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scooterscot
13th September 2016, 07:42
The article says much about helping the poorest with opportunities, a focus on the less well off and one sentence about tax havens. The UK is a tax haven!!

Little wonder Corbyn is so opposed by the political establishment.



UK one of the most unequal countries, says Oxfam

The gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots" must be addressed, Oxfam says

The richest 1% of the UK population owns more than 20 times the wealth of the poorest fifth, according to Oxfam.

That made Britain one of the most unequal countries in the developed world and contributed to the vote for Brexit, the charity said.

Its analysis found that about 634,000 Britons were worth 20 times as much as the poorest 13 million people.

Oxfam has urged Prime Minister Theresa May to help close the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots".

The charity's report analysed data from Credit Suisse and found that the richest 10% of the UK population own over half of the country's total wealth, with the top 1% owning nearly a quarter (23%). The poorest 20% share just 0.8% of the UK's wealth between them.

The report said many people in the UK felt locked out of politics and economic opportunity.

"Whatever your views on Brexit, the referendum brought divisions within our country to a head, with many people expressing distrust and disconnection with political processes and voting for change in the hope that it would improve their economic position," Oxfam said.

Theresa MayPA
Theresa May has pledged to reform corporate culture
The charity welcomed Mrs May's recognition of the need to reform corporate culture and proposed a series of measures for the government to adopt.

They include:

delivering on the Prime Minister's pledge to give workers more representation on companies' boards
Giving firms incentives to improve workers' skills and encouraging benefit claimants to undergo training and education
Adopt pay ratios of 20:1 so that the best-paid person at a company can earn no more than 20 times the salary of the lowest-paid worker
tackling corporate tax avoidance and ending UK-linked tax havens.
Rachael Orr, head of Oxfam's UK Programme, said: "Inequality is a massive barrier to tackling poverty and has created an economy that clearly isn't working for everyone. While executive pay soars, one in five people live below the poverty line and struggle to pay their bills and put food on the table."

Ending unscrupulous practices must be a central element of the government's plans to reform the economy, she said.

"That means closing wage gaps, incentivising investment in companies' staff and making sure they pay their fair share of taxes," Ms Orr said.

A Downing Street spokesperson said the government had made changes such as bringing in the National Living Wage and reforming the welfare system, but admitted that more needed to be done to help both the poorest in the UK as well as families struggling to make ends meet.

Source: UK one of the most unequal countries, says Oxfam - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37341095)

The Only Way Is Keynsham
13th September 2016, 07:59
Yes, and this gap has been getting wider for decades - including the 13 years when Labour was in power.

The more immigrants there are, the lower the wages get driven down and all the more cash in the fat cats' pockets.

scooterscot
13th September 2016, 08:09
Blaming immigrants is so easy. They're ill equipped to defend themselves.

We might consider during those 13 years of Labour that BHS owner Phillip Green was already masterminding how to extract a pension fund for his own gain. I don't think the recently redundant would blame immigrants.

darmstadt
13th September 2016, 08:12
Yes, and this gap has been getting wider for decades - including the 13 years when Labour was in power.

The more immigrants there are, the lower the wages get driven down and all the more cash in the fat cats' pockets.

But only as far as minimum wage and a number of Brexit politicians want to remove that once it has all finished. Sadly the only people who would actually work for that are the migrants and even then they seem to be the majority who'll also work for minimum wage. It's not really the migrants fault but also the companies who won't pay a decent living wage, offer that and people will go to work, possibly...

original PM
13th September 2016, 08:18
given that Trump or Clinton are going to press the button we may as well enjoy the last few months of life amicably!

NotAllThere
13th September 2016, 08:27
Yes, and this gap has been getting wider for decades - including the 13 years when Labour was in power.

The more immigrants there are, the lower the wages get driven down and all the more cash in the fat cats' pockets.That's very funny, considering that distracting the population with immigration is a tried and tested way for politicians to gain popularity and hide the real issues.

The Only Way Is Keynsham
13th September 2016, 08:36
That's very funny, considering that distracting the population with immigration is a tried and tested way for politicians to gain popularity and hide the real issues.

Well, yes. Up to a point that is true.

Talking tough on immigration wins votes while they do nothing about it.

I know so many tradesmen; brickies, sparkles etc who have had their rates badly undercut. Particularly those working on building sites. And they feel let down. Who can blame them?

sasguru
13th September 2016, 08:39
Yes, and this gap has been getting wider for decades - including the 13 years when Labour was in power.

The more immigrants there are, the lower the wages get driven down and all the more cash in the fat cats' pockets.

Hi there Scroat face.
Perhaps if there were no imagrunts you could of been a dokta.

scooterscot
13th September 2016, 08:40
But only as far as minimum wage and a number of Brexit politicians want to remove that once it has all finished. Sadly the only people who would actually work for that are the migrants and even then they seem to be the majority who'll also work for minimum wage. It's not really the migrants fault but also the companies who won't pay a decent living wage, offer that and people will go to work, possibly...

Indeed. A little off topic but sort of related to the school thread of recent..

Gymnasium schools require two years of marking/observation by the junior school teachers to get in, not verbal reasoning tests. Kids attend school at a later age, far better for their early development to be with a parent up until 5, not dumped at minders or pre school, so parents can get back on the treadmill. In Germany they have:

Free university,
Free national travel for students,
Excellent technical colleges,
As much respect given to those who enter trades,
Apprenticeships that pay €10 an hour, not less than £3,
Workfare that's paid employment,
Non judgmental welfare system,
Excellent social housing,
Rent protection and security of tenure for tenants,
Little in the way of zero hours, minimum hours style employment..

They're miles ahead of us. We're an embarrassment in comparison.



And they've got a million+ migrants!!! - WHAT's OUR EXCUSE?!!

The Only Way Is Keynsham
13th September 2016, 08:44
Indeed. A little off topic but sort of related to the school thread of recent..

Gymnasium schools require two years of marking/observation by the junior school teachers to get in, not verbal reasoning tests. Kids attend school at a later age, far better for their early development to be with a parent up until 5, not dumped at minders or pre school, so parents can get back on the treadmill. In Germany they have:

Free university,
Free national travel for students,
Excellent technical colleges,
As much respect given to those who enter trades,
Apprenticeships that pay €10 an hour, not less than £3,
Workfare that's paid employment,
Non judgmental welfare system,
Excellent social housing,
Rent protection and security of tenure for tenants,
Little in the way of zero hours, minimum hours style employment..

They're miles ahead of us. We're an embarrassment in comparison.



And they've got a million+ migrants!!! - WHAT's OUR EXCUSE?!!

And the German public are really happy about that, aren't they?!

Didn't Merkel get a drubbing in some election the other day?

Maybe it's all Daily Mail smoke and mirrors:eyes

BrilloPad
13th September 2016, 08:50
Inequality is increasing. Which is why the UK voted for Brexit. However, Brexit will probably make it worse.

The only way of cutting back on inequality is a depression....

BrilloPad
13th September 2016, 08:51
Hi there Scroat face.
Perhaps if there were no imagrunts you could of been a dokta.

If there were no immigrants you would still have been a cretin.

HTH BISDI

stek
13th September 2016, 10:02
Indeed. A little off topic but sort of related to the school thread of recent..

Gymnasium schools require two years of marking/observation by the junior school teachers to get in, not verbal reasoning tests. Kids attend school at a later age, far better for their early development to be with a parent up until 5, not dumped at minders or pre school, so parents can get back on the treadmill. In Germany they have:

Free university,
Free national travel for students,
Excellent technical colleges,
As much respect given to those who enter trades,
Apprenticeships that pay €10 an hour, not less than £3,
Workfare that's paid employment,
Non judgmental welfare system,
Excellent social housing,
Rent protection and security of tenure for tenants,
Little in the way of zero hours, minimum hours style employment..

They're miles ahead of us. We're an embarrassment in comparison.



And they've got a million+ migrants!!! - WHAT's OUR EXCUSE?!!

Here in Denmark university students are paid to go to uni...

NotAllThere
13th September 2016, 10:05
Indeed. A little off topic but sort of related to the school thread of recent..

Gymnasium schools require two years of marking/observation by the junior school teachers to get in, not verbal reasoning tests. Kids attend school at a later age, far better for their early development to be with a parent up until 5, not dumped at minders or pre school, so parents can get back on the treadmill. In Germany they have:

Free university,
Free national travel for students,
Excellent technical colleges,
As much respect given to those who enter trades,
Apprenticeships that pay €10 an hour, not less than £3,
Workfare that's paid employment,
Non judgmental welfare system,
Excellent social housing,
Rent protection and security of tenure for tenants,
Little in the way of zero hours, minimum hours style employment..

They're miles ahead of us. We're an embarrassment in comparison.



And they've got a million+ migrants!!! - WHAT's OUR EXCUSE?!!


And the German public are really happy about that, aren't they?!

Didn't Merkel get a drubbing in some election the other day?

Maybe it's all Daily Mail smoke and mirrors:eyesOK, let's try Switzerland.

Gymnasium schools require consistently high grades at secondary level (~16 years old). Kids attend school at a later age, far better for their early development to be with a parent up until 5, not dumped at minders or pre school, so parents can get back on the treadmill. In Switzerland they have:

Low university fees (~£1000 a year, with help available for those on low income and those needing to live away from home)
Cheap national travel for students,
Excellent technical colleges,
As much respect given to those who enter trades,
Apprenticeship is considered to be continuation of education, pays ~800 a month.
Unemployment benefit that's 80% of your previous salary (up to ~£100K), after that social that you have to pay back when you get a job.
Non judgmental welfare system,
Excellent social housing - at community level. The community is obliged to clothe, feed and house people on social, with some subsidy for smaller communities.
Rent protection and security of tenure for tenants,
Little in the way of zero hours, minimum hours style employment..

They're miles ahead of us. We're an embarrassment in comparison.



And they've got a 25% of the population as migrants and take in proportionally more refugees and asylum seekers than their fair share if all European countries shared the burden!!! - WHAT's OUR EXCUSE?!!

The_Equalizer
13th September 2016, 10:20
Perhaps posters to this thread can first 'fess up as to whether they live in the UK and intend to remain here. It would appear those most critical don't live here/don't intend to stay here.

northernladuk
13th September 2016, 10:26
Can't we send MF to Europe. That should help balance the scales somewhat?

LondonManc
13th September 2016, 10:36
Blaming immigrants is so easy. They're ill equipped to defend themselves.

We might consider during those 13 years of Labour that BHS owner Phillip Green was already masterminding how to extract a pension fund for his own gain. I don't think the recently redundant would blame immigrants.

Yes, that's what he said. Ill-equipped, no assets, very little in the way of a career ladder. You are a bit dim at times.

scooterscot
13th September 2016, 11:21
Didn't Merkel get a drubbing in some election the other day?


Glad to see you know your geography. Any ideas what part of Germany those voters were from?

The Only Way Is Keynsham
13th September 2016, 11:42
Glad to see you know your geography. Any ideas what part of Germany those voters were from?

Don't tell me.

The bits not already overrun by 3rd world immigration ?
Those who have seen what's happened elsewhere & don't want it in their manor?

scooterscot
13th September 2016, 11:52
Perhaps posters to this thread can first 'fess up as to whether they live in the UK and intend to remain here. It would appear those most critical don't live here/don't intend to stay here.

The UK is not a place where people live. Come on. It's a place where people live to work.

The_Equalizer
13th September 2016, 12:01
The UK is not a place where people live. Come on. It's a place where people live to work.

The South-East maybe, other parts definitely not. What is odd, given how awful people purport the UK to be, there's no shortage of people who seem more than happy to turn up.

shaunbhoy
13th September 2016, 12:12
The UK is not a place where people live. Come on. It's a place where people live to work.

Maybe the parts of the UK that YOU have lived in. I have lived in a variety of places across the UK and there are plenty of nice places. I have also lived in Germany.....and Poland.....and Belgium......and Italy.......and Cyprus......and Holland.....and Sweden.......and Ireland....and Lebanon...and India. And by "live" I don't mean a week or two holiday, I mean living and working for weeks, months, and even years on end.
Most if not all had their pluses and minuses, but overall I still give Blighty the edge.
Then again, maybe I am not an insecure prejudiced glass-half-empty fookwit like some?

The Only Way Is Keynsham
13th September 2016, 12:30
Maybe the parts of the UK that YOU have lived in. I have lived in a variety of places across the UK and there are plenty of nice places. I have also lived in Germany.....and Poland.....and Belgium......and Italy.......and Cyprus......and Holland.....and Sweden.......and Ireland....and Lebanon...and India. And by "live" I don't mean a week or two holiday, I mean living and working for weeks, months, and even years on end.
Most if not all had their pluses and minuses, but overall I still give Blighty the edge.
Then again, maybe I am not an insecure prejudiced glass-half-empty fookwit like some?

Same here and we all knock it from time to time but there are things here that are just unparalleled anywhere else in the world.

The countryside, public footpaths, the aesthetics of everyday objects e.g. postboxes, bus shelters (ok, so the modern ones are cr@p), the RNLI, rural pubs, unarmed police and loads more.

These are all things I've missed whilst living abroad. Even the weather; when you're somewhere where the weather varies between 30 & 50 degrees c, you don't half long for a damp, stormy autumnal day.

tomtomagain
13th September 2016, 12:37
In Germany they have:

Free university,
Free national travel for students,
Excellent technical colleges,
As much respect given to those who enter trades,
Apprenticeships that pay €10 an hour, not less than £3,
Workfare that's paid employment,
Non judgmental welfare system,
Excellent social housing,
Rent protection and security of tenure for tenants,
Little in the way of zero hours, minimum hours style employment..

WHAT's OUR EXCUSE?!!


I do find these sorts of differences very interesting.

Why the difference? I'll make a broad assumption that human beings are equally capable wherever they are born. There is no innate superiority in any group.


First of all, from looking at your list, there is no such thing as "Free". They don't have "Free" university or travel in Germany ( or anywhere else ) some,somewhere, is paying for the right of your child to go to University or to travel on the train. It's just that the cost is hidden within general taxation.

So it is not that we cannot have free uni or travel. But that we don't prioritise it against other Government spending.

Again I'll make an assumption that the overall tax-take in the UK compared to Germany is roughly the same ( about 30% of GDP ).

So where does the UK deploy it's resources? One thing that really stands out to me is that the UK spends $55B ( 2% of GDP ) per year on defence as apposed to only $40B ( 1.2% of GDP ) by Germany.

We really overspend on our armed forces given the size and easy defensibility of the UK and the few remaining overseas territories. Simply by scaling back our spending to the same amount as Germany we'd have £10B per year "spare" to spend on infrastructure or education. That would soon mount up. £100B extra on infrastructure each decade.

Likewise if Germany increased it's spending it would need to find an extra 40 - 50B per year. Which of course they could do, but would mean either increasing borrowing, raising taxes or reducing benefits. Or, more likely, a mix of all 3.


Secondly regarding uni, free travel, housing and education. I think demographics plays a lot into this. For years Germany has had a declining population. So it is cheaper to provide these resources "for free". You don't need to build so many houses if your population is falling. Plus they have more physical space, which makes it easier and cheaper to build new stuff.

As an aside. It always makes me wonder : If Germany is so great for children, why aren't they having any? ( not sure if you can answer that one ).


From the rest or your list:

"Workfare that's paid employment" - that's been raised in the UK before but rejected. It's essentially getting unemployed people to work for their benefits. Which sounds good to some, but it's exploitative and undermines other people doing a similar job.

"Non judgmental welfare system" - not sure that's a good thing. Surely a welfare system should judge in order to allocate resources to those who need them most? Obviously those judging need to be properly trained and regulated.


"As much respect given to those who enter trades" - I'd agree. More focus on training and providing employment for non-academic people would be a good thing. Better to train and employ people as builders rather than importing builders and paying your own people to be on the dole.

"Little in the way of zero hours, minimum hours style employment" - not sure this is a big deal. zero-hours contracts are only 3% of the UK workforce and there is a benefit to having them. It's very flexible, of course they can be abused by some employers but that's not to say they are entirely awful.

MrMarkyMark
13th September 2016, 13:06
Same here and we all knock it from time to time but there are things here that are just unparalleled anywhere else in the world.

The countryside, public footpaths, the aesthetics of everyday objects e.g. postboxes, bus shelters (ok, so the modern ones are cr@p), the RNLI, rural pubs, unarmed police and loads more.

These are all things I've missed whilst living abroad. Even the weather; when you're somewhere where the weather varies between 30 & 50 degrees c, you don't half long for a damp, stormy autumnal day.

You've forgotten fold up bikes, trains etc. Martin :D

scooterscot
13th September 2016, 14:24
As an aside. It always makes me wonder : If Germany is so great for children, why aren't they having any? ( not sure if you can answer that one ).

People leave it too late. They come out of education in their late twenties, start professional life in the early thirties. Before you know it that special someone comes along in the mid-thrities. Too late.

Agree with defence. UK spends too much in this area (or gets ripped off through supply-chain, much of the same thing). The UK also spends far too much daily on debt interest payments.

UK debt is ignored nearly all of the time by the media. What is GDP now, 91%? Compared to Germany's 76%? 15% might not sounds like a massive difference but explains much about how so many public services remain free rather than hidden in tax.

tomtomagain
13th September 2016, 14:55
UK debt is ignored nearly all of the time by the media. What is GDP now, 91%? Compared to Germany's 76%? 15% might not sounds like a massive difference

That is very true. the repayment cost is £8 in every £100 that the government spends.

The Only Way Is Keynsham
13th September 2016, 20:30
Same here and we all knock it from time to time but there are things here that are just unparalleled anywhere else in the world.

The countryside, public footpaths, the aesthetics of everyday objects e.g. postboxes, bus shelters (ok, so the modern ones are cr@p), the RNLI, rural pubs, unarmed police and loads more.

These are all things I've missed whilst living abroad. Even the weather; when you're somewhere where the weather varies between 30 & 50 degrees c, you don't half long for a damp, stormy autumnal day.

I should also like to add canals and narrowboats.

Had a lovely drive back tonight along the A4 through Hungerford and Marlborough, windows down with Steely Dans' Aja blaring out.

Decided to pop into Great Bedwyn to see the huge steam beam engines that abstract the water that fills the flight of 26 locks at Caen Hill. Impressive stuff.

I then went for a pint of Summer Lightening at the Who'd A Thought It in Lockridge & to continue the evening's K&A theme, a spot of gongoozling clutching a pint of cloudy cider in the garden of the Barge Inn, Bradford On Avon before driving back home.

You see, you just can't have an evening like that in Germany. Though I'll give the Jerries one thing; they do camper vans much better than us and I say that as the former owner of a VW Westfalia T4.

SueEllen
14th September 2016, 03:40
People leave it too late. They come out of education in their late twenties, start professional life in the early thirties. Before you know it that special someone comes along in the mid-thrities. Too late.


Mid-30s isn't too late to have children - if it was plenty of people I know including myself wouldn't be here.

The fact is Germany is clearly not a parent friendly country. If it was German women would want to have and would have children.

darmstadt
14th September 2016, 05:50
I should also like to add canals and narrowboats.

Had a lovely drive back tonight along the A4 through Hungerford and Marlborough, windows down with Steely Dans' Aja blaring out.

Decided to pop into Great Bedwyn to see the huge steam beam engines that abstract the water that fills the flight of 26 locks at Caen Hill. Impressive stuff.

I then went for a pint of Summer Lightening at the Who'd A Thought It in Lockridge & to continue the evening's K&A theme, a spot of gongoozling clutching a pint of cloudy cider in the garden of the Barge Inn, Bradford On Avon before driving back home.

You see, you just can't have an evening like that in Germany. Though I'll give the Jerries one thing; they do camper vans much better than us and I say that as the former owner of a VW Westfalia T4.

Probably because they don't live in 'La-La Land' :laugh

NotAllThere
14th September 2016, 07:18
I do find these sorts of differences very interesting.

Why the difference? I'll make a broad assumption that human beings are equally capable wherever they are born. There is no innate superiority in any group.Point of order. We Brits are superior to every people group on the planet. It's just the way it is.


As an aside. It always makes me wonder : If Germany is so great for children, why aren't they having any? ( not sure if you can answer that one ).Perhaps there are fewer chav estates where sprogs are popped out once a year per chavette?

scooterscot
14th September 2016, 08:13
Mid-30s isn't too late to have children - if it was plenty of people I know including myself wouldn't be here.

The fact is Germany is clearly not a parent friendly country. If it was German women would want to have and would have children.

Are you telling me Germans don't procreate, they assimilate?

Resistance is futile.

scooterscot
14th September 2016, 08:26
Mid-30s isn't too late to have children - if it was plenty of people I know including myself wouldn't be here.

The fact is Germany is clearly not a parent friendly country. If it was German women would want to have and would have children.

On a serious note, amongst my fraternity of mid to late thirty somethings there is indeed many who want children but don't or can't. Life gets in the way. Whether it be work, biology (been trying for years), for some a conscious choice from affordability (people back home don't recognise this option), or failed relationships I realise how fortuitous we were. Out of say 10 couples we know well only three have sprogs.

"So Süss" you hear all the time when we're in the parks or walking through the street. To suggest folks here are not parent friendly is bizarre and a little bit crass when I know so many would like to.