PDA

View Full Version : NHS Improvement Correction



MeMeMe1966
30th May 2017, 15:26
https://improvement.nhs.uk/uploads/documents/IR35_Update_30May1.pdf

Guesstimator
31st May 2017, 08:50
"The introduction of the rules has made clear that an assessment of whether or not IR35
applies should be carried out in a fact-specific way; that is, it should be applied on a case-bycase
basis, rather than by a broader classification of roles. Therefore, NHS providers, and all
others categorised as public authorities, will need to consider whether or not an individual in
their particular situation is self-employed when they determine the application of the IR35
rules in that case. This consideration must be conducted fairly, accurately and take into
account all relevant factors, including representations which may be provided by the
individual."

I'm no doubt being dense but I can't help but think that's a positive outcome, and would be too in the private sector. Ironically I think the privSec will not accept this change in the rules at all (the admin overhead) leaving the contracting entity still sitting in the grey area of determining their own status.

KUWTC
31st May 2017, 08:59
In our dealings with HMRC, they've repeatedly told us that "no-one" is carrying out blanket assessments... So, if that's why case, why has NHS Improvement released this now? ;)

chrisw70
31st May 2017, 10:24
NHSI backed down in the face of a legal challenge.

It's a complete mess because who at a hospital has the time and expertise to assess every agency nurse individually for IR35 compliance? How are they going to do it? Will the nurse (of whom many travel quite a distance for shifts) have to attend an assessment meeting before doing a shift? I cannot see how this is going to work in reality.

Guesstimator
31st May 2017, 11:26
NHSI backed down in the face of a legal challenge.

It's a complete mess because who at a hospital has the time and expertise to assess every agency nurse individually for IR35 compliance? How are they going to do it? Will the nurse (of whom many travel quite a distance for shifts) have to attend an assessment meeting before doing a shift? I cannot see how this is going to work in reality.

PSB admin overheads aside (not my problem), I'd be happy to get in a bit early for a one off meeting if it meant confirming outside status with the end client for the duration of the contract. Tiny price to pay for that security.

chrisw70
1st June 2017, 09:30
PSB admin overheads aside (not my problem), I'd be happy to get in a bit early for a one off meeting if it meant confirming outside status with the end client for the duration of the contract. Tiny price to pay for that security.

I agree. It will be interesting to see how much confusion within the NHS this will cause.

Guesstimator
1st June 2017, 10:55
I agree. It will be interesting to see how much confusion within the NHS this will cause.

And all at the expense of patient care (ETA: I'm not in any way questioning the medical staff, just that it will inevitably siphon off cash that should be used on patient care)

:(

Best of luck with it, if you're involved.

MeMeMe1966
2nd June 2017, 13:21
My assessment is that pre-April HMRC went on the campaign trail hitting central gov departments and NHS hard in order to ensure there was maximum tax return from the legislation.

I have heard that there were a lot of closed door meetings around making sure PSBs fell into line to ensure an increased tax take and that it really had nothing to do with the actual rules around IR35. NHSI sent out some shockingly inaccurate briefing notes pre-April to bring the NHS into line.

When the final legislation came out including a duty of care there was silence and no one reversed earlier guidance.

I think they are now realising that they are somewhat exposed given the earlier flawed guidance and are trying to pre-empt any legal challenges.

I wonder if a FOI request for minutes of any meetings between HMRC and NHSI or central gov. departments regarding the new IR35 legislation would reveal anything?

My view is that some of the bigger organisation's blanket inside assessments that so clearly went against their own self interest and yet were also clearly not compliant with the actual legislation had more than mere HR incompetence as their driver.

We'll probably never know.