How far away from public sector do I need to be to be safe?

[b0redom]

Bit of a convoluted question, but bear with me.

I have been contacted by an old client. The chain would go:

MyCo -> Agent -> Old Client -> Govt Dept

I realise that:

MyCo -> Agent -> Govt Dept would make me a prime target for post April IR35 nastiness, but as there's a consultancy in the way does this reduce the risk?

Thoughts?

[eek]

Bit of a convoluted question, but bear with me.

I have been contacted by an old client. The chain would go:

MyCo -> Agent -> Old Client -> Govt Dept

I realise that:

MyCo -> Agent -> Govt Dept would make me a prime target for post April IR35 nastiness, but as there's a consultancy in the way does this reduce the risk?

Thoughts?

It depends on the level of risk the agent is willing to accept. Example 3 in the consultation stated that a consultancy providing bums on seats in the public sector is still caught under the rules.

Best to wait until late next week once we've got the actual law (Monday) and people have had the time to read it...

[VectraMan]

I imagine the problem you'll have is that Govt Dept's contract with Old Client will stipulate that any sub-contractors have to follow the same rules, and so on up the chain.

[northernladuk]

You are missing key details about what the engagement with the Govt Body is. If it's just body shopping you are stuffed. If they are providing a managed service and a percentage of not people services then you are in a much better place. It's just guess work if you don't know what is being delivered.

But even then it's guess work until we see the tools and dust settles.

[BlasterBates]

Some agent or consultancy in the chain is going to carry the can and so it probably won't work. At the end of the day there is a contractor working inside IR35 and someone will have to foot the bill.

[b0redom]

Well...... It's a platform refresh and I have very niche skills as I was one of the guys who put the platform in 11 years ago, so hardly bums on seats.

That being said I'm still providing professional services rather than tangible physical deliverables (ie hardware).

I guess my question is where does the panel think the chain will end? It could theoretically go on forever:

I provide services to mining co.....
Who provide minerals to widget co......
Who provide widgets to factory co.......
Who provide parts for radar co.......
Who provide radar units for ship building co.....
Who provide ships to UK Navy

Am I still caught?

[psychocandy]

It depends on the level of risk the agent is willing to accept. Example 3 in the consultation stated that a consultancy providing bums on seats in the public sector is still caught under the rules.

Best to wait until late next week once we've got the actual law (Monday) and people have had the time to read it...

Will be watching this one. I was always working on the understanding that you'd be contracted to the consultancy and not the public sector so you were safe.

But reading the consultation document it seems it might be the case. The consultancy Im contracted to certainly dont seem to have considered this.

[gables]

Well...... It's a platform refresh and I have very niche skills as I was one of the guys who put the platform in 11 years ago, so hardly bums on seats.

That being said I'm still providing professional services rather than tangible physical deliverables (ie hardware).

I guess my question is where does the panel think the chain will end? It could theoretically go on forever:

I provide services to mining co.....
Who provide minerals to widget co......
Who provide widgets to factory co.......
Who provide parts for radar co.......
Who provide radar units for ship building co.....
Who provide ships to UK Navy

Am I still caught?

In this situation I'd have said no, unless your contract\working practices with the mining co is caught for IR35 reasons. In this case the chain is 'broken' or rather linked by sales of bits. If though you were on the navy ship under the contract with the mining co then you appear to be caught.

[northernladuk]

Well...... It's a platform refresh and I have very niche skills as I was one of the guys who put the platform in 11 years ago, so hardly bums on seats.

That being said I'm still providing professional services rather than tangible physical deliverables (ie hardware).

I guess my question is where does the panel think the chain will end? It could theoretically go on forever:

I provide services to mining co.....
Who provide minerals to widget co......
Who provide widgets to factory co.......
Who provide parts for radar co.......
Who provide radar units for ship building co.....
Who provide ships to UK Navy

Am I still caught?

Too hypothetical and we don't know at the moment.

If you are really pushing for an answer and are ignoring the fact we don't know I'd assume caught unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt (but remembering we don't know) that you are not.

HTH.

[sal]

I believe the correct answer is - ask the agent, as the agencies will be the ones responsible for performing the checks and footing the potential PAYE/NI bill