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DieScum
15th April 2016, 10:23
Has anyone else moved from the pure tech side of IT to the business side?

I've made this transition over the past few years and it's shockingly great. It's hilariously easy and the pay is just as good if not better.

I spent 15 years doing tech stuff. Starting off as a helpdesk money and progressing through to solutions architect for infrastructure stuff. Lots of good times but overall I'd say it was stressful and thankless.

Due to the complexity of IT work it was often stressful. Running through treacle while carrying incompetents on my back. You can do everything competently and then some unknown pops up and you're running around putting out fires till midnight while business people scream down the phone at you. Then Darren the PM gets the thanks for it.

I'd have packages of work come through with no requirements.

I could do good work but because the people who mattered didn't understand it they couldn't differentiate between doing something easy and doing something hard. So you'd get praise for an easy fix but dumped on for taking a time to complete extremely complex work properly.

Now I work on the business side. I get paid more... and it's so easy. It's common sense. Do some powerpoints, some documentation, share info, understand the detail and bigger picture. You are completely in control of the quality of the work and praise is heaped on you if you're sharp with a good work ethic.

It pays just as much, often more.

Most of the skills are generic. So no more laundry lists of tech skills which go out of date after a few years.

I sometimes browse through confluence and just wince at what the devs, consultant and support staff go through. Today they were openly fighting on a mailing list due to project stress, the support notes contain things like "We all know this is a difficult time, but focus on keeping our heads, do one job at a time properly. We will increase head count and get through this busy period", the entire systems went down for a bit last week and devs were running around putting out fires.

I just tip toe through the tulips doing fluffy, subjective stuff that is under my control.

It's hilarious, but someone has to do it. It's valuable and required.

Anyone else moved away from pure tech?

Troll
15th April 2016, 10:27
Yup

Got tired with keeping up with the latest techie bolloxs

Now just manage the techies, lots and lots of presentations, author beautifully crated documents & then get all the credit for deliveries plus get to knob all the pretty young girlie graduates

(one of those was made up)

DimPrawn
15th April 2016, 10:28
Excellent post. My intention if plan b fails is to move to the business side of things. Having worked with some management in my last contract, it's amazing how easy and how little they actually do. The pay is on par with top contract rates but with an incredibly easy life.

As you say, creating powerpoints, jawboning in meetings all day, updating information on confluence and jira, video conferencing to other managers, all pretty easy stuff.

Any advice how to make the transition?

PurpleGorilla
15th April 2016, 10:35
Excellent post. My intention if plan b fails is to move to the business side of things. Having worked with some management in my last contract, it's amazing how easy and how little they actually do. The pay is on par with top contract rates but with an incredibly easy life.

As you say, creating powerpoints, jawboning in meetings all day, updating information on confluence and jira, video conferencing to other managers, all pretty easy stuff.

Any advice how to make the transition?

Wear a suit, connect with all the management via LinkedIn, and start using the executive's printer for all your work.

FTS.

DieScum
15th April 2016, 10:38
Any advice how to make the transition?

I just starting applying for stuff that sounded like the path I wanted to go down. I was coming back after a big gap (16 months mainly due to waiting on a visa). Spent four months applying for stuff but decided that I didn't like what I was doing before and may as well go for the more business side. Took a lower role, fixed term contract, and within a couple of years worked my way up to a decent level.

Very hard to go through actually, but once you're there worth it - and now I seem pretty set.

DimPrawn
15th April 2016, 10:40
The world of tech is looking like this:

https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/ea8bd261-4d0e-48fb-a8a1-a24bc6245e69-large.png

SimonMac
15th April 2016, 10:42
The world of tech is looking like this:

https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/ea8bd261-4d0e-48fb-a8a1-a24bc6245e69-large.png

Who signs the timesheets though?

vetran
15th April 2016, 10:50
Who signs the timesheets though?

the monkey throws fresh Faeces at you, attach to timesheet = double win.

Its not like the management team know what they want.

unemployed
15th April 2016, 11:03
Has anyone else moved from the pure tech side of IT to the business side?

I've made this transition over the past few years and it's shockingly great. It's hilariously easy and the pay is just as good if not better.

I spent 15 years doing tech stuff. Starting off as a helpdesk money and progressing through to solutions architect for infrastructure stuff. Lots of good times but overall I'd say it was stressful and thankless.

Due to the complexity of IT work it was often stressful. Running through treacle while carrying incompetents on my back. You can do everything competently and then some unknown pops up and you're running around putting out fires till midnight while business people scream down the phone at you. Then Darren the PM gets the thanks for it.

I'd have packages of work come through with no requirements.

I could do good work but because the people who mattered didn't understand it they couldn't differentiate between doing something easy and doing something hard. So you'd get praise for an easy fix but dumped on for taking a time to complete extremely complex work properly.

Now I work on the business side. I get paid more... and it's so easy. It's common sense. Do some powerpoints, some documentation, share info, understand the detail and bigger picture. You are completely in control of the quality of the work and praise is heaped on you if you're sharp with a good work ethic.

It pays just as much, often more.

Most of the skills are generic. So no more laundry lists of tech skills which go out of date after a few years.

I sometimes browse through confluence and just wince at what the devs, consultant and support staff go through. Today they were openly fighting on a mailing list due to project stress, the support notes contain things like "We all know this is a difficult time, but focus on keeping our heads, do one job at a time properly. We will increase head count and get through this busy period", the entire systems went down for a bit last week and devs were running around putting out fires.

I just tip toe through the tulips doing fluffy, subjective stuff that is under my control.

It's hilarious, but someone has to do it. It's valuable and required.

Anyone else moved away from pure tech?


got any jobs going :rollin:

DimPrawn
15th April 2016, 11:04
Who signs the timesheets though?

http://img.mylot.com/1044213.jpg

Troll
15th April 2016, 11:13
The world of tech is looking like this:

https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/ea8bd261-4d0e-48fb-a8a1-a24bc6245e69-large.png

Brill ! made a small fortune migrating companies to the Cloud for companies
I'm now making more wonga moving stuff out of the Cloud for companies

Fill yer bots

Hobosapien
15th April 2016, 13:52
Any advice how to make the transition?

Watch The Secret of My Success (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093936/).

Just make sure it's the executive water fountain you're drinking from and not the bidet.

DallasDad
15th April 2016, 18:38
OP you are describing the phenomena I have recognised in myself over the last 20 years or so..... I call it getting old!

Dallas
16th April 2016, 03:31
Yes

Shush, they will all want in. :smokin

MrMarkyMark
16th April 2016, 05:22
Yep, pretty much in my last role, turned out to be very lucrative 3.5 years.
Built a team, mainly of friends, provided tech lead, estimates, crucified people and delivered plenty. I didn't speak to my client co "handler", directly, for the last 4 months.

Bliss :smokin

MarillionFan
16th April 2016, 06:45
I've been on the business side for 20 years. I have enough technical skills to be dangerous & excellent business skills. This's means I am normally referred to as shadow IT but I have carved out a niche as an expert in start ups, putting in processes, systems and BI/analytics.

As the startups get bigger I am considered to be a thorn in the side of any CIO and they come gunning. Like now.

Time for a new startup methinks.

Hobosapien
16th April 2016, 07:42
Time for a new startup methinks.


I was recently wondering why no one on here tried to organise a CUK startup.

Across the board there's got to be enough skills to fill all the necessary roles.

Even the walters have a chance to prove their worth by helping with the funding or GTFO.

Hardest thing will be coming up with a SKA. That's one's been done.

MarillionFan
16th April 2016, 07:49
I was recently wondering why no one on here tried to organise a CUK startup.

Across the board there's got to be enough skills to fill all the necessary roles.

Even the walters have a chance to prove their worth by helping with the funding or GTFO.

Hardest thing will be coming up with a SKA. That's one's been done.


Because contractors are self centered money grabbers.


There's no way you could get a group to give their time without each one of them wanting a fortune to do it.

Hobosapien
16th April 2016, 08:04
Because contractors are self centered money grabbers.


There's no way you could get a group to give their time without each one of them wanting a fortune to do it.


Wouldn't fall for the 'you can have shares instead of money' ruse?

Not many billionaires came out on top from that type of deal.

DieScum
16th April 2016, 08:06
Have to admit I feel a certain amount of survivor guilt. I see the pure tech guys out there in the trenches and I feel for them. Place I'm at one of the lead consultants on a key new project just left. I can sympathise with the months of dreadful implementations of dreadful new code that caused him to jump - now they've just lost all that experience at a vital time.

I feel like I've been pulled off the battlefield and now I'm sitting at a desk doing intelligence work while the war is raging on outside (to be overly dramatic).

I'm adding way more value on this side though.

I'd say most people on the business side aren't that strong and the skillset you need to be good on the technical side can really transfer over well (although most people on tech side aren't good). Most people struggle to pick up moderately complex topics quickly, are really poor at communicating those concepts and don't even grasp how important sharing information is. Rather than understanding the nature of complexity and the inevitable difficulties in delivering complex work they blame others or hide.

I remember years ago a bloke I worked with talked about how he wanted to get a cosy middle manager position and put his feet up. It disgusted me a lot - like, is that what you really want from your career? To just be one of the stuffed shirts. A bit of me feels like I've gone that way but just because staying on the battlefield is insane. You can't last, you either give up and settle into mediocrity or burn out. Most people settle from the start though.

But now I'm doing great work, really making a difference, and the worst wound I'm going to get is a bit of internal politics which I've spent years learning how to get round on the tech side anyway. (Again apologies for the ridiculous warfare analogies.)

Hobosapien
16th April 2016, 08:18
I see the pure tech guys out there in the trenches and I feel for them.


I feel same for the management drones who have to endure endless meetings, producing documents that no one reads, then they're first to have to re-apply for their own jobs when there's a shake up and they need to cut body count. :laugh

I suppose you're in the middle of the two hells somewhere, but on the 'paper shuffler' career path the perils of going into management loom. Step carefully.

DieScum
16th April 2016, 08:26
I suppose you're in the middle of the two hells somewhere, but on the 'paper shuffler' career path the perils of going into management loom. Step carefully.

Yep, middle management is a fresh hell I intend to assiduously avoid. The good ones do very well though - and they stand out like a sore thumb.

MarillionFan
16th April 2016, 08:35
Yep, middle management is a fresh hell I intend to assiduously avoid. The good ones do very well though - and they stand out like a sore thumb.

There are benefits. I realised years ago that my tech skillset was going out of date and as I constantly contracted on my existing skillset I couldn't keep up.

But hang worked directly on the business side after a number of years when I gigged and came across the same issues & incompetent managers again & again I was able to drive them as well. Obviously they took the kudos and you did the work.

So after a couple of stints in management positions I moved into my current role which is quite senior, but I kept being hands on, doing prototypes / mashups / advanced analysis. So to my team I look super hands on, to the business they think I'm one of the super smarts and to IT I'm a thorn.

I like my teams to get the Kudos for their own work, I keep out of the limelight & tinker. But as my new VP said to me last month, I want you to manage and be front facing or if you want to do the tech stuff you can **** off to IT!, I will be choosing a different path imminently.

MarillionFan
16th April 2016, 08:40
Plus I have one blot on my contracting career. I have a 40-39-1 interview record. Having failed to get a gig for the first time 4 years ago after the interview for a £1k a day role working with the executive board of a large FTSE company because I didn't have enough Senior experience, I plan to correct that loss later this year. :fight:

PurpleGorilla
16th April 2016, 08:46
Surely the holy grail is 'consultant'.

Waft in on a huge rate.

A blend of tech and project experience.

Show the dark arts to the techs, and spell bind the mgt.

I don't want to be a tech monkey or a middle manager.

I want to be the guy who turns up in the white Porsche who blinds people with his brilliance.

DieScum
16th April 2016, 09:16
There are benefits. I realised years ago that my tech skillset was going out of date and as I constantly contracted on my existing skillset I couldn't keep up.

Yep, switching to an evergreen, but still valuable, skillset is the smart move. Some of the laundry lists of skills you see advertised makes me laugh/wince. Especially when you look at the actual skills most people on those teams have.


So after a couple of stints in management positions I moved into my current role which is quite senior, but I kept being hands on, doing prototypes / mashups / advanced analysis. So to my team I look super hands on, to the business they think I'm one of the super smarts and to IT I'm a thorn.

It's a fine line to walk. You want to make IT's life easier but not start getting in to stuff that you're not in position to evaluate the full consequences of. Messed it up a few times but I think I've got the right balance now.

DieScum
16th April 2016, 09:21
Surely the holy grail is 'consultant'.

Waft in on a huge rate.

A blend of tech and project experience.

Show the dark arts to the techs, and spell bind the mgt.

I don't want to be a tech monkey or a middle manager.

I want to be the guy who turns up in the white Porsche who blinds people with his brilliance.

I dunno. That's just being a contract solution architect/dev lead, etc.

Think you're better off out of it altogether. The projects that rely on a hero are very, very bad projects.

You either die a hero (but they'll spit on your grave if they see an easy out) or live to become the villain.

There's easier ways to make a living.

MrMarkyMark
16th April 2016, 09:43
I want to be the guy who turns up in the white Porsche who everyone thinks is a total feckin, arrogant, twunt .

Been everything from Principle Consultant, BI Architect, Technical Lead, I'll be anything they want me to be as long as the moneys right.

A proper corporate whore :smokin

greenlake
16th April 2016, 17:52
I want to be the guy who turns up in the white Porsche who blinds people with his brilliance.

How about a blue one....?

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/blogs/wiredenterprise/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/rm-rf.jpg

PurpleGorilla
16th April 2016, 19:02
How about a blue one....?

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/blogs/wiredenterprise/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/rm-rf.jpg

Not bad, but I was thinking more like this;

http://cdn.pinthiscars.com/images/porsche-boxster-2014-white-wallpaper-8.jpg