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notahappybunny
15th February 2017, 11:34
Hi everybody.

Very concerned about this so hope you don't mind a couple of newbie questions. (I have looked at other threads already but can't find the answers so apologies if already covered).

I am a contractor mainly in the Public sector via a Ltd company but it is almost certain I will be moving regardless whether my current contract, 4 months (originally 3 months, extended to 6 and already mooted to be extended again) is, eventually, ruled inside or outside of IR35.

Q.1. Is there a standard format to issuing a 28 day notice and on what basis do you serve it i.e. planned change of current contract not acceptable?

Q.2. Who would be responsible for insurances, liabilities etc should I go within IR35 post April 5th but via Ltd co (technically an employee without the benefits of holiday pay, sick pay etc?)

Many thanks in advance.

cojak
15th February 2017, 12:57
Hi everybody.

Very concerned about this so hope you don't mind a couple of newbie questions. (I have looked at other threads already but can't find the answers so apologies if already covered).

I am a contractor mainly in the Public sector via a Ltd company but it is almost certain I will be moving regardless whether my current contract, 4 months (originally 3 months, extended to 6 and already mooted to be extended again) is, eventually, ruled inside or outside of IR35.

Q.1. Is there a standard format to issuing a 28 day notice and on what basis do you serve it i.e. planned change of current contract not acceptable?

Q.2. Who would be responsible for insurances, liabilities etc should I go within IR35 post April 5th but via Ltd co (technically an employee without the benefits of holiday pay, sick pay etc?)

Many thanks in advance.

1 - No standard format, just and email to the agent that states that you are terminating your contract on X date as per your contract.

2 - I'm not sure about this. Your new company (the umbrella you work for) would be liable, but I'm not sure how they would pass liability. It will depend on the new contract - my contracts explicitly state a requirement for insurance.

notahappybunny
15th February 2017, 13:14
1 - No standard format, just and email to the agent that states that you are terminating your contract on X date as per your contract.

2 - I'm not sure about this. Your new company (the umbrella you work for) would be liable, but I'm not sure how they would pass liability. It will depend on the new contract - my contracts explicitly state a requirement for insurance.

Many thanks for the quick reply

1. - Simple enough thanks.

2 - For a variety of reasons the only way I would work inside IR35 would be through the Ltd Co with a considerable rate uplift. Umbrella is a 100% No and, as I receive a pension, so is direct employment.


As an aside I doubt I shall continue to work 150 miles away from home, stay in accommodation 3 nights a week, be financially worse off and be treated like an employee with none of the benefits nor able to claim expenses.

LondonManc
15th February 2017, 13:17
Many thanks for the quick reply

1. - Simple enough thanks.

2 - For a variety of reasons the only way I would work inside IR35 would be through the Ltd Co with a considerable rate uplift. Umbrella is a 100% No and, as I receive a pension, so is direct employment.


As an aside I doubt I shall continue to work 150 miles away from home, stay in accommodation 3 nights a week, be financially worse off and be treated like an employee with none of the benefits nor able to claim expenses.

You need to confirm the grounds on which you'll stay:

1/ The contract is confirmed as outside IR35 by the hiring PS department
2/ The contact is non confirmed as outside IR35; you'd need a rate increase and expenses covered.

Take it or leave it on their behalf. Rather than serve notice, see what they can come up with on the latter.

notahappybunny
15th February 2017, 13:26
You need to confirm the grounds on which you'll stay:

1/ The contract is confirmed as outside IR35 by the hiring PS department
2/ The contact is non confirmed as outside IR35; you'd need a rate increase and expenses covered.

Take it or leave it on their behalf. Rather than serve notice, see what they can come up with on the latter.

I can see what you are getting at however I worry about staying with the same PS and agency post April 5th even in an amended / extended contract and am wondering whether a break from both would be the wisest move regardless of the IR35 ruling.

LondonManc
15th February 2017, 13:32
I can see what you are getting at however I worry about staying with the same PS and agency post April 5th even in an amended / extended contract and am wondering whether a break from both would be the wisest move regardless of the IR35 ruling.

Yes, the larger concern would be the retrospective tax grab if you've been at the PS department a while. New department, new agency would be best and it's a whole new negotiation. The more contractors that leave, the better really because it shows how one idiot can bring the whole public sector into chaos with them even being an MP.

notahappybunny
24th February 2017, 11:55
What a shame..........28 day notice issued today.:ohwell

northernladuk
24th February 2017, 11:57
Working days or calendar days?

notahappybunny
24th February 2017, 12:04
Working days or calendar days?

"If the Service Provider wishes to terminate the Agreement 28 days’ notice
must be given, in writing........."

Have been guaranteed all monies paid by 5th April so not working past 31st March either way....Agency peeved with PSB's decision to rule inside IR35 not mine to leave (line manager in shock).

One door closes etc etc

rob s
24th February 2017, 12:57
..... (line manager in shock).....

If they think it's bad now, wait till they see the cost of someone with half your experience from a big consulting co.

northernladuk
24th February 2017, 13:22
If they think it's bad now, wait till they see the cost of someone with half your experience from a big consulting co.

PC is available from the 1st you know.

notahappybunny
24th February 2017, 13:28
PC is available from the 1st you know.

?:confused:

eek
24th February 2017, 13:32
If they think it's bad now, wait till they see the cost of someone with half your experience from a big consulting co.

That's irrelevant. The Public sector needs to learn the hard way....

bobspud
24th February 2017, 13:43
That's irrelevant. The Public sector needs to learn the hard way....

They don't need to learn. They are already well aware that the big four screw the pooch.

I know a program that is pooing itself at the moment as they are about to get audited and are wondering:

a) where all their money went
b) what the toe rags produced for that money

Answer is they have been mugged...

eek
24th February 2017, 14:02
They don't need to learn. They are already well aware that the big four screw the pooch.

I know a program that is pooing itself at the moment as they are about to get audited and are wondering:

a) where all their money went
b) what the toe rags produced for that money

Answer is they have been mugged...

That's not the lesson they need to learn.

The lesson they need to learn is that if you wants things to be delivered you need to pay the market rate and that means IT people will need to be paid far more than other workers so you better redesign your pay scales...

And that requires a lot of mugging by the big 4 consultancies before it dawns on them that they can't outsource their projects...

bobspud
24th February 2017, 14:20
That's not the lesson they need to learn.

The lesson they need to learn is that if you wants things to be delivered you need to pay the market rate and that means IT people will need to be paid far more than other workers so you better redesign your pay scales...

And that requires a lot of mugging by the big 4 consultancies before it dawns on them that they can't outsource their projects...

All paying them well achieves is getting well paid people that have no motivation to leave. Thats why contractors are so in valuable to them. We actually like to leave at the end of a gig. I was chatting to one of the guys where I am and he said do you realise for someone that has never been one, you have a very successful Civil Service career...


:suicide:

hollyblue
24th February 2017, 20:30
Yes, the larger concern would be the retrospective tax grab if you've been at the PS department a while. New department, new agency would be best and it's a whole new negotiation. The more contractors that leave, the better really because it shows how one idiot can bring the whole public sector into chaos with them even being an MP.

In respect of the retrospective tax grab, I have been in my current contract since 15th Nov. If I were to stay and accept inside IR35 and HMRC say I need to pay tax back to 15th Nov, would they continue to look into my contracts prior to this one. I am aware that they can go back 6 yrs.

I suppose what I'm saying is, is looking back to the start date of your current contract likely to be a gateway to a full investigation for last 6 years?

eek
24th February 2017, 20:53
In respect of the retrospective tax grab, I have been in my current contract since 15th Nov. If I were to stay and accept inside IR35 and HMRC say I need to pay tax back to 15th Nov, would they continue to look into my contracts prior to this one. I am aware that they can go back 6 yrs.

I suppose what I'm saying is, is looking back to the start date of your current contract likely to be a gateway to a full investigation for last 6 years?

Pass - truthful answer is that nobody knows.

notahappybunny
1st March 2017, 18:49
Little update:

Line manager is "stressed" to say the least so PSB (Trust) has now agreed to use the QDOS tool and compare with my results if I do it also. Anything to be concerned about or consider?

Current contract with this PSB started Nov, after voluntarily having a few months off, and currently due to end Mid May.

northernladuk
1st March 2017, 18:51
Little update:

Line manager is "stressed" to say the least so PSB (Trust) has now agreed to use the QDOS tool and compare with my results if I do it also. Anything to be concerned about or consider?.

Besides the fact that you are totally inside you mean? :eyes:

notahappybunny
1st March 2017, 18:53
Besides the fact that you are totally inside you mean? :eyes:

Where do you get that from?

northernladuk
1st March 2017, 19:12
Where do you get that from?

The fact you think you've got a line manager.

notahappybunny
1st March 2017, 19:23
The fact you think you've got a line manager.

Wrong phrase then sorry, the person that I directly liaise with on behalf of the Trust.

northernladuk
1st March 2017, 19:28
Wrong phrase then sorry, the person that I directly liaise with on behalf of the Trust.

I might being pedantic but if you can't think like a contractor/business then how can expect to be treated like one. No amount of tests/contracts/WPs can save you if you have a permie mentality.

notahappybunny
1st March 2017, 19:34
I might being pedantic but if you can't think like a contractor/business then how can expect to be treated like one. No amount of tests/contracts/WPs can save you if you have a permie mentality.

Bit harsh on a newbie on the forum I think but thanks for the critique anyway....if it comes down to the subtle use of words then quite honestly I shan't bother to ask for advice again.... sorry to have troubled you.

Andy Hallett
1st March 2017, 19:36
Bit harsh on a newbie on the forum I think but thanks for the critique anyway....if it comes down to the subtle use of words then quite honestly I shan't bother to ask for advice again.... sorry to have troubled you.

NLUK has a valid point, just expressed in a very gruff way.

northernladuk
1st March 2017, 19:38
Bit harsh on a newbie on the forum I think but thanks for the critique anyway....if it comes down to the subtle use of words then quite honestly I shan't bother to ask for advice again.... sorry to have troubled you.

Newbie to forum but not a newbie contractor I'd guess?

No trouble snowflake. Always happy to help.

notahappybunny
1st March 2017, 19:44
Newbie to forum but not a newbie contractor I'd guess?

No trouble snowflake. Always happy to help.

Ah bless you sweetie....stay well won't you.

Bye everybody and thanks to those that actually try to help other in a polite manner. :wave:

LondonManc
1st March 2017, 19:46
Bit harsh on a newbie on the forum I think but thanks for the critique anyway....if it comes down to the subtle use of words then quite honestly I shan't bother to ask for advice again.... sorry to have troubled you.

It's the sort of mentality that can get you caught though; saying manager is one thing - it generally means hiring manager or client manager - but line manager infers line management and permiedom.

You'll have realised that NLUK is a grumpy pedant but has the best intentions to educate - that's why he's in IT and not teaching. He has all the bedside manners of Sweeney Todd.