PDA

View Full Version : [Merged]Brexit stuff (part 2)



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Old Greg
29th October 2016, 19:31
Who wants some?

scooterscot
29th October 2016, 19:47
I'm guessing not him:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58171385/dc.jpg

Paddy
29th October 2016, 20:20
Boris on NHS £350M Bananas regulations and the "M" word.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O0m-931otc

original PM
29th October 2016, 21:34
And so it begins.....

Again.

Old Greg
29th October 2016, 21:59
And so it begins.....

Again.

Don't worry. Racists cretins are welcome too.

DodgyAgent
29th October 2016, 22:03
Boris on NHS £350M Bananas regulations and the "M" word.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O0m-931otc

You still haven't answered the racist question have you?

shaunbhoy
29th October 2016, 22:03
What really is the point when some anally retentive moderator will just stifle debate when their odd sensibilities are ruffled?

DodgyAgent
29th October 2016, 22:10
Don't worry. Racists cretins are welcome too.

Explain

Old Greg
29th October 2016, 22:48
Don't worry. Racists cretins are welcome too.


Explain

As if by magic the shopkeeper appeared.

NotAllThere
30th October 2016, 07:04
What really is the point when some anally retentive moderator will just stifle debate when their odd sensibilities are ruffled?

300 pages of :ladybags: and I'm stifling debate? :rollin: It's comments like that which reinforce my view that the majority of Brexiters on this site are deeply thick.

vetran
30th October 2016, 10:15
Don't worry. Racists cretins are welcome too.

yeah but what about Brexiters?

vetran
30th October 2016, 10:17
300 pages of :ladybags: and I'm stifling debate? :rollin: It's comments like that which reinforce my view that the majority of Brexiters on this site are deeply thick.

whereas almost none of the bremoaners live here or can deal with the reality they lost?

GB9
30th October 2016, 10:48
This is a parallel universe in which Remnants still think Blair is in power and that reneging on his promise to hold a referendum on Lisbon is unimportant.

Back in this universe, Paddy called typical Brexiters racist and Scooter stated that if you start name calling it's because you've lost the argument. Point proven.

Have a good day everyone.

oracleslave
30th October 2016, 11:04
jdjdsjd

original PM
30th October 2016, 12:09
Don't worry. Racists cretins are welcome too.

Hmmmmmmmm so not even ten posts and the remainers play the racist card.

:sigh:

SueEllen
30th October 2016, 12:15
Hmmmmmmmm so not even ten posts and the remainers play the racist card.

:sigh:

This is a continuation of the last thread where it was explained to DA the "typical" Brexiters was racist. It was then closed down by a certain admin.

Personally I think the typical Brexiter is an OAP or tradesman.

The first doesn't realise we have very little power on the world stage and is likely to be racist.

However the second doesn't realise it's the government screwing them to line their own pockets e.g. with directorships which is why their fees are being held down.

Paddy
30th October 2016, 12:40
This is a continuation of the last thread where it was explained to DA the "typical" Brexiters was racist. It was then closed down by a certain admin.

Personally I think the typical Brexiter is an OAP or tradesman.

The first doesn't realise we have very little power on the world stage and is likely to be racist.

However the second doesn't realise it's the government screwing them to line their own pockets e.g. with directorships which is why their fees are being held down.

LBC caller says people voted for Brexit to keep foreigners out of UK | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/724504/lbc-brexit-racist-rant-darren-adam)

original PM
30th October 2016, 12:47
LBC caller says people voted for Brexit to keep foreigners out of UK | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/724504/lbc-brexit-racist-rant-darren-adam)

So it's a good thing that you can get a latté from a an EU national who is actually living in say conditions we would find appalling as long as the price of that latté is the cheapest it can be.

Maybe Brexiters are actually saying people may be better off putting their talents to use in countries which need it? Rather than just serving lattes?

As an example obviously?

vetran
30th October 2016, 12:53
This is a continuation of the last thread where it was explained to DA the "typical" Brexiters was racist. It was then closed down by a certain admin.

Personally I think the typical Brexiter is an OAP or tradesman.

The first doesn't realise we have very little power on the world stage and is likely to be racist.

However the second doesn't realise it's the government screwing them to line their own pockets e.g. with directorships which is why their fees are being held down.

Ah more sweeping generalisations without real base or fact its like reading a Government remain pamphlet.

of course neither wonder why there are so few people speaking English in the shops or believed Bruin & Mandleslime that it was a conscious decision to hold wages down by undercutting them with cheap imports.


racism
NOUN

1[mass noun] Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
‘a programme to combat racism’

1.1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
‘theories of racism’

this definition of racism doesn't seem to include

"I'm not quite sure why so many new people are in the UK and why are all the hospitals & Schools full?"
"Why can't we deport terrorists?" (Yes I know its an EU quango not an actual EU court).
"Why are all the people who want to remain out of the UK already?" Don't they believe the EU loves them and will want to keep them?

etc.

Or have we given up on dictionaries because you are morally superior?

Do please explain how a Brexiter is racist? Not seen it yet if its so self evident why did "Moody Mod" kill the thread?

SueEllen
30th October 2016, 12:54
So it's a good thing that you can get a latté from a an EU national who is actually living in say conditions we would find appalling as long as the price of that latté is the cheapest it can be.

Maybe Brexiters are actually saying people may be better off putting their talents to use in countries which need it? Rather than just serving lattes?

As an example obviously?

Oddly you presume the only EU nationals I meet work serving coffee. EU nationals are every where.

vetran
30th October 2016, 12:58
Oddly you presume the only EU nationals I meet work serving coffee. EU nationals are every where.

are they???

oh my God we are overrun - you some sort of racist brexiter?

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 13:04
whereas almost none of the bremoaners live here or can deal with the reality they lost?

Remainers are usually educated liberals, intelligent, tolerant of minorities, economically sound unlike the Tories selling the family silver at every opportunity, don't resort to slander in the face of abuse (Jeremy Corbyn at PMQ for instance, May calling him everything under the sun but he never lowers himself).

Meanwhile the Wrexiters come across with short-sighted arguments combined with a sense of fury at everything that moves.

vetran
30th October 2016, 13:14
Remainers are usually educated liberals, intelligent, tolerant of minorities, economically sound unlike the Tories selling the family silver at every opportunity, don't resort to slander in the face of abuse (Jeremy Corbyn at PMQ for instance, May calling him everything under the sun but he never lowers himself).

Meanwhile the Wrexiters come across with short-sighted arguments combined with a sense of fury at everything that moves.

Probably because May wasn't Jewish he would have probably said something then. Now if she were a terrorist he would be all over like a rash. I think we need a new Internet rule, how many posts before someone mentions a lame or dangerous politician.

Labour only have fire sales on Gold. They gave away the family silver.

Pretty sure a number of defunct organisations were flogged by Liebour just as Labour closed more pits than Maggie.

GB9
30th October 2016, 13:36
Remainers are usually educated liberals, intelligent, tolerant of minorities, economically sound unlike the Tories selling the family silver at every opportunity, don't resort to slander in the face of abuse (Jeremy Corbyn at PMQ for instance, May calling him everything under the sun but he never lowers himself).

Meanwhile the Wrexiters come across with short-sighted arguments combined with a sense of fury at everything that moves.

Being a Liberal is nothing to boast about And have a look at the demographic of the vote before you make assertions.

Brexiters don't want a central European government which is where the EU Commission is heading.

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 14:01
Brexiters don't want a central European government which is where the EU Commission is heading.

Wrexiters don't know what they want. Their illustrious leader May whatsit doesn't even know.

The EU has achieved so much for citizens who live there it is astounding. Compare the progress the EU has made in the last 40 years to that of America. I know which continent I'd rather live on without at doubt. Europe continues to be one of the most desirable parts of the world. And the U.S.—a country that is in serious decline both economically and in terms of civil liberties—needs to take a close look at some of the things that European countries are doing right.

original PM
30th October 2016, 16:06
Wrexiters don't know what they want. Their illustrious leader May whatsit doesn't even know.

The EU has achieved so much for citizens who live there it is astounding. Compare the progress the EU has made in the last 40 years to that of America. I know which continent I'd rather live on without at doubt. Europe continues to be one of the most desirable parts of the world. And the U.S.—a country that is in serious decline both economically and in terms of civil liberties—needs to take a close look at some of the things that European countries are doing right.

But have these things happened because of the EU specifically or because in general things have got better?

vetran
30th October 2016, 16:12
But have these things happened because of the EU specifically or because in general things have got better?

Only Mother Bruxelles can nurture our children!

Up the Federation Comrades!

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 16:49
But have these things happened because of the EU specifically or because in general things have got better?

Not sure how peace in Europe, the progress the EU has made, could be mutually exclusive events. Cooperation between member states for the benefit of the greater whole has only made the EU stronger in some ways.

shaunbhoy
30th October 2016, 16:57
Not sure how peace in Europe, the progress the EU has made, could be mutually exclusive events.

Peace in Europe has been sustained because of NATO, in large part due to the financial clout of the USA.
The EU has had very little part to play in the securing of peace.



Cooperation between member states for the benefit of the greater whole has only made the EU stronger in some ways.

The original idea of a Union of free markets, all trading with each other was a sound one, and worked very well for a great many years. However, the leadership of this EU drifted ever further away from the simple notion of mutual trade alliances and created the profligate and controlling monstrosity that it has now morphed into.
When a Club has reached the point that it actively threatens to mete out punishment to any member that wishes to leave that club, then it is past its sell-by date.
We will be but the first to Leave it.

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 17:13
Peace in Europe has been sustained because of NATO, in large part due to the financial clout of the USA.
The EU has had very little part to play in the securing of peace..

The ignorance of the brexiter laid bare. Why was the EU formed?

"The European Union is set up with the aim of ending the frequent and bloody wars between neighbours, which culminated in the Second World War. As of 1950, the European Coal and Steel Community begins to unite European countries economically and politically in order to secure lasting peace."

Quite an inditement considering the results for the past 60 years.

European Union receives Nobel Peace Prize 2012
(https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history/2010-today/2012/eu-nobel_en)

I start by talking about peace in Europe and you scale it up to the northern hemisphere. Thick as a whale omelette you are.

jamesbrown
30th October 2016, 17:22
Remainers ... don't resort to slander in the face of abuse


Thick as a whale omelette you are.

Mm, hmm.

Paddy
30th October 2016, 17:27
Peace in Europe has been sustained because of NATO, in large part due to the financial clout of the USA.
The EU has had very little part to play in the securing of peace.



The original idea of a Union of free markets, all trading with each other was a sound one, and worked very well for a great many years. However, the leadership of this EU drifted ever further away from the simple notion of mutual trade alliances and created the profligate and controlling monstrosity that it has now morphed into.
When a Club has reached the point that it actively threatens to mete out punishment to any member that wishes to leave that club, then it is past its sell-by date.
We will be but the first to Leave it.

What a load of Tosh, you best get back to playing Call of Duty.

It is ironic that you belittle the EU based in Brussels but you but you lick the boots of SHAPE based in Brussels and happily be the pet poodle of the USA

SueEllen
30th October 2016, 17:27
are they???

oh my God we are overrun - you some sort of racist brexiter?

Where did I say "we are overrun" ?

NotAllThere
30th October 2016, 17:29
Remainers ... don't resort to slander in the face of abuse


Thick as a whale omelette you are.It's not slander when it's true.

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 17:30
Mm, hmm.

I'm rescinding that clause. It wasn't an insult. That was a statement of fact.

Clause reenacted.

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 17:31
It's not slander when it's true.

He's a special case, com on...

vetran
30th October 2016, 17:31
Where did I say "we are overrun" ?

Read your post again as if you were a stereotypical brexiter as described by bremoaners then realise I'm taking the mick.


obviously too subtle.

MrMarkyMark
30th October 2016, 17:42
He's a special case, com on...

The absolute irony of you questioning others intelligence :laugh

DodgyAgent
30th October 2016, 18:26
LBC caller says people voted for Brexit to keep foreigners out of UK | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/724504/lbc-brexit-racist-rant-darren-adam)

You still have not explained what is racist about wanting to control your borders.

DodgyAgent
30th October 2016, 18:27
What a load of Tosh, you best get back to playing Call of Duty.

It is ironic that you belittle the EU based in Brussels but you but you lick the boots of SHAPE based in Brussels and happily be the pet poodle of the USA

Explain :winker:

Paddy
30th October 2016, 18:28
Off topic, but there is a bottle of Slivovitz in front of me screaming “drink me”

shaunbhoy
30th October 2016, 18:56
I start by talking about peace in Europe and you scale it up to the northern hemisphere. Thick as a whale omelette you are.

I think you will find that Europe IS entirely in the northern hemisphere. And that the "Peace" that has existed has been down to the presence of NATO troops rather than the mountains of bureaucracy that have emanated from the talking shop in Brussels.

HTH BIDI

:eyes

vetran
30th October 2016, 19:03
I think you will find that Europe IS entirely in the northern hemisphere. And that the "Peace" that has existed has been down to the presence of NATO troops rather than the mountains of bureaucracy that have emanated from the talking shop in Brussels.

HTH BIDI

:eyes

I always think the fact that most of the nations can turn their opponents capital city into glass within minutes might have a bit of a part in it. Either that or Pakistan, Israel & Korea wasted their money!

Not sure knowing what grade a Banana is has saved bloodshed. Serbia & Russia's invasion of Georgia sort of suggest the EU did F all for peace.

NotAllThere
30th October 2016, 19:05
You still have not explained what is racist about wanting to control your borders.Wanting to control your borders is not racist. Racists want to prevent anyone who isn't of approved ethnic origin coming in, and call that "controlling the borders"; this is the attitude that you (and others), and I'm sure inadvertently, are broadcasting.

HTH

shaunbhoy
30th October 2016, 19:14
Racists want to prevent anyone who isn't of approved ethnic origin coming in, and call that "controlling the borders"; this is the attitude that you (and others), and I'm sure inadvertently, are broadcasting.

HTH

Just possibly, the way your tiny mind (and others) is processing these messages is causing you to get the wrong end of the stick?

vetran
30th October 2016, 19:24
Just possibly, the way your tiny mind (and others) is processing these messages is causing you to get the wrong end of the stick?

no he is a highly educated bremoaner he can't be wrong

DodgyAgent
30th October 2016, 19:34
Wanting to control your borders is not racist. Racists want to prevent anyone who isn't of approved ethnic origin coming in, and call that "controlling the borders"; this is the attitude that you (and others), and I'm sure inadvertently, are broadcasting.

HTH

:laugh:laugh I think you need to explain that

GB9
30th October 2016, 20:35
Wrexiters don't know what they want. Their illustrious leader May whatsit doesn't even know.

The EU has achieved so much for citizens who live there it is astounding. Compare the progress the EU has made in the last 40 years to that of America. I know which continent I'd rather live on without at doubt. Europe continues to be one of the most desirable parts of the world. And the U.S.—a country that is in serious decline both economically and in terms of civil liberties—needs to take a close look at some of the things that European countries are doing right.

We don't want our laws created in a different country or indeed a central European government. There, that was easy, wasn't it.

What has the US got to do with anything?

The EU is the most backward and outdated organisation I can think of, only comparable with FIFA. At a time when people are calling for greater devolution, the EU is going in the opposite direction. Just think how the people of the USSR fought to escape the powers of Russia, whereas you want to walk into an equivalent. How do you justify the treatment of Greece? You really don't realise what you are doing.

And peace has far more to do with improvements in communications and weapons technology. I notice that the EU didn't rush to the aid of Yugoslavia or the Ukraine even though they were just next door.

Old Greg
30th October 2016, 21:01
We don't want our laws created in a different country or indeed a central European government. There, that was easy, wasn't it.

What has the US got to do with anything?

The EU is the most backward and outdated organisation I can think of, only comparable with FIFA. At a time when people are calling for greater devolution, the EU is going in the opposite direction. Just think how the people of the USSR fought to escape the powers of Russia, whereas you want to walk into an equivalent. How do you justify the treatment of Greece? You really don't realise what you are doing.

And peace has far more to do with improvements in communications and weapons technology. I notice that the EU didn't rush to the aid of Yugoslavia or the Ukraine even though they were just next door.

It is hard to think of a more backward and outdated organisation than the EU with its hereditary monarchy and house of lords.

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 21:49
I think you will find that Europe IS entirely in the northern hemisphere. And that the "Peace" that has existed has been down to the presence of NATO troops rather than the mountains of bureaucracy that have emanated from the talking shop in Brussels.

HTH BIDI

:eyes

NATO demonstrated its failure preventing the invasion of Iraq. You argue it keeps the peace, it did anything but when called out. To suggest it does so in Europe... you're probably one of those types who believes Trident helps to deter terrorists. Russia is all threat on news headlines and nothing more. The economy is shot, the military equipment ageing.. Most Russians like Europe, they'd never support a conflict with Europe. I thought you travelled?

Europe has been at peace because it is not an aggressor. Many of the big European players would shy away from conflicts whilst we charge in gun ho to Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan creating a vacuum for terrorists.

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 21:50
Not sure knowing what grade a Banana is has saved bloodshed. Serbia & Russia's invasion of Georgia sort of suggest the EU did F all for peace.

Remind me again what part of Europe Georgia is in?

SueEllen
30th October 2016, 21:56
NATO demonstrated its failure preventing the invasion of Iraq.

Didn't realise Iraq had anything to do with the North Atlantic area.

vetran
30th October 2016, 21:57
Remind me again what part of Europe Georgia is in?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 21:59
We don't want our laws created in a different country or indeed a central European government. There, that was easy, wasn't it.

What has the US got to do with anything?

The US = the world. When they say jump the UK performs a gold wining triple jump without a pole.

The application of EU law "The authorities in each member country are responsible for implementing EU legislation in national law and enforcing it correctly, and they must guarantee citizens’ rights under these laws."

In other words these laws are advisory, that's always been Italy's position and to an extent France. In the UK however we chose super flying TNT rather than shaping a solution that suits everyone.

You think it's bad now? Wait until we're no longer at the table. And the EU changes law for the better while the Tories transport us back to a feudal utopia.

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 22:01
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)

"a country in the Caucasus of SW Asia"

It's more Russia/Asia. The day Georgia is part of Europe I'm heading for the off.

GB9
30th October 2016, 22:05
The US = the world. When they say jump the UK performs a gold wining triple jump without a pole.



So when Obarmy threatened us with plague should we vote leave, did we:

a) bow down in subservience to our Lord and Master, the USA; or

b) did we say, 'go forth you dozy American numpty, we do what we want in this country'?

Your arguments really don't stack.

GB9
30th October 2016, 22:07
It is hard to think of a more backward and outdated organisation than the EU with its hereditary monarchy and house of lords.

Is that the same organisation that has devolved a lot of power to the Welsh, Scots and Irish? Brought in regional mayors and is looking at even more local decision making? Or is it the one that wants to create a central EU government and take power away from its member states? FIFA.

vetran
30th October 2016, 22:08
"a country in the Caucasus of SW Asia"

It's more Russia/Asia. The day Georgia is part of Europe I'm heading for the off.

Oh sorry I thought you were claiming the EU had prevented war. Obviously it only prevented war on a Thursday involving people whose name started with Z...

scooterscot
30th October 2016, 22:14
Oh sorry I thought you were claiming the EU had prevented war. Obviously it only prevented war on a Thursday involving people whose name started with Z...

Here's what I said:

"Not sure how peace in Europe, the progress the EU has made, could be mutually exclusive events. Cooperation between member states for the benefit of the greater whole has only made the EU stronger in some ways."


Peace IN Europe.

Why do brexiters only read what they want to read and not what is written?

GB9
30th October 2016, 22:24
NATO demonstrated its failure preventing the invasion of Iraq. You argue it keeps the peace, it did anything but when called out. To suggest it does so in Europe... you're probably one of those types who believes Trident helps to deter terrorists. Russia is all threat on news headlines and nothing more. The economy is shot, the military equipment ageing.. Most Russians like Europe, they'd never support a conflict with Europe. I thought you travelled?

Europe has been at peace because it is not an aggressor. Many of the big European players would shy away from conflicts whilst we charge in gun ho to Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan creating a vacuum for terrorists.

Just align the above with Ukraine for me, would you?

vetran
30th October 2016, 22:59
Here's what I said:

"Not sure how peace in Europe, the progress the EU has made, could be mutually exclusive events. Cooperation between member states for the benefit of the greater whole has only made the EU stronger in some ways."


Peace IN Europe.

Why do brexiters only read what they want to read and not what is written?

Russia is not in Europe?

NotAllThere
31st October 2016, 06:18
To be specific, it's peace in Europe between the member states.

Not only do we Ukraine (that was supposed to roll over and submit to Putin), according to Private Eye, Bosnia might be kicking off soon, as the Dayton Peace Agreement is under great tension, as the Serbs threaten a sexit. Croatia has said that if they do, then they'll respond militarily.

vetran
31st October 2016, 09:05
To be specific, it's peace in Europe between the member states.

Not only do we Ukraine (that was supposed to roll over and submit to Putin), according to Private Eye, Bosnia might be kicking off soon, as the Dayton Peace Agreement is under great tension, as the Serbs threaten a sexit. Croatia has said that if they do, then they'll respond militarily.

does the country have to start with a Z as well?

NotAllThere
31st October 2016, 09:24
does the country have to start with a Z as well?For another Balkan war? I doubt it.

Old Greg
31st October 2016, 10:08
The most outdated thing about the EU is the way the executive uses royal powers to appoint cronies to the Order of the Roman Empire.

GB9
31st October 2016, 10:38
The most outdated thing about the EU is the way the executive uses royal powers to appoint cronies to the Order of the Roman Empire.

That's almost like the EU appointing a President without the consensus of all its members.

vetran
31st October 2016, 10:40
And I thought the most outdated thing about the EU were their unapproved accounts who knew?

DodgyAgent
31st October 2016, 10:43
The most outdated thing about the EU is the way the executive uses royal powers to appoint cronies to the Order of the Roman Empire.

Which is precisely why the Uk should leave the EU :laugh

Old Greg
31st October 2016, 11:22
Which is precisely why the Uk should leave the EU :laugh

Man, you're quick.

DodgyAgent
31st October 2016, 11:29
Man, you're quick.

Razorbolloc*s is my nickname :happy

NotAllThere
31st October 2016, 11:42
Razorbolloc*s is my nickname :happy? I though it was talksalotofbolloc*s :ohwell

DodgyAgent
31st October 2016, 11:53
? I though it was talksalotofbolloc*s :ohwell

:o

BlasterBates
31st October 2016, 12:46
Nige is getting worried.

The great betrayal (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/phone-farage/farage-warns-of-great-betrayal-over-brexit/)

:D

Paddy
31st October 2016, 13:08
Nige is getting worried.

The great betrayal (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/phone-farage/farage-warns-of-great-betrayal-over-brexit/)

:D

Nigel’s not worried either way. He will get his German passport soon

Old Greg
31st October 2016, 14:34
Nige is getting worried.

The great betrayal (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/phone-farage/farage-warns-of-great-betrayal-over-brexit/)

:D

Imagine the affront to democracy of not accepting a 52 to 48 result.

BlasterBates
31st October 2016, 14:41
Imagine the affront to democracy of not accepting a 52 to 48 result.

indeed to say that a 52-48 referendum is unfinished business by a long way is very poor form indeed.

vetran
31st October 2016, 14:41
Imagine the affront to democracy of not accepting a 52 to 48 result.

yeah we should have just held the referendum again until they got the result they wanted, its the EU way!

Old Greg
31st October 2016, 14:44
yeah we should have just held the referendum again until they got the result they wanted, its the EU way!

Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017?ICID=AmpControl&0p19G=c&service=tablet)

vetran
31st October 2016, 15:15
Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017?ICID=AmpControl&0p19G=c&service=tablet)

well it would shut up the bremoaners if it were 66%

I wonder if Brexit would win again?

Lets see apart from currency being devalued, a few suppliers trying it on, the EU initially refusing to deal then softening and some refugees from Calais who are well on their way to a free pension where is the economic Armageddon? Its not like we want to listen to Bob "give me yer ffin money cuz I'm a millionaire Geldorf" is it?

milanbenes
31st October 2016, 15:21
Afternoon All,

Brexit, will it ever happen, will Britain ever implement the Article 51 or whatever it's called ?

I think it's too close to call and wouldn't put a wager on it.

But in CUK fantasy land, we can have a fantasy wager and see what happens.

So, ladies and gentlemen, place your bets, is Brexit ever going to happen or not ?

Milan in I told you so Mode.

BrilloPad
31st October 2016, 16:16
Is that the best AndyW option you could come up with?

vetran
31st October 2016, 16:23
Is that the best AndyW option you could come up with?

Indeed you could have had


I'm going out with AndyW's Mum.
AndyW likes it in or out.

AndyW's mum hates it when you pull out.
etc

MrMarkyMark
31st October 2016, 16:26
Indeed you could have had


I'm going out with AndyW's Mum.
AndyW likes it in or out.

AndyW's mum hates it when you pull out.
etc

How about:-

"Andy W's mum only likes a hard Brexit."

bobspud
31st October 2016, 16:35
I don't think we will get the choice regardless of what the remain group wants. The fact of the matter, like it or not is that we have been on the opposite side of the argument to most of Europe for the majority of our time. The core EU fantasists finally have a way to get rid of the UK and get on with what they actually want to achieve. I for one applaud them for doing it.

Now its time for the UK to get on with sorting its own act out and starting to negotiate better deals for our own benefit for the non EU countries.

There is a fair chance that the EU will be up to their eyes in social problems for several decades off the back of their inaction in Syria.

vetran
31st October 2016, 16:42
I don't think we will get the choice regardless of what the remain group wants. The fact of the matter, like it or not is that we have been on the opposite side of the argument to most of Europe for the majority of our time. The core EU fantasists finally have a way to get rid of the UK and get on with what they actually want to achieve. I for one applaud them for doing it.

Now its time for the UK to get on with sorting its own act out and starting to negotiate better deals for our own benefit for the non EU countries.

There is a fair chance that the EU will be up to their eyes in social problems for several decades off the back of their inaction in Syria.

well said

shaunbhoy
31st October 2016, 16:42
Didn't realise Iraq had anything to do with the North Atlantic area.

It doesn't, which is why NATO never really got involved. Don't tell scooter though. :wink

greenlake
31st October 2016, 18:59
Brexit will it ever happen ? Place your bets

I'm Not Sure....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVyRkl5qNb8

_V_
31st October 2016, 19:39
Mrs May will negotiate hard (that's the hard bit of Brexit) and get us a fantastic trade deal, for a piddly sum of £350m per week. She will achieve this great feat by backing down on any real immigration or freedom of movement demands.

The govt will cheer the success and never mention Brexit again.

Old Greg
31st October 2016, 20:32
Mrs May will negotiate hard (that's the hard bit of Brexit) and get us a fantastic trade deal, for a piddly sum of £350m per week. She will achieve this great feat by backing down on any real immigration or freedom of movement demands.

The govt will cheer the success and never mention Brexit again.

The NHS has a spare 350 million per week so that is fine.

scooterscot
31st October 2016, 20:54
This thread is a hilarious. No one here knows what Brexit means/is.

And by the time it is defined the UK will look like any other member of the EU but can not join in discussions about its future.

shaunbhoy
31st October 2016, 20:59
Happiness is a choice. What will you choose to be today?

I think I speak on behalf of most when I point out that your plumping for "Village Idiot" with such tedious regularity is wearing a bit thin scooter. :laugh

scooterscot
31st October 2016, 21:03
The day you start thinking is an awesome thought to be sure.

d000hg
31st October 2016, 21:11
The day you start thinking is an awesome thought to be sure.

I'm not sure. Thinking should be left to those who know how. A little thinking can be dangerous.

shaunbhoy
31st October 2016, 22:30
A little thinking can be dangerous.

And who better to comment on that phenomenon than you? :laugh

GB9
31st October 2016, 22:51
Socttish Independence a greater threat to Scotland's financial services than Brexit.

Have we done this one? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/30/scottish-independence-greater-threat-to-financial-services-indus/) Can't see it anywhere.

Basically, Scots leave the UK and English customers leave the Scottish banks. And in the meantime, Sturgeon is shafting her own economy by threatening another referendum.

Scooter would be worried, if he hadn't already abandoned his homeland and shifted to become an EU worker.

NotAllThere
1st November 2016, 06:48
well it would shut up the bremoaners if it were 66%It would make it far more certain that the result reflected the views of all eligible voters, not just those that got off their backsides. Of course the margin of the win wouldn't affect the consequences of Brexit one jot.


I wonder if Brexit would win again?I think it probably would, with a bigger margin. In 1997, in Winchester (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_by-election,_1997), the Tories were beaten by two votes and eventually won the right for a revote. The result was a 20000+ majority win for the Liberals. "The people" don't like their will being questioned.


Lets see apart from currency being devaluedwhich is already quite significant
,...some refugees from Calais who are well on their way to a free pensionNot an EU issue - rather a France/UK issue. But I applaud your smug mean-spiritedness
where is the economic Armageddon? No economic armageddon, rather the UK is currently less rich than it was (that's what the devalued currency means).

Post brexit (which you may have noticed hasn't happened yet) there a few alternatives.


The UK will remain poorer than it would have been for quite a while. Eventually the effects of Brexit will disappear in the chaotic noise of the world economy, but perhaps the long term result will be that the UK will be as economically significant to the world economy as Portugal is now.
Brexit will in some way result in an economic boom and Britain will emerge stronger than ever.
Same as 1, but it would have been worse if we'd stayed in
Same as 2, but it would have better if we'd stayed in.


If 2 doesn't happen, then Brexiters will claim that we're in scenario 3.
If 1 doesn't happen, then Bremainers will claim that we're in scenario 4.

Since we don't have a parallel world to see what would have happened, it's all speculation. What we do know is that right now Britain is not as rich as it was, and that this is probably a direct consequence of the referendum result.

NotAllThere
1st November 2016, 06:54
This thread is a hilarious. No one here knows what Brexit means/is.I looked it up in the dictionary

Brexit
noun
See Brexit

WTFH
1st November 2016, 07:40
Also:

Brexit
verb
See Brexit

BlasterBates
1st November 2016, 08:06
It's pretty clear the Nissan letter means the UK will end up half stuck in the EU, which is why Nige is getting all ruffled.

The most likely contents of the Nissan letter:

1) The UK will stay in the Customs Union
2) The car industry will have access to the single market.
3) There will be the free movement of labour.

Australia have already done bunk as they know where it's going.

:D

ClothCap
1st November 2016, 08:10
Brexit means brexit ie leaving the EU. Bremoaners can't process that little nugget so have come up with their own definition of it meaning "rerun the referendum". No wonder they are confused!

WTFH
1st November 2016, 08:14
Brexit means brexit ie leaving the EU. Bremoaners can't process that little nugget so have come up with their own definition of it meaning "rerun the referendum". No wonder they are confused!

Totally leaving it or partially leaving it? People are confused because some say it's a total break from all EU processes, related organisations, rules, etc. Others say that some of it is up for discussion.
Those that aren't confused don't understand the difference.

(Edited to make sure it was clear I was asking a question)

BlasterBates
1st November 2016, 08:14
We'll have to wait as to what Brexit actually means but it is probably downgrading membership of the EU to some sort observer associate with an agreement somewhat similar to Norway and Switzerland.

In the end anyone from the EU will be able to come to the UK if they have a job offer.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 08:31
This thread is a hilarious. No one here knows what Brexit means/is.

And by the time it is defined the UK will look like any other member of the EU but can not join in discussions about its future.


that's the beauty and the funniness of the situation.

I have an Italian colleague, he said the Italian media is raving about how post-Brexit Britain is flourishing, I said fer fek's sake we haven't even Brexited yet.

Milan.

original PM
1st November 2016, 08:39
I think what a lot of remainers are struggling with is the fact we have made a decision now we just need to finish off acting on it.

Its a bit like being an alcoholic - the first step on the road to recovery is admitting it.

Remoaners seem to think that a 5 day meth n whiskey binge will get rid of the shakes and aid recovery.

It may do the first but it won't do the second.

original PM
1st November 2016, 08:44
It's pretty clear the Nissan letter means the UK will end up half stuck in the EU, which is why Nige is getting all ruffled.

The most likely contents of the Nissan letter:

1) The UK will stay in the Customs Union
2) The car industry will have access to the single market.
3) There will be the free movement of labour.

Australia have already done bunk as they know where it's going.

:D

The thing is about Nissan and in general any area of the country where a large portion of the population is employed by a single large employer there is always a risk of that employer moving or the product becoming cold or nom viable.

While in the short to medium term we need it longer term we need to find an alternative.

NotAllThere
1st November 2016, 08:49
... nom viable.Becomes edible? :freaky:

WTFH
1st November 2016, 08:51
Becomes edible? :freaky:

I think he means that if the UK government have made promises to Nissan about post-Brexit relations with the EU, then he's going to have to eat his own words in the other thread.

NotAllThere
1st November 2016, 08:58
I think what a lot of remainers are struggling with is the fact we have made a decision now we just need to finish off acting on it.I think what a lot a wrexiters are struggling with is a basic comprehension of the question "What does Brexit mean?". "Brexit means Brexit" is a meaning-free statement.

Does Brexit mean
1. We cut all ties with the EU, close the borders to EU citizens, and negotiate trade agreements with other nations/trading blocks
2. We negotiate a settlement similar to the Swiss model
3. Something between these extremes?

It could be argued that 2 (which means retaining freedom of movement, services etc.) is not really leaving the EU.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 09:00
I think what a lot a wrexiters are struggling with is a basic comprehension of the question "What does Brexit mean?". "Brexit means Brexit" is a meaning-free statement.

Does Brexit mean
1. We cut all ties with the EU, close the borders to EU citizens, and negotiate trade agreements with other nations/trading blocks
2. We negotiate a settlement similar to the Swiss model
3. Something between these extremes?

It could be argued that 2 (which means retaining freedom of movement, services etc.) is not really leaving the EU.


agreed and it is so funny to watch

Yay yay, we're bexiting and we're going to wash our hands of them and oh, nothing actually changed but now we pay a fortune to be on the sidelines of the club

that's the point, even Brexit is not Brexit

Milan.

BlasterBates
1st November 2016, 09:03
agreed and it is so funny to watch

Yay yay, we're bexiting and we're going to wash our hands of them and oh, nothing actually changed but now we pay a fortune to be on the sidelines of the club

that's the point, even Brexit is not Brexit

Milan.

This is what was in Nissan's letter :D

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 09:06
Brexit would be a perfect candidate for a Monty Python sketch

Right, we're brexiting, we wash our hands of them

Oh, it's the same as it was before

Milan.

ClothCap
1st November 2016, 09:08
So have we got another offshore bremoaner here as well? Worse than bloody champagne socialists there are and twice as toxic.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 09:11
lol

just trying to help stop the sheep from walking off the cliff

Milan.

eek
1st November 2016, 09:15
The thing is about Nissan and in general any area of the country where a large portion of the population is employed by a single large employer there is always a risk of that employer moving or the product becoming cold or nom viable.

While in the short to medium term we need it longer term we need to find an alternative.

Sunderland would really be the only area impacted. The supply factories that are further afield supply a lot more companies than just Nissan.

Plus Cars are a red herring. If we want a deal with free trade in cars and car parts Germany will happily agree to it and the rest of europe can argue the point as they watch Skoda / Seat close a factory or 2 in Spain / Eastern Europe to reflect reduced demand for their cars.

The fact we end up with free trade in cars is going to be irrelevant in the negotiations. We will have free trade for goods the battle is free trade in services vs free movement of people. And to fix the latter its the UK that needs to change by making benefits dependent on residency and tax paid .

WTFH
1st November 2016, 09:22
So have we got another offshore bremoaner here as well? Worse than bloody champagne socialists there are and twice as toxic.

Nope, we've got people asking very basic simple questions, and then the only replies are name calling, because the brexiters haven't got an intelligent and coherent response.

ClothCap
1st November 2016, 09:29
Never heard a bremoaner resort to childish insults about intelligence.

WTFH
1st November 2016, 09:30
Never heard a bremoaner resort to childish insults about intelligence.

Is that your best response to my question?

eek
1st November 2016, 09:31
that's the beauty and the funniness of the situation.

I have an Italian colleague, he said the Italian media is raving about how post-Brexit Britain is flourishing, I said fer fek's sake we haven't even Brexited yet.

Milan.

Italy's economy from 1970 to 2000 was based on slow depreciation of their currency to cope with an inflexible labour market.

If you compare GDP per head (in $) from 1999 to 2015 for Germany, UK and Italy the Italian GDP has increased by 36%. The UK and Germany has increased by over 54%. Italy's inability to adjust their currency to reflect market changes has resulted in their growth being only 2/3rds of Germany's and the same is true (if not worse) for most of the rest of the Eurozone. So you can see why some in Italy will be looking at us with envy.

stek
1st November 2016, 09:33
http://newsthump.com/2016/10/30/clocks-going-back-means-article-50-delayed-by-another-full-hour-moan-brexiters/

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 09:44
so, recap,

are we concluding that even Brexit is not Brexit ?

Would a Brexiter please explain for the rest of us thickos what Brexit actually means.

And thus, will Britain actually execute the Brexiter's vision of Brexit ? Hence the poll.

TTFN

Milan.

NotAllThere
1st November 2016, 09:50
agreed and it is so funny to watch


So have we got another offshore bremoaner...A bremoaner is someone who moans about Brexit. There's not really much of that going on here. There is considerable amount of laughing at dumb wrexiters, who not only have no sense of irony, they also don't know what irony means. (Or Brexit for that matter).

For the more serious of us, there are attempts at discussing the effects (so far) of Brexit, and what it will mean in the long term to the prosperity of our fair country. However, since the wrexiters are a fairly thick bunch, by and large, their only response is "*grunt* bremoaner *grunt*". Which for odd reasons they think settles the argument.

:popcorn:

ClothCap
1st November 2016, 09:54
Very intelligent response. Glad you were able to display your superior debating skills without resorting to childish insults.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 09:55
Lads look, keep focused,

would a Brexiter please explain for the rest of us thickos what Brexit actually means.

And thus, will Britain actually execute the Brexiter's vision of Brexit ? Hence the poll.

Milan in looking forward to learn something Mode.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 09:55
so, recap,

are we concluding that even Brexit is not Brexit ?

Would a Brexiter please explain for the rest of us thickos what Brexit actually means.

And thus, will Britain actually execute the Brexiter's vision of Brexit ? Hence the poll.

TTFN

Milan.

It means we control our borders and that our relationship with EU countries in terms of trade, H&S, compliance, recognition of International standards of education are up for grabs. It also means that we can force EU job seekers to pass language tests before being hired.

Oh I forgot. You will need a visa to travel to EU countries :happy

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 10:00
no argument about those items:

It means we control our borders and that our relationship with EU countries in terms of trade, H&S, compliance, recognition of International standards of education are up for grabs. It also means that we can force EU job seekers to pass language tests before being hired.


Why does implementing those mean you have to leave the EU ?

Here on the mainland most companies demand English B1 level from the European Language standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languag es

Why doesn't UK do the same ? Surely implementing that does not mean UK has to leave the EU ?


Most of the other items have the same such situation. Most of these items are not actually the EU's fault, most of these items are the British government's fault and who actually blame the EU because it's cheaper and easier than admitting their failures.

Try to go to Germany and claim a house and benefits, or Austria etc.

Ok, what else is on the Brexit vision list ?

Milan.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 10:10
no argument about those items:

It means we control our borders and that our relationship with EU countries in terms of trade, H&S, compliance, recognition of International standards of education are up for grabs. It also means that we can force EU job seekers to pass language tests before being hired.


Why does implementing those mean you have to leave the EU ?

Here on the mainland most companies demand English B1 level from the European Language standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languag es

Why doesn't UK do the same ? Surely implementing that does not mean UK has to leave the EU ?


Most of the other items have the same such situation. Most of these items are not actually the EU's fault, most of these items are the British government's fault and who actually blame the EU because it's cheaper and easier than admitting their failures.

Try to go to Germany and claim a house and benefits, or Austria etc.

Ok, what else is on the Brexit vision list ?

Milan.

It is discriminatory to force an EU job seeker to pass a language test in order to get a job.

Brexiters (like me) do not want to be subsumed and controlled by a superstate that is driven primarily to serve itself. To end it now is better than having to leave it in 10 years time.

jamesbrown
1st November 2016, 10:12
.

I think that analysis is broadly correct, although it's worth noting that we entered the referendum with historically high twin deficits and an overvalued currency by most standards, so some devaluation was warranted in the longer term. Had we voted remain, the currency would likely be a significant drag by now. The extent to which rebalancing might occur is difficult to predict, as with the current account deficit, but the devaluation is broadly supportive of both.

original PM
1st November 2016, 10:15
no argument about those items:

It means we control our borders and that our relationship with EU countries in terms of trade, H&S, compliance, recognition of International standards of education are up for grabs. It also means that we can force EU job seekers to pass language tests before being hired.


Why does implementing those mean you have to leave the EU ?

Here on the mainland most companies demand English B1 level from the European Language standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languag es

Why doesn't UK do the same ? Surely implementing that does not mean UK has to leave the EU ?


Most of the other items have the same such situation. Most of these items are not actually the EU's fault, most of these items are the British government's fault and who actually blame the EU because it's cheaper and easier than admitting their failures.

Try to go to Germany and claim a house and benefits, or Austria etc.

Ok, what else is on the Brexit vision list ?

Milan.

Ok I'll bite cos i got nothing better to do.

So

1) Free movement of labour, not free movement of people.
2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.
3) Zero interference from other countries on our policies

And just to stir things up - on 11th November it will be remembrance day - when we use the tagline
'Lest we forget' (https://diversityscholar4.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/lest-we-forget-what-does-it-all-mean/) lets us remember that what that means is let us not forget those who fought and died so we would not have our civil liberties dictated to us from a central European tyranny.

For those of you who voted remain - you did forget - you forgot because you valued your cheap latte over the broken skulls of our grandparents and you should hang your heads in shame.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 10:18
It is discriminatory to force an EU job seeker to pass a language test in order to get a job.

Brexiters (like me) do not want to be subsumed and controlled by a superstate that is driven primarily to serve itself. To end it now is better than having to leave it in 10 years time.


DA, I'll ignore the first item about the language test because that's how it is on the mainland, you wanna work in a big company you gotta have English B1 or higher. Why the UK doesn't do that, best you ask Mrs May.


2nd point, I am really Brexit curious, but before I join you on the Brexit bus, I just want to understand, at nuts and bolts level, what exactly does leaving mean ?

Please share you personal vision of Brexit, here let me help you, it could be like this...

Dodgy's Vision of Brexit and Post Brexit Britain...

Britain's independently negotiated trade deals with all foreign countries

Tighter borders

Everybody speaks English

School places for all children

Affordable housing

Higher Export driven economy

etc

see what I mean, what's the Brexiter's vision of post Brexit Britain ?

Thanks in advance,

Milan.

NotAllThere
1st November 2016, 10:19
...
Oh I forgot. You will need a visa to travel to EU countries :happyWhy? Didn't need one before joining the common market.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 10:20
Why? Didn't need one before joining the common market.
Don't take everything I say at face value

original PM
1st November 2016, 10:22
DA, I'll ignore the first item about the language test because that's how it is on the mainland, you wanna work in a big company you gotta have English B1 or higher. Why the UK doesn't do that, best you ask Mrs May.


2nd point, I am really Brexit curious, but before I join you on the Brexit bus, I just want to understand, at nuts and bolts level, what exactly does leaving mean ?

Please share you personal vision of Brexit, here let me help you, it could be like this...

Dodgy's Vision of Brexit and Post Brexit Britain...

Britain's independently negotiated trade deals with all foreign countries

Tighter borders

Everybody speaks English

School places for all children

Affordable housing

Higher Export driven economy

etc

see what I mean, what's the Brexiter's vision of post Brexit Britain ?

Thanks in advance,

Milan.

You try to nail down to many certainties.

What is the Brexiters vision of brexit?

A Uk which is not a part of the EU nor does it have to bow to pressure or rules from the EU central powers.

There pretty simple no?

WTFH
1st November 2016, 10:23
It is discriminatory to force an EU job seeker to pass a language test in order to get a job.


Are you being very careful in your wording in an effort to make a point, or are you unaware of the Immigration Act?

I suspect it is the first. "FORCING" someone to pass a test may be discriminatory , but it is perfectly legal to require someone to have good English skills to be able to work in certain roles...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-bill-part-7-language-requirements-for-public-sector-workers

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 10:25
DA, I'll ignore the first item about the language test because that's how it is on the mainland, you wanna work in a big company you gotta have English B1 or higher. Why the UK doesn't do that, best you ask Mrs May.


2nd point, I am really Brexit curious, but before I join you on the Brexit bus, I just want to understand, at nuts and bolts level, what exactly does leaving mean ?

Please share you personal vision of Brexit, here let me help you, it could be like this...

Dodgy's Vision of Brexit and Post Brexit Britain...

Britain's independently negotiated trade deals with all foreign countries

Tighter borders

Everybody speaks English

School places for all children

Affordable housing

Higher Export driven economy

etc

see what I mean, what's the Brexiter's vision of post Brexit Britain ?

Thanks in advance,

Milan.

Why do I need to have a vision for Brexit other than one that is laid out by the government of the day? I can see what you are trying to do (Unfortunately you are not clever enough to pull it off). You are trying to draw the Brexiteers into giving policy details which you can then try and unpick. In which case why don't you go first and show us the way with your vision of how the EU will unfold were we to remain in it? :laugh

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 10:26
Ok I'll bite cos i got nothing better to do.

So

1) Free movement of labour, not free movement of people.
2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.
3) Zero interference from other countries on our policies

And just to stir things up - on 11th November it will be remembrance day - when we use the tagline
'Lest we forget' (https://diversityscholar4.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/lest-we-forget-what-does-it-all-mean/) lets us remember that what that means is let us not forget those who fought and died so we would not have our civil liberties dictated to us from a central European tyranny.

For those of you who voted remain - you did forget - you forgot because you valued your cheap latte over the broken skulls of our grandparents and you should hang your heads in shame.



ok aside of the stiring, let's have a look at each item...

1) Free movement of labour, not free movement of people.

Without going into "refugees" (which isn't going to go away Brexit or not), this is implemented in Germany, Austria etc, try and go there and set up shop with no job and no intention to be economically active - so this isn't the EU's fault this is the UK government's fault

2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.

Are you sure you'll get better deals ?


3) Zero interference from other countries on our policies

What about the US, are you including them in this ?

Still don't see this one in the EU, can't remember the last time I heard another EU state blocking France, or Austria or Germany for doing what they wanted



So that's it, that's what Brexit means ?

All of this can be solved while being in the EU.


But if the point of the Brexiter is to stubbornly not be part of the EU, then ok it's an argument that will never end.

Milan.

shaunbhoy
1st November 2016, 10:27
2nd point, I am really Brexit curious, but before I join you on the Brexit bus, I just want to understand, at nuts and bolts level, what exactly does leaving mean ?



From the moment we trigger Article 50 there will be 2 years of negotiation, during which time just what "Brexit" will look like will be thrashed out. Unless someone has a crystal ball available, it is impossible at this stage to fully quantify just what the end result will be in its entirety.
Now I know that for many remainers, their little worlds fall apart if everything is not set down in stone for them to slavishly follow. However, for the majority of us, we are confident and comfortable that our vote to Leave will ultimately leave us better placed to face the future. That is the risk and decision that the country took.
DA and others have already pointed out many of the reasons why we took the decision we did. You will have plenty of time to catch up with things as they unfold over the coming years, but do try and ease back from the incessant fretting. You are like a bunch of toddlers constantly whining "Are we there yet??"

:eyes

WTFH
1st November 2016, 10:30
And just to stir things up - on 11th November it will be remembrance day - when we use the tagline
'Lest we forget' (https://diversityscholar4.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/lest-we-forget-what-does-it-all-mean/) lets us remember that what that means is let us not forget those who fought and died so we would not have our civil liberties dictated to us from a central European tyranny.

For those of you who voted remain - you did forget - you forgot because you valued your cheap latte over the broken skulls of our grandparents and you should hang your heads in shame.

Wow, you are DEEPLY OFFENSIVE.
Those who fought in the Great War, the Second World War and the other wars/battles which are remembered on 11/11, they fought to keep us free. Free from racism. Free from religious intolerance. Free from hatred. Free from living in fear.

If you think that everyone who voted to remain disagrees with that, you are so wildly wrong.


You are disgusting.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 10:30
Are you being very careful in your wording in an effort to make a point, or are you unaware of the Immigration Act?

I suspect it is the first. "FORCING" someone to pass a test may be discriminatory , but it is perfectly legal to require someone to have good English skills to be able to work in certain roles...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-bill-part-7-language-requirements-for-public-sector-workers

Within EU law it is discriminatory to make an EU worker pass a test such as IELTS in order to qualify for a job. You are right it is perfectly legal to require someone to speak whatever standard of English is required. What this legislation does is that it forces employers to take each applicant on merit and means they are more likely to interview them. To make them pass a test or attain some sort of official "level" means that people can be arbitrarily discounted.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 10:32
Why do I need to have a vision for Brexit other than one that is laid out by the government of the day? I can see what you are trying to do (Unfortunately you are not clever enough to pull it off). You are trying to draw the Brexiteers into giving policy details which you can then try and unpick. In which case why don't you go first and show us the way with your vision of how the EU will unfold were we to remain in it? :laugh


you got me there DA, I am guilty of, "You are trying to draw the Brexiteers into giving policy details which you can then try and unpick",

attention all Brexiters, the remainers are trying to draw us in and get our policy details (which we don't have but they don't know that)

looks like a scene from Dad's Army - don't tell 'em your name Pike


Ok your fair question,

"In which case why don't you go first and show us the way with your vision of how the EU will unfold were we to remain in it?"

the EU is not going to unfold, the EU is a project, and actually I find the whole Brexit saga very positive because yes, the EU does need reforming and yes the EU is over doing things in certain directions, and thanks to the UK escalating it is forcing the EU to look inwardly and think about what can be improved, so no arguments there.



Milan.

d000hg
1st November 2016, 10:33
Totally leaving it or partially leaving it? People are confused because some say it's a total break from all EU processes, related organisations, rules, etc. Others say that some of it is up for discussion.
Those that aren't confused don't understand the difference.

(Edited to make sure it was clear I was asking a question)

Brexit means when the kiddies learn the list of EU member nations at school, UK won't be on the list.

WTFH
1st November 2016, 10:38
Within EU law it is discriminatory to make an EU worker pass a test such as IELTS in order to qualify for a job. You are right it is perfectly legal to require someone to speak whatever standard of English is required. What this legislation does is that it forces employers to take each applicant on merit and means they are more likely to interview them. To make them pass a test or attain some sort of official "level" means that people can be arbitrarily discounted.

There are many Brits who would struggle to pass an English test - not because English isn't their first language, but because text speak/poor grammar.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 10:40
Wow, you are DEEPLY OFFENSIVE.
Those who fought in the Great War, the Second World War and the other wars/battles which are remembered on 11/11, they fought to keep us free. Free from racism. Free from religious intolerance. Free from hatred. Free from living in fear.

If you think that everyone who voted to remain disagrees with that, you are so wildly wrong.


You are disgusting.

Wow "DEEPLY OFFENSIVE" (why???). in capital letters too!!! How dare anyone mention the war!! Do you really think racism, religious intolerance were at the front of people's minds when Britain went to war? Are you really such an idiot that you have no sense of context? We fought 2 world wars in order to protect ourselves from tyranny or control from other European countries not because of politically correct virtues that are more relevant to todays mature democracies

Remainers do not necessarily disagree with this but they clearly fail to have learnt the lessons from history.

Chuck
1st November 2016, 10:41
the EU is not going to unfold, the EU is a project, and actually I find the whole Brexit saga very positive because yes, the EU does need reforming and yes the EU is over doing things in certain directions, and thanks to the UK escalating it is forcing the EU to look inwardly and think about what can be improved, so no arguments there.
.

I think the problem is that that is exactly what the EU is not doing. There is still no sense that the EU politicians think any sort of reform is required. They see us as a problem, perhaps with some justification, as we do not want to slavishly follow their club rules.

I think if anyone should fear Brexit, it is the other EU countries. We will survive and prosper on our own, whatever the result of the negotiations, of that I have no doubt whatsoever. There is a whole world out there to build trading links with.

The pain will come from politicians who want to punish us, to make a point, rather than to negotiate what is best for everybody. EU citizens and EU companies will be collateral damage as your negotiators try to hurt us.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 10:43
oh no, :ohwell we're going to debate modern history now for the next few hours, why the wars started, who fought who and why.

War historians, can you please start a new thread and debate the history of the first and second wars peacefully in your own thread.

Ta,

Milan.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 10:46
I think the problem is that that is exactly what the EU is not doing. There is still no sense that the EU politicians think any sort of reform is required. They see us as a problem, perhaps with some justification, as we do not want to slavishly follow their club rules.

I think if anyone should fear Brexit, it is the other EU countries. We will survive and prosper on our own, whatever the result of the negotiations, of that I have no doubt whatsoever. There is a whole world out there to build trading links with.

The pain will come from politicians who want to punish us, to make a point, rather than to negotiate what is best for everybody. EU citizens and EU companies will be collateral damage as your negotiators try to hurt us.


thank you Chuck (dejavu to Cilla Black there)

and this is precisely why I think an executed and completed Brexit is too hard to call in terms of placing a wager, because all it takes, and the floor is open, is for some reforms in the EU and voila the party continues

This show is not over and for sure, it's going to a be a long drawn out soap opera.

Milan.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 10:46
There are many Brits who would struggle to pass an English test - not because English isn't their first language, but because text speak/poor grammar.

That is another point

NotAllThere
1st November 2016, 10:50
Brexit logic. The EU is a tyranny. We fought two world wars to be free of tyranny. We must leave the EU.

I've yet to see the first point coherently demonstrated.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 10:50
thank you Chuck (dejavu to Cilla Black there)

and this is precisely why I think an executed and completed Brexit is too hard to call in terms of placing a wager, because all it takes, and the floor is open, is for some reforms in the EU and voila the party continues

This show is not over and for sure, it's going to a be a long drawn out soap opera.

Milan.

In other words you haven't got a f**king clue

Try typing "an idiots guide to Brexit" into Google and come back when you think you know something :laugh

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 10:51
In other words you haven't got a f**king clue

Try typing "an idiots guide to Brexit" into Google and come back when you think you know something :laugh


you lost me there DA.

Go and have a cup of tea and come back and tell us again what you want to say.

Milan.

vetran
1st November 2016, 10:52
It would make it far more certain that the result reflected the views of all eligible voters, not just those that got off their backsides. Of course the margin of the win wouldn't affect the consequences of Brexit one jot.


oh I don't know if the chattering classes got on board and the Government unified then I suspect it would be very good for our future. Glad you concede brexiters were more willing to vote for our countries future! I suppose all the bremoaners weren't eligible because they lived abroad?





which is already quite significantNot an EU issue - rather a France/UK issue. But I applaud your smug mean-spiritedness


If the EU did not permit free movement and dealt with the asylum seekers in the first country they crossed (which might well happen if they had border controls) then a waiting room of economic migrants wanting to cross illegally into the UK would not be permitted by the French. It is most definitely an EU problem but of course Bremoaners will deny it.

I admire your generosity with other people's money you appear to be supplying little from your comfortable Swiss home. Have you ever thought of singing, treading the boards or joining the labour party? you would fit right in! You can always move to a tax haven to complete the hypocrisy.

I assume you believe people who have paid massive sums to traverse Europe for economic migration are entitled to enter the UK and undercut / enslave others? I would much prefer to fix the problem at source.

Do tell me if a chap (and they are mainly chaps) coming from a regime so corrupt and unpleasant western nations feel the need to invade has a relative fortune such as £10,000 to pay to cross Europe illegally what sort of person do you think he or his family are likely to be?

The vast majority of people in the world live on a dollar a day and have poor school & health prospects are you going to open your basement for all of them?

We need to go to Africa, India etc and provide them education & peace so they can develop their Infrastructure & healthcare. Obviously we can't do that as it would be attacked as imperialist so we stood back & China bought everything.



Post brexit (which you may have noticed hasn't happened yet) there a few alternatives.
Some rambling Tulip masquerading as economic analysis
Since we don't have a parallel world to see what would have happened, it's all speculation. What we do know is that right now Britain is not as rich as it was, and that this is probably a direct consequence of the UNCERTAINTY CAUSED BY THE referendum result.

Indeed it is speculation we don't need to worry if we understand history and the subtle signals from the other participants that is frequently enough to satisfy people.

1. Large pan European or world Empires always fall, frequently with massive bloodshed. Greeks,Romans,Spanish,French & British.
2. Federations normally need an authoritarian government to bind them - Russia.
3. Most of Europe has tried to invade & rule most of the rest. Never ends well.
4. The most effective cross border organisations depend on mutual cooperation and mostly equal billing. NATO.
5. Organisations that people are moved into without their consent are frequently bad. We were told it was a trading union it is in reality a political union.
6. Organizations that want to punish you for leaving are frequently bad.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 10:54
Meanwhile, OriginalPM has been generous enough to share the Brexiter's vision:

1) Free movement of labour, not free movement of people.
2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.
3) Zero interference from other countries on our policies


So now we know what the vision is, let's see how it plays out in practice and what the implications will be and of course, whether it will actually happen and of course whether the pudding will actually look and taste as it was envisioned.

Milan.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 10:54
Brexit logic. The EU is a tyranny. We fought two world wars to be free of tyranny. We must leave the EU.

I've yet to see the first point coherently demonstrated.

Like all Tyrannies the EU's main reaction to Brexit is to protect itself. If you take a look at all groups (in business or politics) in history they have a desire to grow in power, wealth and influence. The only things that hold them in check are markets and democracy. The EU may seem relatively harmless now but Brexit has shown just how self centered they are. There is little evidence either of them changing.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 10:58
,...some refugees from Calais who are well on their way to a free pension
Not an EU issue - rather a France/UK issue. But I applaud your smug mean-spiritedness

What is the relevance of "smug mean spiritedness" ?

WTFH
1st November 2016, 10:59
Wow "DEEPLY OFFENSIVE" (why???). in capital letters too!!! How dare anyone mention the war!! Do you really think racism, religious intolerance were at the front of people's minds when Britain went to war? Are you really such an idiot that you have no sense of context? We fought 2 world wars in order to protect ourselves from tyranny or control from other European countries not because of politically correct virtues that are more relevant to todays mature democracies

Remainers do not necessarily disagree with this but they clearly fail to have learnt the lessons from history.

The offensive bit was the concept in his post that everyone who did not vote for Brexit did not consider the deaths of hundreds of thousands, who gave their lives to protect our freedom - that their deaths were of any value whatsoever.

That is deeply offensive.

As for the "politically correct virtues", perhaps the Daily Mail would like to re-run its headlines from the 1930s. Was it "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" they said when they were hoping the UK would be overrun by racist & religious hatred spewing forth from Germany?

vetran
1st November 2016, 11:00
Why? Didn't need one before joining the common market.

that was the bremoaners greatest card, all the youngsters said I voted remain so I could travel & work in Europe. I pointed out that it wasn't unknown for that to happen before the EU or even the world war.

d000hg
1st November 2016, 11:02
Brexit logic. The EU is a tyranny. We fought two world wars to be free of tyranny. We must leave the EU.

I've yet to see the first point coherently demonstrated.Didn't we fight two world wars to protect other countries from tyranny? By that logic we should be encouraging (i as forceful a way as is needed) other nations to leave the EU too ;)

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 11:04
The offensive bit was the concept in his post that everyone who did not vote for Brexit did not consider the deaths of hundreds of thousands, who gave their lives to protect our freedom - that their deaths were of any value whatsoever.

That is deeply offensive.

As for the "politically correct virtues", perhaps the Daily Mail would like to re-run its headlines from the 1930s. Was it "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" they said when they were hoping the UK would be overrun by racist & religious hatred spewing forth from Germany?

Who says Remainers did consider the deaths of hundreds of thousands of British and allied soldiers? In fact I would add that probably many Brexiters didn't consider the casualties of the two wars as part of their decision. I did because I believe in the importance and fragility of democracy as I am sure many others did. Probably some remainers also did but my view is that these people assume that democracy is something that will happen anyway even if we devolve power to the unelected institution of the EU.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 11:07
Didn't we fight two world wars to protect other countries from tyranny? By that logic we should be encouraging (i as forceful a way as is needed) other nations to leave the EU too ;)

No we fought them to protect ourselves. The geopolitics (something that is clearly beyond your scope of understanding) may have been that by protecting other countries from tyrannies was part of the program of protecting Britain. After all Hitler did not want to fight Britain and Britain could have stayed out of the war. Ultimately a Europe controlled by the Nazis would have threatened Britain in the future.

vetran
1st November 2016, 11:09
lol

just trying to help stop the sheep from walking off the cliff

Milan.

I thought Brillo taught you the trick, make sure their back legs are in your wellies!

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 11:11
just trying to help stop the sheep from walking off the cliff

Milan.

That is just an empty cliche. Go on Milan we have done our bit to explain why we should have Brexit now let us hear some coherent arguments from you as to why we should remain. :laugh

WTFH
1st November 2016, 11:13
Who says Remainers did consider the deaths of hundreds of thousands of British and allied soldiers?


And just to stir things up - on 11th November it will be remembrance day - when we use the tagline
'Lest we forget' (https://diversityscholar4.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/lest-we-forget-what-does-it-all-mean/) lets us remember that what that means is let us not forget those who fought and died so we would not have our civil liberties dictated to us from a central European tyranny.

For those of you who voted remain - you did forget - you forgot because you valued your cheap latte over the broken skulls of our grandparents and you should hang your heads in shame.

Original PM said that those who voted to remain have forgotten and that we "value cheap latte over the broken skulls of our grandparents".

original PM
1st November 2016, 11:18
ok aside of the stiring, let's have a look at each item.../snip


2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.

Are you sure you'll get better deals ?

.snip



Well why would we not as surely a single country will be more flexible in what it can offer in trade negotiations.

Yes I agree we will loose some of what you could call the economies of scale we have when within the EU.

But maybe the reduction in bureaucracy and therefore increased speed to market of any trade deals may offset that.

But then maybe saving a few dollars on some consumer goods was not in the forefront of my mind when I was voting.

It's interesting how people want you to be honest right up to the point where you are honest.

original PM
1st November 2016, 11:22
Original PM said that those who voted to remain have forgotten and that we "value cheap latte over the broken skulls of our grandparents".

But that is clearly an over exaggerated metaphor to stress the point using words which evoke strong emotions.

It was not meant to cause offence more to make people challenge themselves and their ideals.

OwlHoot
1st November 2016, 11:22
A bremoaner is someone who moans about Brexit. There's not really much of that going on here. There is considerable amount of laughing at dumb wrexiters, who not only have no sense of irony, they also don't know what irony means. (Or Brexit for that matter).

For the more serious of us, there are attempts at discussing the effects (so far) of Brexit, and what it will mean in the long term to the prosperity of our fair country. However, since the wrexiters are a fairly thick bunch, by and large, their only response is "*grunt* bremoaner *grunt*". Which for odd reasons they think settles the argument.

:popcorn:

You kindly explained what a bremoaner is. But for the benefit of us thick Brexiters could you also define Wrexiter?

Could it be short for "wrong exiter"? Or are there exceptionally large numbers of Brexiters in Wroxeter or Exeter?

It's all very confusing.

WTFH
1st November 2016, 11:25
But that is clearly an over exaggerated metaphor to stress the point using words which evoke strong emotions.

It was not meant to cause offence more to make people challenge themselves and their ideals.

And the bit about "we did forget" and we should "hang our heads in shame"?
Were they exaggerated metaphors, not meant to cause offence?

BlasterBates
1st November 2016, 11:36
Ok I'll bite cos i got nothing better to do.

So

1) Free movement of labour, not free movement of people.
2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.
3) Zero interference from other countries on our policies

And just to stir things up - on 11th November it will be remembrance day - when we use the tagline
'Lest we forget' (https://diversityscholar4.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/lest-we-forget-what-does-it-all-mean/) lets us remember that what that means is let us not forget those who fought and died so we would not have our civil liberties dictated to us from a central European tyranny.

For those of you who voted remain - you did forget - you forgot because you valued your cheap latte over the broken skulls of our grandparents and you should hang your heads in shame.

oh look....


The structure of the United States of Europe will be such as to make the material strength of a single State less important. Small nations will count as much as large ones and gain their honour by a contribution to the common cause. The ancient States and principalities of Germany, freely joined for mutual convenience in a federal system, might take their individual places among the United States of Europe.

ooooh .........who said that ?

booo.....

The speech of someone who should hang his head in shame (http://www.cfr.org/europe/churchills-united-states-europe-speech-zurich/p32536)

:D

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 11:43
2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.

I'm not sure he gets the other member states only negotiate as a single entity.

vetran
1st November 2016, 11:46
As for the "politically correct virtues", perhaps the Daily Mail would like to re-run its headlines from the 1930s. Was it "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" they said when they were hoping the UK would be overrun by racist & religious hatred spewing forth from Germany?

Oh dear that old chestnut again, even the Granuiad thinks you are very stupid on that one.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley


I assume any news outlet that had a proprietor who admired communism will be derided by you for the next century? They mostly make Hitler look like an amateur.

I suppose your use of IBM gear or any drugs/products from IG Farben' bastard children mean you are even more culpable?

It was one man who controlled 2 newspapers supporting a British fascist movement which was espousing isolationism, positive eugenics & clean living in the wake of a Global recession, we have seen plenty of bias from the BBC supporting radical Islam leaders and we own that I fail to see much difference in the Idealogies of Hitler & Islamic Nutters such as ISIS.

Don't get me started on Murdoch.

Many saw Enoch Powell as a deeply honorable man and a visionary, Moseley was considered similar. The whole of Germany was taken in by Hitler much of the UK. Racism was normal and yet we judge & form opinions based on today's much better standards.

How many Che Guevara & Nelson Mandela T shirts have you seen? Both were actually confirmed terrorists with the blood of innocents on their hands do you mock any paper that has ever printed support of Mandela? Or the IRA etc?

Moseley was obviously a complete nutter I mean he was a Conservative & Labour MP enough to bar anyone from political life. Working with that renowned fascist Ramsay McDonald should be enough to offend anyone.


Oswald Mosley was the youngest elected Conservative MP before crossing the floor in 1922, joining first Labour and, shortly afterwards, the Independent Labour Party. He became a minister in Ramsay MacDonald's Labour government, advising on rising unemployment.[citation needed]

In 1930, Mosley issued his 'Mosley Memorandum', which fused protectionism with a proto-Keynesian programme of policies designed to tackle the unemployment problem, and he resigned from the Labour party soon after, in early 1931, when the plans were rejected. He immediately formed the New Party, with policies based on his memorandum. Despite winning 16% of the vote at a by-election in Ashton-under-Lyne in early 1931, however, the party failed to achieve any other electoral success.[citation needed]

During 1931, the New Party became increasingly influenced by Fascism.[1] The next year, after a January 1932 visit to Benito Mussolini in Italy, Mosley's own conversion to fascism was confirmed. He wound up the New Party in April, but preserved its youth movement, which would form the core of the BUF, intact. He spent the summer that year writing a fascist programme, The Greater Britain, and this formed the basis of policy of the BUF, which was launched in October 1932.[1]



Interestingly enough just listening to Brown Sugar by the stones. Maybe you should picket their concerts?

WTFH
1st November 2016, 11:48
Veteran, are you saying that you agree with the rest of original PM's post about how anyone who voted remain should hang their head in shame because they are dishonouring the war dead?

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 11:49
that was the bremoaners greatest card, all the youngsters said I voted remain so I could travel & work in Europe. I pointed out that it wasn't unknown for that to happen before the EU or even the world war.

There's a world of difference in 'having the right to work there' and 'having to apply for the right to work there'.

As a UK expat working living in Germany, working with clients in Germany, Austria, and occasionally the Netherlands I only have to turn up at an interview and begin work. Latterly I've American friends marvelling at the ease in which I'm able to do this without a visa application, a work-permit or being fluent in the local language.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 12:03
That is just an empty cliche. Go on Milan we have done our bit to explain why we should have Brexit now let us hear some coherent arguments from you as to why we should remain. :laugh

DA, I'm not sure if you've done your bit, it took seven pages of discussion to get to the Brexiter's vision..

1) Free movement of labour, not free movement of people.
2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.
3) Zero interference from other countries on our policies



Why should we remain ?

Ok, let's get back to basics, why was the EU Project started ?

To bring the countries together and avoid a repeat of WW1 and WW2 in Europe.

Part of that involves social balance, therefore, distributing wealth from the richer countries to the poorer countries.

Get rid of inequality, less chance of war ? Think, remember, where did WW2 come from, what was Hitler's starting point, it was the financial crash in Germany, and the bitterness of German people seeing their wealth eroded compared to their neighbouring countries the DMark crashed against the Czech Korona and French Frank.

If you're not aware of this part of history and the bitterness it created then read these two (either from Amazon or as the pdf version):

https://www.amazon.com/Dying-Money-Jens-Parsson/dp/1457502666

http://www.libertarianismo.org/livros/jopdom.pdf


https://www.amazon.com/When-Money-Dies-Devaluation-Hyperinflation/dp/1586489941

http://thirdparadigm.org/doc/45060880-When-Money-Dies.pdf


Read about the bitterness of not being able to buy food, but seeing their neighboring countries living like kings.

Then you will understand the point of the single currency.


So, ok, that's a little history lesson, that is why the EU exists, the founding principles.

As I already agreed, during the journey so far, like any organization it has got a little fat and put it's fingers where it shouldn't and as I said, and I repeat for the hard of hearing, the EU is not going to unfold, the EU is a project, and actually I find the whole Brexit saga very positive because yes, the EU does need reforming and yes the EU is over doing things in certain directions, and thanks to the UK escalating it is forcing the EU to look inwardly and think about what can be improved, so no arguments there.


That's it, there's no vision, only sense.

Milan.

vetran
1st November 2016, 12:05
Veteran, are you saying that you agree with the rest of original PM's post about how anyone who voted remain should hang their head in shame because they are dishonouring the war dead?

No I know in my heart they are wrong to vote remain but I don't doubt they are mainly honourable people who love the UK, they just believe in the EU and don't suspect it of duplicity.

That was why I didn't comment on it as it was as you say offensive. People fought for our freedom, we still have that freedom and have had a democratic vote because of their sacrifice lets not sully their bravery with a squabble.

vetran
1st November 2016, 12:14
There's a world of difference in 'having the right to work there' and 'having to apply for the right to work there'.

As a UK expat working living in Germany, working with clients in Germany, Austria, and occasionally the Netherlands I only have to turn up at an interview and begin work. Latterly I've American friends marvelling at the ease in which I'm able to do this without a visa application, a work-permit or being fluent in the local language.

And your convenience is more important than the real economic damage the accession countries are doing by undercutting local labour?

If the visa was points based how likely is it you would be refused? I suspect very unlikely and it would probably in these modern days of computers be very fast to obtain.

You choose to work as a contractor they might prefer you as an employee but they are very likely to still want you.

I My brother worked professionally all over the world and had few challenges getting permission, friends have gone to grow flora in Texas, build phone systems in Saudi etc it is all possible.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 12:17
And your convenience is more important than the real economic damage the accession countries are doing by undercutting local labour?

.

they won't be undercutting local labour for long, the economic miracle will be Britain's post Brexit currency devaluation when UK workers become cheaper than the accession country's workers

Milan.

vetran
1st November 2016, 12:22
they won't be undercutting local labour for long, the economic miracle will be Britain's post Brexit currency devaluation when UK workers become cheaper than the accession country's workers

Milan.

hardly all the hard working ones seem to be here.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 12:25
hardly all the hard working ones seem to be here.


I can fix that for you,

faster than you can say Brexit the foreigners will be gone once the pound devalues.

They ain't stooopid and they ain't gonna hang around once the pound is worth cents on the euro (or whatever their home currency is)

Milan.

stek
1st November 2016, 12:27
Just had a thought/brain fart, after Brexit does the Dublin Agreement apply to UK, because if not asylum seekers and refugees can just roll up to UK and the UK will have to accept them.

Antman
1st November 2016, 12:27
Sunderland would really be the only area impacted. The supply factories that are further afield supply a lot more companies than just Nissan.

Plus Cars are a red herring. If we want a deal with free trade in cars and car parts Germany will happily agree to it and the rest of europe can argue the point as they watch Skoda / Seat close a factory or 2 in Spain / Eastern Europe to reflect reduced demand for their cars.

The fact we end up with free trade in cars is going to be irrelevant in the negotiations. We will have free trade for goods the battle is free trade in services vs free movement of people. And to fix the latter its the UK that needs to change by making benefits dependent on residency and tax paid .

I was on the rock and roll once in Spain and could only claim because I'd worked previously (and it was limited by how much I'd contributed, after a certain time the payments went to zero).

BrilloPad
1st November 2016, 12:29
No I know in my heart they are wrong to vote remain but I don't doubt they are mainly honourable people who love the UK, they just believe in the EU and don't suspect it of duplicity.


Most Brexiters voted out of a mistrust of the UK Government. A protest vote against UK inequality.

A pity they cannot vote for a party other than Labour or Tory.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 12:30
DA, I'm not sure if you've done your bit, it took seven pages of discussion to get to the Brexiter's vision..

1) Free movement of labour, not free movement of people.
2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.
3) Zero interference from other countries on our policies



Why should we remain ?

Ok, let's get back to basics, why was the EU Project started ?

To bring the countries together and avoid a repeat of WW1 and WW2 in Europe.

Part of that involves social balance, therefore, disturbing wealth from the richer countries to the poorer countries.

Get rid of inequality, less chance of war ? Think, remember, where did WW2 come from, what was Hitler's starting point, it was the financial crash in Germany, and the bitterness of German people seeing their wealth eroded compared to their neighbouring countries the DMark crashed against the Czech Korona and French Frank.

If you're not aware of this part of history and the bitterness it created then read these two (either from Amazon or as the pdf version):

https://www.amazon.com/Dying-Money-Jens-Parsson/dp/1457502666

http://www.libertarianismo.org/livros/jopdom.pdf


https://www.amazon.com/When-Money-Dies-Devaluation-Hyperinflation/dp/1586489941

http://thirdparadigm.org/doc/45060880-When-Money-Dies.pdf


Read about the bitterness of not being able to buy food, but seeing their neighboring countries living like kings.

Then you will understand the point of the single currency.


So, ok, that's a little history lesson, that is why the EU exists, the founding principles.

As I already agreed, during the journey so far, like any organization it has got a little fat and put it's fingers where it shouldn't and as I said, and I repeat for the hard of hearing, the EU is not going to unfold, the EU is a project, and actually I find the whole Brexit saga very positive because yes, the EU does need reforming and yes the EU is over doing things in certain directions, and thanks to the UK escalating it is forcing the EU to look inwardly and think about what can be improved, so no arguments there.


That's it, there's no vision, only sense.

Milan.

The premise that the EU will achieve anything that would not otherwise be achieved is laughable. The Euro itself is already creating poverty and unemployment with no sign whatsoever of enabling mediterranean countries to ever win prosperity. If you think it is ever going to reform again that is laughable. even with its 2nd largest economy leaving it all the bureaucrats and institutions remain intact. Would this happen in business?

let me give you examples of what happens when countries are plunged into poverty. have you read any of these:?

https://www.amazon.com/Dying-Money-Jens-Parsson/dp/1457502666

http://www.libertarianismo.org/livros/jopdom.pdf


https://www.amazon.com/When-Money-Dies-Devaluation-Hyperinflation/dp/1586489941

http://thirdparadigm.org/doc/45060880-When-Money-Dies.pdf

I will accept the war argument in that the EU was conceived to make the economies of the EU interdependent upon each other. Right now if the Euro economies continue to decline (interestingly the EU countries without the EU are enjoying considerably better growth rates than Euro countries) then the war argument itself will become null and void as people start taking to the streets and rioting.

There is no vision from you just an assembly of cliches and weasel words

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 12:31
Most Brexiters voted out of a mistrust of the UK Government. A protest vote against UK inequality.

A pity they cannot vote for a party other than Labour or Tory.

The traditional working class labour supporters most certainly did

tomtomagain
1st November 2016, 12:33
They ain't stooopid and they ain't gonna hang around once the pound is worth cents on the euro (or whatever their home currency is)

Milan.

So where are they going to go? Germany, maybe. France - no jobs, Spain - no jobs, Italy - no jobs, Poland - no jobs, Romanian - no jobs.

They'll be sticking in the UK until the EU can actually start creating employment.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 12:34
And your convenience is more important than the real economic damage the accession countries are doing by undercutting local labour?

If the visa was points based how likely is it you would be refused? I suspect very unlikely and it would probably in these modern days of computers be very fast to obtain.

It is not a question of whether I'll be refused. That's a non-issue. Time and time again visa applications fall through (from those coming outside of the EU) because another resource has been found in the interim. The point is clients do not wait! Brexiters just don't get it. I can move from job to job in hours rather than weeks or months.

Local labour is not being undercut. Business just don't want to pay more. Blame the employers!! And customers in the supermarkets will be the first to complain at the increased cost of fresh produce plucked from their fields a year or two down the line when that local labour finally gets off their backside to do the work.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 12:38
they won't be undercutting local labour for long, the economic miracle will be Britain's post Brexit currency devaluation when UK workers become cheaper than the accession country's workers

Milan.

If you think Eastern Europeans are going to return home just because the sterling has fallen then you have no clue. What are they going to return home to? Nurses and medical staff earn 700 Euros a month for 300 hours of work. Builders earn about £3.00 per hour if they can find any work at all. IT developers are not leaving their countries of origin anyway and EU graduates working in retail/hospitality jobs in the UK have no jobs to return home to anyway.

As far as currency devaluation is concerned we need this to improve our balance of payments

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 12:39
It is not a question of whether I'll be refused. That's a non-issue. Time and time again visa applications fall through (from those coming outside of the EU) because another resource has been found in the interim. The point is clients do not wait! Brexiters just don't get it. I can move from job to job in hours rather than weeks or months.

Local labour is not being undercut. Business just don't want to pay more. Blame the employers!! And customers in the supermarkets will be the first to complain at the increased cost of fresh produce plucked from their fields a year or two down the line when that local labour finally gets off their backside to do the work.

You don't have a job so I am not sure you are in any position to make comments like this :laugh

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 12:39
https://www.amazon.com/Dying-Money-Jens-Parsson/dp/1457502666

http://www.libertarianismo.org/livros/jopdom.pdf


https://www.amazon.com/When-Money-Dies-Devaluation-Hyperinflation/dp/1586489941

http://thirdparadigm.org/doc/45060880-When-Money-Dies.pdf


The books would be a good read for anyone in the UK right now. A country operating a growing deficit. Engaging in endless QE. Help to buy programs. Unaffordable housing w.r.t earnings. A devaluating currency.

vetran
1st November 2016, 12:39
Just had a thought/brain fart, after Brexit does the Dublin Agreement apply to UK, because if not asylum seekers and refugees can just roll up to UK and the UK will have to accept them.

well as all the other things we complain about are nothing to do with the EU according to the Bremaintards (apart from being either requirements of EU membership or clearly caused by EU policies) then I suspect we will not be covered by it. The Dublin convention does make us less able to refuse asylum seekers than before (the child refugees have family here and under EU law even if they are bogus they get to come in).

I suppose we will drop back to the Schengnen or previous agreements.


Before the Dublin Convention came into force, most EU member states used another piece of
European law, called the Schengen Agreement, to decide whether or not they would accept and
examine someone’s asylum application. In many cases, countries had readmission agreements with
each other, which meant asylum seekers could be sent back to another European state if they had
passed through it on their way to the country in which they had claimed asylum.

In the UK, this meant that any asylum seeker who passed through a ‘safe’ third country before
reaching the UK was likely to be returned there and was expected to apply for asylum in that country
(except where the asylum seeker had close family members already in the UK). In these
circumstances, the UK government would refuse to even look at the substance of someone’s asylum
claim, as it argued it had no obligation to under the terms of the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees.



https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/assets/0001/5851/dublin_aug2002.pdf


Maybe the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees is a good source? But it looks like fewer rights not more.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 12:41
You don't have a job so I am not sure you are in any position to make comments like this :laugh

50% of your earnings pay for taxes (hidden and otherwise). Why would you want a job?

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 12:44
Socttish Independence a greater threat to Scotland's financial services than Brexit.

Have we done this one? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/30/scottish-independence-greater-threat-to-financial-services-indus/) Can't see it anywhere.

Basically, Scots leave the UK and English customers leave the Scottish banks. And in the meantime, Sturgeon is shafting her own economy by threatening another referendum.

Scooter would be worried, if he hadn't already abandoned his homeland and shifted to become an EU worker.


I have clients in Scotland. I also employ folks in Scotland from time to time. Becoming cheaper by the minute :D

vetran
1st November 2016, 12:48
I can fix that for you,

faster than you can say Brexit the foreigners will be gone once the pound devalues.

They ain't stooopid and they ain't gonna hang around once the pound is worth cents on the euro (or whatever their home currency is)

Milan.

:freaky::freaky::freaky::freaky::freaky:

You actually believe that?

They have moved here because there is work

vetran
1st November 2016, 12:49
50% of your earnings pay for taxes (hidden and otherwise). Why would you want a job?

ah a true European wants freedom for free.

Scooty I name you Tex Evoider!

vetran
1st November 2016, 12:51
It is not a question of whether I'll be refused. That's a non-issue. Time and time again visa applications fall through (from those coming outside of the EU) because another resource has been found in the interim. The point is clients do not wait! Brexiters just don't get it. I can move from job to job in hours rather than weeks or months.

Local labour is not being undercut. Business just don't want to pay more. Blame the employers!! And customers in the supermarkets will be the first to complain at the increased cost of fresh produce plucked from their fields a year or two down the line when that local labour finally gets off their backside to do the work.

You really don't understand your hypocrisy do you?

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 12:53
If you think Eastern Europeans are going to return home just because the sterling has fallen then you have no clue. What are they going to return home to? Nurses and medical staff earn 700 Euros a month for 300 hours of work. Builders earn about £3.00 per hour if they can find any work at all. IT developers are not leaving their countries of origin anyway and EU graduates working in retail/hospitality jobs in the UK have no jobs to return home to anyway.

As far as currency devaluation is concerned we need this to improve our balance of payments


ok DA, this one I have got a clue on.


This 3.00quid per hour is exactly the point.

Compared to their home countries the UK is effing expensive, they put up with this, by living carefully and saving every penny, and having no treats, and actually living below the standard that they would live at home, the goal being to save money.

When the pound devalues and prices in the UK rise, they won't be able to save money, and they will return home because their reason for being in the UK, to save money, will have been erased, and their quality of life will be better at home on the 3pound per hour.

This actually already happened, the pound for many years, from the introduction of the Euro to around 2007 floated around 60 to 65p to the Euro, and then I can't remember exactly, 2007/2008 the pound devalued to float around 80p to the euro, this actually bought a wave of Poles and Czechs back home.

The next devaluation of the pound will see more returning home.

Builders, you said, if they can find work, he he that's a joke, there's a building boom in central Europe - simple as that. No reason for anybody not to have a job, there are so many jobs.

As a recruiter you must know the trouble international companies are having to fill roles in the data centers in Central and Eastern Europe, they cannot find anybody locally and are bring people wholesale from Russia, other European countries and latin America

Retail and medical is also doing very well.

So, sorry old chap, in this post, your talking cods wallop.

Toodle pip,

Milan.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 12:55
They have moved here because there is work

Yes. In the exact same way I moved to Germany for work. Because that work was just not available in the UK, otherwise my higher education was a waste of time.

The UK as a growing need of low-skill workers. The UK is utterly dependent on low-skill workers. Many UK citizens will just not lower themselves.

Then there's 50% of folk that have gone to university who cannot get a job. They'll undoubtedly wish to move to the EU for brighter prospects in the years ahead.

The country can only detract lower-skill worker by becoming a high-skill economy. That's why the low-skill workers come. You can't change that by shutting the door.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 12:56
You really don't understand your hypocrisy do you?

Those are example of skilled and un-skilled labour. Not the same. You think the UK's un-skilled fruit pickers are there legally? Do you think that'll change after the UK leaves the EU?

Paddy
1st November 2016, 12:57
Just had a thought/brain fart, after Brexit does the Dublin Agreement apply to UK, because if not asylum seekers and refugees can just roll up to UK and the UK will have to accept them.

Yes, that was also the situation prior to 1972.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 12:58
:freaky::freaky::freaky::freaky::freaky:

You actually believe that?

They have moved here because there is work

yes, please see the answer I gave DA

Milan.

tomtomagain
1st November 2016, 13:00
The next devaluation of the pound will see more returning home.


The Polish unemployment rate is 8%. And it's at that rate even though millions of working-age Poles have moved to other European countries.

So Sterling will need to fall a long, long way before it becomes economical for a Pole to return to Poland.

jamesbrown
1st November 2016, 13:00
Then there's 50% of folk that have gone to university who cannot get a job.

I see, so the graduate unemployment rate is ~3%, but 50% of graduates cannot get a job.

Reality isn't your strong suite.

Assuming you meant underemployed, you're still completely wrong.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 13:03
I see, so the graduate unemployment rate is ~3%, but 50% of graduates cannot get a job.

Reality isn't your strong suite.

Assuming you meant underemployed, you're still completely wrong.

Sarcasm overload.

Of the 50% of young folks that do go to uni, many do not find employment suited to their education, unrewarding, or underpaid for their qualification.

The statistics hide many lies.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 13:08
ok DA, this one I have got a clue on.

Having been based in Central Europe for the last 18 years and during that time having periods in A, D, B, SE, FI, I've got quite a good view of what's going on, and not to mention, something I haven't shared before, the famous Benes Plan B, is property development, Benes and Co Ltd during the last 7 years have built and sold 50 family houses in Central Europe and next projects in the pipeline, currently negotiating a piece of land for an apartment block - anyway that's beside the point.

So, qualified to answer yes, tick that box, now to answer,

This 3.00quid per hour is exactly the point.

Compared to their home countries the UK is effing expensive, they put up with this, by living carefully and saving every penny, and having no treats, and actually living below the standard that they would live at home, the goal being to save money.

When the pound devalues and prices in the UK rise, they won't be able to save money, and they will return home because their reason for being in the UK, to save money, will have been erased, and their quality of life will be better at home on the 3pound per hour.

This actually already happened, the pound for many years, from the introduction of the Euro to around 2007 floated around 60 to 65p to the Euro, and then I can't remember exactly, 2007/2008 the pound devalued to float around 80p to the euro, this actually bought a wave of Poles and Czechs back home.

The next devaluation of the pound will see more returning home.

Builders, you said, if they can find work, he he that's a joke, there's a building boom in central Europe - simple as that. No reason for anybody not to have a job, there are so many jobs.

As a recruiter you must know the trouble international companies are having to fill roles in the data centers in Central and Eastern Europe, they cannot find anybody locally and are bring people wholesale from Russia, other European countries and latin America

Retail and medical is also doing very well.

So, sorry old chap, in this post, your talking cods wallop.

Toodle pip,

Milan.

You actually have not countered my points at all. Just once again come up with a load of cliches. there are few jobs in the areas that the majority of EU migrants come to the UK. These are retail and hospitality. Those that exist pay a few hundred Euros a month. In the medical professions nurses earn virtually nothing for which they have to work 300 hours a month for. There are no construction jobs in mediterranean EU other than low paid ones. In eastern EU construction workers earn similar pay to nurses again for long hours. Youth unemployment is very high which is why so many young Europeans come to work in the UK.
The £ may fall but so does the cost of everything else but like the rest of all your ilk the best you can do is hope for future gloom to support your position (we should already be in dire straits by now). As I said the EU is more likely to collapse than the UK is.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 13:09
Sarcasm overload.

Of the 50% of young folks that do go to uni, many do not find employment suited to their education, unrewarding, or underpaid for their qualification.

The statistics hide many lies.

so they come to the UK

d000hg
1st November 2016, 13:09
No we fought them to protect ourselves. The geopolitics (something that is clearly beyond your scope of understanding) may have been that by protecting other countries from tyrannies was part of the program of protecting Britain. After all Hitler did not want to fight Britain and Britain could have stayed out of the war. Ultimately a Europe controlled by the Nazis would have threatened Britain in the future.I'm not sure Churchill would agree with you, but you'd probably claim he was some kind of liberal.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 13:13
so they come to the UK

To make you pizza

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 13:16
To make you pizza

not for much longer

vetran
1st November 2016, 13:23
It is not a question of whether I'll be refused. That's a non-issue. Time and time again visa applications fall through (from those coming outside of the EU) because another resource has been found in the interim. The point is clients do not wait! Brexiters just don't get it. I can move from job to job in hours rather than weeks or months.

Local labour is not being undercut. Business just don't want to pay more. Blame the employers!! And customers in the supermarkets will be the first to complain at the increased cost of fresh produce plucked from their fields a year or two down the line when that local labour finally gets off their backside to do the work.

Lets try again with Colours

Pink Scooter undercuts the locals

so you selling points are you are a quick to obtain resource (quicker than local resources because Germany discourages contracting because of excellent and expensive employment rights) You have already stated you avoid tax so you are likely to be cheaper.
That is undercutting local labour whatever way you look at it. Not sure why you struggle with that concept. As the wages are at a high level then I will concede your competition should be sufficiently competent to combat it.

Red provision of cheap migrant workers is driving down wages at the bottom end

How do you align Local labour isn't being undercut with Business just don't want to pay? Even MoodyMod would cope with that.

Then you finish with well they are all illegal and its all the customers fault anyway.


jeez.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 13:23
not for much longer

Your local pizza boy moving to the burger industry?

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 13:25
You actually have not countered my points at all. Just once again come up with a load of cliches. there are few jobs in the areas that the majority of EU migrants come to the UK. These are retail and hospitality. Those that exist pay a few hundred Euros a month. In the medical professions nurses earn virtually nothing for which they have to work 300 hours a month for. There are no construction jobs in mediterranean EU other than low paid ones. In eastern EU construction workers earn similar pay to nurses again for long hours. Youth unemployment is very high which is why so many young Europeans come to work in the UK.
The £ may fall but so does the cost of everything else but like the rest of all your ilk the best you can do is hope for future gloom to support your position (we should already be in dire straits by now). As I said the EU is more likely to collapse than the UK is.



DA,

if I come up with clichés it's because I am a graduate of DA's school of clichés.

We'll have to agree to disagree because you are moving the goal posts, you're saying the CEE peoples won't go home and now you say you meant southern Europe ?

There are no southern Europeans in the UK on building sites, simple as that.

Share with us why the EU is more likely to collapse than the UK ?

The UK will remain in Europe and Europe will survive by evolving.

That's my wager.

What's your wager ?

Milan.

vetran
1st November 2016, 13:28
The UK will remain in Europe
That's my wager.

What's your wager ?

Milan.

I disagree, I think once Brussels realises we will leave they will sell the wine lake so they can float the UK into the middle of the Atlantic and out of Europe!

d000hg
1st November 2016, 13:29
Your local pizza boy moving to the burger industry?

His doctor told him he has to stop on the cholesterol.

vetran
1st November 2016, 13:32
Yes, that was also the situation prior to 1972.

They had to consider their claim. They did not have to accept them.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 13:43
DA,

if I come up with clichés it's because I am a graduate of DA's school of clichés.

We'll have to agree to disagree because you are moving the goal posts, you're saying the CEE peoples won't go home and now you say you meant southern Europe ?

There are no southern Europeans in the UK on building sites, simple as that.

Share with us why the EU is more likely to collapse than the UK ?

The UK will remain in Europe and Europe will survive by evolving.

That's my wager.

What's your wager ?

Milan.

I meant both Eastern and Southern EU . You can take either in isolation as both situations support my argument. The only way the EU will evolve is as a superstate gathering more power for itself. There is no sign that the economies will grow and youth unemployment will remain very high for eternity. The reason the UK will thrive is that it is a better environment for small business than EU countries. The EU on the other hand is only interested in playing to the established order of the large corporates.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 13:44
Your local pizza boy moving to the burger industry?

That may be so but it wont be in the UK. :laugh

https://infographic.statista.com/normal/chartoftheday_3644_youth_unemployment_still_unrele nting_in_europe_n.jpg

vetran
1st November 2016, 13:45
His doctor told him he has to stop on the cholesterol.

ah you missed the argument again & went for the man?

how typical.

milanbenes
1st November 2016, 13:52
I meant both Eastern and Southern EU . You can take either in isolation as both situations support my argument. The only way the EU will evolve is as a superstate gathering more power for itself. There is no sign that the economies will grow and youth unemployment will remain very high for eternity. The reason the UK will thrive is that it is a better environment for small business than EU countries. The EU on the other hand is only interested in playing to the established order of the large corporates.


Jesus I nearly spilt my apfel schorle, run that past me again...

"The EU on the other hand is only interested in playing to the established order of the large corporates"


and,, and, the UK is not ?

Milan.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 13:53
Lets try again with Colours

Pink Scooter undercuts the locals

so you selling points are you are a quick to obtain resource (quicker than local resources because Germany discourages contracting because of excellent and expensive employment rights) You have already stated you avoid tax so you are likely to be cheaper.
That is undercutting local labour whatever way you look at it. Not sure why you struggle with that concept. As the wages are at a high level then I will concede your competition should be sufficiently competent to combat it.

Red provision of cheap migrant workers is driving down wages at the bottom end

How do you align Local labour isn't being undercut with Business just don't want to pay? Even MoodyMod would cope with that.

Then you finish with well they are all illegal and its all the customers fault anyway.


jeez.

I'm not undercutting, I'm in a niche market. My USP is a lot to do with my past project experience. Nevertheless clients don't wait. Projects move on, you take advantage of the opportunity when it comes along not because there's a queue of folk standing at the door. I've never once stated I avoid taxes. In fact I'm more than certain I pay a lot more in tax than one man band UK Ltd's.

Businesses at the bottom end of the market are about short-term profits. That's a different game altogether from the top end.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 13:54
That may be so but it wont be in the UK. :laugh

https://infographic.statista.com/normal/chartoftheday_3644_youth_unemployment_still_unrele nting_in_europe_n.jpg

Yes that's because the youth of Spain have moved to Germany for work.

50% youth unemployment is not much when there's only 84 of you left and a shed load of British pensioners.

Paddy
1st November 2016, 13:55
They had to consider their claim. They did not have to accept them.


I remember the Hungarian refugees coming to the UK. The mere fact they were Hungarian was enough reason even though they had travelled across Europe to get here.

BTW: Local shop owner and family were among them. He has just retired and told me his story how he got to the UK.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 13:56
I remember the Hungarian refugees coming to the UK. The mere fact they were Hungarian was enough reason even though they had travelled across Europe to get here.

BTW: Local shop owner and family were among them. He has just retired and told me his story how he got to the UK.

They were all racists though

vetran
1st November 2016, 14:10
Back then the numbers were very small we could lose a thousand in London easily.


The number of asylum seekers before 1979 is difficult to determine as no separate statistics were collated before this point. A Parliamentary answer indicated that in 1973, 34 people had been granted refugee status.[34] The application of the 1951 Convention dealing with the treatment of refugees was still being applied, to a large extent, to those people fleeing persecution from behind the Iron Curtain.


UK asylum applications 1979-2009. Numbers of new applications for asylum, (not including dependents) peaked in 2002 at 84,130 - source; Home Office, Control of Immigration and Asylum statistics, HMSO
The total number of asylum applications in 1979 was 1563[35] and by 1988 had risen, fairly steadily but not too dramatically, to 3998.[36] In 1989 the numbers of applications rose sharply, to 11640, and by 1991 had reached 44840. The reasons for the dramatic rise are complex and have to be seen in the context of international travel patterns to other European nations.[37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_immigration_control_-_history

We had 10,000 in the Jungle when it was closed.

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 14:20
That may be so but it wont be in the UK. :laugh

https://infographic.statista.com/normal/chartoftheday_3644_youth_unemployment_still_unrele nting_in_europe_n.jpg

Have you got the figures for European countries outside of the EU?

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 15:30
Back then the numbers were very small we could lose a thousand in London easily.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_immigration_control_-_history

We had 10,000 in the Jungle when it was closed.

Could we do a one-to-one straight swap with 10,000 recruitment consultants?

vetran
1st November 2016, 15:51
Could we do a one-to-one straight swap with 10,000 recruitment consultants?

why you going to make up the tax shortfall?


Thought not!

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 15:56
why you going to make up the tax shortfall?


Thought not!

Is this the tax that recruitment consultants pay on the additional value they add to the UK economy?

shaunbhoy
1st November 2016, 16:07
Could we do a one-to-one straight swap with 10,000 recruitment consultants?

Who is this "we", spud? :tongue

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 16:09
Who is this "we", spud? :tongue

Just because I've moved doesn't mean I'm nor still avoiding tax in the UK.

Flashman
1st November 2016, 16:10
This is a continuation of the last thread where it was explained to DA the "typical" Brexiters was racist. It was then closed down by a certain admin.

Personally I think the typical Brexiter is an OAP or tradesman.

The first doesn't realise we have very little power on the world stage and is likely to be racist.

However the second doesn't realise it's the government screwing them to line their own pockets e.g. with directorships which is why their fees are being held down.

Same sh*t different day. Or more accurately. same sh*t different thread. :eyes. I think the typical Brexiter is someone who believes in democracy.

You morons lost. Just get used to it.

shaunbhoy
1st November 2016, 16:27
I'm not undercutting, I'm in a niche market.

There appear to be no limits to your abilities scooter. It is heartening to know that, even in the aftermath of a global recession, the quintessential Teuchter Village Idiot can still command such fees!!

:laugh

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 16:31
Have you got the figures for European countries outside of the EU?

Dont worry I am sure there is a good handful of third world backwaters with statistics that will make remoaners feel proud of their precious EU :laugh

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 16:37
There appear to be no limits to your abilities scooter. It is heartening to know that, even in the aftermath of a global recession, the quintessential Teuchter Village Idiot can still command such fees!!

:laugh

I so admire your mindless optimism, shauny.

If scooter and GB9 met in the bar at a village idiot's convention, had a straw chewing competition and then drunkenly consummated their new found connection, and GB9 then drank vodka all the way through his pregnancy, and then raised the child in a Glasgow tenement but loved it so dearly that he couldn't bear for it to go outside where it might be teased mercilessly for its stupidity, and instead sat it in front of the telly feeding it a diet of crisps, until one day social services had the child rescued through the wall by the Fire Brigade and then placed the child with scooter in Devon, where due to the lack of any realistic employment opportunities the monks at Buckfastleigh Abbey agreed to apprentice the child, but the child became hopelessly addicted to Buckie and was released into a Community Care setting, that child would be you, shauny.

DodgyAgent
1st November 2016, 16:47
I so admire your mindless optimism, shauny.

If scooter and GB9 met in the bar at a village idiot's convention, had a straw chewing competition and then drunkenly consummated their new found connection, and GB9 then drank vodka all the way through his pregnancy, and then raised the child in a Glasgow tenement but loved it so dearly that he couldn't bear for it to go outside where it might be teased mercilessly for its stupidity, and instead sat it in front of the telly feeding it a diet of crisps, until one day social services had the child rescued through the wall by the Fire Brigade and then placed the child with scooter in Devon, where due to the lack of any realistic employment opportunities the monks at Buckfastleigh Abbey agreed to apprentice the child, but the child became hopelessly addicted to Buckie and was released into a Community Care setting, that child would be you, shauny.

Clearly Shauny is a member of Scotlands upper class. :laugh

vetran
1st November 2016, 16:58
Is this the tax that recruitment consultants pay on the additional value they add to the UK economy?

its teh tax they pay whether they add value is another matter.

vetran
1st November 2016, 17:00
I so admire your mindless optimism, shauny.

If scooter and GB9 met in the bar at a village idiot's convention, had a straw chewing competition and then drunkenly consummated their new found connection, and GB9 then drank vodka all the way through his pregnancy, and then raised the child in a Glasgow tenement but loved it so dearly that he couldn't bear for it to go outside where it might be teased mercilessly for its stupidity, and instead sat it in front of the telly feeding it a diet of crisps, until one day social services had the child rescued through the wall by the Fire Brigade and then placed the child with scooter in Devon, where due to the lack of any realistic employment opportunities the monks at Buckfastleigh Abbey agreed to apprentice the child, but the child became hopelessly addicted to Buckie and was released into a Community Care setting, that child would be you, shauny.

feelin the love!

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 17:03
its teh tax they pay whether they add value is another matter.

So if they didn't add value, someone else would be earning that money and paying tax on it (unless they had the wisdom to participate in the Oude Joris Max 120 scheme).

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 17:03
feelin the love!

Shauny's the best!

BlasterBates
1st November 2016, 17:07
Same sh*t different day. Or more accurately. same sh*t different thread. :eyes. I think the typical Brexiter is someone who believes in democracy.

You morons lost. Just get used to it.

Oh we are ..

We're just wondering how the government will drag itself out of the sh*te

EU rules out starting trade negotiations until the UK leaves the EU (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/01/liam-fox-pre-brexit-deal-setback-european-union)

Brexit: Australia rules out starting trade negotiations with UK until it leaves EU | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-australia-uk-trade-deal-negotiations-article-50-eu-withdrawal-a7380696.html)

:D

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 17:10
Same sh*t different day. Or more accurately. same sh*t different thread. :eyes. I think the typical Brexiter is someone who believes in democracy.

You morons lost. Just get used to it.

It's hilarious in a sick car crash kind of way. It's you lot who seem so grumpy.

jamesbrown
1st November 2016, 17:47
If scooter and GB9 met in the bar at a village idiot's convention, had a straw chewing competition and then drunkenly consummated their new found connection, and GB9 then drank vodka all the way through his pregnancy, and then raised the child in a Glasgow tenement but loved it so dearly that he couldn't bear for it to go outside where it might be teased mercilessly for its stupidity, and instead sat it in front of the telly feeding it a diet of crisps, until one day social services had the child rescued through the wall by the Fire Brigade and then placed the child with scooter in Devon, where due to the lack of any realistic employment opportunities the monks at Buckfastleigh Abbey agreed to apprentice the child, but the child became hopelessly addicted to Buckie and was released into a Community Care setting, that child would be you, shauny.

:rollin:

"A" for effort. You really do have too much feckin' time on your hands though. Git a job!

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 18:03
:rollin:

"A" for effort. You really do have too much feckin' time on your hands though. Git a job!

Got a contract so don't need a job.

NotAllThere
1st November 2016, 18:09
It's hilarious in a sick car crash kind of way. It's you lot who seem so grumpy.
I think the little snowflakes are getting upset at having their ignorance constantly being exposed and mocked.

shaunbhoy
1st November 2016, 18:33
I so admire your mindless optimism, shauny.

If scooter and GB9 met in the bar at a village idiot's convention, had a straw chewing competition and then drunkenly consummated their new found connection, and GB9 then drank vodka all the way through his pregnancy, and then raised the child in a Glasgow tenement but loved it so dearly that he couldn't bear for it to go outside where it might be teased mercilessly for its stupidity, and instead sat it in front of the telly feeding it a diet of crisps, until one day social services had the child rescued through the wall by the Fire Brigade and then placed the child with scooter in Devon, where due to the lack of any realistic employment opportunities the monks at Buckfastleigh Abbey agreed to apprentice the child, but the child became hopelessly addicted to Buckie and was released into a Community Care setting, that child would be you, shauny.

And he would probably be doing your appraisals. :laugh

BlasterBates
1st November 2016, 18:37
UK stocks to plummet by 80% (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-01/hedge-fund-manager-odey-says-u-k-stocks-could-plummet-80)

That is the prediction of a "Brexiteer".


We are now destined to have a recession in the U.K. as well as inflation,” Odey wrote. “It will be difficult for the stock market to remain above all of this.” An official at the $8.8 billion London-based investment firm didn’t respond to a call and e-mails seeking comment.
Odey, who spoke in favor of Brexit before the vote in June, hasn’t made money at his main Odey European Inc. fund since 2014, when it gained 5.5 percent. He was down almost 13 percent last year.

Old Greg
1st November 2016, 18:42
UK stocks to plummet by 80% (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-01/hedge-fund-manager-odey-says-u-k-stocks-could-plummet-80)

That is the prediction of a "Brexiteer".

He should be talking the economy up like the rest of us.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 18:43
Have you got the figures for European countries outside of the EU?

I don't see Georgia on that list. And apparently that's in Europe.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 18:45
There appear to be no limits to your abilities scooter. It is heartening to know that, even in the aftermath of a global recession, the quintessential Teuchter Village Idiot can still command such fees!!

:laugh

I also make cracking omelettes.

scooterscot
1st November 2016, 18:49
Clearly Shauny is a member of Scotlands upper class. :laugh

Punctuation - the true class identifier.

jamesbrown
1st November 2016, 19:35
He should be talking the economy up like the rest of us.

There was a time (pre-QE) when hedge funds were actually hedge funds. Now, everyone is an investing genius and all stocks are permanently undervalued.

Until they aren't.

d000hg
1st November 2016, 21:54
I think the typical Brexiter is someone who believes in democracy.

You morons lost. Just get used to it.And yet if it had been 52-48 the other way you'd have been crying like a spoiled baby about government misleading, etc, not applauding democracy.

People have a right to continue to campaign for whatever the heck they believe in, and whinge about the result and the reason for it... that is PART of living in a free democratic society. Get used to it.

scooterscot
2nd November 2016, 07:52
4%? More like 25% if you're buying a Macbook :laugh

Inflation 'set to soar to 4% by late 2017'
(http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37838087)

'Another day of Britain lurching towards disaster - with the Tories' plan being to throw money at multinational companies to get them to stay, while assuming that the EU is going to grant the UK tariff-free access, despite the EU consistently and persistently warning that it won't happen - UNLESS the UK government accepts freedom of movement.'

Old Greg
2nd November 2016, 08:21
4%? More like 25% if you're buying a Macbook :laugh

Inflation 'set to soar to 4% by late 2017'
(http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37838087)

'Another day of Britain lurching towards disaster - with the Tories' plan being to throw money at multinational companies to get them to stay, while assuming that the EU is going to grant the UK tariff-free access, despite the EU consistently and persistently warning that it won't happen - UNLESS the UK government accepts freedom of movement.'

Bloody Remoaner. That's great news because it makes UK tech more competitive!

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2008/04/picture-2-19-14-52.png