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vetran
1st January 2017, 15:35
German police screen hundreds of North Africans at Cologne station | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-security-idUKKBN14L0NZ?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FUKWorldNews+%28News +%2F+UK+%2F+World+News%29)


German police said they screened hundreds of North Africans on New Year's Eve at the main railway station in the western city of Cologne, where hundreds of women were sexually assaulted and robbed during celebrations a year ago.

Last year's attacks in Cologne, where police said the suspects were mainly of North African and Arab appearance, fuelled criticism of Chancellor Angela Merkel's decision to allow over a million asylum seekers into Germany in 2015 and 2016.

"Hundreds of Nafris screened at main railway station," Cologne police tweeted using a colloquial expression for North Africans. With the tweet, the police showed a picture of a large group of men waiting behind barriers..

The lefties would be quite rightly incandescent if we did that here.

SueEllen
1st January 2017, 15:40
Firstly we don't have the same number of immigrants of North Africa hertigage here.

Secondly you clearly know nothing about the police's use of stop and search.

vetran
1st January 2017, 15:52
Firstly we don't have the same number of immigrants of North Africa hertigage here.

Secondly you clearly know nothing about the police's use of stop and search.

wrong...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigration_to_Europe

sorry do point to where the Met have tweeted "stopped & searched hundreds of Darkies today"

NotAllThere
1st January 2017, 16:12
...you clearly know nothing...FTFY. Your original posting was needlessly verbose.

vetran
1st January 2017, 16:15
FTFY. Your original posting was needlessly verbose.

Ah labelling & Insulting good to see you know how to assert your intellectual authority.

If it bends its your elbow :wink

NotAllThere
1st January 2017, 16:18
Ah labelling & Insulting good to see you know how to assert your intellectual authority.

If it bends its your elbow :wink

At least with insults you get a fighting chance. It's a kindness, really.

vetran
1st January 2017, 16:23
I insult you to try & appear intellectually superior. I can't argue the point as I don't understand it

FTFY

darmstadt
1st January 2017, 16:24
wrong...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigration_to_Europe

sorry do point to where the Met have tweeted "stopped & searched hundreds of Darkies today"

Not unlike the Sus law and did the German police use such racist language like you?

The official statement:


Am Hauptbahnhof haben wir mehrere Hundert Personen, die augenscheinlich aus Afrika stammen, festgestellt. Diese werden nun auf dem Breslauer Platz kontrolliert. Ihre Identität wird festgestellt und dabei auch der ausländerrechtliche Status überprüft.
Es erfolgen unmittelbare Absprachen zwischen der Bundespolizei und der Polizei Köln.
Die Personengruppe ist unter Kontrolle und es geht von ihr keine Gefahr aus.
Diese Maßnahmen sind Teil des Einsatzkonzeptes.
---
Several hundreds of people, seemingly of African descent, have been tracked at Cologne main railway station. They are now being screened on the Breslauer Platz square for identity and legal status.
Federal Police and Cologne police together are arranging directly.
Persons are under kept under control and there is no imminent danger.
These measures are part of the operational concept.
---
A la gare de Cologne nous avons aperçu plusieures centaines de personnes, apparément d’origine nord-africaine. Ceux-ci se font interpeller sur la place « Breslauer Platz » afin de déterminer leur identité ainsi que leur droit de séjour.
La police fédérale est en concertation directe avec la police de Cologne.
Le groupe est sous contrôle et ne représente pas de danger.
Ces mesures font partie du plan d’intervention.
---
لاحظنا وجود عدة مئات الأشخاص اصلهم ، كما يبدو ، إفريقي. يتم التحقق منهم في ميدان ((برسلاور بلاتز)). يتم التحقق من هوياتهم الي جانب وضعهم القانوني كأجانب.
يتم التشاور المباشر بين الشرطة الاتحادية والشرطة في كولونيا.
إن تجمع الاشخاص تحت سيطرة الشرطة ولا يصدرعنه الخطر.
هذه الإجراءات جزء من خطة عمل الشرطة.

You might be unaware but unlike the UK, in most European countries you are required to carry an ID card and the police can stop you at anytime and ask to see it. If you don't have it, then it is an offence and you will be fined. This is also a very good method of keeping out undesirables and sending them back to where they belong which happens a lot in Germany, maybe the UK could implement something like that :laugh

vetran
1st January 2017, 16:35
Not unlike the Sus law and did the German police use such racist language like you?

The official statement:



You might be unaware but unlike the UK, in most European countries you are required to carry an ID card and the police can stop you at anytime and ask to see it. If you don't have it, then it is an offence and you will be fined. This is also a very good method of keeping out undesirables and sending them back to where they belong which happens a lot in Germany, maybe the UK could implement something like that :laugh

Nafri as in the tweet reported is considered polite address? Darkies was the closest I could think of without being too offensive.


Several hundreds of people, seemingly of African descent, have been tracked at Cologne main railway station.

Can't imagine that statement appearing on the BBC website or even issued by the Met.

We refused the ID card mainly because of the previous abuses in other countries. Maybe we can issue the undesirables with Bright Badges so we know who they are? Of course IBM etc. will do a better job nowadays.

Not sure its a laughing matter. Last New year I was alarmed by the incidents you all tried to brush under the carpet, it seems the reaction this year by the Police is just as scary.

NotAllThere
1st January 2017, 16:47
FTFYSure. Keep telling yourself that, princess. :ohwell

vetran
1st January 2017, 18:20
Sure. Keep telling yourself that, princess. :ohwell

Oh NAT you know the under the terms of the restraining order you aren't allowed to call me Princess, Cuddle Cubby or Cupcake. How often do I have to tell you?

xoggoth
1st January 2017, 18:38
in most European countries you are required to carry an ID card and the police can stop you at anytime and ask to see it

Taking one to a police station within a reasonable period should avoid any penalty, as with a driving licence, but in general ID cards are a pretty good idea. I have no idea why there is so much opposition in the UK.

xoggoth
1st January 2017, 18:41
Off topic but CUK doesn't seem to work well in IE11. View post does nothing, and edit post does not show previous comment.

NotAllThere
1st January 2017, 19:39
Sure. Keep telling yourself that, princess. :ohwell


Oh NAT you know the under the terms of the restraining order you aren't allowed to call me Princess, Cuddle Cubby or Cupcake. How often do I have to tell you?

My deepest apologies, snowflake.

Cliphead
1st January 2017, 19:40
Bugger, out of popcorn and no shops open...

vetran
1st January 2017, 20:40
Bugger, out of popcorn and no shops open...

nothing to see just some sad old expat who can't recognise reality.

SueEllen
2nd January 2017, 03:33
wrong...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigration_to_Europe

sorry do point to where the Met have tweeted "stopped & searched hundreds of Darkies today"

"Darkies" or what ever racists like you call non-white people in the UK are not mainly from North Africa.

Depending on the minority population a particular police force e.g. the Met, Merseyside police serves is what they stop and search.

SueEllen
2nd January 2017, 03:46
Nafri as in the tweet reported is considered polite address? Darkies was the closest I could think of without being too offensive.



Can't imagine that statement appearing on the BBC website or even issued by the Met.

We refused the ID card mainly because of the previous abuses in other countries. Maybe we can issue the undesirables with Bright Badges so we know who they are? Of course IBM etc. will do a better job nowadays.

Not sure its a laughing matter. Last New year I was alarmed by the incidents you all tried to brush under the carpet, it seems the reaction this year by the Police is just as scary.

Considering quite a few rural folk in the UK welcomed foreigners during WWII and beyond you are completely offensive.

I suggest you get your globe out plus use Wikipedia to look at what countries where former British colonies and their links to the UK today.

The history of former British colonies and how they gained independence is different to former French, Belgium, etc colonies. This still governs the relationship between different countries today and explains why different European countries can and can't interfere with another country even if there is a civil war like Syria.

In regards to ID cards in the UK - the people who are really strongly against ID cards are people who think the state services us, the people, not the other way round, and are on the left and right of the political spectrum. I only found this out when I contacted people when a certain Blair was trying to sneak them in via the back door.

NotAllThere
2nd January 2017, 06:21
nothing to see just some sad old expat who can't recognise reality.Rich, coming from one whose worldview is informed by the Daily Mail and who displays his deep ignorance and narrow-mindedness on oh-so-many subjects on a daily basis.

ID cards were adopted across Europe after the first world war began, to be able to identify foreigners more easily. Britain never felt the need. A significant reason that the pilot for ID cards in Britain failed was that it was linked to a central government database. In many countries, ID cards are handled locally, or at county level.

darmstadt
2nd January 2017, 07:32
nothing to see just some sad old expat who can't recognise reality.

Says the person who can't find another word for persons of North African origin other than a deeply offensive racist term...Presumably a convert to alt-right is in the works here...

vetran
2nd January 2017, 12:16
so is Nafri as used by the Police an acceptable term?

SueEllen
2nd January 2017, 12:23
so is Nafri as used by the Police an acceptable term?

Since I'm not German I wouldn't be able to tell you.

If it it's used like N***** or P*** then definitely no.

If it's used like Scot or Yank then it could be.

shaunbhoy
2nd January 2017, 12:31
maybe the UK could implement something like that :laugh

We have. Why the fook do you think you and scooter are now in Deutschland? :laugh

vetran
2nd January 2017, 12:36
Rich, coming from one whose worldview is informed by the Daily Mail and who displays his deep ignorance and narrow-mindedness on oh-so-many subjects on a daily basis.

ID cards were adopted across Europe after the first world war began, to be able to identify foreigners more easily. Britain never felt the need. A significant reason that the pilot for ID cards in Britain failed was that it was linked to a central government database. In many countries, ID cards are handled locally, or at county level.

Oh dear, you are as usual talking bollocks, rarely is ones username so well chosen. Do feel free to insult & condescend as usual, you are almost good at that.


Identity cards in Britain: past experience and policy implications | History and Policy (http://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/identity-cards-in-britain-past-experience-and-policy-implications)


The first National Registration was taken during the First World War. The context was a fierce debate raging in the War Cabinet between those ministers willing to consider conscription and those who wanted to continue the policy of voluntarism.
......

Under the National Registration Bill, introduced by the President of the Local Government Board, Walter Long, in July 1915, personal information on all the adult population was compiled in locally-held registers, and identity cards were issued.




British civil servants did not forget the identity card. Plans for a new national register were written into the War Book. On the 29th September 1939, the second National Register was introduced for three specified purposes 'for the duration of the present emergency': co-ordinating national service, national security and the administration of rationing. This time the local registers were backed up by a comprehensive central register held at the Central National Register Office near Southport. Seven thousand transcript books contained details of forty million registrations. Identity cards - folded cards with name, address but not date of birth - were issued.

as you can see both were linked to a central register.


of course the Judiciary saw though a laissez faire retention.




By the early 1950s, the identity card had become a routine part of policing. In 1950, a young man, Clarence Willcock, was stopped in his car by a policeman in North London on suspicion of speeding and asked for his identity card. Like the good Young Liberal that he was, Willcock refused to produce his card. Willcock's argument to the Middlesex magistrates was that the National Register was a piece of wartime legislation that was no longer in force in peacetime. The magistrates disagreed. The Appeal Court not only confirmed the judgement but also gave Willcock an absolute discharge and in his concluding remarks, Lord Goddard, the Lord Chief Justice and soon to be infamous as the hanging judge in Derek Bentley case, strongly criticised the police's use of identity cards:

It is obvious that the police now, as a matter of routine, demand the production of national registration identity cards whenever they stop or interrogate a motorist for whatever cause. Of course, if they are looking for a stolen car or have reason to believe that a particular motorist is engaged in committing a crime, that is one thing, but to demand a national registration identity card from all and sundry ... , for instance, from a lady who may leave her car outside a shop longer than she should, or some trivial matter of that sort,...is wholly unreasonable.

This Act was passed for security purposes, and not for the purposes for which, apparently, it is now sought to be used. To use Acts of Parliament, passed for particular purposes during war, in times when the war is past, except that technically a state of war exists, tends to turn law-abiding subjects into lawbreakers, which is a most undesirable state of affairs. Further, in this country we have always prided ourselves on the good feeling that exists between the police and the public and such action tends to make the people resentful of the acts of the police and inclines them to obstruct the police instead of to assist them.

stek
2nd January 2017, 15:23
Since I'm not German I wouldn't be able to tell you.

If it it's used like N***** or P*** then definitely no.

If it's used like Scot or Yank then it could be.

When I was in Germany the mrs' boss always referred to her African friend (from Mali) as 'Der Affe' - i.e. The Monkey. Nice...

NotAllThere
2nd January 2017, 15:44
I feel I'm doing some good here. Making the ignorant actually check their facts before posting and even do a bit of research. :D

vetran
2nd January 2017, 16:34
I feel I'm talking Bollox:D

FTFY.

shaunbhoy
2nd January 2017, 16:36
I feel I'm doing some good here.

Linky!!!!! :tongue

LondonManc
3rd January 2017, 16:36
No different to skinheads being targeted by police here 35 years ago because of prior behaviour. If you've had an organised sexassaultathon last year by the north African immigrants, surely they're the safe bet to do it again?

SueEllen will no doubt be able to tell us about reoffending rates.

Granted, they shouldn't be singled out for blanket treatment but I think ze Germans got it right.



With a more suspicious tone....
Merkel's got to try and get re-elected somehow you know!

original PM
3rd January 2017, 16:38
Is it cuz they is black innit

darmstadt
3rd January 2017, 22:17
The lefties would be quite rightly incandescent if we did that here.

In the UK, police officers are allowed to search an individual without reasonable suspicion under Section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act. A senior police officer has to authorize the use of this policy in his or her district.

Ministry of Justice statistics show that black and Asian people are a lot more likely to be searched under Section 60 than white people are, which is why numerous British activists have been fighting the law for years. They accuse the police of racial profiling. But in January 2016 the UK Supreme Court ruled that Section 60 was in accordance with the law and did not need to be changed.

Racial profiling exists in the UK even though its not called that although interestingly enough it is illegal in the USA....

vetran
3rd January 2017, 23:55
In the UK, police officers are allowed to search an individual without reasonable suspicion under Section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act. A senior police officer has to authorize the use of this policy in his or her district.

Ministry of Justice statistics show that black and Asian people are a lot more likely to be searched under Section 60 than white people are, which is why numerous British activists have been fighting the law for years. They accuse the police of racial profiling. But in January 2016 the UK Supreme Court ruled that Section 60 was in accordance with the law and did not need to be changed.

Racial profiling exists in the UK even though its not called that although interestingly enough it is illegal in the USA....

Yes it does appear to according to the figures. This is why I was so excited about the Police being issued with body cameras. Imagine if they did unfairly stop someone it could be reviewed with community leaders and if officers were misbehaving then they could be educated or dismissed as needed. Of course it would also support charges of resisting arrest and various offensive behavior from suspects as shared by members of my family and friends who were in the Police.

Note stop & searches are being adjusted to reflect the population

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/480250/bulletin.pdf

Figure 4.01

I look forward eagerly to prosecutions of both sides using this technology the Police should be beyond reproach and the Public treated with respect however the Police shouldn't be hobbled because the criminal is a member of an ethnic minority.

Of course I assume all the police action shows cut the bits about the Pigs beating the Tulip out of suspects just because they have funny names or a bit of colour and it never gets mentioned again not even with friends or relatives.

Unfortunately this apparent prejudice also seems to extend to the CPS, Judicial system and prison service because there are considerably more of certain races in the prison population than would be expected based on the general populations ethnic make up. I do wonder how the racists have managed to arrange this?

However I don't remember the UK Police rounding up hundreds of people in one place based on their apparent ethnicity (not the predominant ethnicity of the area) and tweeting about them using what appears to be a racist term. Can you point to any?

Racial profiling may be illegal in the US but you are far more likely to be shot if you are black.

As I said in my original post it seemed like an over reaction from the German Police and not something I condoned, if it happened in the UK the TV would be quite rightly be wall to wall Shami Chakrabati & co decrying the Police & government the granuaid would explode in righteous indignation.

SueEllen
4th January 2017, 09:12
Yes it does appear to according to the figures. This is why I was so excited about the Police being issued with body cameras. Imagine if they did unfairly stop someone it could be reviewed with community leaders and if officers were misbehaving then they could be educated or dismissed as needed. Of course it would also support charges of resisting arrest and various offensive behavior from suspects as shared by members of my family and friends who were in the Police.

Note stop & searches are being adjusted to reflect the population

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/480250/bulletin.pdf

Figure 4.01

I look forward eagerly to prosecutions of both sides using this technology the Police should be beyond reproach and the Public treated with respect however the Police shouldn't be hobbled because the criminal is a member of an ethnic minority.

Of course I assume all the police action shows cut the bits about the Pigs beating the Tulip out of suspects just because they have funny names or a bit of colour and it never gets mentioned again not even with friends or relatives.

Unfortunately this apparent prejudice also seems to extend to the CPS, Judicial system and prison service because there are considerably more of certain races in the prison population than would be expected based on the general populations ethnic make up. I do wonder how the racists have managed to arrange this?

However I don't remember the UK Police rounding up hundreds of people in one place based on their apparent ethnicity (not the predominant ethnicity of the area) and tweeting about them using what appears to be a racist term. Can you point to any?

Racial profiling may be illegal in the US but you are far more likely to be shot if you are black.

As I said in my original post it seemed like an over reaction from the German Police and not something I condoned, if it happened in the UK the TV would be quite rightly be wall to wall Shami Chakrabati & co decrying the Police & government the granuaid would explode in righteous indignation.

To answer part of your rant - judges have been found to give harsher sentences to certain ethnic groups and sexes depending on the crime. The CPS has also been found wanting in the same way, while the prison service just deals with what they are given. In fact lots of people see parole board members as lefties.

In regards to cameras - in the US people know to put cameras in their cars facing both inwards and outwards in case they get stopped by police.

vetran
4th January 2017, 09:59
To answer part of your rant - judges have been found to give harsher sentences to certain ethnic groups and sexes depending on the crime. The CPS has also been found wanting in the same way, while the prison service just deals with what they are given. In fact lots of people see parole board members as lefties.

In regards to cameras - in the US people know to put cameras in their cars facing both inwards and outwards in case they get stopped by police.

Not an answer. Not sure supplying statistics and asking questions counts as a rant, labeling however does suggest you are unable to debate.


Among those remanded in custody, all ethnic groups were most likely to have later
received a custodial sentence. However, White and C&O defendants remanded in
custody at the Crown Court were more likely (72%-75%) to have later received a
custodial sentence than Black, Asian and Mixed defendants (66%-69%). Defendants
from BAME groups remanded in custody were more likely to be acquitted or not tried
later (14%-17%) than White defendants (11%


Overall, in 2014, 243,000 offenders were sentenced – a 22% decline since 2010.
The proportion of ethnic groups sentenced has been broadly stable; mirroring the
trend seen in prosecutions.


oops the figures don't quite agree with your racist judge / CPS theory.

Now there are studies that compare sentencing as a broad brush which suggest this might be the case, what they don't compare is the severity of the crime. However I can't see how the Racist Judge would get away with it as someone would spot it pretty quickly and it would be dealt with. The tag "Institutional racism" scares the hell out of most public organisations.

If however there is really a disparity then it should be identified & fixed.

As I say Body cameras are great, I look forward to the racist Police being prosecuted and the false accusations from suspects being routed out. As usual there are two sides to each story. Accusations of hidden Police Brutality based on the USA are hardly relevant to British policing.

shaunbhoy
4th January 2017, 12:26
This is why I was so excited about the Police being issued with body cameras.

I wouldn't get TOO excited vetran. In a few short years, the effectiveness of this technology will be largely dependent upon the ability of the EE network to provide sufficient data rates to support it.
And unless there is a sea change in the attitudes of our mobile operators to properly support and maintain their network coverage, the value will be severely degraded.

original PM
4th January 2017, 12:51
Not an answer. Not sure supplying statistics and asking questions counts as a rant, labeling however does suggest you are unable to debate.





oops the figures don't quite agree with your racist judge / CPS theory.

Now there are studies that compare sentencing as a broad brush which suggest this might be the case, what they don't compare is the severity of the crime. However I can't see how the Racist Judge would get away with it as someone would spot it pretty quickly and it would be dealt with. The tag "Institutional racism" scares the hell out of most public organisations.

If however there is really a disparity then it should be identified & fixed.

As I say Body cameras are great, I look forward to the racist Police being prosecuted and the false accusations from suspects being routed out. As usual there are two sides to each story. Accusations of hidden Police Brutality based on the USA are hardly relevant to British policing.

It would be good - at least it will stop Laqueesha screaming he 'didn do nuffink' if it is all on camera.

ECommerceConsultant
4th January 2017, 16:10
I live in Germany, and the events of last year's New Years eve were absolutely shocking to all people in Germany.

I was out on New Year's eve, and I was in my city's main train station, and it packed with migrants - all hanging in groups, behaving badly, running around, shouting, setting off fireworks in the station. As we walked by them, we were nervous due to what happened last year...but the police presence was very big, all with clearly visible weapons, the visual deterrent seemed to have worked. There is more CCTV as well now.

Germany was such a trusting safe nation, but now they've had to change their strategy due to everything that has happened, and to be able to manage over a million people of unknown backgrounds arriving in the country.

I'm glad to be honest, that there has been an increase in stop and search. It's precisely what brought the Berlin Christmas terrorist down in Italy.