12:54
My reasons:

Better border control and less immigration.

The exit could crash the debt housing bubble.

vetran
12th April 2016, 12:57
The reason I'll be voting to stay in, is that I realise we need clever immigrants in a knowledge economy.
Otherwise we have innumerate people like you who make statements/judgements/decisions that are not evidence based.
And if we have too many people like you, the country is not going to be world class.

HTH, BIDI.

and there you go the genius assguru speaks for open borders rather than controlled migration on the basis open borders will restrict migrants to the 'clever'


:rollin:

SueEllen
12th April 2016, 13:04
The exit could crash the debt housing bubble.

Nope that won't happen.

BlasterBates
12th April 2016, 13:09
My reasons:

Better border control and less immigration.

The exit could crash the debt housing bubble.

Most immigrants are actually not from the EU, 66% in fact, and it is also almost certain the UK will agree the same rules on the free movement.

There are 2.5 million UK citizens living in the EU, you can't turn the clock back.

i.e. Brexit will make no difference-

But lets say for example you managed to reduce EU migration by 30% which would be a major achievement. That would reduce overall migration by 10%, and that would be a Britain with a pretty crappy trading agreement with the EU, in other words faced with those facts future UK politicians won't be blocking the free movement of EU nationals, it isn't worth it.

PurpleGorilla
12th April 2016, 13:24
TBH even if there is no change to immigration, and no economic crash; the exit is such a fascinating concept, it worth voting to leave just to see what happens.

Honestly, anything that rocks the status quo is a good thing in my mind.

BlasterBates
12th April 2016, 13:39
TBH even if there is no change to immigration, and no economic crash; the exit is such a fascinating concept, it worth voting to leave just to see what happens.

Honestly, anything that rocks the status quo is a good thing in my mind.

Yes it will be interesting.

I can see a Brexit happening, and I think in the end it will make sod all difference. Britain will do what Norway did and sign up to the EU as a non-member, because of it's reliance on services and need for the City to continue to access the ECB in order to finance it's Euro trading, the agreement will probably look very similar indeed to the agreement we have now. In order to make something more of a significant break it would have to give that up and I can't see that happening.

However up until the agreement stands things will be "exciting" and probably we would end up with Corbyn as prime minister.

SueEllen
12th April 2016, 13:41
However up until the agreement stands things will be "exciting" and probably we would end up with Corbyn as prime minister.

That would make me vote to stay in.

OwlHoot
12th April 2016, 13:41
TBH even if there is no change to immigration, and no economic crash; the exit is such a fascinating concept, it worth voting to leave just to see what happens.

Honestly, anything that rocks the status quo is a good thing in my mind.

Although admittedly I'm sitting pretty with a large house that I own outright, I must say I absolutely agree with you even if (very unlikely) property prices fall significantly.

England and later Scotland did very well once we left the (then) clammy embrace of the Catholic Church in the 1530s, and at the time many timid collectivists predicted dire consequences, and yes there was some disruption for a while. Leaving the EU is the exact modern equivalent.

BlasterBates
12th April 2016, 13:48
That would make me vote to stay in.

The Conservative party will fall apart, I think that's pretty clear and we can see in the recent polls, Corbyn is making headway, with a broken Conservative party should be a wheeze. People are getting used to him.

SueEllen
12th April 2016, 13:51
The Conservative party will fall apart, I think that's pretty clear and we can see in the recent polls, Corbyn is making headway, with a broken Conservative party should be a wheeze. People are getting used to him.

They will fall apart anyway.

The party imploded under Major thanks to Europe. However it took until Bliar turned up for people to vote Labour as Kinnock wasn't trusted.

sasguru
12th April 2016, 14:05
Brexit followed by Tory implosion, followed by Corbyn = end of the UK as a world player.
And the people who will suffer most will be the poorly-skilled people (including some Cukkers) who voted for it.
Go for it!

unemployed
12th April 2016, 14:08
Brexit followed by Tory implosion, followed by Corbyn = end of the UK as a world player.
And the people who will suffer most will be the poorly-skilled people (including some Cukkers) who voted for it.
Go for it!

Time to load up on BTL then

BrilloPad
12th April 2016, 14:21
However it took until Bliar turned up for people to vote Labour as Kinnock was ginger and Welsh

FTFY

jamesbrown
12th April 2016, 14:28
That would make me vote to stay in.

If it could be shown that this would definitely happen, I would give it a second thought, and then vote leave. :D Sometimes you have to take your medicine, but Corbyn would crash and burn in the early stages of a Labour gov't, not so much because of his ideas and ideals (bad as they are, it would take a while for these to work through, and there will be moderating influences), but because of his incompetence. Just look at his tax return, for example. He can't even get the basics right. Or look at the number of open goals he's been delivered in PMQs, and promptly punted them into the stands. He's in the process of rigging the Labour party to avoid being booted out, but he can't rig broader public opinion.

SueEllen
12th April 2016, 14:31
FTFY

We voted for Scots...

sasguru
12th April 2016, 14:33
Time to load up on BTL then

Diversification is the name of the game - selling one of three, proceeds to go into other investments.
Got portable enough skills to get a job in Switzerland/Germany.
If Brexit happens will watch with interest, from elsewhere.

unemployed
12th April 2016, 14:37
Diversification is the name of the game - selling one of three, proceeds to go into other investments.
Got portable enough skills to get a job in Switzerland/Germany.
If Brexit happens will watch with interest, from elsewhere.
The Robbie Fowler method is tried and tested
It has Brexit compatibility built in.

Borrow quick and as much as you can.

jamesbrown
12th April 2016, 14:38
The Conservative party will fall apart, I think that's pretty clear and we can see in the recent polls, Corbyn is making headway, with a broken Conservative party should be a wheeze. People are getting used to him.

It depends on the magnitude of the Remain win. Almost certainly, the backbenchers (even now) could put together 50 letters for the 1922 Committee, but it isn't that simple. The Eurosceptics need a pathway to achieving their aim, which is to put in place a Eurosceptic leader and retain power in 2020. I can see one of three things happening. Remain win big, Cameron is gifted the authority for a significant reshuffle, bringing in Gove, promoting Patel (perhaps), promoting Johnson, but removing Grayling and a few others. The backbenchers will keep their powder dry with a significant win for Remain, knowing that any future leadership contest (before 2020) will be won by a Eurosceptic. In that case, the Tories stay together. Leave win, and Cameron is instantly gone. Again, the Tories stay together (because the remaniacs are unlikely to risk power in 2020). A close result, Remain or Leave; this is the most dangerous result for the Tories, because Euroscepetics would feel they could trigger a leadership contest and win, based on the way the gov't has conducted itself. If the latter is a close win for Remain, Cameron will try to do the same as a big win for Remain, but it's doubtful he could achieve this. There would be open warfare, very little contentious gov't business would go through, and this may result in a definitive split in the Tories.

sasguru
12th April 2016, 14:41
The Robbie Fowler method is tried and tested
It has Brexit compatibility built in.

Borrow quick and as much as you can.

I don't need any more money - fine as I am, thanks.
Have reached peak stuff - travelling is my main indulgence nowadays.
As someone said travel is the only way to spend money and come back richer.
Fancy a stint working in Switzerland, did it before.

unemployed
12th April 2016, 14:42
I don't need any more money - fine as I am, thanks.
Have reached peak stuff - travelling is my main indulgence nowadays.
As someone said travel is the only time to spend money and come back richer.
Fancy a stint working in Switzerland, did it before.
sure you're not a permie :rollin:

vetran
12th April 2016, 14:42
Yes it will be interesting.

I can see a Brexit happening, and I think in the end it will make sod all difference. Britain will do what Norway did and sign up to the EU as a non-member, because of it's reliance on services and need for the City to continue to access the ECB in order to finance it's Euro trading, the agreement will probably look very similar indeed to the agreement we have now. In order to make something more of a significant break it would have to give that up and I can't see that happening.

However up until the agreement stands things will be "exciting" and probably we would end up with Corbyn as prime minister.

If we stay in it will be taken as a vote for 'ever closer union' the European experiment will continue.

Cameron said as much yesterday, a vote for him in the last election was a vote to remain, not a vote against Millibrain.

I don't want that , I would prefer to be like Norway than an occupied Vichy France. Yes I do believe that is a possible future even if our lords & masters don't wear swastikas it may well evolve to the 4th Reich.

sasguru
12th April 2016, 14:45
sure you're not a permie :rollin:

Nope. Have started working 6-9 months of the year, from home exclusively, take the other months off.

BlasterBates
12th April 2016, 15:14
If we stay in it will be taken as a vote for 'ever closer union' the European experiment will continue.

Cameron said as much yesterday, a vote for him in the last election was a vote to remain, not a vote against Millibrain.

I don't want that , I would prefer to be like Norway than an occupied Vichy France. Yes I do believe that is a possible future even if our lords & masters don't wear swastikas it may well evolve to the 4th Reich.

When you say we have to be part of an ever closer Union, in what way ?

We're not part of the Euro, we won't be part of a European army, there's no plan to create a European NHS, nor is there a plan to create a European education authority, and there is also no plan to unify criminal law. or create a European police force. There is also no plan to unify taxation apart from minimum rates on VAT which Norway agrees to and they're talking about abolishing, and the UK has an exemption from Schengen.

What exactly do you mean? if we stay what will we be part of that Norway isn't? and surely if the UK gets an exemption from the Euro won't it also get an exemption for anything else similar ?

vetran
12th April 2016, 15:31
When you say we have to be part of an ever closer Union, in what way ?

We're not part of the Euro, we won't be part of a European army, there's no plan to create a European NHS, nor is there a plan to create a European education authority, and there is also no plan to unify criminal law. or create a European police force. There is also no plan to unify taxation apart from minimum rates on VAT which Norway agrees to and they're talking about abolishing, and the UK has an exemption from Schengen.

What exactly do you mean? if we stay what will we be part of that Norway isn't? and surely if the UK gets an exemption from the Euro won't it also get an exemption for anything else similar ?


Mr Lamsdorff – also known as Count Lamsdorff as he is part of the German aristocracy – sits as an MEP for the country’s liberal Free Democratic Party.

Five years ago he was quoted saying: ‘It was a mistake to admit the British into the European Union.’

Speaking to the EurActiv Germany website, he said yesterday that the deal between the European Council and the UK was ‘not legally binding’.

‘At the moment, the whole thing is nothing more than a deal that has been hammered out down the local bazaar,’ he said.

‘The European Union, however, is a community of law, in which there are regulated responsibilities.


‘If the British are going to put all their eggs in one basket, in a promise made like this, which has not yet complied with our clean process of law, them for me, this process of law is more important and preferable.’

Mr Lamsdorff said that the ‘emergency brake’ idea – under which in-work benefits for EU migrants could be suspended for four years in times of pressure – went ‘too far’, and could lead to the end of the single market.

For the emergency brake to come into force, the EU directive on free movement has to be modified with the consent of the European Parliament.

Asked whether this might be refuse, he said: ‘I’m sure that I will certainly not agree to a change of the directive, as it would restrict one of our basic fundamental freedoms.


obviously this bloke didn't get the memo saying keep scthum until they vote to remain.


We voted to join a common market in 1975. The EU has marched steadily forward with successive governments signing away powers without a referendum.

vetran
12th April 2016, 15:44
Nope. Have started working 6-9 months of the year, from home exclusively, take the other months off.

I worked 10 months last year, mostly from home, I do like the cycle to the office occasionally.

sasguru
12th April 2016, 15:45
I worked 10 months last year, mostly from home, I do like the cycle to the office occasionally.

Yeah but you're on a salary :laugh:laugh

vetran
12th April 2016, 15:48
Yeah but you're on a BIG salary :laugh:laugh

FTFY


:grin

sasguru
12th April 2016, 15:49
FTFY


:grin

Doubt it, unless your employers are mugs.

unemployed
12th April 2016, 15:52
Nope. Have started working 6-9 months of the year, from home exclusively, take the other months off.

I took 12 months of the year off :tongue

sasguru
12th April 2016, 15:55
I took 12 months of the year off :tongue

Yeah but you're a :winker:. living with your mum.
Why don't you find a forum for doleys?

BlasterBates
12th April 2016, 15:57
obviously this bloke didn't get the memo saying keep scthum until they vote to remain.


We voted to join a common market in 1975. The EU has marched steadily forward with successive governments signing away powers without a referendum.

Ah right so one MEP has announced he won't support the measure, but won't there be 75 UK MEP's who will ?

unemployed
12th April 2016, 16:02
Yeah but you're a :winker:. living with your mum.
Why don't you find a forum for doleys?
:rollin:

Poor Mrs guru

vetran
12th April 2016, 16:11
:rollin:

Poor Mrs guru senior

FTFY

God forfend SAS will procreate

vetran
12th April 2016, 16:11
Doubt it, unless your employers are mugs.

you win some, you win some. People hire you !

vetran
12th April 2016, 16:13
Ah right so one MEP has announced he won't support the measure, but won't there be 75 UK MEP's who will ?

prove 75 MEPs will after a remain vote.

LondonManc
12th April 2016, 16:14
FTFY

God forfend SAS will procreate

There we have it; the worst decision not to pull out.

Anyone looking forward to June when 2.5 million more migrants leave Turkey for the Schengen area?

vetran
12th April 2016, 16:18
There we have it; the worst decision not to pull out.

Anyone looking forward to June when 2.5 million more migrants leave Turkey for the Schengen area?

they will quietly wait at the border to be processed and sent to outer mongolia any suggestion we have no control over them in the EU is obviously idiotic.

BlasterBates
12th April 2016, 16:27
they will quietly wait at the border to be processed and sent to outer mongolia any suggestion we have no control over them in the EU is obviously idiotic.

So what your suggesting is they'll come into Calais and pop over illegally.

and a Brexit will change this in what way ? make illegal immigrants illegal :laugh

LondonManc
12th April 2016, 16:31
So what your suggesting is they'll come into Calais and pop over illegally.

and a Brexit will change this in what way ? make illegal immigrants illegal :laugh

A Brexit would mean that we don't have to bend over and take an EU shafting; no over ruling, etc.

That said, I've yet to see a convincing argument from either side about what will happen if we leave. The Remain campaign prefixes messages of doom with "could" and "might". The Leave campaign highlights having control back. The only definitive positives I've seen for either side are for Leave:
Call Me Dave and Gideon get shafted
Our fishermen get their waters back

Mordac
12th April 2016, 16:35
Who Loses the Most From ‘Brexit’? Try Goldman Sachs - WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/articles/who-loses-the-most-from-brexit-try-goldman-sachs-1460403274)

Among those leading the charge is Goldman Sachs. For three years, the bank’s executives have publicly warned about the downsides of leaving the EU. The bank has donated around $700,000 to a group which is lobbying against Brexit, according to a person familiar with the matter. Its executives have signed warning letters to major British newspapers. An EU flag currently flutters above its London headquarters. Last fall the bank organized events on the sidelines of opposition Labour and governing Conservative party conferences to debate the role of the U.K. in Europe.

During the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum in January in Switzerland, Gary Cohn, president of Goldman Sachs, reiterated a well-rehearsed warning. “It is imperative for the U.K. to keep the financial-services industry in the U.K.,” he said, adding, “I don’t know what would replace that industry.”

The advocacy by U.S. banks has antagonized those, often at smaller brokers or hedge funds, who say the U.K. financial sector would be less heavily regulated outside the EU and thrive. “Why would the Americans be interested in what is good for the U.K.?” said Howard Shore, executive chairman of Shore Capital Group PLC, an investment group. “They are interested in what is good for their bank.”

Vote Brexit and sink the dirty spekulative US banks! :devil

Who gives a flying wotsit what these arses think. I have my own reasons for voting out, it's a shame that these charlatans may benefit, but that's something I will have to just live with...

jamesbrown
12th April 2016, 16:40
When you say we have to be part of an ever closer Union, in what way ?

We're not part of the Euro, we won't be part of a European army, there's no plan to create a European NHS, nor is there a plan to create a European education authority, and there is also no plan to unify criminal law. or create a European police force. There is also no plan to unify taxation apart from minimum rates on VAT which Norway agrees to and they're talking about abolishing, and the UK has an exemption from Schengen.

What exactly do you mean? if we stay what will we be part of that Norway isn't? and surely if the UK gets an exemption from the Euro won't it also get an exemption for anything else similar ?

IMO, it's less about what legislation we may be able to opt out of in future, and more about tying ourselves, indefinitely, into a union that itself admits the need for much closer fiscal (and, therefore, political) integration. A vote to Remain, is an endorsement of that process, regardless of what "opt outs" hamface pretends we might have. Fundamentally, the union will be driven, increasingly, by what makes sense for the Eurozone. This is one reason that I weigh the short-term arguments (e.g. market panic) much less than the long-term ones, because the problems for Remain are in the long-term. Inevitably, the longer we remain in the EU, the more closely connected we'll be (not just through primary and secondary legislation, but through administrative rules than can be imposed without new legislation; this is the difference between the ~13% and ~62% figures on EU-connected legislation from the HoC library). The amount of legislation/rules emanating from a central, administrative, body never goes down, only up. And it will increasingly need to protect the Eurozone.

The question is whether it really matters, in or out. We can't geographically remove ourselves from the European continent. Whatever happens in the Eurozone will happen to us. But the further away we are when it inevitably implodes, the better. Others argue that we're better in, because that implosion is less likely or might be delayed. I don't think so, because the union is structurally flawed and we have only modest influence over it.

Anyone under the illusion that there will be wholesale change following a vote to Leave is probably deluded. For example, there's very little chance that this will actually result in a reduction in immigration. However, at the very least, it will expose a lot of the crap spouted by successive governments about our degree of control over immigration and other areas for which the EU is often used as a scapegoat to our own incompetence. In other words, there will be fewer layers to hide behind, which may motivate the electorate to reject more of the same (or not :laugh).

DimPrawn
12th April 2016, 16:40
Mordac!

I thought MF killed you and buried you under his patio?

Mordac
12th April 2016, 17:01
Think about the various bits of the EU, and come up with a convincing argument as to which ones actually work.
Migration Policy: Basically buggered, no-one knows who's going where or doing what.
Agricultural Policy: Designed by the French for the French. Therefore totally buggered by default.
Fisheries Policy: See previous answer (although replace French with Spanish)
EU Convention on Human Rights: Great if you're a terrorist, but of sod all use to the rest of us.
Trade: The UK is the 2nd largest export market for the German economy. Germany runs the EU, let's face it, and if there's one thing the Germans are NOT, it's stupid. As an American might say, you do the maths.
Tax: Basically buggered. Nominally the corp tax rate in Luxembourg is 29%, but the key is what can be written off. Almost no company pays more than about 12%, so if tax is the reason to stay in the EU, you're looking in the wrong place (and at the wrong argument).
Economy: Thanks to Greece / Spain / Italy / Ireland / Portugal etc. see previous answer.

Any other suggestions which I can knock down?

jamesbrown
12th April 2016, 17:08
EU Convention on Human Rights: Great if you're a terrorist, but of sod all use to the rest of us.

It's actually worse than this. The EU Charter operates alongside the European Convention, which is ridiculously complicated (the former extends the latter). The former receives its power through the EU institutions (notably the ECJ), which allows a lot of the "crap" associated with the Charter to override British laws.

OwlHoot
12th April 2016, 17:10
The Conservative party will fall apart, I think that's pretty clear and we can see in the recent polls, Corbyn is making headway, with a broken Conservative party should be a wheeze. People are getting used to him.

Or perhaps Boris Johnson will step into the breach. :yay:

Or maybe the Labour party will see sensesanity in time and vote for Kate Hoey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Hoey) as leader.



Hoey is a Eurosceptic and libertarian, and has often rebelled against her party.[3] She was a prominent critic of the ban on handguns[4] and supporter of fox hunting[4] and has voted against government policy on the war in Iraq, foundation hospitals, university tuition and top-up fees, ID cards and extended detention without trial. She was a leading Labour rebel supporting a referendum on the EU Lisbon Treaty.[5] Hoey has also opposed the smoking ban in clubs and pubs, reclassification of cannabis from a Class B to Class C and originally opposed devolution. She also favours stricter controls on immigration, tougher welfare reform, withdrawal from the European Union, English Votes for English Laws, grammar schools, marriage tax allowances, free schools and academies. She is a critic of the BBC and she also spoke in support of the election of unionist MPs in Northern Ireland. It has been suggested that because of her own political positions, she might defect to Conservative Party[6][7][8] or even UKIP[9] but Hoey has refused to do so.

OwlHoot
12th April 2016, 17:13
As someone said travel is the only way to spend money and come back richer.

Were they working as an all expenses paid travel rep for Thomas Cook?

Someone else said "Travel may broaden the mind, but it narrows the wallet" :eyes

vetran
12th April 2016, 17:15
So what your suggesting is they'll come into Calais and pop over illegally.

and a Brexit will change this in what way ? make illegal immigrants illegal :laugh

nope it will make them the EU's problem, we can just pull up the drawbridge.

BlasterBates
12th April 2016, 20:59
nope it will make them the EU's problem, we can just pull up the drawbridge.

Right shut all the ports, airports and the channel tunnel.

Of course !

:laugh

vetran
12th April 2016, 21:28
Right shut all the ports, airports and the channel tunnel.

Of course !

:laugh

or just open the doors and grunt as Merkel sends them to us.

Mordac
12th April 2016, 21:48
Mordac!

I thought MF killed you and buried you under his patio?

He tried, but he couldn't even get that right...:winker:

Mordac
12th April 2016, 23:28
As someone said travel is the only way to spend money and come back richer.

Yes, but I think you'll find it was the late Howard Marks who said (and lived) that...

LandRover
13th April 2016, 00:31
Just to give Cameron the shove towards the exit door and then enjoy watching Osborne being rejected :happy is enough a reason for me.

Anyway, wouldn't leaving mean our MPs would have to actually start doing some work too.

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 04:58
Just to give Cameron the shove towards the exit door and then enjoy watching Osborne being rejected :happy is enough a reason for me.

Anyway, wouldn't leaving mean our MPs would have to actually start doing some work too.

If you know how the EU and the UK parliament works you would realise they do already.

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 04:59
or just open the doors and grunt as Merkel sends them to us.

It's the "lovely" French and Belgiums who are helping to keep them of British soil.

bobspud
13th April 2016, 05:08
My reasons:

Better border control and less immigration.

The exit could crash the debt housing bubble.

Dream on. This country sold out while you were still at school. The only people that need to beg to bring in workers are your local takeaway. I went to see a large Indian outsourced in the docklands a few years back and I swear the only other indigenous guy I saw was on reception. The rest of the place seemed to be staffed entirely from Indians on ICT visas in or out of Europe that's going to continue.

PurpleGorilla
13th April 2016, 05:32
Dream on. This country sold out while you were still at school. The only people that need to beg to bring in workers are your local takeaway. I went to see a large Indian outsourced in the docklands a few years back and I swear the only other indigenous guy I saw was on reception. The rest of the place seemed to be staffed entirely from Indians on ICT visas in or out of Europe that's going to continue.

I don't have a problem with this, they are legal migrants, on work visas, highly skilled, and hopefully paying UK taxes. Happy to have controlled immigration of this nature.

BlasterBates
13th April 2016, 06:30
or just open the doors and grunt as Merkel sends them to us.

You are aware aren't you that the UK has border controls and any Turk travelling to the UK can be refused entry, because the German agreement doesn't include Britain.

So how will a Brexit help exactly ?

PurpleGorilla
13th April 2016, 07:47
You are aware aren't you that the UK has border controls and any Turk travelling to the UK can be refused entry, because the German agreement doesn't include Britain.

So how will a Brexit help exactly ?

If I was Germany I would be running the passport printing press 24/7.

Once EU citizens they can all come to the UK!

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 07:50
I don't have a problem with this, they are legal migrants, on work visas, highly skilled, and hopefully paying UK taxes. Happy to have controlled immigration of this nature.

Well you clearly haven't worked alongside some if you think they are all highly skilled. Having a degree doesn't mean you are highly skilled if you cannot actually apply the knowledge you have learnt.

And no they don't pay UK income tax and NI. That's why their rates are so cheap. At least the French, Germans, Spanish, Polish etc pay UK income tax and NI on their wages.

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 07:55
If I was Germany I would be running the passport printing press 24/7.

Once EU citizens they can all come to the UK!

Why you scared they are more qualified than you and will take your job?

I wouldn't worry those with your qualifications will stay in Germany as they can buy a nice big house like the babyboomers have in the UK.

The rest of them won't want to live in the sticks where you live.

sasguru
13th April 2016, 07:58
I don't have a problem with this, they are legal migrants, on work visas, highly skilled, and hopefully paying UK taxes. Happy to have controlled immigration of this nature.

Jeez you're naive as well as thick, a terrible combination.
It's just as well that of the thousands of Indians who have come here on ICT visas, only a handful are any good.
However given your level of intellect, it's likely you will be competing with them rather than a PhD from France.

vetran
13th April 2016, 08:09
You are aware aren't you that the UK has border controls and any Turk travelling to the UK can be refused entry, because the German agreement doesn't include Britain.

So how will a Brexit help exactly ?

as mentioned above a remain vote will be taken as a mandate to complete the European experiment. We will lose our opt outs faster than NLYUKs loses knickers.

Also as a member of the EU we will be expected to take a few anyway.

PurpleGorilla
13th April 2016, 08:13
Why you scared they are more qualified than you and will take your job?

I wouldn't worry those with your qualifications will stay in Germany as they can buy a nice big house like the babyboomers have in the UK.

The rest of them won't want to live in the sticks where you live.

I'm happy to have a points based migration system, as per the US, Australia, etc.

PurpleGorilla
13th April 2016, 08:15
Jeez you're naive as well as thick, a terrible combination.
It's just as well that of the thousands of Indians who have come here on ICT visas, only a handful are any good.
However given your level of intellect, it's likely you will be competing with them rather than a PhD from France.

I don't work in IT, so no I haven't experienced this.

Isn't skilled migration a good thing though, as long as it is controlled?

sasguru
13th April 2016, 08:20
I don't work in IT, so no I haven't experienced this.



What are you doing on this forum, then? Feck off.

vetran
13th April 2016, 08:22
I'm happy to have a points based migration system, as per the US, Australia, etc.

Isn't it funny how the remains justify migration that is designed to be uncontrolled by pointing at a controlled migration system that is being abused.

Its like saying oh look someone took an extra tomato from the salad cart I'm going to invade Belgium.

vetran
13th April 2016, 08:23
What are you doing on this forum, then? Feck off.

well you are broken but you won't.

NotAllThere
13th April 2016, 08:25
What are you doing on this forum, then? Feck off.contractoruk.com Not itcontractoruk.com

PurpleGorilla
13th April 2016, 08:26
What are you doing on this forum, then? Feck off.

So you need to be an IT contractor to post on Contractor UK?

sasguru
13th April 2016, 08:26
well you are broken but you won't.

I am a genuine contractor unlike you, however.

sasguru
13th April 2016, 08:27
So you need to be an IT contractor to post on Contractor UK?

Originally I suppose so, but now I suppose it's become a forum for all sorts of misfits.

NotAllThere
13th April 2016, 08:27
You are aware aren't you that the UK has border controls and any Turk travelling to the UK can be refused entry, because the German agreement doesn't include Britain.

So how will a Brexit help exactly ?If I was Germany I would be running the passport printing press 24/7.

Once EU citizens they can all come to the UK!But Germany aren't doing that and are highly unlikely to ever do that. So, once again, how exactly will a Brexit help prevent the Turkish hordes invading?

PurpleGorilla
13th April 2016, 08:28
Isn't it funny how the remains justify migration that is designed to be uncontrolled by pointing at a controlled migration system that is being abused.

Its like saying oh look someone took an extra tomato from the salad cart I'm going to invade Belgium.

I'm voting to leave mate.

Not sure if the Australian and US systems are perfect (unlikely); but my impression is that they have more control than we have of our immigration.

I'm not against immigration; just limit the numbers and only let in the best.

vetran
13th April 2016, 08:29
I am a genuine arse unlike you, however.

FTFY

PurpleGorilla
13th April 2016, 08:29
I am a genuine contractor unlike you, however.

How so?

vetran
13th April 2016, 08:29
I'm voting to leave mate.

I know I was agreeing with you.

sasguru
13th April 2016, 08:31
How so?

I know you're a Gen Yer so think the world revolves around you, but I was responding to vetran (sic) the permie.

PurpleGorilla
13th April 2016, 08:37
I know I was agreeing with you.

Ha ha, excellent.

PurpleGorilla
13th April 2016, 08:37
I know you're a Gen Yer so think the world revolves around you, but I was responding to vetran (sic) the permie.

Vetran's earned his stripes.

bobspud
13th April 2016, 08:41
I don't have a problem with this, they are legal migrants, on work visas, highly skilled, and hopefully paying UK taxes. Happy to have controlled immigration of this nature.

Thats pretty short sighted. First off the reason you can't afford a house is that these arrangements have been used as an economic weapon against you to ensure that your rates are kept as low as possible. Secondly they are not here as skilled workers that pay taxes. The standard arrangement for these guys is that they pay NO tax as the companies in question pay a minimum wage that exempts them from TAX in this country and at home and then provides a Tax Free daily allowance to them just like the allowances that have been removed from contractors that use Umbrella companies...

You need to gain some worldly understanding about the politics because the baby boomers are most definitely screwing you but at the moment you don't even know how they are pulling it off...

vetran
13th April 2016, 08:46
Thats pretty short sighted. First off the reason you can't afford a house is that these arrangements have been used as an economic weapon against you to ensure that your rates are kept as low as possible. Secondly they are not here as skilled workers that pay taxes. The standard arrangement for these guys is that they pay NO tax as the companies in question pay a minimum wage that exempts them from TAX in this country and at home and then provides a Tax Free daily allowance to them just like the allowances that have been removed from contractors that use Umbrella companies...

You need to gain some worldly understanding about the politics because the baby boomers are most definitely screwing you but at the moment you don't even know how they are pulling it off...


Two wrongs don't make a right.

We are talking about Brexit, once that is sorted we can sort out ICTs. If you notice its sorting itself out as many companies are bringing outsourced stuff back in due to the bad experience they had.

Currently the bottom end labour is being undercut by cheap eastern european workers.

BlasterBates
13th April 2016, 08:46
If I was Germany I would be running the passport printing press 24/7.

Once EU citizens they can all come to the UK!

It takes 8 years to be eligible for a German passport and they need to speak fluent German, so they won't exactly be piling in in June.

NotAllThere
13th April 2016, 08:54
Isn't it funny how the remains justify migration that is designed to be uncontrolled by pointing at a controlled migration system that is being abused.

Its like saying oh look someone took an extra tomato from the salad cart I'm going to invade Belgium.I'm voting to leave mate.... I know I was agreeing with you.Ha ha, excellent.




I am a genuine contractor unlike you, however.How so? I know you're a Gen Yer so think the world revolves around you, but I was responding to vetran (sic) the permie.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/65390461.jpg

sasguru
13th April 2016, 08:59
We are talking about Brexit, once that is sorted we can sort out ICTs..

:laugh:laugh
That made me laugh. Who's the "we" who can sort out out ICTs?
You're almost as naive as PG.
ICTs are brought in by the big corporations, they are driven by the size of markets, a lot of them are only in the UK because it's a part of Europe and its easier to hire and fire here than on the continent.
Once Brexit occurs, the calculation will be made, what's the size of the market here?
It's miniscule, if there aren't more middle class people in India, say, with the spending power of the UK, there soon will be.
If you are a CEO, what's your motivation for setting up in a Brexit UK?
So you're right, there probably won't be any ICTs, because this won't be the base of many corporations :laugh

Of course there are centres of excellence in the UK, based around the universities, that will always attract companies for the talent, but this isn't going to help the lower paid and less skilled - there is just no incentive for large corporations to be based here after Brexit, unless we compete on low wages.

DimPrawn
13th April 2016, 10:26
Poll putting Brexit camp ahead knocks back sterling | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-markets-inflation-idUKKCN0X90Q6)


Sterling handed back early morning gains on Tuesday after an opinion poll showed the "Out" campaign three points in front before June's referendum on whether Britain should remain in the European Union.

The ICM poll was the latest to show the "Out" camp ahead or tied.

People are waking up to the reality of being Germany's island monkey biatch, and want a self governing country for the first time in a generation.

:yay:

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 10:28
Poll putting Brexit camp ahead knocks back sterling | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-markets-inflation-idUKKCN0X90Q6)



People are waking up to the reality of being Germany's island monkey biatch, and want a self governing country for the first time in a generation.

:yay:

No one's polled me.

vetran
13th April 2016, 10:30
No one's polled me.

oh dear, must resist smutty remark.....

KentDogWalker
13th April 2016, 10:37
less foreign contractors = higher rates for Uk'ers!

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 10:38
less foreign contractors = higher rates for Uk'ers!

Less foreign contractors = move work abroad

vetran
13th April 2016, 10:39
Less foreign contractors = move work abroad

already happening we have a huge centre in Eastern Europe & are hiring like crazy.

Chuck
13th April 2016, 10:44
already happening we have a huge centre in Eastern Europe & are hiring like crazy.

The move to Eastern Europe is not good for us (in IT anyway). They are generally well educated, highly motivated, and very competent.

The move to India was purely a cost consideration. The move to Poland etc is much more than that.

Expect a lot more of this.

OwlHoot
13th April 2016, 10:50
Poll putting Brexit camp ahead knocks back sterling | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-markets-inflation-idUKKCN0X90Q6)



an opinion poll showed the "Out" campaign three points in front before June's referendum
:yay:

Oh flip, I hope the brexit share hasn't peaked too early. :eyes

These polls have a habit of swinging up and down in the run up to a vote.

vetran
13th April 2016, 10:55
The move to Eastern Europe is not good for us (in IT anyway). They are generally well educated, highly motivated, and very competent.

The move to India was purely a cost consideration. The move to Poland etc is much more than that.

Expect a lot more of this.

they also 'get it' the culture is sufficiently similar that interchanging ideas is easy.

TestMangler
13th April 2016, 10:55
less foreign contractors = higher rates for Uk'ers!

But only literate ones. The word you were looking for was 'fewer'.

Flashman
13th April 2016, 12:37
Remainders scarping the barrel now....


Chorizo prices set to rocket if Britain Leaves Europe - Families will be Better Off In.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cf36Ed4XIAAjzOa.jpg

https://twitter.com/StrongerInTheEU/status/720006470969004033

:rolleyes:

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 12:41
But only literate ones. The word you were looking for was 'fewer'.

Shall I do an updation?

TestMangler
13th April 2016, 12:43
Shall I do an updation?

Yes. Please be doing the doings and the needful.

sasguru
13th April 2016, 12:57
Yes. Please be doing the doings and the needful.

I shall indeed do so and revert.

DodgyAgent
13th April 2016, 13:07
:laugh:laugh
That made me laugh. Who's the "we" who can sort out out ICTs?
You're almost as naive as PG.
ICTs are brought in by the big corporations, they are driven by the size of markets, a lot of them are only in the UK because it's a part of Europe and its easier to hire and fire here than on the continent.
Once Brexit occurs, the calculation will be made, what's the size of the market here?
It's miniscule, if there aren't more middle class people in India, say, with the spending power of the UK, there soon will be.
If you are a CEO, what's your motivation for setting up in a Brexit UK?
So you're right, there probably won't be any ICTs, because this won't be the base of many corporations :laugh

Of course there are centres of excellence in the UK, based around the universities, that will always attract companies for the talent, but this isn't going to help the lower paid and less skilled - there is just no incentive for large corporations to be based here after Brexit, unless we compete on low wages.

The question of course is how do we know what they are being paid or charged for living as they do not pay tax in the UK

Thousands of Indian professionals in UK face uncertain future over new visa rules - Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/other-news/thousands-of-indian-professionals-in-uk-face-uncertain-future-over-new-visa-rules/articleshow/51686751.cms?utm_source=toimobile&utm_medium=Linkedin&utm_campaign=referral)

NotAllThere
13th April 2016, 13:46
The question of course is how do we know what they are being paid or charged for living as they do not pay tax in the UK

Thousands of Indian professionals in UK face uncertain future over new visa rules - Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/other-news/thousands-of-indian-professionals-in-uk-face-uncertain-future-over-new-visa-rules/articleshow/51686751.cms?utm_source=toimobile&utm_medium=Linkedin&utm_campaign=referral)


Kesavan, employed as an audiologist in the UK, said, "I have been working and living in the UK for the past six years. I came here on a student visa to do my Masters degree after which I started working for NHS (National Health Service) for the past four and half years on a senior position.Straight from a Masters degree to a senior position in the NHS on less than 35K... hmmmmmm.

Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.

DimPrawn
13th April 2016, 14:05
Straight from a Masters degree to a senior position in the NHS on less than 35K... hmmmmmm.

Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.

What's the incentive for any bright UK person to enter the field of medicine, untertake many years of training and exams, when the NHS would rather order 100,000 people from India to work on the lowest wages possible?

I would auction the ICT to the highest bidders and use the money raised so that degress that fulfill skills shortages are funded without student debt.

Otherwise we might as well all go on the social and fill every job in the UK with immigrants working for 3rd World pay.

OwlHoot
13th April 2016, 14:43
What's the incentive for any bright UK person to enter the field of medicine, untertake many years of training and exams, when the NHS would rather order 100,000 people from India to work on the lowest wages possible? ...

On the other side of the coin, what is the incentive for the Government to pay indigenous people for years of expensive medical training when as likely as not they'll hoof it off to the US as soon as they have passed their final exams and earn a fortune?

DodgyAgent
13th April 2016, 14:49
On the other side of the coin, what is the incentive for the Government to pay indigenous people for years of expensive medical training when as likely as not they'll hoof it off to the US as soon as they have passed their final exams and earn a fortune?

Either way people will always need an agent

http://www.clinteastwood.net/realmediafiles/soundclips/bellringer.mp3

:happy

vetran
13th April 2016, 14:51
On the other side of the coin, what is the incentive for the Government to pay indigenous people for years of expensive medical training when as likely as not they'll hoof it off to the US as soon as they have passed their final exams and earn a fortune?

so long as they pay handsomely for their training then great that's a service we can sell to the world.

WTFH
13th April 2016, 14:52
Either way people will always need a travel agent

http://www.clinteastwood.net/realmediafiles/soundclips/bellringer.mp3

:happy

FTFY

darmstadt
13th April 2016, 14:54
Mind you, Brexiters are slightly moronic: Electoral Commission | Designation of lead campaigners for the EU referendum (http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/upcoming-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/designation-of-lead-campaigners-for-the-eu-referendum)

Due to this:


Grassroots Out, the Leave group that lost the competition to be designated as the lead Leave campaign, seems to be split. Peter Bone, a spokesman, has issued a statement congratulating Vote Leave and he has just appeared on Sky News with the same message.


But Andy Wigmore, head of communications for Leave.EU, the group set up by the Ukip donor Arron Banks which is the main group behind the Grassroots Out coalition, has said that Banks is taking legal advice on whether the decision can be challenged. Wigmore told Huffington Post:

We are going to appeal it, which could delay the referendum until October 23.
We think it’s a political stitch-up.

jamesbrown
13th April 2016, 14:56
Mind you, Brexiters are slightly moronic

True but, fortunately, they're slightly less moronic (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35707955) than the remainiacs :D

darmstadt
13th April 2016, 17:47
True but, fortunately, they're slightly less moronic (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35707955) than the remainiacs :D

They had one thing to do, and they couldn't get that right :laugh And so the squabbling continues, like a bunch of children and that's what the 'outers' want to be governed by :laugh:wink:laugh

jamesbrown
13th April 2016, 18:02
They had one thing to do, and they couldn't get that right :laugh And so the squabbling continues, like a bunch of children and that's what the 'outers' want to be governed by :laugh:wink:laugh

At least we know the names of our campaign groups :rollin: Anyway, the remainiacs are making all of our arguments for us. Bless.

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 18:47
At least we know the names of our campaign groups :rollin: Anyway, the remainiacs are making all of our arguments for us. Bless.

I'm making arguments for no-one.

This is just a replay of the Scottish referendum....

darmstadt
13th April 2016, 19:29
I'm making arguments for no-one.

This is just a replay of the Scottish referendum....

I'm thinking that it might be like the last General Election where the gullible British public got taken in by the media and are now paying for it :laugh

jamesbrown
13th April 2016, 19:56
I'm making arguments for no-one.

This is just a replay of the Scottish referendum....

Probably, but a lower turnout would be a critical difference, as age is the only established correlation with voting preference. I expect a high turnout in Scotland and NI, but probably not in Wales or England. The rule of thumb is a 10-point lead in the polls to overcome the status quo, and Leave doesn't have that, even adjusted for turnout. However, I think it will be closer than the Scottish ref. We'll see. Anyway, I'm taking a sizeable punt on Remain to console myself.

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 20:44
Time to load up on BTL then

Corbyn will not let you run a BTL. Rents will be regulated, at less than your own cost.

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 20:46
Diversification is the name of the game - selling one of three, proceeds to go into other investments.
Got portable enough skills to get a job in Switzerland/Germany.
If Brexit happens will watch with interest, from elsewhere.

You may first need to find somebody willing to sponsor your visa in order to work there.

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 20:49
If we stay in it will be taken as a vote for 'ever closer union' the European experiment will continue.

Few in the EU are keen on the 'ever closer' thing, except for Belgium. Merkel has been known to tell the Belgians that they would need to make their own country 'ever closer' first - that is short for "never on my watch".

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 20:53
We voted to join a common market in 1975.

No we didn't.

1975 Referendum pamphlet (http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm)

vetran
13th April 2016, 20:59
No we didn't.

1975 Referendum pamphlet (http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm)


Membership of the Common Market also imposes new rights and duties on Britain, but does not deprive us of our national identity.
hmm

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 21:04
EU Convention on Human Rights: Great if you're a terrorist, but of sod all use to the rest of us.

Side note: The European Convention on Human Rights was drafted by the UK.


Tax: Basically buggered. Nominally the corp tax rate in Luxembourg is 29%, but the key is what can be written off. Almost no company pays more than about 12%,

That makes Luxembourg about as good as Ireland and Cyprus, then, but not as good as Malta. They have a headline rate of 35% but that shrinks to 5% for profits paid out as dividends. Correctly structured it can be brought down to 0% (and it usually involves the use of either an English or a Jersey limited company).

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 21:08
nope it will make them the EU's problem, we can just pull up the drawbridge.

We can't. We have outsourced all of them to India.

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 21:13
If I was Germany I would be running the passport printing press 24/7.

Once EU citizens they can all come to the UK!

It won't happen. What they will receive in Germany is asylum and perhaps permanent residency, but not citizenship in many, many years. Obtaining German citizenship is much, much harder than naturalising as British.

They may even add swearing allegiance to pork sausage and beer to the requirements.

jamesbrown
13th April 2016, 21:13
Side note: The EU Convention on Human Rights was drafted by the UK.

Side note: the EU Convention on Human Rights doesn't exist.

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 21:26
Side note: the EU Convention on Human Rights doesn't exist.

People just can't get it into their heads the difference between the European Court of Human Rights and European Court of Justice.

It's easy to remember Ukraine* is a signatory of the European Convention on Human Rights which is ruled on by the European Court of Human Rights.

However Ukraine isn't a member of the EU, which has the European Court of Justice to deal with EU law.

*There are other countries but Ukraine is the easiest to remember as it's been in the news a lot recently and not likely to join the EU.

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 21:30
I'm happy to have a points based migration system, as per the US, Australia, etc.

We have already tried that, and it didn't work. Then Australia inherited it from us and it is not quite working out for them either (although they arguably do a bit better).

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 21:32
I am a genuine contractor unlike you, however.

You work in construction?

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 21:36
Two wrongs don't make a right.

We are talking about Brexit, once that is sorted we can sort out ICTs.

ICTs is a British thing that has nothing to do with the EU whatsoever. We can sort out ICTs without even mentioning the EU.

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 21:38
It takes 8 years to be eligible for a German passport and they need to speak fluent German, so they won't exactly be piling in in June.

They also need to embrace German values, which I believe includes sauerkraut, pork, alcohol and Lutheran Christianity.

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 21:42
Shall I do an updation?

The word you are looking for is "updatation".

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 21:55
It's easy to remember Ukraine* is a signatory of the European Convention on Human Rights which is ruled on by the European Court of Human Rights.

However Ukraine isn't a member of the EU, which has the European Court of Justice to deal with EU law.

Russia is also a signatory. The only European country that isn't a signatory to the convention is the dictatorship of Belarus.

Regardless, the European Convention on Human Rights is based on the United Nations's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Leaving the European one would not make much of a difference as the UK is also a signatory of the UN one. Apparently Cameron has a health issue that makes him 'sick to his stomach' to think about it, but leaving a convention will not help curing a medical issue.

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 21:59
The word you are looking for us "updatation".

No updation.

It's Indian English and means the act of updating something.

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 22:03
No updation.

It's Indian English and means the act of updating something.

Oh bugger. I'm not Indian enough. I clearly need another Kingfisher.

In Pidgin (Nigerian) English it is "updating".

AtW
13th April 2016, 22:16
Russia is also a signatory. The only European country that isn't a signatory to the convention is the dictatorship of Belarus.

Yes, but Russia does not give a fook about signed documents if that does not suit them :laugh

SueEllen
13th April 2016, 22:17
Oh bugger. I'm not Indian enough. I clearly need another Kingfisher.

In Pidgin (Nigerian) English it is "updating".

You clearly haven't worked in a multi cultural environment...

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 22:43
Yes, but Russia does not give a fook about signed documents if that does not suit them :laugh

So they are like the French then?

m0n1k3r
13th April 2016, 22:46
You clearly haven't worked in a multi cultural environment...

Married in Africa with a house in Nigeria and having worked on 4 continents I clearly have. Although not in India. In the one Indian-dominated team I have worked with in the UK, the team manager preferred to communicate with his team in Hindi rather than English, which was not much of a help for learning the finer points of 'Indian English'. India + UK would be bicultural rather than multi-cultural.

MrMarkyMark
14th April 2016, 05:04
I don't have a problem with this, they are legal migrants, on work visas, highly skilled, and hopefully paying UK taxes. Happy to have controlled immigration of this nature.

Far off the mark, highly skilled the exception, rather than the norm. Taxes paid, none or very little.

darmstadt
14th April 2016, 18:11
People just can't get it into their heads the difference between the European Court of Human Rights and European Court of Justice.

It's easy to remember Ukraine* is a signatory of the European Convention on Human Rights which is ruled on by the European Court of Human Rights.

However Ukraine isn't a member of the EU, which has the European Court of Justice to deal with EU law.

*There are other countries but Ukraine is the easiest to remember as it's been in the news a lot recently and not likely to join the EU.

People might either want to read this to see what the EU can do in the way of laws: https://fullfact.org/europe/eus-powers/ or as I suspect, they would rather believe the moronic right wing press

SueEllen
14th April 2016, 19:23
People might either want to read this to see what the EU can do in the way of laws: https://fullfact.org/europe/eus-powers/ or as I suspect, they would rather believe the moronic right wing press

People don't read.

If they did they would have got out their smartphone or tablet, and looked it up on Wikipedia.

Also I've only heard one public conversation so far on what the EU has done for ordinary British people.

When I got the government leaflet through I thought at least one of the points would be in the leaflet but nothing was.

So I concluded the UK government is trying to hide the fact it has needed prodding from EU to increase workers rights. Even though sorting out cross border trade regulations is a good thing for businesses of all sizes, and some of our anti-discrimination, health and safety and consumer laws helped to shape the EU directives.

darmstadt
14th April 2016, 20:07
People don't read.



That's probably why the Daily Mail has lots of pictures :happy

darmstadt
14th April 2016, 20:10
I wish I was as clever as the Brexit campaigners: EU Referendum Campaign 'Grassroots Out' Confuses Daily Mail Story For Actual Quote By Brussels Boss (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-campaign-grassroots-out-confuses-daily-mail-story-with-brussels-boss-quote_uk_570f8cd7e4b0b84e2e71ef36)

jamesbrown
14th April 2016, 20:20
I wish I was as clever as the Brexit campaigners: EU Referendum Campaign 'Grassroots Out' Confuses Daily Mail Story For Actual Quote By*Brussels Boss (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-campaign-grassroots-out-confuses-daily-mail-story-with-brussels-boss-quote_uk_570f8cd7e4b0b84e2e71ef36)

Can you remember your name? In that case, you're eminently qualified to lead the Stay in Britain Better in Britain Better Stay in Britain campaign, um, the campaign.

DimPrawn
15th April 2016, 08:11
Bank of England issues stark Brexit warning as former Chancellor warns of 'dark clouds' | UK Politics | News | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-bank-of-england-issues-stark-brexit-warning-as-alistair-darling-forecasts-dark-clouds-a6984956.html)

Alistair Darling doing what worked in the Scottish referendum, laying a picture of doom if we leave.

Hopefully this time we will realise it's utter bollox and the UK will thrive without the stranglehold of the EU round our throats.

scooterscot
15th April 2016, 09:04
Hopefully this time we will realise it's utter bollox and the UK will thrive without the stranglehold of the EU round our throats.

I think someone said something similar during the Scottish referendum. But the dark overlord prevailed.

OwlHoot
15th April 2016, 09:10
People might either want to read this to see what the EU can do in the way of laws: https://fullfact.org/europe/eus-powers/ or as I suspect, they would rather believe the moronic right wing press

As you must know very well, it isn't just the situation today that counts, but how it will inevitably develop if the "in" vote wins.

In that event the EU, and Europhiliacs in the UK, will redouble their efforts to advance their "ever closer union" agenda.

PurpleGorilla
15th April 2016, 09:20
As you must know very well, it isn't just the situation today that counts, but how it will inevitably develop if the "in" vote wins.

In that event the EU, and Europhiliacs in the UK, will redouble their efforts to advance their "ever closer union" agenda.

So true.

Look at the Scottish referendum. What happened to all those promises.

http://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/vow.gif?w=467&h=543

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you like the status quo in this country and want more of the same vote remain. If you want the possibility of some fundamental change, vote leave.

vetran
15th April 2016, 09:27
So true.

Look at the Scottish referendum. What happened to all those promises.

http://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/vow.gif?w=467&h=543

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you like the status quo in this country and want more of the same vote remain. If you want the possibility of some fundamental change, vote leave.

They cancelled the Barnett Formula and withdrew the Scottish Parliament's ability to control tax??

OMG.

Oh Sorry thought you were serious.

DimPrawn
15th April 2016, 09:28
If you want a stonger Soviet Union style EU, vote remain.

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/124000/Stalin-Holding-Angela-Merkel-124161.jpg

northernladyuk
9th June 2017, 09:12
Well, I thought that went well.

Whorty
9th June 2017, 10:58
Well, I thought that went well.

Yup, all the ill educated dimwits that voted Brexit have put the country in the position it is today. But hey, the people have spoken and we have to respect what they say (whatever the hell that means :tongue ).

KentDogWalker
9th June 2017, 11:04
Planning to get my EU passport soon..

northernladyuk
9th June 2017, 11:13
Planning to get my EU passport soon..

April for me.

darmstadt
9th June 2017, 11:19
Planning to get my EU passport soon..

Where is this EU that give out passports?

KentDogWalker
9th June 2017, 11:19
April for me.

to Germania?

KentDogWalker
9th June 2017, 11:20
Where is this EU that give out passports?

You need to be born elsewhere or you can buy one from Malta for ≈1M EUR

northernladyuk
9th June 2017, 11:51
to Germania?

Ireland.

shaunbhoy
9th June 2017, 11:57
the people have spoken and we have to respect what they say (whatever the hell that means :tongue ).

It means NO to IndyRef2 for at least a generation.

At least THAT has been crystalised.
:wink