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worzelGummidge
2nd May 2017, 19:14
Brexit - Where everyone is going:
Bank of America Dublin and Frankfurt
Goldman Sachs Frankfurt
JPMorgan Chase Dublin or Frankfurt
UBS Frankfurt
HSBC Paris. lol. (No really). Yes I know that they are all here.
Barclays Dublin
Standard Chartered Dublin or Frankfurt
Citigroup Frankfurt
Morgan Stanley Dublin or Frankfurt or New York
Daiwa Dublin or Frankfurt
Lloyds Banking Group Berlin
Credit Suisse Dublin
Bank of China Dublin
Sumitomo Mitsui Dublin
Mitsubishi UFJ Amsterdam
Mizuho Dublin or Amsterdam

Reference: Brexit: Dublin is set to gain big time as banks relocate from UK, will FinTech be a winner or loser? – Irish Tech News (http://irishtechnews.ie/brexit-dublin-is-set-to-gain-big-time-as-banks-relocate-from-uk-will-fintech-be-a-winner-or-loser/)

squarepeg
2nd May 2017, 19:39
Brexit - Where everyone is going:
Bank of America Dublin and Frankfurt
Goldman Sachs Frankfurt
JPMorgan Chase Dublin or Frankfurt
UBS Frankfurt
HSBC Paris. lol. (No really). Yes I know that they are all here.
Barclays Dublin
Standard Chartered Dublin or Frankfurt
Citigroup Frankfurt
Morgan Stanley Dublin or Frankfurt or New York
Daiwa Dublin or Frankfurt
Lloyds Banking Group Berlin
Credit Suisse Dublin
Bank of China Dublin
Sumitomo Mitsui Dublin
Mitsubishi UFJ Amsterdam
Mizuho Dublin or Amsterdam

Reference: Brexit: Dublin is set to gain big time as banks relocate from UK, will FinTech be a winner or loser? – Irish Tech News (http://irishtechnews.ie/brexit-dublin-is-set-to-gain-big-time-as-banks-relocate-from-uk-will-fintech-be-a-winner-or-loser/)

They are not going. They are opening/expanding EU offices, but they are not closing their UK operations.

_V_
2nd May 2017, 20:00
I'm going to Benidorm for two weeks.

northernladyuk
2nd May 2017, 20:10
They are not going. They are opening/expanding EU offices, but they are not closing their UK operations.

That's the spirit!

_V_
2nd May 2017, 20:24
Thus proving Brexit is good for the EU as it is the UK.

:happy

darmstadt
2nd May 2017, 20:36
They are not going. They are opening/expanding EU offices, but they are not closing their UK operations.

I believe you but the real questions to be asked are, how do you know and exactly how important and how large will the UK operations be?

diseasex
3rd May 2017, 08:51
Just checking, none of the jobs in frankfurt are in english :S and theres LOADS

sal
3rd May 2017, 10:21
They are not going. They are opening/expanding EU offices, but they are not closing their UK operations.

This will of course have no impact on the size of their UK operations both in terms of jobs, turnover and tax paid...

Eirikur
3rd May 2017, 10:51
Brexit - Where everyone is going:
Bank of America Dublin and Frankfurt
Goldman Sachs Frankfurt
JPMorgan Chase Dublin or Frankfurt
UBS Frankfurt
HSBC Paris. lol. (No really). Yes I know that they are all here.
Barclays Dublin
Standard Chartered Dublin or Frankfurt
Citigroup Frankfurt
Morgan Stanley Dublin or Frankfurt or New York
Daiwa Dublin or Frankfurt
Lloyds Banking Group Berlin
Credit Suisse Dublin
Bank of China Dublin
Sumitomo Mitsui Dublin
Mitsubishi UFJ Amsterdam
Mizuho Dublin or Amsterdam

Reference: Brexit: Dublin is set to gain big time as banks relocate from UK, will FinTech be a winner or loser? – Irish Tech News (http://irishtechnews.ie/brexit-dublin-is-set-to-gain-big-time-as-banks-relocate-from-uk-will-fintech-be-a-winner-or-loser/)

BMW - electrical Mini - Netherlands
Nestle (chocolat production) - Poland
Vauxhall - Sold to Peugeot so logically production will move to Germany where Opel builds the exact same cars
Easyjet - are considering moving parts of their organisation to mainland Europe, because of open skies agreement between EU countries

Toastiness
3rd May 2017, 11:02
BMW - electrical Mini - Netherlands
Nestle (chocolat production) - Poland
Vauxhall - Sold to Peugeot so logically production will move to Germany where Opel builds the exact same cars
Easyjet - are considering moving parts of their organisation to mainland Europe, because of open skies agreement between EU countries

AIG and Lloyds of London to Luxembourg

original PM
3rd May 2017, 11:03
I hope Dublin has the skill base to cope...

or actually will it to actually employ local people but just employ the same people now in a different country?

sasguru
3rd May 2017, 11:07
I hope Dublin has the skill base to cope...

or actually will it to actually employ local people but just employ the same people now in a different country?

The talent will move to where the jobs are.

BrilloPad
3rd May 2017, 11:09
The talent will move to where the jobs are.

So you are moving to the asylum as chief cretin?

original PM
3rd May 2017, 11:10
The talent will move to where the jobs are.

So from a UK perspective if these companies still want to employ the people they currently employ in the UK they can because

a) They are EU but not UK citizens and so can continue to work in EU
b) they are UK citizens but can get a 'visa' to work in the EU (remember no one has ever said Brexit means no-one from the EU can work in the UK just that there has to be a need and a process to stop unfettered access)

So......

not sure where this thread is going - obviously trying to be a doom and gloom brexit is tulip thread but reality is not really that....

sasguru
3rd May 2017, 11:15
not sure where this thread is going - obviously trying to be a doom and gloom brexit is tulip thread but reality is not really that....

You never were.
If jobs move abroad and the talent follows them, the UK economy will inevitably decline from (1) lack of brainy people compounded by (2) lack of the taxes they would otherwise pay. Then it becomes a vicious cycle. New companies don't relocate because there no talent. Economy sinks further. And so on. If a financial cluster develops in Dublin, new entrants, fintech and the like will base themselves there.
You only get the headlines for the big cos, but I know several medium sized ones in my sector are going too.

Eirikur
3rd May 2017, 11:20
The talent will move to where the jobs are.

Yes but they won't be spending their money in the UK anymore so especially people in lower paid jobs (many of them voted for Brexit) will lose their jobs as a result

worzelGummidge
3rd May 2017, 19:34
I put this up for info really.
I don't much like the idea of all this Brexit nonsense. It reminds me of Suez.
However if that's the way it is then so be it.
I think that I will try Dublin if it comes to it.
I would prefer to not too have to learn German and Frankfurt is further, even though I do like Germany.

squarepeg
3rd May 2017, 20:03
I believe you but the real questions to be asked are, how do you know and exactly how important and how large will the UK operations be?

They are moving a lot of jobs abroad for sure, but it's not like the people who stay will have nowhere to work, the startup scene is not going away, the FinTech sector will employ some of them, and the UK banking operations will have to keep up with the changes in legislation and technology, so they will employ local people again. Some people will set up their own companies. I'm looking at the EU banking legislation and related initiatives and I see bright future for the IT people in the finance industry. The good ones, of course. The crappy ones should be worried.

darmstadt
3rd May 2017, 20:08
They are moving a lot of jobs abroad for sure, but it's not like the people who stay will have nowhere to work, the startup scene is not going away, the FinTech sector will employ some of them, and the UK banking operations will have to keep up with the changes in legislation and technology, so they will employ local people again. Some people will set up their own companies. I'm looking at the EU banking legislation and related initiatives and I see bright future for the IT people in the finance industry. The good ones, of course. The crappy ones should be worried.

Fair enough but if many of these financial institutions do go ahead and move jobs abroad then there will be quite a few people out of work because remember, behind that whole City facade there is an infrastructure of people who rely on these companies. Everyone from the cleaner to the Barista to the waiter and so on. Then there is the knock.on effect to suppliers and so on. Everyone just sees that maybe a 1000 jobs will go from this and this company but that 1000 may well have 20 or so other people n subsidiary industries who rely on them.

squarepeg
3rd May 2017, 20:14
You never were.
If jobs move abroad and the talent follows them, the UK economy will inevitably decline from (1) lack of brainy people compounded by (2) lack of the taxes they would otherwise pay. Then it becomes a vicious cycle. New companies don't relocate because there no talent. Economy sinks further. And so on. If a financial cluster develops in Dublin, new entrants, fintech and the like will base themselves there.
You only get the headlines for the big cos, but I know several medium sized ones in my sector are going too.

You forgetting quality of life. Dublin may be English-speaking but it's not like it or Ireland is many people's first choice. Also, who knows how the NI situation will develop in the future? Let's hope for peace, but right now I am not thinking of moving to Dublin. I am seriously considering incorporating my next business there (or in Estonia), but I would not want to live there unless I absolutely have to.

SueEllen
3rd May 2017, 20:50
So from a UK perspective if these companies still want to employ the people they currently employ in the UK they can because

a) They are EU but not UK citizens and so can continue to work in EU
b) they are UK citizens but can get a 'visa' to work in the EU (remember no one has ever said Brexit means no-one from the EU can work in the UK just that there has to be a need and a process to stop unfettered access)

So......

not sure where this thread is going - obviously trying to be a doom and gloom brexit is tulip thread but reality is not really that....

Due to agreements between the UK and Ireland, British people can move to Dublin to work AND so can other EU citizens.

In other words for a business moving to Dublin is a great choice as you can get British people, EU citizens and other commonwealth citizens.

squarepeg
3rd May 2017, 20:52
Fair enough but if many of these financial institutions do go ahead and move jobs abroad then there will be quite a few people out of work because remember, behind that whole City facade there is an infrastructure of people who rely on these companies. Everyone from the cleaner to the Barista to the waiter and so on. Then there is the knock.on effect to suppliers and so on. Everyone just sees that maybe a 1000 jobs will go from this and this company but that 1000 may well have 20 or so other people n subsidiary industries who rely on them.

Of course, but I still believe in innovation. Innovation creates jobs. Britain is still a better place to start an innovative business. Britain places relatively few burdens upon micro/small business owners. Continental Europe may be attracting talent, but only until people used to the freedoms and the flexibility of the UK market realise how hard it is to switch contracts, pick and choose contract terms or run a limited company. Continental Europe does not like entrepreneurship and innovation. It's not a place where you can set up a company over the phone and be in business in 24 hours. It's a bureaucratic pit.

What may kill Britain's chances of surviving and thriving after Brexit is aggressive taxation.

Talk to your European colleagues, especially those who tired to run small (micro) IT businesses, especially in Eastern Europe and you will see a possible future of taxation in the UK. It's not nice. It's not just about the rates of tax, but also about the lack of trust towards the taxpayer and the unnecessary burden placed upon the taxpayer for no good reason. Like making small businesses file monthly tax and VAT returns (and you thought that the proposed quarterly tax returns were bad).

_V_
3rd May 2017, 21:02
And in Scotland Oil sector job losses 'to reach 120,000 by end of year' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-36491937)

And yet no one even reported it, or blamed it on Brexit, which hadn't even happened.

A few thousand banking jobs go to Dublin and we piss our pants.

Flashman
3rd May 2017, 21:08
Brexit - Where everyone is going?


London EC2 it seems


Deutsche Bank commits to new London office - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39378521)
Deutsche Bank has committed to moving to a new office in London, at a time when banks are assessing their place in the capital ahead of Brexit.

Germany's biggest lender is in exclusive talks for a 25-year lease on a new building

Sorry for posting actual news :rolleyes:

shaunbhoy
3rd May 2017, 21:10
I know several medium sized ones in my sector are going too.

It is a sad sad day when we are outsourcing our lollipop men.

:laugh

_V_
3rd May 2017, 21:10
London EC2 it seems


Sorry for posting actual news :rolleyes:

Yeah, we will miss a business like that.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/31/deutsche-bank-fined-630m-over-russia-money-laundering-claims

tpsman
27th May 2017, 17:40
What may kill Britain's chances of surviving and thriving after Brexit is aggressive taxation.

Talk to your European colleagues, especially those who tired to run small (micro) IT businesses, especially in Eastern Europe and you will see a possible future of taxation in the UK. It's not nice. It's not just about the rates of tax, but also about the lack of trust towards the taxpayer and the unnecessary burden placed upon the taxpayer for no good reason. Like making small businesses file monthly tax and VAT returns (and you thought that the proposed quarterly tax returns were bad).

I'm hoping it will lead to more automated accounting solutions, though maybe I'm naive. If you have to file once a year, then most people wait until the end of the year and try to frantically get everything in order and send it off to a professional to deal with. If you have to deal with it monthly, it becomes part of your daily/weekly/monthly operating procedures, and you can start to forget about it, as it's all dealt with.

northernladyuk
27th May 2017, 17:43
Due to agreements between the UK and Ireland, British people can move to Dublin to work AND so can other EU citizens.

In other words for a business moving to Dublin is a great choice as you can get British people, EU citizens and other commonwealth citizens.

Not commonwealth.

bobspud
28th May 2017, 05:46
You never were.
If jobs move abroad and the talent follows them, the UK economy will inevitably decline from (1) lack of brainy people compounded by (2) lack of the taxes they would otherwise pay. Then it becomes a vicious cycle. New companies don't relocate because there no talent. Economy sinks further. And so on. If a financial cluster develops in Dublin, new entrants, fintech and the like will base themselves there.
You only get the headlines for the big cos, but I know several medium sized ones in my sector are going too.

Oh hang on, wandering into any bar in the city or Canary Wharf will demonstrate that most bankwankers, while good at maths are not the type of intelligence needed to build a country...

NotAllThere
28th May 2017, 05:57
...
b) they are UK citizens but can get a 'visa' to work in the EU (remember no one has ever said Brexit means no-one from the EU can work in the UK just that there has to be a need and a process to stop unfettered access)
....

It's not quite that easy. Before Switzerland joined the EU Freedom of Movement, the playing field was level for all non-Swiss wanting to work here - employers had to demonstrate there was no-one in Switzerland to do the job. Afterwards, the employers had to demonstrate that there was no-one in the EU to do the job. As a result the recruitment of Americans and others from so-called "third countries" plummeted.

Before Brexit, UK citizens had equal access to the EU employment market. After (unless Freedom of Movement is agreed), employers will have to demonstrate that there was no-one in the EU who could do the job. When you have fettered access and EU citizens don't, you are at a massive disadvantage.

BlasterBates
28th May 2017, 10:50
London EC2 it seems

"Deutsche Bank has committed to moving to a new office in London, at a time when banks are assessing their place in the capital ahead of Brexit. "

Sorry for posting actual news :rolleyes:

....the reason Deutsche bank have committed to a new office is because they're closing their 15 other London offices, and moving most of their staff to Frankfurt. The remnants of their London staff will be consolidated in their London EC2 office.

Deutsche Bank to move 4000 jobs to Frankfurt (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-26/banks-get-serious-about-moving-jobs-to-frankfurt-as-brexit-looms)

When you are shrinking your workforce by such a considerable amount it doesn't make sense to have so many offices.

northernladyuk
28th May 2017, 11:59
....the reason Deutsche bank have committed to a new office is because they're closing their 15 other London offices, and moving most of their staff to Frankfurt. The remnants of their London staff will be consolidated in their London EC2 office.

Deutsche Bank to move 4000 jobs to Frankfurt (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-26/banks-get-serious-about-moving-jobs-to-frankfurt-as-brexit-looms)

When you are shrinking your workforce by such a considerable amount it doesn't make sense to have so many offices.

Presumably these are low paid jobs subsidised by working tax credits that do not support many other jobs in the economy?

darmstadt
28th May 2017, 12:14
....the reason Deutsche bank have committed to a new office is because they're closing their 15 other London offices, and moving most of their staff to Frankfurt. The remnants of their London staff will be consolidated in their London EC2 office.

Deutsche Bank to move 4000 jobs to Frankfurt (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-26/banks-get-serious-about-moving-jobs-to-frankfurt-as-brexit-looms)

When you are shrinking your workforce by such a considerable amount it doesn't make sense to have so many offices.

My inbox/Linkedin/Xing are full of mails from recruiters looking for people in banking in Frankfurt recently and not just IT.