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davemahon88
21st January 2017, 07:31
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6kr9nagksm637g/IR35%20Communication.docx?dl=0


Subject: HMRC legislative changes to how you’re paid on assignment to TfL

Date: 21st December 2016

The Government is changing off-payroll working rules across the public sector from 6 April 2017 and believes public sector bodies have a duty to ensure that everyone who works for them pays the right amount of tax. This affects you as a limited company worker on a temporary contract as you are not on TfL’s payroll. These changes affect all public sector bodies. You can find out more in the Government’s Autumn Statement (section 4.11) and in this guidance from HMRC. What this means for you You will not be able to continue on assignment at TfL as a limited company worker and must change your pay status by Friday 17 February 2017. What you need to doTfL has written to your manager asking them to consider various options. These options are listed below. Please note that not all options may be available to you or your manager. Please discuss your options with your manager and with us. Please do this now and in early January as your manager will need to make a decision by Friday 20 January 2017.

The options (not all will be available to everyone) are:
1. Continue as NPL and convert to PAYE status (see glossary). Transfer to new contract by Friday 17 February 2017;
2. Continue as NPL and convert to umbrella company status (see glossary) by Friday 17 February 2017;
3. Convert to an employee on a permanent or fixed term contract. This will need to go through the normal recruitment approval and Headcount Controls process;
4. Stop working for TfL. This would need to happen by Wednesday 5 April 2017 to comply with the legislation.
5. Critical workers who cannot be put into the above options must be highlighted to the NPL team as a priority and we will review all options in order to retain your skills and deliver the work required by the business.

If you have questions or need clarification of any of this, please call or email us and we will be in touch as soon as possible. You can also access the latest news on off-payroll working, a glossary of terms and FAQs on the NPL homepage under ‘Working at TfL’here.

This change is happening quickly and may come as a surprise to you if it’s the first time you’ve heard about the legislative reforms. You’ll need to have conversations with your manager and your agency contact to ensure TfL meets its legislative duties.

Thank you for helping us meet these new legislative reforms within such a short timeframe, especially with the Christmas break upon us and the fact that we’re all busy delivering against our objectives. Your support is appreciated and we will give you as much support as we can in return.

cojak
21st January 2017, 09:10
4.Stop working for TfL. This would need to happen by Wednesday 5 April 2017 to comply with the legislation

Actually, make that Wednesday 1 March 2017, if you know what's good for you...

b r
21st January 2017, 18:31
depends on payment schedule, but more probably 24th February if monthly

SussexSeagull
21st January 2017, 20:24
Isn't option 5 extremely dodgy?

Just because you are deemed a critical worker doesn't mean you aren't inside IR35 and the HMRC aren't going to come after you.

eek
21st January 2017, 20:26
depends on payment schedule, but more probably 24th February if monthly

Which is why the next week is critical as to leave on the 24th if you have 4 weeks notice means resigning in the next week

jmo21
21st January 2017, 21:20
Isn't option 5 extremely dodgy?

Just because you are deemed a critical worker doesn't mean you aren't inside IR35 and the HMRC aren't going to come after you.

It's nothing to do with someone's ir35 status, just whether they will let you stay while working through a Ltd.

It'll be interesting to see if other public bodies take tfl's approach.

MPwannadecentincome
22nd January 2017, 22:02
Actually, make that Wednesday 1 March 2017, if you know what's good for you...
If the agency is Hays it is weekly paid, Hays have already written to contractors saying the last date would be 24th March to ensure that the Ltd Co is paid in time.

cojak
23rd January 2017, 07:37
If the agency is Hays it is weekly paid, Hays have already written to contractors saying the last date would be 24th March to ensure that the Ltd Co is paid in time.

Then they'll need to hand in their notice on 24th Feb if they have a one month notice period.

RonBW
23rd January 2017, 07:48
It'll be interesting to see if other public bodies take tfl's approach.

Those that welcome this change probably will - and I think there are quite a few that fall into that category.

eek
23rd January 2017, 08:37
Isn't option 5 extremely dodgy?

Just because you are deemed a critical worker doesn't mean you aren't inside IR35 and the HMRC aren't going to come after you.

I think its more saying that if we deem you as essential to the project we will make a decision on whether you are outside IR35 or not. However unless you are utterly essential we not even going to bother running the questionnaire.

TfLTattle
24th January 2017, 19:54
So TfL sent out an update on Friday, as follows. Notably short on detail so doesn't provide much comfort but looks like they're spooked by the number of contractors jumping ship.

We wrote to you on 23 December outlining changes to HMRC legislation and asking you to work with your manager to choose options about how you are paid.

Since then, we have taken further advice from HMRC and we have reconsidered our approach.

As a result, we are revising the options available and the timescales for choosing and implementing each option.

We’re discussing the options available with managing directors, managers, business leads and resourcing teams with the expectation that they’ll be revised. We will contact your manager soon to confirm these options.

If you’ve already communicated your preferences to your manager, these have been noted. However, if you want to change them once you see the revised options you can do so.

Response date extended
We will advise your manager of the new response date by the end of January. The original deadline of Friday 20 January for a response has been removed.

Implementation date extended
We have also extended the date for changes to become effective. Changes must now be made by Friday 24 March for people paid through Hays and Friday 31 March for people paid through engineering agencies.

Key points

1. A decision is no longer required by Friday 20 January and changes do not need to be made by Friday 17 February.
2. You do not need to leave early. We have until Friday 24 March to implement the changes.
3. The NPL team will discuss options with your business area, review the cost implications and send a further email to your manager with instructions and next steps.

We recognise that there is a degree of uncertainty at this time and the decisions you have to make.

Your agency contact is there to support you. If you have questions or need clarification on any of this, please contact your agency.

cojak
24th January 2017, 20:44
So TfL sent out an update on Friday, as follows. Notably short on detail so doesn't provide much comfort but looks like they're spooked by the number of contractors jumping ship.

We wrote to you on 23 December outlining changes to HMRC legislation and asking you to work with your manager to choose options about how you are paid.

Since then, we have taken further advice from HMRC and we have reconsidered our approach.

As a result, we are revising the options available and the timescales for choosing and implementing each option.

We’re discussing the options available with managing directors, managers, business leads and resourcing teams with the expectation that they’ll be revised. We will contact your manager soon to confirm these options.

If you’ve already communicated your preferences to your manager, these have been noted. However, if you want to change them once you see the revised options you can do so.

Response date extended
We will advise your manager of the new response date by the end of January. The original deadline of Friday 20 January for a response has been removed.

Implementation date extended
We have also extended the date for changes to become effective. Changes must now be made by Friday 24 March for people paid through Hays and Friday 31 March for people paid through engineering agencies.

Key points

1. A decision is no longer required by Friday 20 January and changes do not need to be made by Friday 17 February.
2. You do not need to leave early. We have until Friday 24 March to implement the changes.
3. The NPL team will discuss options with your business area, review the cost implications and send a further email to your manager with instructions and next steps.

We recognise that there is a degree of uncertainty at this time and the decisions you have to make.

Your agency contact is there to support you. If you have questions or need clarification on any of this, please contact your agency.

:laugh:

eek
24th January 2017, 20:49
:laugh:

Keypoint 2 is highly interesting. It implies far more people stated they were planning to leave than TfL expected.

cojak
24th January 2017, 20:49
But don't forget this does Nothing for the retrospective tax threat.

As you were on that bit methinks...

LondonManc
24th January 2017, 20:55
But don't forget this does Nothing for the retrospective tax threat.

As you were on that bit methinks...

Agreed but it's a clear case of tulip hitting fan.

cojak
24th January 2017, 20:56
But I do love that fact that their bolshie 'take or leave it' message must have been met with an equally robust :moon:

:laugh

MarillionFan
24th January 2017, 21:06
But I do love that fact that their bolshie 'take or leave it' message must have been met with an equally robust :moon:

:laugh

Lol. Classic. This hard nosed approach is going to be met with the grim realisation that no-body permie knows anything and it's all run by contractors who are willing to lump it.

eek
24th January 2017, 21:26
But I do love that fact that their bolshie 'take or leave it' message must have been met with an equally robust :moon:

:laugh

And it does seem that all they want to do is delay the inevitable another 5 weeks. Gives TfL a bit of time to find replacements.

I don't really wonder if fear of retrospective investigations of contracts has / is being discussed there - I think this is more two finger salutes. Especially when people were given Christmas to think it over and probably have resigned themselves to leaving and finding new roles...

LondonManc
25th January 2017, 08:07
Lol. Classic. This hard nosed approach is going to be met with the grim realisation that no-body permie knows anything and it's all run by contractors who are willing to lump it.

The permies know stuff. They're now panicking that they'll actually have to do stuff. Don't worry about that!

difficulttimes
25th January 2017, 08:25
Since then, we have taken further advice from HMRC and we have reconsidered our approach.

[/I]

I would love to know what this 'advice' is... considering there has been no guidance given to PS bodies thus far. My take is there has been no conversation prior and since then with HMRC and they are trying to cover their tracks.. idiots.

I agree with LondonManc that the permies would be scared that they have to do some work for a change - that place is proper old school public sector with benefits that are eye-watering... considering the output

LondonManc
25th January 2017, 08:27
I would love to know what this 'advice' is... considering there has been no guidance given to PS bodies thus far. My take is there has been no conversation prior and since then with HMRC and they are trying to cover their tracks.. idiots.

I agree with LondonManc that the permies would be scared that they have to do some work for a change - that place is proper old school public sector with benefits that are eye-watering... considering the output

HMRC potentially keeping them waiting for the hook of the retro-grab. It's another 'kin trap!

Semtex
25th January 2017, 08:35
or all the PS bodies can see their projects and work going tits up that they have escalated to HMRC that this is going to be un workable?

eek
25th January 2017, 08:38
or all the PS bodies can see their projects and work going tits up that they have escalated to HMRC that this is going to be un workable?

:rollin:

MoroccanMole
27th January 2017, 13:18
These emails state that you are expected to make your preferences know to 'your Manager' - a clear inside IR35 indicator.

eek
27th January 2017, 13:46
These emails state that you are expected to make your preferences know to 'your Manager' - a clear inside IR35 indicator.

Manager / project leader its a naming game...

northernladuk
27th January 2017, 14:19
Manager / project leader its a naming game...

Indeed. They can call them what they want. It's what you call them that counts :D

Yorkie62
28th January 2017, 10:19
Indeed. They can call them what they want. It's what you call them that counts :D

'Plebs' is a title most Government officials seems to understand :rollin:

Project Leading, Envisineering, Benchmarking Servent

LondonManc
30th January 2017, 09:07
These emails state that you are expected to make your preferences know to 'your Manager' - a clear inside IR35 indicator.

Could mean Hiring Manager.