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scooterscot
7th October 2016, 09:35
Really scary talk coming out of that conference hall. Like 1930's Germany. I don't believe they represent the core of the UK. I have to believe that.


Meanwhile her up north provides some reassurance


Like most people, I’ve read some of the headlines coming from the Tory conference over the last few days with a mixture of disbelief and horror.


Firms to be forced to list the number of foreign workers they employ.

Doctors from overseas to be told they’re not welcome.

And perhaps most disgracefully of all – Trade Secretary Liam Fox’s description of EU nationals living in the UK as negotiating “cards” to be used in Brexit bargaining.

As we reach the end of the Conservative party conference - and as the full reality of Theresa May’s vision of Brexit Britain is revealed – I want to say clearly, to all those who live in Scotland and contribute to their communities, wherever you were born, wherever you are from, that you are welcome here.

The thinly-veiled xenophobia echoing around the Birmingham International Convention Centre this week – seemingly to rapturous applause from the Tory grass roots – is opening a new and very dark chapter in UK politics. But it is not one that we should allow to take root in Scotland.

The UK-wide Brexit vote has sent shockwaves throughout the country – but it is no excuse for political debate to sink so low as to be about where people are born.

Now I think it is important that we are able to consider the challenges and opportunities that migration brings openly and honestly - about what level of immigration our economy needs or what skills we need to attract.

But it must be a rational debate that recognises the benefits that migrants bring to our society.

That’s not what we are hearing from the Tories.

Just look at Jeremy Hunt’s comments on foreign doctors. They weren’t only deeply inflammatory – they were also completely irresponsible.

Sending out such a hostile message will cause problems for the NHS right now, making it more difficult for health boards to recruit the foreign workers we need to fill current vacancies.

Now, of course it’s important to invest in our NHS workforce at home – and in Scotland we recently announced an additional 50 medical student places in Scottish universities from August this year, as well as a new Graduate Entry Medical programme with up to 40 places available.

But if there aren’t enough doctors being trained in England – don’t blame foreign doctors, blame the UK Government for failing to invest enough in our valuable NHS.

Look at Amber Rudd’s announcement that foreign companies should be forced to list the number of foreign workers they employ.

This sends an absolutely terrible message to business and potential investors – giving the impression that there is something shameful in companies recruiting skilled staff who will help them succeed.

I know that immigration causes issues in certain areas – I see it in parts of my own constituency.

But the answer is to manage immigration properly and to invest in public services and job creation.

It is not to declare open season on people from other countries.

People who come here to work make a contribution to our society.

In Scotland, far too many people believe they have to leave home to get a good job.

That means we need to build an economy and society that creates more opportunity – both for those brought up here and for those who want to live and work in Scotland.

That way we can boost the working-age population, generating the tax revenue needed to pay our pensions and sustain our public services.

I don’t believe that a majority of people in the rest of the UK really want to throw out doctors from other countries or force non-UK workers to be listed by their companies.

We cannot allow the politics of division, of race, ethnicity and intolerance to become the politics of the UK – and we will not allow it to become the politics of Scotland.

Yesterday Ruth Davidson claimed to delegates in the Tory conference hall that the SNP does not speak for Scotland.

If she thinks that anything coming out of the Tory party conference this week is in tune with the progressive, outward-looking Scotland that voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, then she is even more out of touch than her colleagues at Westminster.

Scotland is fortunate to have been enriched by the contribution of those from other countries down the years – Irish, Italians, Pakistanis, Poles and many more – who have become part of the very fabric of our nation.

A few months back I read a fantastic piece in the Daily Record about Annette Street Primary in Govanhill in my constituency, which the right-wing press had seized on for ‘having no Scottish pupils’.

Those kids may have been born in countries all over the world, but they are clearly proud of their adopted homeland – and quickly hit back by posting a video of themselves online singing Flower of Scotland.

Why is it that a group of primary-age children, from enormously diverse backgrounds, are able to come together and feel perfectly comfortable with their multiple identities – yet the Tory government can sow only division and mistrust?

If there’s one thing we’ve learned from the Tory conference, it is that it is perfectly clear who the divisive, nasty nationalists are.

This week has been a chilling glimpse into the soul of Theresa May’s Tory Party.

Oh, and the magnificent Birmingham International Convention Centre where the Tories chose to hold their conference this week? It was part-funded by – you’ve guessed it – the European Union.

SueEllen
7th October 2016, 09:38
You forget Scooter the Tory conference is mostly speaking to coffin dodgers.

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 09:41
I hope so...

MrMarkyMark
7th October 2016, 09:43
This sends an absolutely terrible message to business and potential investors – giving the impression that there is something shameful in companies recruiting skilled staff who will help them succeed.


Obviously full of gems, especially this one.
Would we consider Foreign IT workers from the likes of TCS, Cognizant etc. under this skilled staff banner, do they help companies succeed?

The main reason business's employ foreign workers is because they are cheap, period.

Benny
7th October 2016, 09:45
Firms to be forced to list the number of foreign workers they employ.
Sounds reasonable - hopefully will expose the ICT abuses too


Doctors from overseas to be told they’re not welcome.
Is that really what they said or was it "introduce more UK-trained physicians into NHS to make it more ‘self-sufficient" which seems a very sensible approach, if we can do the same for engineers IT workers etc then I'm all for this approach, perhaps give the yoof of today a career path


And perhaps most disgracefully of all – Trade Secretary Liam Fox’s description of EU nationals living in the UK as negotiating “cards” to be used in Brexit bargaining.
Let's kick em all out anyway - will alleviate the pressure on education, NHS, judiciary etc, if any shortages of staff results then we can adopt #2

If EU wants to play hard ball then impose 100% import Tarrifs on goods & negotiate against that

vetran
7th October 2016, 09:45
that ashamed of the source you didn't want to include a link?

Tory conference has exposed the real nasty nationalists, says Nicola Sturgeon - Nicola Sturgeon - Daily Record (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/tory-conference-exposed-real-nasty-8988603)

Its wee Jimmy off again. Remind me what did her party say about the English during the lost vote?

Not sure how we tackle importing cheap labour but sending search parties out doesn't seem popular anymore thank Deity,

Reporting how many and why firms employing foreign staff may allow us to make sure her constituents get a job that they have been trained for and are paid a fair wage for doing. Alternatively we can continue to allow firms to undercut the minimum wage and avoid UK tax so the coffers are empty when Scotland needs a top up.

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 09:45
The main reason business's employ foreign workers is because they are cheap, period.

That's part of the process. The main reason is shareholders and short-term gains.

GB9
7th October 2016, 09:46
Is that her up north that has been sending out scaremongering letters to people completely out of the blue?

And as for people as bargaining chips: I'm afraid if the likes of Hollande are going to say what he did yesterday and that we must pay a price for leaving then everything is fair game.

The people of Europe need to take a long hard look at what their so called 'leaders' are going to inflict on them.

minestrone
7th October 2016, 09:47
A few months back I read a fantastic piece in the Daily Record about Annette Street Primary in Govanhill in my constituency, which the right-wing press had seized on for ‘having no Scottish pupils’.

Those kids may have been born in countries all over the world, but they are clearly proud of their adopted homeland – and quickly hit back by posting a video of themselves online singing Flower of Scotland.

Absolute tulipe.

Place is an absolute bombsite, they are prostituting their children and robbing pensioners at knife point.

I'm in the area fairly often, this is normal...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iZTarbeaUM

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 09:47
And as for people as bargaining chips: I'm afraid if the likes of Holland are going to say what he did yesterday an that we must pay a price for leaving then everything is fair game.



He only said that after Dr Liam's comment. 'Oh we've got a good hand here with those EU nationals living' or something to that effect. The idiot that he is.

vetran
7th October 2016, 09:49
Is that her up north that has been sending out scaremongering letters to people completely out of the blue?

And as for people as bargaining chips: I'm afraid if the likes of Hollande are going to say what he did yesterday an that we must pay a price for leaving then everything is fair game.

The people of Europe need to take a long hard look at what their so called 'leaders' are going to inflict on them.

agree people will unfortunately be bargaining chips, expect the EU to treat our Expats terribly that's probably why the expats are all bremoaners they know how teh EU think. I doubt the UK wish it to be so or will treat EU citizens badly on purpose.

MrMarkyMark
7th October 2016, 09:51
That's part of the process. The main reason is shareholders and short-term gains.


No, that's where the process starts, it feeds those other two and is strongly driven by bonuses paid to drive down costs.

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 09:52
I hope so...

I think you should come clean and explain why you constantly post such wind up threads. This is no less a piece of propaganda than the stuff it purports to put down. What exact is your beef with the English?

vetran
7th October 2016, 09:52
Absolute tulipe.

Place is an absolute bombsite, they are prostituting their children and robbing pensioners at knife point.

I'm in the area fairly often, this is normal...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iZTarbeaUM

makes Chalvey look posh.

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 09:53
Absolute tulipe.

Place is an absolute bombsite, they are prostituting their children and robbing pensioners at knife point.

I'm in the area fairly often, this is normal...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iZTarbeaUM

Das ist ganz tulipe and you know it! I'm in ibrox and similar areas now and again. It's no different to the sectarianism i grew up with.

But if we're to support the message of hate and divide then the country that i once knew really has changed.

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 09:54
It's no different to the sectarianism i grew up with.

Go on... We're getting slightly closer to the truth.

darmstadt
7th October 2016, 09:54
You forget Scooter the Tory conference is mostly speaking to coffin dodgers.

Although not at the conference, some younger people really like what is coming out: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/less-brexit-more-housebuilding-young-voters-on-theresa-may

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 09:56
Scary

original PM
7th October 2016, 09:57
agree people will unfortunately be bargaining chips, expect the EU to treat our Expats terribly that's probably why the expats are all bremoaners they know how teh EU think. I doubt the UK wish it to be so or will treat EU citizens badly on purpose.

Not sure the Spanish would be too keen to kick all the uk expats etc out - the are propping up the economy!

NotAllThere
7th October 2016, 10:02
makes Chalvey look posh.

Dunno. Couldn't understand it. Any chance of a translation into English? :wink

vetran
7th October 2016, 10:04
Not sure the Spanish would be too keen to kick all the uk expats etc out - the are propping up the economy!

They may well just confiscate their assets, its not like they haven't done it before.

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 10:05
Not sure the Spanish would be too keen to kick all the uk expats etc out - the are propping up the economy!

You think them pensioners want their pension paid in pounds still??

minestrone
7th October 2016, 10:07
The SNP spend their days whipping up hysteria and division.

It is now normalised to compare leaving the EU with the rise of the Third Reich.

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 10:08
They may well just confiscate their assets, its not like they haven't done it before.

Perhaps we could build special workers camps for them immigrants eh?

vetran
7th October 2016, 10:16
Perhaps we could build special workers camps for them immigrants eh?

I don't think they have been popular since Franco's time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_concentration_camps

I would suspect most of the pensioners would be a poor choice as they are getting on a bit.

Maybe the SNP can create them in Ecosse when they realise that after independence the books don't balance?

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 10:30
Really scary talk coming out of that conference hall. Like 1930's Germany. I don't believe they represent the core of the UK. I have to believe that.


Meanwhile her up north provides some reassurance

Must only be half of the SNP that don't like 1930s Germany:

Voters Back Naming Shaming - Guido Fawkes (http://order-order.com/2016/10/06/voters-back-naming-shaming/)

:laugh

bobspud
7th October 2016, 10:48
Don't see what the problem is.

We as a country are paying billions for a class of people that:

Can't get jobs (because they are too low paid compared to what we pay to support them)
Get bigger houses if they have more kids
Have plenty of time to breed without understanding it takes 20 years to actually have a kid.


We need to make it uncomfortable for companies that are using low paid slaves to drive wages below what the state hands out. If it was down to me I would enforce a policy that states that foreign workers must be paid a minimum wage around £200 per hour to account for the wider damage caused when its easier for a company to use them than train the local workforce.

If we need specialists thats fine. £200 per hour is a going rate for a specialist.

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 11:05
If people knew that M&S, Tesco and probably most food brands in the UK are 99% foreign staffed do you think their sales would increase or decrease?

And as we know pretty much all large IT departments are 80% staffed with Indian nationals, how this will play out? It seems fair game to go after "tax avoiders" but no figures on the amount of money being sent out of the UK by these practices?

Yes, I'm aware this was an idea in Main Kampf (what is the left's obsession with Hitler?), but so were motorways, non-smoking and a ban on fox hunting.

It wasn't the point I was making. ScooterScot seems to think everyone in England are raving racists. I was just pointing out that his beloved SNP has its fair share of people who are of the opinion that he was deriding.

MrMarkyMark
7th October 2016, 11:18
If people knew that M&S, Tesco and probably most food brands in the UK are 99% foreign staffed do you think their sales would increase or decrease?

And as we know pretty much all large IT departments are 80% staffed with Indian nationals, how this will play out? It seems fair game to go after "tax avoiders" but no figures on the amount of money being sent out of the UK by these practices?

Yes, I'm aware this was an idea in Main Kampf (what is the left's obsession with Hitler?), but so were motorways, non-smoking and a ban on fox hunting.

Been saying it for years.

Most of the big Indian outsourcers don't pay much UK tax anyway.

As well as the companies I have met plenty of Indians that contract for a while here and then shoot through without paying any taxes.
Some readily admitted this, usually worked multiple people to one LTD, shared PI insurance certs, yadda, yadda.

d000hg
7th October 2016, 11:22
If people knew that M&S, Tesco and probably most food brands in the UK are 99% foreign staffed do you think their sales would increase or decrease?

And as we know pretty much all large IT departments are 80% staffed with Indian nationals, how this will play out? It seems fair game to go after "tax avoiders" but no figures on the amount of money being sent out of the UK by these practices?Where do you get your figures of 99% and 80% from?

kolata
7th October 2016, 11:30
Been saying it for years.

Most of the big Indian outsourcers don't pay much UK tax anyway.

As well as the companies I have met plenty of Indians that contract for a while here and then shoot through without paying any taxes.
Some readily admitted this, usually worked multiple people to one LTD, shared PI insurance certs, yadda, yadda.

I guess you admire starbucks, apple and google (to name a few). They pay a lot of taxtes here.

bobspud
7th October 2016, 11:33
Where do you get your figures of 99% and 80% from?

Listen to the people sweeping the floors or stocking the shelves even manning the tills. Then go to the factories and food suppliers and listen there as well. Its might not be as high as 99% but the fact of the matter is we have a vast army of low paid people doing jobs in this country and majority of them are an immigrant workforce.

We don't need to import someone to use a broom...

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 11:36
It wasn't the point I was making. ScooterScot seems to think everyone in England are raving racists. I was just pointing out that his beloved SNP has its fair share of people who are of the opinion that he was deriding.

I don't believe that, as i said in my first post.

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 11:37
Listen to the people sweeping the floors or stocking the shelves even manning the tills. Then go to the factories and food suppliers and listen there as well. Its might not be as high as 99% but the fact of the matter is we have a vast army of low paid people doing jobs in this country and majority of them are an immigrant workforce.

We don't need to import someone to use a broom...

What we do need to do is get those who can work into work. Paying people to sit on their backside while we import labour ramping up housing costs and forcing down living conditions to boot.

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 11:38
Listen to the people sweeping the floors or stocking the shelves even manning the tills. Then go to the factories and food suppliers and listen there as well. Its might not be as high as 99% but the fact of the matter is we have a vast army of low paid people doing jobs in this country and majority of them are an immigrant workforce.

We don't need to import someone to use a broom...

Jee wheez. If that's not bigotry...

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 11:38
I don't believe that, as i said in my first post.

Which bit don't you believe? Perhaps you don't know your ex-countryfolk as well as you think you do. :wink

MrMarkyMark
7th October 2016, 11:44
I guess you admire starbucks, apple and google (to name a few). They pay a lot of taxtes here.

No, I don't admire them either.
Why on earth would I?

Oh...........I see you were trying to suggest some kind of racial overtone in my post.

Crack on.

bobspud
7th October 2016, 11:53
Jee wheez. If that's not bigotry...

Which part?

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 11:54
Which part?

No part.

minestrone
7th October 2016, 11:56
Really scary talk coming out of that conference hall. Like 1930's Germany. I don't believe they represent the core of the UK. I have to believe that.


Meanwhile her up north provides some reassurance

The SNP of course know more about Nazi Germany than most...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1wlhuiiAer8/Va6C3EtUR0I/AAAAAAAAAME/qTskgCFVDJs/s1600/Arthur%2BDonaldsob.jpg

SueEllen
7th October 2016, 12:00
What we do need to do is get those who can work into work. Paying people to sit on their backside while we import labour ramping up housing costs and forcing down living conditions to boot.

Imported labour isn't what is ramping up housing costs it is allowing Saudis, Chinese and everyone in the world to buy property as an investment and to leave it empty. And specifically in the case of the Saudis to rot. linky (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2014/jan/31/billionaires-row-inside-derelict-mansions-hampstead-london-video)

MrMarkyMark
7th October 2016, 12:04
Imported labour isn't what is ramping up housing costs it is allowing Saudis, Chinese and everyone in the world to buy property as an investment and to leave it empty. And specifically in the case of the Saudis to rot. linky (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2014/jan/31/billionaires-row-inside-derelict-mansions-hampstead-london-video)

Both are factors. Of course there are many others, lack of house building, everyone's a landlord now, Air BnB etc. etc.

e.g. a family of 6 can only afford £X for a house rental, versus people prepared to share dormitory style paying £Y between 14 or so.
This would drive up prices?
Obviously an extreme example, but a factor that was not there before.

bobspud
7th October 2016, 12:06
What we do need to do is get those who can work into work. Paying people to sit on their backside while we import labour ramping up housing costs and forcing down living conditions to boot.

We have a situation where we have industrialised being un-employed. For a family getting the full range of benefits available to them. taking £7ph to work like a dog only to then pay for someone to look after the kids is simply not of interest to them.

The fact that I used to earn todays basic living wage 20 odd years ago as a temp in the city shows there is a BIG problem for the majority of people in this country.

That wage stagnation has been caused by using cheep immigrants that are willing to take shit wages to then go home with a good pot of money thanks to a strong £.

The Australians used to come over and do the same thing in the 90's

TestMangler
7th October 2016, 12:06
The SNP of course know more about Nazi Germany than most...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1wlhuiiAer8/Va6C3EtUR0I/AAAAAAAAAME/qTskgCFVDJs/s1600/Arthur%2BDonaldsob.jpg

LOL. 'Interned' should actually say 'remanded for six weeks' and never tried or found guilty of anything.

Your beloved IRA not had any links to Nazi Germany then ??

Twat.

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 12:08
Imported labour isn't what is ramping up housing costs it is allowing Saudis, Chinese and everyone in the world to buy property as an investment and to leave it empty. And specifically in the case of the Saudis to rot. linky (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2014/jan/31/billionaires-row-inside-derelict-mansions-hampstead-london-video)

Cobblers. I am happy to admit that piling a load of people into a country is only one factor, but it is a factor. You and I know we're not talking about 'derelict mansions' in Hampstead as per your Guardian link. I don't blame people for coming over to the UK to work, nor the fact that some will put up with conditions that are criminal. I'd be happy to put money on that the Saudis and Chinese don't own many houses in Burnley, Bangor or Belfast. This isn't a them or us thing.

It's quite plain. If you are using labour from abroad, and not local, there are will be double the housing, health and infrastructure requirements for that one job to be done.

minestrone
7th October 2016, 12:24
Twat.

I've touched a nerve.

The SNP always like to keep the Nazi connections hidden.

original PM
7th October 2016, 12:27
I've touched a nerve.

The SNP always like to keep the Nazi connections hidden.

Yeah - you can probably understand that!

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 12:27
I've touched a nerve.

The SNP always like to keep the Nazi connections hidden.

Your deflection is misfiring. One part of the country is leaning dangerously towards the far right and it's not the north.

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 12:28
Your deflection is misfiring. One part of the country is leaning dangerously towards the far right and it's not the north.

Are either of your parents Irish?

original PM
7th October 2016, 12:30
Your deflection is misfiring. One part of the country is leaning dangerously towards the far right and it's not the north.

Not sure it is dangerously far right - though it depends on your point of view

If you were far left than someone who is pretty central would be seen as being dangerously far right to you.

bobspud
7th October 2016, 12:38
It's quite plain. If you are using labour from abroad, and not local, there are will be double the housing, health and infrastructure requirements for that one job to be done.

We have three issues that I can see at the moment.

1) We are conning thousands of kids into Uni and the life time debts that come with that, only to then offshore the work they could do...

2) We are selling our assets like crazed drug whores. So now great swaths of our infrastructure and housing stock is tied up in tokenised assets because property is a better return than bank interest or shares. This has priced a generation out of ever owning a house. (unless you are in social housing)

3) Labour wanted to conduct a social experiment and so flooded the country with whoever wanted to come. That increased the labour market and has killed wages for most people.

We need to reintroduce scarcity and quality of labour so that it pays to be in a job.

vetran
7th October 2016, 12:43
Your deflection is misfiring. One part of the country is leaning dangerously towards the far right and it's not the north.

Far right is returning net immigration to 1980's levels (already historically high) , preventing international companies from avoiding workers rights and paying taxes, getting out of a failed club that has caused misery to millions of economic migrants and waves them through to Calais.

Not sure how that equates to thinking we are the master race or invading Poland. Its all bulltulip put forward to argue the New Lie experiment of flooding the UK with cheap labour has not failed and by a woman who turned the Independence vote into a racist decision.

Sturgeon accused of fuelling HATE and failing to tackle racism | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/701141/Nicola-Sturgeon-accused-fuelling-hate-Scotland-failing-tackle-racism)

kolata
7th October 2016, 12:49
We have three issues that I can see at the moment.

1) We are conning thousands of kids into Uni and the life time debts that come with that, only to then offshore the work they could do...

2) We are selling our assets like crazed drug whores. So now great swaths of our infrastructure and housing stock is tied up in tokenised assets because property is a better return than bank interest or shares. This has priced a generation out of ever owning a house. (unless you are in social housing)

3) Labour wanted to conduct a social experiment and so flooded the country with whoever wanted to come. That increased the labour market and has killed wages for most people.

We need to reintroduce scarcity and quality of labour so that it pays to be in a job.

Have you tried to call a polish plumber (car mechanic, carpenter, plasterer etc) and ask for a quote?
2-3 times cheaper than indigenous tradesman.

The price aside;Have you used a local tradesman? Do you know the tulip quality of the work they do and the time it takes them to do it?

Try all above. Then start preaching about locals doing stuff. Huge % of the locals are brain dead (this forum population excluded, mostly).

bobspud
7th October 2016, 12:56
Either way the situation that we have is that companies, private or otherwise; are being allowed to amass millions of pounds in revenues without properly supporting the countries and people around them. When you look at the industrial revolution, there was massive amounts of new wealth created but those people believed in legacy and grand gestures that built things we still use today.

Look at what Cadbury did for the workers in Birmingham and how that legacy it treated now...

Its time to change the attitude of the elite to understand that hoarding millions in a bank helps no-one.

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 12:56
Thanks to the Tories, now we are paying ~£405million a week to the EU instead of £350million..

minestrone
7th October 2016, 12:58
Your deflection is misfiring. One part of the country is leaning dangerously towards the far right and it's not the north.

I would like to remind you that 2 years ago Sturgeon was threating to kick out EU nationals...


“There are 160,000 EU nationals from other states living in Scotland, including some in the Commonwealth Games city of Glasgow. “If Scotland was outside *Europe, they would lose the right to stay here.”


Sturgeon warns Europeans could lose right to stay - The Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/sturgeon-warns-europeans-could-lose-right-to-stay-1-3475453)

She is a hypocritical roaster.

d000hg
7th October 2016, 12:58
Imported labour isn't what is ramping up housing costs it is allowing Saudis, Chinese and everyone in the world to buy property as an investment and to leave it empty. Isn't that largely limited to London?

vetran
7th October 2016, 12:59
Have you tried to call a polish plumber (car mechanic, carpenter, plasterer etc) and ask for a quote?
2-3 times cheaper than indigenous tradesman.

The price aside;Have you used a local tradesman? Do you know the tulip quality of the work they do and the time it takes them to do it?

Try all above. Then start preaching about locals doing stuff. Huge % of the locals are brain dead (this forum population excluded, mostly).

well everyone went to University as trades were derided. Now if we need tradesmen maybe we can train them instead of using cheap foreign labour?

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 13:00
Not sure how that equates to thinking we are the master race or invading Poland. Its all bulltulip put forward to argue the New Lie experiment of flooding the UK with cheap labour has not failed and by a woman who turned the Independence vote into a racist decision.


I would not go that far. But would you agree with:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA6XxYepCDs

vetran
7th October 2016, 13:02
Isn't that largely limited to London?

No saudis are buying all the studio flats in Slough & Walsall as well. Their Hareem sleep in the wardrobe.

There is some foreign investment but if we built lots of houses then price increases would stop and they would stop being a great investment so foreigners would stop buying them.

bobspud
7th October 2016, 13:03
Have you tried to call a polish plumber (car mechanic, carpenter, plasterer etc) and ask for a quote?
2-3 times cheaper than indigenous tradesman.

The price aside;Have you used a local tradesman? Do you know the tulip quality of the work they do and the time it takes them to do it?

Try all above. Then start preaching about locals doing stuff. Huge % of the locals are brain dead (this forum population excluded, mostly).

I think you need to take a minute to consider that not all of England is in the same state.

I have just spent the last 10 years or more renovating a barn conversion in the west country using only local trades people. I would not recommend it for fun but it worked out pretty well for me and them and our local economy. Would I have the same luck in London? probably not.
but I learned very quickly that hiring a tradesman needs to be done on recommendation not a phone book.

vetran
7th October 2016, 13:08
I would not go that far. But would you agree with:



Poorly put but broadly yes.

but should we treat people who weren't born here or haven't been accepted as citizens exactly the same as those who were?

Should we continue to increase our population to hold wages down?

Should we accept people we know are not who they say they are?


I assume you believe English students should get free Education in Scotland then?

MrMarkyMark
7th October 2016, 13:16
Have you tried to call a polish plumber (car mechanic, carpenter, plasterer etc) and ask for a quote?
2-3 times cheaper than indigenous tradesman.

The price aside;Have you used a local tradesman? Do you know the tulip quality of the work they do and the time it takes them to do it?

Try all above. Then start preaching about locals doing stuff. Huge % of the locals are brain dead (this forum population excluded, mostly).

Completely untrue and I live in London.
We use people that the family have known and used for years with no problem.

Seems its actually you that have an issue and are prejudice against indigenous people around you?

TestMangler
7th October 2016, 13:18
I've touched a nerve.

The SNP always like to keep the Nazi connections hidden.

Says the guy who condones the bombing of shopping centres.

Nothing to say about your IRA links with Germany then or did that not happen ?

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 13:25
Poorly put but broadly yes.

but should we treat people who weren't born here or haven't been accepted as citizens exactly the same as those who were?

Should we continue to increase our population to hold wages down?

Should we accept people we know are not who they say they are?


I assume you believe English students should get free Education in Scotland then?


It seems to me we often forget the reciprocal agreements that take place allowing me to work in Germany, although not born here. Do you really want me back? :eek:

Our population compared to other corners of the world is not that big, such as Singapore or Hong Kong. The housing problem is a legacy from Thatcher days gone by selling council houses and not replacing them. Stupid.

If our population were half I'd guarantee you and all white British workers they'd still be exploited by UK plc. Mark my words.

We've been a nation chasing short-term goals. That's our downfall.

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 13:34
I think you need to take a minute to consider that not all of England is in the same state.

I have just spent the last 10 years or more renovating a barn conversion in the west country using only local trades people. I would not recommend it for fun but it worked out pretty well for me and them and our local economy. Would I have the same luck in London? probably not.
but I learned very quickly that hiring a tradesman needs to be done on recommendation not a phone book.

Absolutely agree with this. Had a small-ish bedroom plastered on Wednesday which involved all walls being skimmed. Very nice chap, came recommmended and I've used him several times. £130 all in and top quality job.

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 13:39
My apologies, went for core of the argument rather than ScoterScot's bigoted opinion of England.

It boils down to some childhood grievance. He's not yet said what. Fancy enlightening us Scooter?

xoggoth
7th October 2016, 13:46
Can't see that requiring companies to reveal number of foreign workers helps in any way and probably will just increase prejudice.

Leaving aside the separate issue of asylum seekers, what we need are proper strict immigration controls to ensure that nobody comes here whose presence does not significantly outweigh any problems they add due to increased population. We need stricter, more sensible citizenship tests too. Instead of asking daft questions about who built the Tower of London etc. they should have tests to ensure people understand our laws, accept our major principles and are prepared and able to integrate.

This stuff some post about the lazy British etc, even if it is true, is not a reason to bring in migrants. Unless we tackle the problems of lax welfare, poor education or whatever else is causing our problems, then sooner or later those wonderful migrants are going to end up with the same problems. The reality is, although we are not supposed to say it, is that migration over the last 70 years has given us some of the worst performing groups.

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 13:47
It boils down to some childhood grievance. He's not yet said what. Fancy enlightening us Scooter?

What ARE you talking about?

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 14:06
What ARE you talking about?

Your massive anti-English bent. Having lived in Northern Ireland I've seen pepole with very similar opinions to yours. I'll hazard a guess that you were brought up in a part of Scotland that suffered from sectarian problems.

vetran
7th October 2016, 14:06
It seems to me we often forget the reciprocal agreements that take place allowing me to work in Germany, although not born here. Do you really want me back? :eek:

Our population compared to other corners of the world is not that big, such as Singapore or Hong Kong. The housing problem is a legacy from Thatcher days gone by selling council houses and not replacing them. Stupid.

If our population were half I'd guarantee you and all white British workers they'd still be exploited by UK plc. Mark my words.

We've been a nation chasing short-term goals. That's our downfall.


These reciprocal arrangements were always available. I have plenty of friends who have emigrated both in & out of the EU yes they had to satisfy some reasonable requirements of the host country but most higher qualified / achieving people would have no difficulty. So if you can convince your host country I'm sure you would have no problem staying. The freedom of movement rules would mean little to us.

Our population is growing 0.6% a year mainly via immigration, our Island is about the same size. If you want to live in a broom cupboard then go for it.

Of the few hundred thousand of council houses sold in Thatchers era would cover a year or two of current immigration & births. 1.8 million council houses have been sold due to the Right to Buy scheme. Of course once sold the houses don't disappear or lay empty people actually live in them afterwards so they have little impact on the housing shortage. They do however mean areas improve and they were a good way to turn council estate no go areas to partial ownership. The only effect they have on housing demand is they remove the subsidised housing so loved by famous council tenants like Bob Crowe.

Basic economics if you make a resource scarce then customers either pay more for it (wages & benefits go up) or they avoid buying it by mechanising or growing their own (productivity or training goes up). The more power Employees have the less they get abused.

If business becomes harder we will try harder.

vetran
7th October 2016, 14:13
Completely untrue and I live in London.
We use people that the family have known and used for years with no problem.

Seems its actually you that have an issue and are prejudice against indigenous people around you?

Our Polish Builder who was excellent he was indeed half the price of the equivalent British one , he was as busy as local ones but he managed to convince us he would produce a quality job something most of the others failed to do. He even turned up on time and spoke clearly and frequently about progress.

Our structural Engineer is British & lovely.

scooterscot
7th October 2016, 14:17
Your massive anti-English bent. Having lived in Northern Ireland I've seen pepole with very similar opinions to yours. I'll hazard a guess that you were brought up in a part of Scotland that suffered from sectarian problems.

There's nothing of the sort. It is possible not to share an opinion and not dislike at the same time you know. But we all see things how we want to.

The_Equalizer
7th October 2016, 14:25
There's nothing of the sort. It is possible not to share an opinion and not dislike at the same time you know. But we all see things how we want to.

But your view of the English and South-East is one I know to be untrue. We only eat babies every second Sunday. :wink

SueEllen
7th October 2016, 14:40
Our Polish Builder who was excellent he was indeed half the price of the equivalent British one , he was as busy as local ones but he managed to convince us he would produce a quality job something most of the others failed to do. He even turned up on time and spoke clearly and frequently about progress.

Our structural Engineer is British & lovely.

The British tradesmen myself and a few of my friends' have had problems with have been electricians.

The rest whether European - and some of them pretend to be Polish but aren't - or British have done a good quality of work.

northernladyuk
7th October 2016, 15:30
Absolute tulipe.

Place is an absolute bombsite, they are prostituting their children and robbing pensioners at knife point.

I'm in the area fairly often, this is normal...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iZTarbeaUM

At least they've kept the library open so you've got somewhere warm to go on signing-on day.