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Brummie
2nd June 2017, 20:21
Considering that both (major) parties are keen to abolish contracting in one way or other, while turning a blind eye towards major corporations, it appears that contracting profession is at death's door.

Is there a possibility to use my/our vote to change things?

DimPrawn
2nd June 2017, 20:29
Vote with your feet. i.e. emigrate.

SeanT
2nd June 2017, 20:36
Close your eyes and hit the ballot paper with something (and, in my case, be thankful the wife has a full time role with the NHS, I mean what could possibly go wrong :D )

Bee
2nd June 2017, 21:10
I think that contracting shall never end, there is always a need of a temporary work. If you ask me if there are lobbies around to try to finish contracting, yes.

AtW
2nd June 2017, 21:21
Vote with your feet. i.e. emigrate.

Yup


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGo96xzNSEs

sasguru
2nd June 2017, 21:27
Contracting is in rude health if you have the right skills.

HTH! BIDI

DimPrawn
2nd June 2017, 21:28
Contracting is in rude health if you have the right skills.

HTH! BIDI

What would a stay at home dad, living on SWMBO's pin money know? :wink

sasguru
2nd June 2017, 21:32
What would a stay at home dad, living on SWMBO's pin money know? :wink

I'm far richer than my better half. I have the capital mainly, we earn about the same.:happy

vetran
2nd June 2017, 21:39
Contracting is in rude health if you have the right skills.

HTH! BIDI

yes but not everyone is as accomplished at pole choking as you & MF are.

Andy Hallett
2nd June 2017, 21:44
I've had the benefit of supporting the flexible labour market across the world. We will be just fine.

sasguru
2nd June 2017, 21:47
I've had the benefit of supporting the flexible labour market across the world. We will be just fine.

Even without free movement ?

Andy Hallett
2nd June 2017, 22:30
Even without free movement ?

100% yes.

sasguru
2nd June 2017, 22:36
100% yes.

How does that work for you?

ShandyDrinker
3rd June 2017, 10:19
I've had the benefit of supporting the flexible labour market across the world. We will be just fine.

Depends on your definition of fine?

For agencies I don't expect things will change too much but for the majority of poor sods who will end up being dragged into IR35 whether it is applicable or not will not be fine, assuming of course the direction of travel is applying IR35 outside of the public sector.

Andy Hallett
3rd June 2017, 20:33
Depends on your definition of fine?

For agencies I don't expect things will change too much but for the majority of poor sods who will end up being dragged into IR35 whether it is applicable or not will not be fine, assuming of course the direction of travel is applying IR35 outside of the public sector.

Actually I think the market will be just fine, certainly for genuine independent contractors. The issue in recent years is people who really should be temps or employees have been forced into contracting almost as a low cost alternative.

I suspect what will happen is that this cohort will increasingly return to the perm market again as IR35 and other tax measures such as dividend changes and removal of FRVS continue to bite.

We will then see genuine contractors moving to 'Statement of Works agreements. More tightly procured, more risk passed down but also more reward.

ShandyDrinker
3rd June 2017, 20:59
Actually I think the market will be just fine, certainly for genuine independent contractors. The issue in recent years is people who really should be temps or employees have been forced into contracting almost as a low cost alternative.

I suspect what will happen is that this cohort will increasingly return to the perm market again as IR35 and other tax measures such as dividend changes and removal of FRVS continue to bite.

We will then see genuine contractors moving to 'Statement of Works agreements. More tightly procured, more risk passed down but also more reward.

Fair response.

I think it would greatly enhance the sector to move to 'Statement of Works agreements' as you say but from my experience of contracting over the past decade, the number of both clients and agencies who have been prepared to work to this model have been few and far between in part due to the fact that it takes a lot more work for all concerned.

Hobosapien
4th June 2017, 10:26
Will be interesting to see how contracting continues to be affected by the evolution of employment and the 'gig economy'.

Easy to see future solutions by the big players (that shape government rules by their lobbying) where we all are self employed, use an app to offer our services/availability, and the app provider sorts out the tax liabilities and transfers the rest into the person's bank account automatically. Employers no longer have any employees (beyond a core they need long term, which will become smaller as more roles are automated or evolve), so they just pay a rate to the app provider and don't have to worry about payroll, pensions, or any of the other employee rights and benefits.

i.e. the opposite of what Corbyn and the old thinkers are on about.

Who's going to be the one to come up with the app that takes over, Deliveroo?

Andy Hallett
5th June 2017, 18:54
Fair response.

I think it would greatly enhance the sector to move to 'Statement of Works agreements' as you say but from my experience of contracting over the past decade, the number of both clients and agencies who have been prepared to work to this model have been few and far between in part due to the fact that it takes a lot more work for all concerned.

Our clients are the ones driving this to be fair, as you say it's more work, and also more risk, but with risk comes reward.

Part of my new role is looking at productising how we do this.

d000hg
5th June 2017, 18:59
I've been contracting for getting on 10 years (nothing compared to many here) and since day 1 of joining CUK, people have been prophesying the end of contracting.

It might grow and shrink over time depending on the economy, government policy, etc, but the contracting market simply isn't going anywhere. Make sure you're good and don't fritter away your war-chest!

Elliegirl
5th June 2017, 19:03
I've been contracting for getting on 10 years (nothing compared to many here) and since day 1 of joining CUK, people have been prophesying the end of contracting.

It might grow and shrink over time depending on the economy, government policy, etc, but the contracting market simply isn't going anywhere. Make sure you're good and don't fritter away your war-chest!

:yay::yay::yay:

m0n1k3r
7th June 2017, 23:19
I'm far richer than my better half. I have the capital mainly, we earn about the same.:happy

Then move to Belgium. No CGT.

m0n1k3r
7th June 2017, 23:24
I've had the benefit of supporting the flexible labour market across the world. We will be just fine.

I have the benefit of being part of a group with companies in a number of countries, mainly in the EU. Losing EU citizenship will complicate matters quite a bit for UK contractors.

m0n1k3r
7th June 2017, 23:29
Actually I think the market will be just fine, certainly for genuine independent contractors. The issue in recent years is people who really should be temps or employees have been forced into contracting almost as a low cost alternative.

I suspect what will happen is that this cohort will increasingly return to the perm market again as IR35 and other tax measures such as dividend changes and removal of FRVS continue to bite.

We will then see genuine contractors moving to 'Statement of Works agreements. More tightly procured, more risk passed down but also more reward.

Unfortunately around 95% of all (UK) contractors think about themselves as just "wanting a job" - e.g. temp staff, but with tax benefits. And of the 5% remaining, few in the UK are willing to work against an SOW with invoicing after delivery or in instalments and 30+ days (75+ is more of the norm) payment terms.