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Bheleu
14th March 2017, 15:39
Just been talking to some agents I have had the following two cases described to me for working for a public body

1. ITs part of a fixed price contract, therefore its not subject to IR35
2. Its working through a supplier to a public body, ie the suppler is supplying a service and I would be working for through that supplier.

Theses are the only details that I have for two different possible contracts.

I am not an expert at IR35, but if it was that easy to avoid using either of these two methods, it would have been tried already, I smell a rat.

Any advice please ? I known the devil is in the detail

northernladuk
14th March 2017, 15:44
But how will you be engaged? You will be on a daily rate sitting on a seat doing the same as permies and can't substitute etc?

Have they explicity told you the gig will be in or outside IR35 and how have they come to that determination? It still applies to any gig as it has up to now, just might be out of scope of the legislation. Have you asked them directly about the recent legislation? If they start umming and ahhing be very careful.

MrMarkyMark
14th March 2017, 15:47
Do you mean Fixed Term Contract, rather than fixed price?

LondonManc
14th March 2017, 15:54
Do you mean Fixed Term Contract, rather than fixed price?

To me, it reads as fixed price - that's what puts it outside IR35. As we know, that can be a massive can of worms if you don't nail the analysis and scope.

FTC would just be the PSB acting as the umbrella as well.

As NLUK says, what's your involvement? Are you fixed price to the consultancy?

MrMarkyMark
14th March 2017, 15:56
To me, it reads as fixed price - that's what puts it outside IR35. As we know, that can be a massive can of worms if you don't nail the analysis and scope.

FTC would just be the PSB acting as the umbrella as well.

As NLUK says, what's your involvement? Are you fixed price to the consultancy?

OPs Thread Title:-

Working through supplier to a public service/fix term contract

Fix termed contracts are also outside IR35.

northernladuk
14th March 2017, 15:57
To me, it reads as fixed price - that's what puts it outside IR35. As we know, that can be a massive can of worms if you don't nail the analysis and scope.

FTC would just be the PSB acting as the umbrella as well.

As NLUK says, what's your involvement? Are you fixed price to the consultancy?

That's how I read it, possibly via Gcloud and the like so it's out of scope of the legislation but surely IR35 is still a consideration between him and the consultancy. It's just a private sector gig so normal gotchas apply?

Good spot with the title though, missed that.

MrMarkyMark
14th March 2017, 15:58
That's how I read it, possibly via Gcloud and the like so it's out of scope of the legislation but surely IR35 is still a consideration between him and the consultancy. It's just a private sector gig so normal gotchas apply?

Good spot with the title though, missed that.

There's two actual scenarios in discussion here :).

LondonManc
14th March 2017, 16:08
Ah, so he's potentially on an FTC as part of a larger fixed price project. Good spot Mark.

That would make sense if the supplier is ring-fencing costs. However, I'd be very careful about the scope of my deliverables and raising anything that doesn't look right asap (that's a working practices cautionary rather than an IR35 cautionary).

A standard contract and working practices review should suffice then?

northernladuk
14th March 2017, 17:16
FTCs are not common in the private sector are they so would like the OP to clarify.

MrMarkyMark
14th March 2017, 17:19
FTCs are not common in the private sector are they so would like the OP to clarify.

The OP suggests they are both Public sector roles...

LondonManc
14th March 2017, 17:19
FTCs are not common in the private sector are they so would like the OP to clarify.

Unless the consultancy figures that the only way that they can get the calibre of contractors required for PS roles (who the client ultimately is) is via an FTC to put them outside.

gables
14th March 2017, 17:53
Unless the consultancy figures that the only way that they can get the calibre of contractors required for PS roles (who the client ultimately is) is via an FTC to put them outside.

But isn't an FTC contract subject to full PAYE? Obviously you'd save on the running costs of a LTD. The FTC roles I've seen advertised have been essentially permie jobs including pensions but just for a fixed period.

northernladuk
14th March 2017, 18:38
But isn't an FTC contract subject to full PAYE? Obviously you'd save on the running costs of a LTD. The FTC roles I've seen advertised have been essentially permie jobs including pensions but just for a fixed period.

Exactly..... More or less.

LondonManc
14th March 2017, 18:46
But isn't an FTC contract subject to full PAYE? Obviously you'd save on the running costs of a LTD. The FTC roles I've seen advertised have been essentially permie jobs including pensions but just for a fixed period.

Yes, which is what confused me with fixed term versus fixed price.

Bheleu
15th March 2017, 05:51
Yes, which is what confused me with fixed term versus fixed price.

Thanks everybody at least I known the best response to make now