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northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 10:59
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/07/uk-would-have-to-declare-state-of-emergency-to-change-human-rights-laws

Yikes!

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 11:01
Because nothing tells the terrorists who threaten our rights and way of life like declaring a state of emergency and removing our human rights...

PurpleGorilla
7th June 2017, 11:05
For the record I think it is a mistake about dropping the ECHR, but having said that surely 3 terror attacks in 3 months and our threat level set to 'you spilt my pint' is strong evidence of a state of emergency?

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 11:08
For the record I think it is a mistake about dropping the ECHR, but having said that surely 3 terror attacks in 3 months and our threat level set to 'you spilt my pint' is strong evidence of a state of emergency?

So for how long a period do you think the State of Emergency should be imposed?

Troll
7th June 2017, 11:13
https://youtu.be/E06cNv55jTs?t=38

grabri
7th June 2017, 11:20
This is all further evidence that she is making it up as she goes along.. an unnecessary knee-jerk reaction to make her seem 'strong and stable' while deflecting from the policy of cutting police and security budgets over the last 7 years.

Is there anything left of the Tory manifesto that hasn't been reversed?

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 11:24
This is all further evidence that she is making it up as she goes along.. an unnecessary knee-jerk reaction to make her seem 'strong and stable' while deflecting from the policy of cutting police and security budgets over the last 7 years.

Is there anything left of the Tory manifesto that hasn't been reversed?

Really? Isn't it just Lynton Crosby dog-whistle politics to make sure more of the UKIP vote goes to the Tories?

BrilloPad
7th June 2017, 11:26
A terrorist is anyone who does not vote Tory.

HTH

OwlHoot
7th June 2017, 11:41
Woah! Hang on just a mo.

That article doesn't say she _has_ declared a state of emergency, only that she "would" do such and such "if" she did.

Talk about last moment blatant dog whistle politics from a leftie rag. :eyes

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 11:50
Woah! Hang on just a mo.

That article doesn't say she _has_ declared a state of emergency, only that she "would" do such and such "if" she did.

Talk about last moment blatant dog whistle politics from a leftie rag. :eyes

Woah! Hang on just a mo.

This thread doesn't say she _has_ declared a state of emergency.

Talk about last moment blatant cretinism from a Brexiteer. :eyes

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 12:09
You can't even trust Newsthump these days, but at least they are balanced:

ISIS supporters planning to wreak havoc on UK by voting Tory (http://newsthump.com/2017/06/07/isis-supporters-planning-to-wreak-havoc-on-uk-by-voting-tory/)
Jeremy Corbyn to introduce TERRORIST IRA JIHADI state in YOUR back garden! (http://newsthump.com/2017/06/07/jeremy-corbyn-to-introduce-terrorist-ira-jihadi-state-in-your-back-garden/)

PurpleGorilla
7th June 2017, 12:21
So for how long a period do you think the State of Emergency should be imposed?

I don't.

PurpleGorilla
7th June 2017, 12:22
A terrorist is anyone who does not vote Tory.

HTH

Vote for the woman who cut police when they warned her it would increase the risk of terrorism.

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 12:24
Vote for the woman who cut police when they warned her it would increase the risk of terrorism.

But on the other hand, Komrade Korbyn had a cuppa with Sinn Féin.

original PM
7th June 2017, 12:24
Vote for the woman who cut police when they warned her it would increase the risk of terrorism.

Is that really true though?

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 12:25
Is that really true though?

If it was, would it change your view of her?

darmstadt
7th June 2017, 12:39
Is that really true though?

Police cuts will leave Britain exposed to terror, warns top officer and Boris Johnson - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12008093/Police-cuts-will-leave-Britain-expose-to-terror-warns-top-officer-and-Boris-Johnson.html)

https://www.channel4.com/news/police-cuts-put-public-safety-at-risk-warns-acpo

Police forces all face major budget cuts - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31771456)

Government u-turn on 'protecting the police' means GMP must make more cuts - Manchester Evening News (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/government-u-turn-protecting-police-12044504)

PressTV-UK govt. warned against police cuts (http://217.218.67.231/detail/2015/11/19/438315/uk-govt-warned-against-police-cuts)

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 12:43
Police cuts will leave Britain exposed to terror, warns top officer and Boris Johnson - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12008093/Police-cuts-will-leave-Britain-expose-to-terror-warns-top-officer-and-Boris-Johnson.html)

https://www.channel4.com/news/police-cuts-put-public-safety-at-risk-warns-acpo

Police forces all face major budget cuts - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31771456)

Government u-turn on 'protecting the police' means GMP must make more cuts - Manchester Evening News (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/government-u-turn-protecting-police-12044504)

PressTV-UK govt. warned against police cuts (http://217.218.67.231/detail/2015/11/19/438315/uk-govt-warned-against-police-cuts)

Police Federation crying wolf over cuts, says Theresa May - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32806520)


In his keynote speech to the conference in Bournemouth earlier, Mr White said neighbourhood policing was "just one of the endangered species in the new streamlined barren policing landscape".
He told Mrs May: "You seriously need to listen. And do not make the mistake of dismissing what you hear thinking 'Here they go again, the Police Federation, moaning and scaremongering'.
"No. Here we are again, the Police Federation telling it like it is."


To my untrained eye, neighbourhood policing sounds important when it comes to linking in with the community when concerns are raised - e.g. the Manchester bomber flying an ISIS flag.

original PM
7th June 2017, 12:46
Police cuts will leave Britain exposed to terror, warns top officer and Boris Johnson - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12008093/Police-cuts-will-leave-Britain-expose-to-terror-warns-top-officer-and-Boris-Johnson.html)

https://www.channel4.com/news/police-cuts-put-public-safety-at-risk-warns-acpo

Police forces all face major budget cuts - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31771456)

Government u-turn on 'protecting the police' means GMP must make more cuts - Manchester Evening News (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/government-u-turn-protecting-police-12044504)

PressTV-UK govt. warned against police cuts (http://217.218.67.231/detail/2015/11/19/438315/uk-govt-warned-against-police-cuts)

So if we had more police we could do more stop and search/spot checks on lets say people who look like Muslims and who go to places know to be where Muslims go to meet?

I think when that was tried there were screams of racism and victimisation.

So yes I am all for spending more money on an anti terrorist squad specifically targeting the muslim community as that is 'the group of people' where the perpetrators of the last two attacks claim to come from.

How does that sit with you?

PurpleGorilla
7th June 2017, 12:47
Is that really true though?

Yes

http://metro.co.uk/video/gmp-inspector-blasted-home-secretary-theresa-cuts-1471119/?ito=vjs-link

WTFH
7th June 2017, 12:51
So if we had more police we could do more stop and search/spot checks on lets say people who look like Muslims and who go to places know to be where Muslims go to meet?

I think when that was tried there were screams of racism and victimisation.

So yes I am all for spending more money on an anti terrorist squad specifically targeting the muslim community as that is 'the group of people' where the perpetrators of the last two attacks claim to come from.

How does that sit with you?

No, you're twisting arguments to suit your agenda. As was said by others - more police working in communities means that they have a better chance of spotting, catching, reacting to and investigating people flying ISIS flags, etc.

You don't need policemen to go around measuring the length of people's beards and telling them they need to wear a star on their arm.

Hobosapien
7th June 2017, 12:53
France has been in a 'state of emergency' since the Paris attacks in 2015. Sounds like May is proposing same here.

Was over in Paris last year for some of the Euro 2016 and while there was loads of army outside the Eiffel Tower fanzone otherwise it was very much business as usual. Was in there for the Wales v England game and it was a riot, in the good way. :smokin

So if this change allows them the freedom to clamp down on the evil brainwashed scum then I see no problem. It's when they use these attacks as an excuse to further a different agenda that it all gets a bit dodgy.

PurpleGorilla
7th June 2017, 12:53
So if we had more police we could do more stop and search/spot checks on lets say people who look like Muslims and who go to places know to be where Muslims go to meet?

I think when that was tried there were screams of racism and victimisation.

So yes I am all for spending more money on an anti terrorist squad specifically targeting the muslim community as that is 'the group of people' where the perpetrators of the last two attacks claim to come from.

How does that sit with you?

Watch this:

http://metro.co.uk/video/gmp-inspector-blasted-home-secretary-theresa-cuts-1471119/?ito=vjs-link

It's about community policing - the grass roots communications and presence within communities that gathers intelligence.

original PM
7th June 2017, 12:55
No, you're twisting arguments to suit your agenda. As was said by others - more police working in communities means that they have a better chance of spotting, catching, reacting to and investigating people flying ISIS flags, etc.

You don't need policemen to go around measuring the length of people's beards and telling them they need to wear a star on their arm.

Why spend time and money putting more police on the streets of leafy burbs containing middle class white people

when no terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory?

Do not just spend money on a blanket solution when you need a targeted solution - it is weak and will not achieve the goal you set out to achieve.

AtW
7th June 2017, 12:57
Why spend time and money putting more police on the streets of leafy burbs containing middle class white people

Because they are fooking paying for it with high taxes?

Good enough reason in my book.

original PM
7th June 2017, 13:01
Because they are fooking paying for it with high taxes?

Good enough reason in my book.

Yes but they would prefer to be able to go to a large city without the fear of some nutter from a non leafy burn who is potentially or almost certainly a muslim from a mainly muslim community committing an act of terrorism - so police those communities better.

WTFH
7th June 2017, 13:03
Why spend time and money putting more police on the streets of leafy burbs containing middle class white people

when no terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory?

Do not just spend money on a blanket solution when you need a targeted solution - it is weak and will not achieve the goal you set out to achieve.

Again, you are twisting the argument. Who said police would only be put into leafy suburbs?
Is that like saying "there's no bad people living in middle England, they all live in poor slums"

original PM
7th June 2017, 13:07
Again, you are twisting the argument. Who said police would only be put into leafy suburbs?
Is that like saying "there's no bad people living in middle England, they all live in poor slums"

The point I am trying to make is that we do not need more police in leafy burbs so do not spend the money there.

Spend the money policing the areas where the problems are known to come from.

How am I twisting the argument - I have no desire for more police on the streets I have a desire to live without fear of terrorism.

And putting more police on the streets != less terrorism

darmstadt
7th June 2017, 13:25
So if we had more police we could do more stop and search/spot checks on lets say people who look like Muslims and who go to places know to be where Muslims go to meet?

I think when that was tried there were screams of racism and victimisation.

So yes I am all for spending more money on an anti terrorist squad specifically targeting the muslim community as that is 'the group of people' where the perpetrators of the last two attacks claim to come from.

How does that sit with you?

You're probably to young to remember SUS (stopped many a time) and anyway I was just pointing out that May was warned about police cuts

original PM
7th June 2017, 13:34
You're probably to young to remember SUS (stopped many a time) and anyway I was just pointing out that May was warned about police cuts

Yes but the point is we know where the terrorist come from, we know in general what they dress like and we know in general where they will go to congregate - so referencing the Vagrancy Act 1824 is possibly legitimate.

I know that it is a very small minority who are committing the terrorist attacks but if that community will not call them out - and by that I do not mean call a terrorist hotline I mean make a citizens arrest and ensure they are passed to police custody.

Also sadly the UK police is hampered by a ridiculous level of 'politic scheming' so it would not surprise me to find things overlooked and blamed on 'the reduction in police budgets' when it is fook all to do with it.

WTFH
7th June 2017, 13:35
I have a desire to live without fear of terrorism.


Then you'd better be voting tomorrow for a party that doesn't consider Saudi Arabia as an important ally, who have failed with their Home Office policies for several years, and have Foreign Office policies that need to be reviewed as they don't appear to be working particularly well.

But based on your other posts today, it seems like your solution is to round people up, based on their religion and put them somewhere that they can have freedom through work.
Or is that not what you are suggesting?

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 13:37
To my untrained eye, neighbourhood policing sounds important when it comes to linking in with the community when concerns are raised - e.g. the Manchester bomber flying an ISIS flag.

The 7/7 bombers had thrown away packaging that indicated some of the bomb making equipment. People saw it near their house / flat but didn't know who to to speak to about it because there was nobody in the neighbourhood to talk to about it.

shaunbhoy
7th June 2017, 13:37
Does anyone REALLY imagine that a few more uniformed Police breezing around largely Muslim ghettoes is going to make one iota of difference to fundamentalist activities, and reduce the number of terrorist attacks?

Of course it won't, the solutions to these problems are a bit more subtle than that.

:eyes

original PM
7th June 2017, 13:39
Then you'd better be voting tomorrow for a party that doesn't consider Saudi Arabia as an important ally, who have failed with their Home Office policies for several years, and have Foreign Office policies that need to be reviewed as they don't appear to be working particularly well.

But based on your other posts today, it seems like your solution is to round people up, based on their religion and put them somewhere that they can have freedom through work.
Or is that not what you are suggesting?

Increasing the number of the police will not influence foreign policy - none of us on here actually know what goes on behind closed doors between UK governments (be the Labour, Tory or MRLP) and other countries.

However if you are saying we need more police to help combat terrorism they we need to concentrate those resources in the areas which are know to be breeding groups for radicalisation and extremism.

Which areas they are I will leave other to comment on.

shaunbhoy
7th June 2017, 13:39
The 7/7 bombers had thrown away packaging that indicated some of the bomb making equipment. People saw it near their house / flat but didn't know who to to speak to about it because there was nobody in the neighbourhood to talk to about it.

If only it had dawned on these eagle-eyed samaritans to perhaps call 999 as a first option?
:eyes

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 13:40
when no terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory?

If 1996 doesn't count as living memory (or even 1987), when were you born?

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 13:40
If only it had dawned on these eagle-eyed samaritans to perhaps call 999 as a first option?
:eyes

"I've seen some packaging in the street" must be a high priority 999 call :eyes

shaunbhoy
7th June 2017, 13:41
If 1996 doesn't count as living memory (or even 1987), when were you born?

Ah.....the old comparing of apples with bananas strategy.

shaunbhoy
7th June 2017, 13:43
"I've seen some packaging in the street" must be a high priority 999 call :eyes

Well according to YOU it would have been a high enough priority to alert your local Bobby to it had he been passing.

Make your mind up.

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 13:43
Ah.....the old comparing of apples with bananas strategy.

I'm sure what you post makes sense when you type it, but I have no idea what it means when I read it.

If my post was too subtle for you, I'll rephrase - there have been terror attacks committed by middle class people in the UK within living memory. To suggest otherwise implies either ignorance or someone quite young.

darmstadt
7th June 2017, 13:44
You don't need policemen to go around measuring the length of people's beards and telling them they need to wear a star on their arm.

Actually they should be stopping all men with beards, in particular the young ones, give them a clip around the ear, tell them to go home and shave it off and put some bloody socks on :happy

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 13:45
Well according to YOU it would have been a high enough priority to alert your local Bobby to it had he been passing.

Make your mind up.

If there were officers walking round the streets who saw something suspicious to their trained eye, then maybe they could have done something about it in advance.

original PM
7th June 2017, 13:45
If 1996 doesn't count as living memory (or even 1987), when were you born?

The IRA do not count as middle class suburbanites....

or were you referring to something else?

shaunbhoy
7th June 2017, 13:46
If there were officers walking round the streets rummaging through everyone's dustbins, then maybe they could have done something about it in advance.

ftfy

Think you may find that scavenging exceeds their remit.

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 13:48
The IRA do not count as middle class suburbanites....

or were you referring to something else?

I'm sure if you look through living memory you'll learn something and see :)

shaunbhoy
7th June 2017, 13:49
The IRA do not count as middle class suburbanites....

or were you referring to something else?

I think he was referring to Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton, a couple of fruitloops that went berserk with machine guns in Hungerford and Dunblane.

Hardly comparable to Jihadis in truth, but it seems like he is trying to make some sort of equivalence.

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 13:57
I think he was referring to Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton, a couple of fruitloops that went berserk with machine guns in Hungerford and Dunblane.

Hardly comparable to Jihadis in truth, but it seems like he is trying to make some sort of equivalence.

Give that boy a gold star for modern history (even though there was no machine gun used at Dunblane) :) And then take it away for reading something that was never written :(

The original statement was "no terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory?". My point was merely that terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory. I made no statement or comment on whether there was any equivalence, merely that there have been terror attacks performed by white middle class people in the UK.

original PM
7th June 2017, 14:01
Give that boy a gold star for modern history (even though there was no machine gun used at Dunblane) :) And then take it away for reading something that was never written :(

The original statement was "no terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory?". My point was merely that terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory. I made no statement or comment on whether there was any equivalence, merely that there have been terror attacks performed by white middle class people in the UK.

And which major group claimed responsibility and cheered about these two incidents?

Answer none - they were not part of a larger terrorist organisation committed to affecting our way of life for political gain.

So yes comparing Apples and well anything else but apples.

TheFaQQer
7th June 2017, 14:03
And which major group claimed responsibility and cheered about these two incidents?

Answer none - they were not part of a larger terrorist organisation committed to affecting our way of life for political gain.

So yes comparing Apples and well anything else but apples.

You didn't say anything about a major group, or anyone cheering. Or a larger group. Or any commitment to any gain. Your statement was merely that "no terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory?" which I have shown to be false :)

Comparing your original statement to your new extended one would indeed compare one thing to something completely different.

original PM
7th June 2017, 14:05
You didn't say anything about a major group, or anyone cheering. Or a larger group. Or any commitment to any gain. Your statement was merely that "no terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory?" which I have shown to be false :)

Good point.

In my head a terror attack is an attack on our way of life as part of a larger political organisation who are committed to disrupting our way of life.

Your argument almost means that anytime anyone has a fight on the street and pulls a knife they can be seen as a terrorist.

Which may be correct but in my head it is not because there is no further political agenda.

PurpleGorilla
7th June 2017, 14:16
I'm sure what you post makes sense when you type it, but I have no idea what it means when I read it.

If my post was too subtle for you, I'll rephrase - there have been terror attacks committed by middle class people in the UK within living memory. To suggest otherwise implies either ignorance or someone quite young.

This bloke sounds quite middle class...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/03/student-found-guilty-planting-bomb-tube-train/

WTFH
7th June 2017, 14:18
This bloke sounds quite middle class...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/03/student-found-guilty-planting-bomb-tube-train/

Probably not white enough for the OriginalNF.

PurpleGorilla
7th June 2017, 14:22
Good point.

In my head a terror attack is an attack on our way of life as part of a larger political organisation who are committed to disrupting our way of life.

Your argument almost means that anytime anyone has a fight on the street and pulls a knife they can be seen as a terrorist.

Which may be correct but in my head it is not because there is no further political agenda.

Does this meet your definition?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/nintchdbpict000019573919-e1485120956910.jpg?strip=all&w=960

original PM
7th June 2017, 14:25
Well there you go then.

Create a police state where no one has any freedoms.

That'll solve the problem.

PurpleGorilla
7th June 2017, 14:32
Well there you go then.

Create a police state where no one has any freedoms.

That'll solve the problem.

How do you create a police state when you cut the number of police?

Hobosapien
7th June 2017, 14:34
How do you create a police state when you cut the number of police?


Deputise the citizens.

We've already got Neighbourhood Watch. :eyes

Whorty
7th June 2017, 14:45
Yes but the point is we know where the terrorist come from, we know in general what they dress like and we know in general where they will go to congregate - so referencing the Vagrancy Act 1824 is possibly legitimate.

I know that it is a very small minority who are committing the terrorist attacks but if that community will not call them out - and by that I do not mean call a terrorist hotline I mean make a citizens arrest and ensure they are passed to police custody.

Also sadly the UK police is hampered by a ridiculous level of 'politic scheming' so it would not surprise me to find things overlooked and blamed on 'the reduction in police budgets' when it is fook all to do with it.

But with both the Manchester attack, and the London attack, the Muslim community did call out the attackers and the authorities did naff all about them. Seems the issue with both these attacks wasn't lack of police on the beat, but a lack of desire to follow up on warnings from the general public.

We always seem to have enough police to man mobile speed traps though. Maybe the police forces should stop playing politics and put the resources into stopping terrorism rather than catching speeding motorists!

darmstadt
7th June 2017, 14:54
How do you create a police state when you cut the number of police?

DDR

sal
7th June 2017, 14:58
Well according to YOU it would have been a high enough priority to alert your local Bobby to it had he been passing.

Make your mind up.

Which scenario is more likely to produce positive results:

Scenario A: The concern citizen meets the plod on their way to the store and spares one minute to point out to him some suspicions packaging couple of 100's yards down the road, then the plod checks them out as his route already passes nearby.

Scenario B: The concern citizen calls 999 spends several minutes describing the issue and identifying himself. The call is logged as low priority, several days later someone eventually gets to the spot only to see nothing as the packaging is already at the landfill.

Scenario C: The concern citizen calls 999 spends several minutes describing the issue and identifying himself, only to be told off for wasting emergency number resources with rubbish calls.

The problem is it wasn't just police numbers being cut but the budget as a whole, I would understand cutting the numbers of beat officers to focus the funds towards cyber crime, surveillance and other modern methods of policing, but that's not what happend is it.

What is the point in spending billions on Aircraft carriers to be used for what? While cutting the funding that can help where it actually counts - the war on our streets, knife attacks, moped gangs and terrorists that have actual impact on the population.

original PM
7th June 2017, 14:59
But with both the Manchester attack, and the London attack, the Muslim community did call out the attackers and the authorities did naff all about them. Seems the issue with both these attacks wasn't lack of police on the beat, but a lack of desire to follow up on warnings from the general public.

We always seem to have enough police to man mobile speed traps though. Maybe the police forces should stop playing politics and put the resources into stopping terrorism rather than catching speeding motorists!

But I said 'and by that I do not mean call a terrorist hotline I mean make a citizens arrest and ensure they are passed to police custody.'

sal
7th June 2017, 15:05
But with both the Manchester attack, and the London attack, the Muslim community did call out the attackers and the authorities did naff all about them. Seems the issue with both these attacks wasn't lack of police on the beat, but a lack of desire to follow up on warnings from the general public.

We always seem to have enough police to man mobile speed traps though. Maybe the police forces should stop playing politics and put the resources into stopping terrorism rather than catching speeding motorists!

While i hold no sympathy for the mobile speed traps, far more people are killed and injured in traffic accidents (often caused by high speed) than from terror attacks.


In reported road traffic accidents for the year ending March 2016:

there were 1,780 road deaths, unchanged from the year ending March 2015
24,610 people were killed or seriously injured

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-provisional-estimates-january-to-march-2016

So I wouldn't say the Police doesn't have their priorities straight.

sal
7th June 2017, 15:10
But I said 'and by that I do not mean call a terrorist hotline I mean make a citizens arrest and ensure they are passed to police custody.'

You are watching too much American TV, not that simple in the UK:

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/76531000/png/_76531991_final_flow_fri(4).png

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 15:34
You are watching too much American TV, not that simple in the UK:

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/76531000/png/_76531991_final_flow_fri(4).png

Citizen's arrest in the UK can only be made if an actual crime has taken place. Reasonable suspicion is not sufficient.

scooterscot
7th June 2017, 15:36
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/07/uk-would-have-to-declare-state-of-emergency-to-change-human-rights-laws

Yikes!


“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities,
Can Make You Commit Atrocities” Voltaire

The greatest enemies to humankind has and will always be the politician and the cleric.

shaunbhoy
7th June 2017, 15:40
Your statement was merely that "no terror attacks have been performed by middle class white people in the UK in living memory?" which I have shown to be false :)



terrorist

noun
1.
a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"four commercial aircraft were hijacked by terrorists"
synonyms: bomber, arsonist, incendiary; More
adjective
1.
unlawfully using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"a terrorist organization"


Now can you elaborate on just what the "political aims" of Hamilton and Ryan were as you seem hell-bent on categorising them as "terrorists"?

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 15:41
“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities,
Can Make You Commit Atrocities” Voltaire

The greatest enemy to humankind has and will always be the politician and the cleric.

That's two enemies.

shaunbhoy
7th June 2017, 15:45
Which scenario is more likely to produce positive results:

Scenario A: The concern citizen meets the plod on their way to the store and spares one minute to point out to him some suspicions packaging couple of 100's yards down the road, then the plod checks them out as his route already passes nearby.

Scenario B: The concern citizen calls 999 spends several minutes describing the issue and identifying himself. The call is logged as low priority, several days later someone eventually gets to the spot only to see nothing as the packaging is already at the landfill.

Scenario C: The concern citizen calls 999 spends several minutes describing the issue and identifying himself, only to be told off for wasting emergency number resources with rubbish calls.

The problem is it wasn't just police numbers being cut but the budget as a whole, I would understand cutting the numbers of beat officers to focus the funds towards cyber crime, surveillance and other modern methods of policing, but that's not what happend is it.

What is the point in spending billions on Aircraft carriers to be used for what? While cutting the funding that can help where it actually counts - the war on our streets, knife attacks, moped gangs and terrorists that have actual impact on the population.

Or how about scenario D : The concerned citizen calls 999 and says that they live in an area with a high concentration of Muslims and they have identified some suspicious packaging that appears to have contained items that could be utilised in the making of IEDs.

In the current climate, how do you imagine the Police might react?

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 15:47
terrorist

noun
1.
a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"four commercial aircraft were hijacked by terrorists"
synonyms: bomber, arsonist, incendiary; More
adjective
1.
unlawfully using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"a terrorist organization"


Now can you elaborate on just what the "political aims" of Hamilton and Ryan were as you seem hell-bent on categorising them as "terrorists"?

How about Tony Blair?

grabri
7th June 2017, 15:51
Citizen's arrest in the UK can only be made if an actual crime has taken place. Reasonable suspicion is not sufficient.

https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q508.htm


You can make an arrest if the suspect is actually committing the offence or if you reasonably suspect them of committing it, or when the offence has been committed and you reasonably suspect them of having committed it.

BlasterBates
7th June 2017, 16:16
If the Conservatives win a landslide then I think it would be entirely appropriate to declare a state of emergency.

:D

northernladyuk
7th June 2017, 16:17
https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q508.htm

Thank you. I must have been reading a very old book...

GJABS
7th June 2017, 18:07
How about Tony Blair?

What he got up to was not unlawful*, or intended by him to be unlawful.


* There are those who think he did act outside the law, and they are campaigning for criminal charges against him.