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avalon111
12th February 2017, 10:46
I thought of starting a new thread to perhaps provide an indication of the roles being offered in the public sector.

I don't normally work in the PS. I've performed some roles for my own Local Authority in the past, worked in the NHS before the <=£220 cap and ran a huge roll-out at the PPA in Newcastle.

Getting sniffs of roles in the PS from agencies and consultancies have been rare though, principally because my resume isn't registered with any.

I can't claim to be surprised last week to get inquiries about my availability for PS roles. Three-in-a-week for the PS though was tad excessive.

Two of the roles were Security Analyst roles, one of them senior, with The Home Office. The other was a security role with the MOD.

All of them were presented at a reasonable rate; if they were outside. If they weren't then each would redeem less than I've seen on a daily rate for two decades.

So my first question with all three was - would the working arrangements and proposed contract see myself, working for my Company, placed outside IR35 if the HMRC tool was used as the assessment mechanism?

In each case, although the existence and complexities of IR35 were acknowledged, no-one was able to say 'yes' or 'no'. There was a stated desire passed to me from the client to see them being classed as 'outside', but they simply couldn't commit to it.

So all three roles, particularly the senior one, are on-hold for me (and apparently every other candidate contacted). Until the client can determine the status of the role, it can't attract candidates to the role.

So, anyone else been approached for PS roles?

northernladuk
12th February 2017, 11:20
Looking at the other threads there are plenty of people being approached and its hardly surprising with the number of people leaving. Not sure where this thread is going though? Jobserve is a good indicator of the roles available surely.

NHS1979
12th February 2017, 11:21
As I exit out of my current ps role (to break the link with Outside-IR35 work, if I end up only getting Inside-IR35 work in future) I am also already getting increased approaches for other PS roles. All in my field (NHS senior management, project/programme management etc).

The thing that strikes me already is a) the agencies offering the roles do so via juniors who know little about IR35, b) the rates have not risen to account for IR35, and c) none of the roles have been qualified as to IR35 status. As you'd expect I've said no to any of them unless I get firmer answers on how they've been qualified, and how they would work.

Maybe the calls will get more intelligent in April or May...

malvolio
12th February 2017, 11:49
Maybe the calls will get more intelligent in April or May...

:rollin:


As for the OP's question, it will all depend on whether or not you are implementing and applying existing rules on security or developing a new regime, and as a manpower replacement or as an addition to the organisation's workforce. If the latter pair you may be outside, any other combination will probably put you inside. Until the client's start advertising with a status indicator, nobody is going to be sure.

DaveB
12th February 2017, 13:51
I get regular calls about PS roles as I've done a lot in the past. My standard response is now :

"Thanks, I would normally be interested but I'm avoiding the Public Sector for the foreseeable future due to the changes in taxation and payment rules related to IR35."

b r
12th February 2017, 15:38
Maybe the calls will get more intelligent in April or May...

Yep, this has been my experience as my private sector contract ended a couple of weeks ago, and now looking.

avalon111
12th February 2017, 16:16
Looking at the other threads there are plenty of people being approached and its hardly surprising with the number of people leaving. Not sure where this thread is going though? Jobserve is a good indicator of the roles available surely.

One possible route such a thread might take (not necessarily mine) is to be able to gauge the level of comprehension of the new rules among both recruiters and the clients.

My rather unscientific contribution from just last week suggests that knowledge that IR35 does rather complicate matters has seeped through...but neither the agencies or clients have a clue how to address it.

In time I would imagine the work of folk like Andy Hallett will seep into the consciousness of both contractors and agencies. But who will educate the end-clients? If it's to be the agencies, then they will need the initial confidence in what they know of IR35 to be able contemplate that. It certainly won't be HMRC, as they seem as disconnected from client circumstances as could be - if they weren't they wouldn't have proposed the legislation in the first place.

I reckon it will be a gigantic car crash. It will take until May or June to come-to-light. One simple consequence is that every Minister, Under Secretary and his dog is going to blame The Treasury and Philip Hammond for any Brexit-related issues, citing 'can't get the contractors'. That excuse will be used even when it's not valid, and it will never get tired. The Treasury can't easily blame HMRC as it's The Treasury that presents The Budget and is therefore responsible for ensuring the measures in The Budget are risk-free.

I don't know much about the inner workings of central government, but I do know that a chance by Ministry's to bash The Treasury are few-and-far-between, and when they come up, no-one will skip their chance.

IR35 gives all of the departments a fine chance to bash, and keep bashing - meaning the DoFE, DWP, HO, MOD, FCO and MoJ will take huge pleasure in pointing the finger at Hammond (even in Cabinet meetings) and saying 'it woz 'im!'

None of this will have any positive impact on getting contractors addressed or even IR35 rescinded. The impression I'm given from my contacts is that the question being asked is 'why do it now?' with Brexit and GDPR coming-up, rather than 'what a shame for our contractors.'

Everyone who can will exploit IR35 for its worth will do so, but that will be almost exclusively confined to Treasury/Chancellor-of-The Exchequer-bashing

MrStu
13th February 2017, 20:24
I'm exiting my current public sector contract towards the end of March, and I'm looking for a new private sector contract now. I've not been approacted for any public sector roles, although I have seen a few which are obviously public sector, but not stated as such, and one today that listed a PAYE day rate.

I'm also getting a lot of calls about permie work, which is pretty frustrating.