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TheOmegaMan
17th November 2006, 09:53
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6155998.stm

Fukwit

Shimano105
17th November 2006, 09:58
I propose more immigration... John Reid... period of consultation etc.

AtW
17th November 2006, 10:02
Nothing suprising - at the time of .CON bust few wanted to enter IT courses because situation was so dire and with 3 year lag now is the time this decision is felt by the industry which loves so much fresh grads who would work long hour for sh1t pay for the sake of 2 years exp, and best of all every new year new grad can be found.

IT is certainly no longer a field where career is worth pursueing unless you love computers that much, but then again if that's the case then it is smarter to become a plumber or carpenter, work locally for cash in hand, have some physical exercises on fresh air, shag bored housewifes and do computer programming as hobby in the evening while zipping Bollinger Blanc de Noirs Vieilles Vignes Francaises

bobhope
17th November 2006, 10:13
So that should mean an upward pressure on rates?

DimPrawn
17th November 2006, 10:22
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6155998.stm


Here we go!

1. Industry declares "skill crisis"
2. Government appoint minister of IT
3. Government propose solution. Immigration.
4. Government dish out 1,000,000 work permits, mostly to India.
5. Big companies snap them up wholesale.
6. Lots of young, naive, idiots arrive in the UK and work for £6/hr
7. House prices triple!!!!!

:banana:

:cool1:

Ardesco
17th November 2006, 10:30
To me the fact it comes from the BCS means it is probably half truths and wild assumptions.

I actually worked for a test manager who was high up in the BCS and had himself and ISEB practitioners once. He was without doubt the most useless person I have ever met in the world. He knew nothing useful, enthused about being a geek and was more interested in pushing the BCS to everybody around him than he was actually doing his job. He would do such amazing things as test a product that was written specifically for IE (standard corporate build) in Firefox and then raise showstoppers because it didn't work properly (It is written specifically for IE because corp build does not have firefox and it should not be installed an any corp machine and it says this in spec and release notes moron...). In the end they sacked him 2 months into his job for gross incompetance.

If all BCS people are like this my advice is steer well clear and ignore what they say as they obviously don't have a clue...

Cliphead
17th November 2006, 10:34
IT is certainly no longer a field where career is worth pursueing unless you love computers that much, but then again if that's the case then it is smarter to become a plumber or carpenter, work locally for cash in hand, have some physical exercises on fresh air, shag bored housewifes and do computer programming as hobby in the evening while zipping Bollinger Blanc de Noirs Vieilles Vignes Francaises

I've never had a career in IT, I'm a musician who does contracting as a hobby in between gigs. Lots of bored housewives if that's yer thing.

BobTheCrate
17th November 2006, 11:04
Computer skills are essential across a whole range of disciplines - everything from pharmaceuticals through to modern transportation systems depend on properly skilled IT specialists.
Well DHL last year (or year before) moved its entire European data centre to Prague making a substantial volume of 'skilled IT redundancies'. Most if not all the development work has been performed in Kuala Lumpur for a number of years now. So what other logistics outfits are recruiting ?

Ans : None.

properly skilled IT specialists ay ?

Oh I know. Someone who has got 10 years + commercial experience of .net, Java II, C++, XML, Oracle, SAP, some other piece of application software that no bugger has ever heard of, business analysis, graphical design with proven ability to integrate all the aformentioned technologies at molecular or sub molecular level. And graduated from University no more than 2 years ago. Also is unlikely to physically flatten some HR idiot who hasn't a clue about anything or anyone. And that's just to be considered for interview.

Salary expectation : £16k to £25k

sasguru
17th November 2006, 11:09
Well what do guys expect if techies who know something don't move into management? The problem is few techies can deal with the politics of the corporate world, preferring instead to stick to technical stuff. That's fair enough but you can hardly complain if the management vacuum is then filled by numpties. The place to be is on the interface between business and technology. Those who can genuinely straddle both worlds can easily make 6 figures as a permy, which beats contracting.

Forumbore
17th November 2006, 11:21
Well what do guys expect if techies who know something don't move into management? The problem is few techies can deal with the politics of the corporate world, preferring instead to stick to technical stuff. That's fair enough but you can hardly complain if the management vacuum is then filled by numpties. The place to be is on the interface between business and technology. Those who can genuinely straddle both worlds can easily make 6 figures as a permy, which beats contracting.

I work for a large UK retailer and there is hardly an IT worker to be seen here in the UK as all the systems have been otsourced to India. It is no wonder few people wish to move in to IT when all they hear is that most companies are looking to offshore their IT.

Where are these organisations that are so desperatly short of IT workers anyway?

wendigo100
17th November 2006, 11:29
To me the fact it comes from the BCS means it is probably half truths and wild assumptionsBCS = The Professional Elite, according to them. I left because I worked in the real world.

chicane
17th November 2006, 11:32
I'd suggest that the BCS seems to be getting confused between the volume of IT people and the volume of competent/experienced IT people, which is somewhat bizarre given the position they occupy within the industry.

If there was a genuine shortage of IT workers in the UK, there'd be a greater supply of jobs than people to apply for those jobs, which to me doesn't seem to be the case (except perhaps in highly specialised sectors of the IT industry).

sasguru
17th November 2006, 11:47
Every BCS member I've worked with has been a plonker ...

bogeyman
17th November 2006, 12:02
So why are young people in the UK choosing not to study IT, one of the more lucrative UK industries?

Professor Shadbolt said it was partly due to poor teaching and called for a thorough review of the way in which it is taught in schools

Oh, really?

Maybe it's because they can see that there is no point wasting time and effort on building a career in IT only to see your job sent to India or done for peanuts by immigrants.

Ardesco
17th November 2006, 12:02
Every BCS member I've worked with has been a plonker ...

Well it's not know as the Boring Cnuts Society for nothing :banana:

Lucy
17th November 2006, 12:05
...done for peanuts by immigrants.

Or done by peanuts for immigrants

Tonic
17th November 2006, 12:06
Nothing suprising - at the time of .CON bust few wanted to enter IT courses because situation was so dire and with 3 year lag now is the time this decision is felt by the industry which loves so much fresh grads who would work long hour for sh1t pay for the sake of 2 years exp, and best of all every new year new grad can be found.

IT is certainly no longer a field where career is worth pursueing unless you love computers that much, but then again if that's the case then it is smarter to become a plumber or carpenter, work locally for cash in hand, have some physical exercises on fresh air, shag bored housewifes and do computer programming as hobby in the evening while zipping Bollinger Blanc de Noirs Vieilles Vignes Francaises

I beg to differ, you need experiance for sure. But i didnt qualify from Uni, and My pay is pretty outstanding in context of general work. But you need a genuine love or drive to do it.. If you aint got zip, you wont get zip.

Hart-floot
17th November 2006, 12:08
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6155998.stm

"He said he feared that any shortfall in skilled IT professionals in the UK would lead to a loss of highly paid jobs to the emerging economies of India and China


Fukwit

Makes you wonder what the BCS have been doing for the past 6 years :mad:

There is no future in just programming in this country anymore, the outsourcers & ftv's have seen to that.

In my experience, more on the business IT side, most newbie grad's in the company i currently contract with (City based Finance co) seem to do a Business Studies course with one or two modules in IT :eek: :eek: The word 'Array' is not in their vocabulary!

Only the Business Analysis, system design & testing plus the day-to-day management of the outsourcers is kept in London IT office. Everything else is outsourced directly or indirectly to India :(

ImNotFromIndia
17th November 2006, 12:25
So that should mean an upward pressure on rates?

No. more Indian & Chinese coming over for the unfilled posts. :mad:

realityhack
17th November 2006, 13:02
Every BCS member I've worked with has been a plonker ...

I can testify to that - I have a "senior" (read: getting caught up in the BS politics and loving it) developer who's desperately appliying for membership. :rolleyes:

Ardesco
17th November 2006, 13:30
He must be utter rubbish, they were begging for members last I heard....

doug_walters
17th November 2006, 14:44
Prof Shadbolt said there was increasing demand but decreasing supply of graduates in computer science http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6155998.stm
hmmm, presumably not a Grauniad reader, especially not as recently as August 14th 2006:


Graduates with degrees in computer science had the highest unemployment rate, with nearly 11% thought to be not working or studying http://money.guardian.co.uk/work/story/0,,1844427,00.html

TW*T

Lockhouse
17th November 2006, 16:17
I thank yew!

Tonic
17th November 2006, 16:34
hmmm, presumably not a Grauniad reader, especially not as recently as August 14th 2006:



TW*T

It's because they are useless... They come from UNI knowing next to nothing.. A project you need to do in a Year at Uni, is a two week job in real life.. then move on to somethign else... Uni education is rubbish, buy some proper books from Borders and learn proper stuff.


( bigoted view, but provocative )

Sysman
17th November 2006, 16:35
BCS == IET (IEE that was) == Ivory Towers full of academics with no relation to the real world at all...

Don't forget the double barrelled names, plummy accents and bow ties.

MrsGoof
17th November 2006, 16:47
I'll tell ya we are all doomed read this (http://www.presshere.com/html/pw8102.htm). I'm sure our resident lizzard can appeciate how this technology will send us all to the unemployment queue.

Suddenly, programming languages seem a little irrelevant since this system will chomp out bug-free programs on receipt of a program design. Of course, in order that people understand the programs produced, they are listed in Basic

The design of The Last One allows it to be run on almost any computer from an HP 41C to, presumably, the biggest Cray. David does all his development work on an Ohio C3C with 96k memory, two terminals, a 23Mb hard Winchester disk - shortly to be up-graded to 74Mb - and twin 8in floppies for security purposes.

At the moment, he is concentrating his efforts on getting the system running on a PET both disk- and tape-based, and under CP/M. Within a matter of months the current version of the system should be available for all the popular machines. Of course, cassette and floppy based systems wonÕt run quite as quickly as the Ohio system but even then, the speed will be many many times faster than hand coding.

DimPrawn
17th November 2006, 16:51
and twin 8in floppies.

Seen that vid. Very disturbing. :eek:

threaded
17th November 2006, 21:26
Ask one of these new "computer science" graduates what they think of Dr. Knuths work. Don't be surprised by the blank looks.

A good one for a laugh, if they go on about enterprise applications: ask them to discuss the application of Markov chains...

The reason there is a lack of decent computer science graduates is plain to see, the courses are crap, and the output is poor: mainly due to the quality of the educators.

GIGO is what they used to call it when I were a lad.

Now if they were going to replace some New Lie ministers and senior uncivil servants with FTVs that may be a good start.

AtW
17th November 2006, 22:18
I hope you will save us from doom before it's too late threaded...

mcquiggd
17th November 2006, 22:49
To paraphrase an earlier post... the government looks at the market locally, then, encouraged by donors from 'big business', seeks a solution globally...

Imagine if we were in a position to say.. 'there are a lack of skilled politicians in the UK, therefore, we should immediately encourage people from other countries who claim to be qualified to move here and compete with an MP, and if you don't select them expect to pay out under the 'human rights' legislation.

AtW
17th November 2006, 23:04
there are a lack of skilled politicians in the UK, therefore, we should immediately encourage people from other countries

I may put up myself for General Election in a decade or so...

threaded
19th November 2006, 15:03
I can remember the terror we all felt when it was announced...

Not.
I too remember laughing out loud, also realising that if even the BBC was taken in by that obvious nonsense there was lots of potential in IT consulting.

cojak
19th November 2006, 15:41
And wunnerful dinners that no one in their right mind would want to attend.

My sister went to a BCS dinner a couple of weeks ago & was bored shitless...

Food was ok though...

Wouldn't bother with 'em.

Went to the itSMF conference last week where people were still getting sh1tfaced and dancing on tables at 2.00am.

Some delegates didn't even bother going to bed, just packed their bags and went home drunk (trains are great modes of transport...).

Food was good and there was as much wine as you could consume (which was needed as G&T's were over £6 a go :eek: - they'll be cheaper next year as it's back to Brighton).

Oh, and the conference itself was pretty good too...