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rl4engc
29th June 2016, 15:56
Closed on 16,000, up 500 points in a day, a day where the government and opposition are looking like they couldn't organise a nun shoot in a nunnery. Linky (http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/Index/MCX?countrycode=UK)

What were all the Remainers going on about again? Something about UK blah blah Doom and Gloom blah blah Should have Remained etc.

Can't be arsed digging up some EU/German charts but they're basically all flat lining. :rolleyes:

Danglekt
29th June 2016, 16:01
I read this article with interest from a Brexiter.

Brexit won't happen in the end – here's why | Voices | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wont-really-happen-second-referendum-markets-value-housing-pound-a7106996.html)

DISCUSS.

xoggoth
29th June 2016, 16:05
That picture!!!

:puke:

rl4engc
29th June 2016, 16:09
I read this article with interest from a Brexiter.

There's no going back now, we're on the naughty step of Europe Germany and France, to let us back in would send a clear message to any other nations thinking of leaving that the The E.U. Germany and France, are weak and that they have to reform to better consider the needs of it's members diverse spectrum of people.

Which they aren't and won't. Obviously. :grin

Old Greg
29th June 2016, 16:10
Yes it's only 17.05% down on the week in USD terms.

OwlHoot
29th June 2016, 16:36
Closed on 16,000, up 500 points in a day, a day where the government and opposition are looking like they couldn't organise a nun shoot in a nunnery. Linky (http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/Index/MCX?countrycode=UK)

What were all the Remainers going on about again? Something about UK blah blah Doom and Gloom blah blah Should have Remained etc.

Can't be arsed digging up some EU/German charts but they're basically all flat lining. :rolleyes:

Didn't someone on another thread here earlier today claim the FTSE 250 doesn't prove a thing Brexit-wise and it's the FTSE 100 one has to look at?

Well, OK, let's look at the FTSE 100:

2016-06-29 FTSE 100 closes above pre-Brexit level (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133)

:laugh

Flashman
29th June 2016, 16:43
FTSE 100 closes above pre-Brexit level - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133)

Wow. To be honest I did expect some negative impact from Brexit at least in the short term. Given the scaremongering I think we all did.

But this ....:hug:


"It is safe to say that, of all the post Brexit outcomes discussed across the City over the past few months, 'buying frenzy' was not one that was viewed as very likely," said Chris Beauchamp, senior market analyst at spread betting firm IG.

BBC continues to report through gritted teeth. :laugh

AtW
29th June 2016, 16:59
FTSE 100 closes above pre-Brexit level - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133)

Wow. To be honest I did expect some negative impact from Brexit at least in the short term. Given the scaremongering I think we all did.

Where is Brexit? It's only Brexit when Article 50 is triggered, right now the markets are hoping that such things won't happen.

SueEllen
29th June 2016, 17:05
Where is Brexit? It's only Brexit when Article 50 is triggered, right now the markets are hoping that such things won't happen.

If Johnson wins there won't be a Brexit.

If anyone else wins who knows....

SantaClaus
29th June 2016, 19:19
Where is Brexit? It's only Brexit when Article 50 is triggered, right now the markets are hoping that such things won't happen.

Exactly.

Also ...

- Article 50 can only be triggered by a vote in Parliament.
- 75% of MPs don't want a Brexit.
- The rules change in April 2017 - 14 EU member states will have to give permission for the UK to go.

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/06/29/fact-if-the-uk-doesnt-have-a-signed-deal-by-april-2017-brexit-is-in-grave-danger/

The markets realise this, hence the rally.

AtW
29th June 2016, 19:28
Exactly.

Also ...

- Article 50 can only be triggered by a vote in Parliament.
- 75% of MPs don't want a Brexit.
- The rules change in April 2017 - 14 EU member states will have to give permission for the UK to go.

The markets realise this, hence the rally.

So, if Article 50 is never triggered then UK may never be able to leave? I guess that's when Boris will blame the EU :laugh

I am pretty sure Cons can whip up majority to get vote for exit, some Labour would join in.

SueEllen
29th June 2016, 19:34
There's no going back now, we're on the naughty step of Europe Germany and France, to let us back in would send a clear message to any other nations thinking of leaving that the The E.U. Germany and France, are weak and that they have to reform to better consider the needs of it's members diverse spectrum of people.

Which they aren't and won't. Obviously. :grin

I was joking before the referendum that we may have two bites at it.

The clever PM who does the next one will ensure that all the UK regions want to leave before it's done, and obviously the question will be different so it's a "different" referendum.

SantaClaus
29th June 2016, 19:40
So, if Article 50 is never triggered then UK may never be able to leave? I guess that's when Boris will blame the EU :laugh

I am pretty sure Cons can whip up majority to get vote for exit, some Labour would join in.

Neither Conservative nor Labour MPs could organise a piss up in a brewery at present.

Boris knows he is holding a poison chalice - you just had to see the expression on his face the day after the referendum. He looked like somebody had played an awful Etonian trick on him :laugh

NotAllThere
30th June 2016, 04:50
Jun 23. Jun 24. Jun 29.
SMI(CHF) 8023 7639 7978
DAX(€) 10247 9416 9612
EURONEXT 100(€) 878 801 835
FTSE100(£) 6334 5926 6336
FTSE250(£) 17294 16002 15982

SMI(CHF) -4.79% -0.56%
DAX(€) -8.11% -6.20%
EURONEXT 100(€) -8.77% -4.90%
FTSE100(£) -6.44% 0.03%
FTSE250(£) -7.47% -7.59%

SMI($) 8385 7874 8138
DAX($) 11650 10474 10685
EURONEXT 100($) 998 891 928
FTSE100($) 9373 8084 8440
FTSE250($) 25592 21830 21289

SMI($) -6.10% -2.95%
DAX($) -10.09% -8.29%
EURONEXT 100($) -10.74% -7.02%
FTSE100($) -13.75% -9.96%
FTSE250($) -14.70% -16.81%
The percentage values are measured against the 23rd June.

In their own currencies, it looks like the FTSE hasn't done brilliantly, but it's not too bad. However, taking into account forex before making the comparison (converting values to $, assuming the US markets were not too affected by Brexit), you can see that the UK is really not doing well on the international level. Day exchange rates taken from xe.com

If you cast into Japanese Yen, Europe isn't doing well, but the UK is doing worst.


Jun 24. Jun 29.
SMI -10.50% -8.35%
DAX -14.99% -13.63%
EURONEXT 100 -15.60% -12.43%
FTSE100 -23.16% -20.31%
FTSE250 -24.01% -26.38%

If you think everything is fine because the FTSE is slightly up, then I suspect you are cherry-picking your data.

mudskipper
30th June 2016, 05:52
I read this article with interest from a Brexiter.

Brexit won't happen in the end – here's why | Voices | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wont-really-happen-second-referendum-markets-value-housing-pound-a7106996.html)

DISCUSS.

"This, on top of what David Cameron managed to secure...."

What Cameron managed to secure is no longer secured.

"13. We note in this context that the Conclusions of the 18–19 February 2016 European Council, at which the terms of the ‘New Settlement for the United Kingdom within the European Union’ were agreed, stated that “should the result of the referendum in the United Kingdom be for it to leave the European Union, the set of arrangements referred to [regarding the ‘New Settlement’] will cease to exist”. In other words, the outcome of the recent renegotiation of the UK’s membership terms will, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, fall the moment the result of the referendum is known"

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldselect/ldeucom/138/138.pdf

MyUserName
30th June 2016, 07:53
- Article 50 can only be triggered by a vote in Parliament.
- 75% of MPs don't want a Brexit.
- The rules change in April 2017 - 14 EU member states will have to give permission for the UK to go.

Got a source for that?

MarillionFan
30th June 2016, 07:55
Got a source for that?

Www.madeupstatsandquotes.com

NotAllThere
30th June 2016, 08:09
Got a source for that?EU vote: Where the cabinet and other MPs stand - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946)

Count of MPs declared positions as of 22nd June. Of those that declared their position (637 out of 650), 75% were in favour of remain.

MyUserName
30th June 2016, 08:17
EU vote: Where the cabinet and other MPs stand - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946)

Count of MPs declared positions as of 22nd June. Of those that declared their position (637 out of 650), 75% were in favour of remain.

Awesome! Thanks

CretinWatcher
30th June 2016, 08:20
"This, on top of what David Cameron managed to secure...."

What Cameron managed to secure is no longer secured.

"13. We note in this context that the Conclusions of the 18–19 February 2016 European Council, at which the terms of the ‘New Settlement for the United Kingdom within the European Union’ were agreed, stated that “should the result of the referendum in the United Kingdom be for it to leave the European Union, the set of arrangements referred to [regarding the ‘New Settlement’] will cease to exist”. In other words, the outcome of the recent renegotiation of the UK’s membership terms will, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, fall the moment the result of the referendum is known"

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldselect/ldeucom/138/138.pdf

Well that's a shame.
It got drowned out in all the noise but one thing he managed to secure was that Britain would never be part of the political union, and I quote, "in perpetuity". This would be written into the treaty.
Thus removing one huge concern that many (including me) had.
Shame that no one knew about it as they were too busy being shouty, :eyes

SueEllen
30th June 2016, 08:41
Well that's a shame.
It got drowned out in all the noise but one thing he managed to secure was that Britain would never be part of the political union, and I quote, "in perpetuity". This would be written into the treaty.
Thus removing one huge concern that many (including me) had.
Shame that no one knew about it as they were too busy being shouty, :eyes

Some of us Remainers did....

Anyway least I'm not Welsh, Cornish,...

NigelJK
30th June 2016, 10:16
Exactly.

Also ...

- Article 50 can only be triggered by a vote in Parliament.
- 75% of MPs don't want a Brexit.
- The rules change in April 2017 - 14 EU member states will have to give permission for the UK to go.


You can regurgitate the Bremoaners diahorhia as much as you like, how ever that does not make it fact.

A50 can ONLY be triggered by a PM asking the FO to tell the EU that we want to invoke it. No vote necessary. WHEN we do the EU has no choice uner their own rules to renegotiate for their remaining members, else it's WTO rules.

BTW when this happens what are all of you losers, clinging to the wreckage of your socialist super state, going to do?

Jog On
30th June 2016, 10:36
Is there an option that 'Bractually Not' will drag out until everone's forgotten about it?

Seems the focus is on getting rid of Corbyn in time for the Chilcott report due out next week and installing "New Labour 2.0".

We seem to be doing a good job of ignoring the orders being barked at us from Brussels (Germany) to get it done immediately which is a good start...

You vill invoke ze article NOW!!

[dad's army theme]...

And back on topic - seems like the big crash is not ready to happen yet and when it does it won't be because of Brexit but people will blame it on Brexit (and Trump if he gets in). Summer whipsaw season is almost upon us...

CretinWatcher
30th June 2016, 10:39
BTW when this happens what are all of you losers, clinging to the wreckage of your socialist super state, going to do?

Fook off out of the country and leave you to the wreckage of your right-wing jobless shit-hole?:laugh

NotAllThere
30th June 2016, 10:41
...
BTW when this happens what are all of you losers... going to do?When this does happen, we'll all be losers - brexiters and bremainers alike.

You won the vote, that is all. Whether that was a good choice remains to be seen. Some Brexiters seem to be unable to grasp that simply winning a vote doesn't mean that you were right to vote that way. Plenty of people voted Labour in 1997... yay for Blair!

rl4engc
30th June 2016, 11:29
Fook off out of the country and leave you to the wreckage of your right-wing jobless tulip-hole?:laugh

Spoken like a true patriot there, what a :cretin: Typical Remainer. :yay:

The door's over there (points roughly in the direction of all international airports and ports, and St. Pancras Intl.)

rl4engc
30th June 2016, 11:34
The rules change in April 2017 - 14 EU member states will have to give permission for the UK to go.

Is that true? :grey Did we the U.K. not get a veto on that decision? What you're saying there is that:

"..If an Artikle Funfzig ist not submitted by next April, zen ze U.K. kann never ever leave ze E.U! Und vill forever be joined to ze new Motherland!"

I really can't see that, that's the thing that would start wars, the E.U. is all about peace and friendship isn't it?

WTFH
30th June 2016, 11:38
Can I join in?


Your momma's so fat her ass is in two different time zones.


rl4, English is the preferred language on here, unless you are Bee, in which case, who knows.

original PM
30th June 2016, 11:38
Is that true? :grey Did we the U.K. not get a veto on that decision? What you're saying there is that:

"..If an Artikle Funfzig ist not submitted by next April, zen ze U.K. kann never ever leave ze E.U! Und vill forever be joined to ze new Motherland!"

I really can't see that, that's the thing that would start wars, the E.U. is all about peace and friendship isn't it?

Yes of course - which is why they are planning to 'punish' us by acting like little spoilt children who could not get their own way and are going tot are their football home.

WTFH
30th June 2016, 11:42
17,333 (23/06) compared to 16,040 (30/06)


Yup, the FTSE 250 is soaring away. 1000 points up on Monday, but still not even half way back to where it was.


I think some of you need to ask your accountants to explain gains and losses.

rl4engc
30th June 2016, 11:50
Yup, the FTSE 250 is soaring away. 1000 points up on Monday, but still not even half way back to where it was.

I think you'll find the sort of gains you're seeing since it hit support are what smart investers can make a lot of money on.

The idiots (ruled by Fear) sell sell sell as soon as it looks like a Brexit. The smart money moves in when they see support, and get on the escalator. :rolleyes:

rl4engc
30th June 2016, 12:13
Yes of course - which is why they are planning to 'punish' us by acting like little spoilt children who could not get their own way and are going tot are their football home.

And people still want to be part of this "club"? What's wrong with them? Seriously?!

You can just imagine all this tulipe played out in any Primary School. Time for a story:

Three "Cool Kids" (Bigger and richer than the rest, two are bullies, one is normal) are surrounded by their 'gang' in one part of the playground. The Cool Kids supply the Poorer Kids with sweets, toys and a 'badge of honour' in return for their loyalty. One of the Cool Kids decides they don't like being in this gang after all, they can do better with the other kids in the wider playground. Immediately the two 'bully' Cool Kids round on the 'normal' Cool Kid, saying "If you leave the gang, we'll never talk to you again, we won't buy any of your sweets and toys, nor can you sell your sweets and toys to us.." The Poorer Kids also shout abuse at the 'normal' Cool Kid, as they're scared of the two 'bully' Cool Kids if they show any kind of support. Worryingly, the Poor Kids then all grab the 'normal' Cool Kid by the arm and say, "You're never going to leave this gang. You're part of the EUSSR now, and will be in perpetuity, since there's no democratic way of removing our leaders, nor for you to leave our gang. If you want to leave, you'll have to fight us all to do so, since we will never agree for you to leave.."

Is that the future we want as a nation? :suicide: :suicide: :suicide:

NotAllThere
30th June 2016, 12:37
17,333 (23/06) compared to 16,040 (30/06)
A 7.5% drop

However, we live in a global economy, so you need to also consider how we've fared in other countries' currency. E.g.
In $, 25650 compared to 21550, a 15% drop.
In Yen, 2.715M, compared to 2.217M, an 18% drop.
In €, 22560 compared to 19450 a 13% drop.

Doing great!

(And yes, I am buying UK shares now. Since my home country's currency is CHF, your shares are so cheap!).

WTFH
30th June 2016, 13:14
The idiots (ruled by Fear)


two 'bully' Cool Kids


EUSSR


Is your argument so weak that you are incapable of making it without resorting to childish name-calling?

NigelJK
30th June 2016, 13:16
When this does happen, we'll all be losers - brexiters and bremainers alike.

So when it happens you're gonna keep losing?

rl4engc
30th June 2016, 14:54
Is your argument so weak that you are incapable of making it without resorting to childish name-calling?

Put forward your argument then.

Explain to us all, why the U.K. is better off in the E.U., paying attention to just these points:

1) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to control it's own laws.
2) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to remove it's own leaders democratically.
3) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to decide to remove itself from the E.U., instead being forced to be a member until the majority of other members decide it's allowed to leave.

Can't answer any of them? Nope, thought not. Anyone else? :grin

AtW
30th June 2016, 14:59
I think you'll find the sort of gains you're seeing since it hit support are what smart investers can make a lot of money on.

The idiots (ruled by Fear) sell sell sell as soon as it looks like a Brexit. The smart money moves in when they see support, and get on the escalator. :rolleyes:

It's a bit like this - pros sell to create market drop, mugs follow out of fear plus HFT - they pros buy cheap shares that they borrowed from pension funds, pocket big profit

WTFH
30th June 2016, 15:06
Put forward your argument then.

Explain to us all, why the U.K. is better off in the E.U., paying attention to just these points:

1) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to control it's own laws.
2) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to remove it's own leaders democratically.
3) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to decide to remove itself from the E.U., instead being forced to be a member until the majority of other members decide it's allowed to leave.

Can't answer any of them? Nope, thought not. Anyone else? :grin



I'm not questioning having an argument, I'm questioning your arguing consisting of childish name-calling.


But since you made one post of questions and in the same post said that I could not answer your questions shows again how childish your arguing is.

chopper
30th June 2016, 15:07
Explain to us all, why the U.K. is better off in the E.U., paying attention to just these points:

1) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to control it's own laws.
2) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to remove it's own leaders democratically.
3) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to decide to remove itself from the E.U., instead being forced to be a member until the majority of other members decide it's allowed to leave.

This is what my Leave vote was all about.

I am absolutely happy with an EEA (or better?) deal with full access to the single market and freedom of movement of Goods, Services, Capital and Workers.

Without the freedom of movement of workers, there are plenty of shit jobs that British layabouts ("I'm not working class... I don't work") refuse to do but which all appear to be the holy grail for our Eastern European cousins - lettuce picking, bog cleaning, car washing, taxi driving, newspaper selling... as well as the better stuff like manning our IT helpdesks, being nurses and doctors and all that stuff. If the Poland/Romania/Lithuania/Turkey/Albania/whoever are happy to accept the talent drain away from their markets and take up the slack over here, then fine. Said migrants really don't have to be EU migrants.

My main beef is benefits. If they can come here and be self sufficient and contribute into our system then fine, but its a bit thin if one chap comes over here, takes a cruddy job in a car wash earning less than the personal allowance, brings his family, gets housing benefits and child benefits and all that stuff. So by all means, come over. But there needs to be a decent amount of time before said migrants get benefits.

It is bad enough we're paying benefits to our own workshy freeloaders, e.g. the non-working class mentioned above.

A single market doesn't need a government, two parliament buildings, a supreme court, a flag and a national anthem. And its a bit shit that Europe would expect us to pay them a subscription fee to allow them to sell their stuff to us. There's a trade defecit, they sell a lot more to us than we sell to them.

NotAllThere
30th June 2016, 15:10
So when it happens you're gonna keep losing?Everyone living in the UK will lose. You will lose. I won't lose. I don't live in the UK. Is that clear enough for you, loser?



1) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to control it's own laws. The UK has always had the ability to control its own laws. It even used to have say in the laws agreed with the other EU countries, which it the incorporated into its own laws.

2) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to remove it's own leaders democratically.The UK has never been able to remove it's own leaders democratically. It has always been able to remove the government democratically, every 5 years or so (now fixed). The representatives of our country (democratically chosen), democratically chose the leaders of the European Commission.

3) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to decide to remove itself from the E.U., instead being forced to be a member until the majority of other members decide it's allowed to leave.:confused:


Can't answer any of them? Nope, thought not. Anyone else? :grinTwo were strawmen , one just doesn't make any sense.

But before we proceed, answer this question. Have you stopped beating your wife?

WTFH
30th June 2016, 15:11
1) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to control it's own laws.
It already could and did.



2) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to remove it's own leaders democratically.
It already could and did. But it could not (and still cannot) remove the undemocratic Civil Service and Special Advisers.



3) Why the U.K. is better off by not having the ability to decide to remove itself from the E.U., instead being forced to be a member until the majority of other members decide it's allowed to leave.
Because the UK signed up to a group and the requirements to leave were clearly stated and agreed by the democratically elected UK parliamentarians. That's why.

CretinWatcher
30th June 2016, 15:15
There's a trade defecit, they sell a lot more to us than we sell to them.

This is one of those myths that keeps getting repeated and its annoying.

There a trade deficit in goods, but for us there's a trade surplus in services.

If we lose access to the single market, German manufacturers will lose some business with us but we'll lose a hell of a lot of business in financial services.
The German economy has a massive trade surplus*, we have massive twin deficits (trade and fiscal).

In a trade war we'd go bust well before them, because the foreigners who fund our deficits would take fright as they grew. Bit like what happened to Greece.

HTH, BIKIW.

* Just checked and it has fiscal surplus as well.

Money talks, BS walks. If we wanted to play hardball with Germany perhaps we should have lived within our means.

SantaClaus
30th June 2016, 18:59
Is that true? :grey Did we the U.K. not get a veto on that decision? What you're saying there is that:

"..If an Artikle Funfzig ist not submitted by next April, zen ze U.K. kann never ever leave ze E.U! Und vill forever be joined to ze new Motherland!"

I really can't see that, that's the thing that would start wars, the E.U. is all about peace and friendship isn't it?

See this article here:

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/06/29/fact-if-the-uk-doesnt-have-a-signed-deal-by-april-2017-brexit-is-in-grave-danger/

mudskipper
30th June 2016, 20:00
See this article here:

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/06/29/fact-if-the-uk-doesnt-have-a-signed-deal-by-april-2017-brexit-is-in-grave-danger/

Would be helpful if the author referenced his sources. :rolleyes:

I've found the following:

The mechanics of leaving the EU - explaining Article 50 (http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/)

Which suggests that the withdrawal is up to the member state's constitutional requirements, and the arrangements for the withdrawal are subject to a qualified majority.

Then there's this

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/genaff/144960.pdf

which describes the changes to the QM vote - we're currently in a transitional phase until April 2017.


So no-one can prevent us leaving, but the leaving negotiations (the 'deal') will be subject to the changed QM rules as they will almost certainly extend after April 2017.

IANAL, but can't find any source documents suggesting that rules changing in April '17 will prevent us leaving if Article 50 is not triggered by then. DYOR.

NigelJK
1st July 2016, 07:03
Everyone living in the UK will lose. You will lose. I won't lose. I don't live in the UK. Is that clear enough for you, loser?

OK for the hard of thinking. You still have not answered the question, what are you going to do when we exit?

Think that says it all really don't you?


Is that clear enough for you, loser?
I'm guessing that's aimed at me. I voted out, so I'm the winner here.

BTW I've voted at every opportunity to vote in the last 30+ years and only once before last week has the outcome been what I voted for. I had to put up with that twunt Blair for 12 years, and never once did I moan about the outcome.

Care to give us your reasons for berating us?

WTFH
1st July 2016, 07:20
Have I blocked rl4, or is he unable to respond politely to my comments. He gave me zero seconds, I've given him 16 hours.

WTFH
1st July 2016, 07:25
IANAL, but can't find any source documents suggesting that rules changing in April '17 will prevent us leaving if Article 50 is not triggered by then. DYOR.


And if Article 50 is not triggered by the UK government, then we're not going anywhere. So, the big question from some should not be "how can be blame the EU for everything?" But "why will our right wing government refuse to invoke article 50 immediately?"
It's not the EU's fault. It's not Corbyn's fault (Although he is a socialist so is personally responsible for everything wrong with the world), it's not Farage's fault (since he is unelected in the UK).

I'm surprised the people who were so vocal on Brexit are picking on others rather than dealing with the issue that their wishes are being ignored by the elected UK parliament.

Shame.

CretinWatcher
1st July 2016, 07:35
Care to give us your reasons for berating us?

Well, some of us think economic chaos and the break up of the Uk aren't good ideas.

NotAllThere
1st July 2016, 07:47
You still have not answered the question, what are you going to do when we exit?Stay in Switzerland, occasionally visit the UK to benefit from cheap shopping and pity the poor people who thought they'd benefit from a Brexit.

Like this chap.

I voted out, so I'm the winner here.


Care to give us your reasons for berating us?*sigh*. Ok, I'll try again. You won the vote. I didn't vote for Brexit because I thought it would be bad for Britain. You winning the vote doesn't change that opinion. I said a win for Brexit would be disastrous for the UK. If in five years time you're living in a happy, prosperous country, I'll be glad to admit you'd be right. I'd even be really happy to be wrong. But all the indications are (so far) I'm not wrong. It's gonna be a mess for a long time and the UK will come out of it all the poorer.

You won the vote. Not the argument. The reasons why a Brexit is bad have not disappeared miraculously as a result of the referendum.

Since I think you (and other Brexiters) don't understand this fairly basic logic, I can only conclude you're all a bit thick. Hence the berating.

Do you understand now? (I wonder if you can get the distinction between "understand" and "agree")

NigelJK
1st July 2016, 08:01
You won the vote. Phew, glad we got that straight.


Well, some of us think economic chaos and the break up of the Uk aren't good ideas.


If in five years time

But all the indications are (so far)


Do you understand now? (I wonder if you can get the distinction between "understand" and "agree")

I get it. Your crystal ball, which incidentally failed miserably to predict the outcome, now fails to predict what might happen in your preconceived view of a Britain free EU?

CretinWatcher
1st July 2016, 08:16
I get it. Your crystal ball, which incidentally failed miserably to predict the outcome, now fails to predict what might happen in your preconceived view of a Britain free EU?

My crystal ball said it was too close to call and so I moved a largish 6 figure sum , profit from a BTL, out of sterling.
If I change that sum back to sterling I'm up quite a nice sum - enough to buy a large luxury car, say.

My "crystal ball" or rather, my analysis skills, are now telling me that with the uncertainty about access to the single market, lack of passporting rights for the City, the weak industrial base and the large twin deficits of the UK, that a recession is inevitable
The only issue is how severe it will be.

NotAllThere
1st July 2016, 09:15
...
I get it. Your crystal ball, which incidentally failed miserably to predict the outcome, now fails to predict what might happen in your preconceived view of a Britain free EU?I think I understand your thought processes (not easy, as they're grounded in idiocy and illogic). You think since I voted for Bremain, that means I thought Bremain would win. Since Bremain didn't win, I'm wrong about everything.

According to your "reasoning", if you'd lost the referendum, you would have instantly agreed that staying in Europe was a great idea after all. :freaky:

You really are not very bright. Are you related to Purple Gorilla perchance?

NigelJK
1st July 2016, 10:22
think I understand your thought processes (not easy, as they're grounded in idiocy and illogic). You think since I voted for Bremain, that means I thought Bremain would win. Since Bremain didn't win, I'm wrong about everything.

According to your "reasoning", if you'd lost the referendum, you would have instantly agreed that staying in Europe was a great idea after all.

You really are not very bright. Are you related to Purple Gorilla perchance?
Nobody asked you what my thought processes were. I just pointed out your actions.

You seem to be saying that, despite the fact that you don't actually live in the UK, you seem to think the repeating the project fear ad infinitem it's predictions will come true instantly.

Well, so far you've managed to get everything else in this conversation 'wrong' (i.e. you are the loser despite claiming I was).

When I voted it was for an outcome, not an 'idea'. If Bremain had won I'd have had to start acting accordingly, just as I am now for the exit. I didn't take it personally any other time I voted either, I just had a strategy for coping based on my own analysis.

The reason I don't look bright to you is that you are too far from the source.

CretinWatcher
1st July 2016, 10:39
You seem to be saying that, despite the fact that you don't actually live in the UK, you seem to think the repeating the project fear ad infinitem it's predictions will come true instantly.



What does his living in the UK have to do with anything?
Economic data are available in real time around the world.
And perhaps you can point out where he said "it's predictions will come true instantly".
Although it's not quite clear what the "it's" refers to in this case :rolleyes:

CretinWatcher
1st July 2016, 10:40
The reason I don't look bright to you is that you are too far from the source.

No the reason you don't look bright to anyone with a brain is that you're thick as mince :laugh

NotAllThere
1st July 2016, 10:50
tl;dr - drooling, dribbling, drivelKeep telling yourself that. I'm sure it will all be wonderful.

BlasterBates
1st July 2016, 10:54
...and as the Brexiters fiddle, the pound touches new lows against the Euro, which is itself a weak currency..

EURGBP=X: Summary for EUR/GBP- Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=EURGBP=X)

George Soros Warns Brexit Has Unleashed Financial Markets Crisis - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-30/soros-says-brexit-has-unleashed-a-financial-markets-crisis)

As the IMF said the consequences are between bad and very bad.

Old Greg
6th July 2016, 10:37
Didn't someone on another thread here earlier today claim the FTSE 250 doesn't prove a thing Brexit-wise and it's the FTSE 100 one has to look at?

Well, OK, let's look at the FTSE 100:

2016-06-29 FTSE 100 closes above pre-Brexit level (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133)

:laugh

The Pro-Brexit Telegraph suggests otherwise:

Why we should be looking at the FTSE 250 and not the FTSE 100 to gauge the impact of Brexit (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/27/why-we-should-be-looking-at-the-ftse-250-and-not-the-ftse-100-to/)


Credit Suisse recently calculated that the constituents of the FTSE 100 collectively make around three-quarters of their money beyond these shores.

Those revenues are earned in foreign currencies, which must be converted back into sterling for reporting purposes; the weaker the pound, the bigger the relative boost those companies get from those foreign earnings. And sterling has got an awful lot weaker in the last couple of days. This effect has put the brakes on the FTSE 100’s recent slide.

Furthermore, many of the constituents of the UK’s blue riband index are miners. They dig stuff up in Africa, price it in dollars and sell it in China. That’s a bit of an over-simplification but you get my point: Brexit is very unlikely to directly affect them.

In fact, if the stuff they are digging up is gold, Brexit is actually a positive – investors have been desperately stockpiling the safe haven asset, and the shares of companies who produce it, since Friday morning. Randgold Resources and Fresnillo, both gold miners, have led the FTSE 100 in the past two days, up 26pc and 22pc respectively, and, together with other natural resources stocks, have helped cushion the index. This is not an indication that all is rosy for UK plc.


A much better gauge of fears about the UK economy is the FTSE 250, which includes smaller and more domestic-focused companies. It fell 7pc yesterday. This was after it tumbled 7.2pc on Friday, its worst one-day drop since 1987. In total it has now dropped 13.6pc since the Brexit vote. There is no firm definition of what constitutes a stock market crash, but a double-digit dip in two days is getting awfully close.

Banks, house builders and travel stocks have borne the brunt of the pain because they are the most sensitive to the UK economy. Shawbrook, Aldermore, Onesavings Bank and Virgin Money have all lost between 40pc and 50pc of their value. Shares in RBS have fallen around 40pc since the referendum vote and Taylor Wimpey, the UK’s biggest house builder, is off nearly 40pc. Foxtons and easyJet have been the first companies to issue profit warnings in the wake of Brexit.

BlasterBates
6th July 2016, 10:55
Miners and Oil companies that are heavily weighted in the FTSE aren't really British companies, most of them have their assets else where and are completely unaffected by Brexit. These companies are pushing up the FTSE 100. Domestic British companies have been hammered. It looks dire, but it'll take a few months for it to filter through.