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BingoMan
14th March 2017, 11:08
A few days ago I used the IR35 ESS Tool and got an Outside IR35 decision.

Today, I can't get a single permutation of responses that results in an outside IR35 decision.

Maybe the software is broken.

Maybe not. Is anyone out there able to provide a set of IR35 ESS Tool responses that results in an Outside IR35 decision?

Patrick@Intouch
14th March 2017, 12:11
Hello,

I've just tried a scenario and said that substitution happened an that the contracting company paid the substitute and that gave an outside determination. I also ran it under the assumption that substitution hadn't happened but would be approved if the substitute had the same skills, qualifications etc... and that also gave a determination of outside.

MrMarkyMark
14th March 2017, 12:14
A few days ago I used the IR35 ESS Tool and got an Outside IR35 decision.

Today, I can't get a single permutation of responses that results in an outside IR35 decision.

Maybe the software is broken.

Maybe not. Is anyone out there able to provide a set of IR35 ESS Tool responses that results in an Outside IR35 decision?

A sort of IR35 ESS tool "Bingo", if you like :laugh

BingoMan
14th March 2017, 12:17
and that also gave a determination of outside.

I've, err, been an idiot. I was misinterpreting the final page. You wouldn't believe the number of permutations I ran through trying to get a different final page. Idiot.

northernladuk
14th March 2017, 12:21
Maybe not. Is anyone out there able to provide a set of IR35 ESS Tool responses that results in an Outside IR35 decision?

Why does that matter? You put in the facts of your situation and there is the result? It's not a matter of fudging to get what you want. Remember also it's the client that carries it out...

Or are you just sanity checking the tool as it doesn't look like it's possible to be outside?

Not being rude but do you know enough about IR35 to understand what an outside gig would look like to be able to put the right answers in?

BingoMan
14th March 2017, 12:30
Or are you just sanity checking the tool as it doesn't look like it's possible to be outside?

Not being rude but do you know enough about IR35 to understand what an outside gig would look like to be able to put the right answers in?

Sorry for wasting your time - I was mis-interpreting the outcome. I'd indicated that I employ others, have freedom of workplace and working hours - but to my eye the result appeared to indicate I was "caught".

To be honest, it was the phrase that said "The worker should pay tax and National Insurance as a self-employed person" that threw me. I'm employed through my own Ltd Company - so treating myself as self-employed seem to be a changed status.

northernladuk
14th March 2017, 12:31
Sorry for wasting your time - I was mis-interpreting the outcome. I'd indicated that I employ others, have freedom of workplace and working hours - but to my eye the result appeared to indicate I was "caught".

To be honest, it was the phrase that said "The worker should pay tax and National Insurance as a self-employed person" that threw me. I'm employed through my own Ltd Company - so treating myself as self-employed seem to be a changed status.

Not technically you aren't. You are a director of your LTD.


Being a director does not, of itself, make that person an employee of the company. A directorship is an office, not necessarily an employment. If, however, the company enters into a service contract with the director, the terms of which make the director an employee under the usual common law test, then the director becomes an employee. Many company directors are in this position. In these circumstances, relevant aspects of employment law (including statutory protection as to unfair dismissal and redundancy) apply in addition to the law relating to directors.

BingoMan
14th March 2017, 12:45
Not technically you aren't. You are a director of your LTD.

Yes - that's what I should have put. I'm not new to this. I'll blame the oversight on the amount of adrenaline still swooshing around my body after mistakenly fearing having to back-pay 17 years of PAYE.

northernladuk
14th March 2017, 12:50
Yes - that's what I should have put. I'm not new to this. I'll blame the oversight on the amount of adrenaline still swooshing around my body after mistakenly fearing having to back-pay 17 years of PAYE.

Lol. After that rush the rest of the day will be a breeze. Like having the world's biggest poo.

barrydidit
14th March 2017, 16:04
Lol. After that rush the rest of the day will be a breeze. Like having the world's biggest poo.

That can actually result in quite a stressful time, especially in a new client's traps. Erm...apparently... :igmc:

LondonManc
14th March 2017, 16:05
Lol. After that rush the rest of the day will be a breeze. Like having the world's biggest poo.

Greenlake, don't you dare.