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milanbenes
9th June 2017, 12:14
thanks Theresa, you did a stunning job

We all enjoyed the last six weeks, especially the jokers you kept pulling out to really ensure you'd reach your goal, the pensioners selling their houses to pay for care fees was a classic

Milan.

AtW
9th June 2017, 12:19
It's going to be super hard Brexit now.

Tories will adopt scorched earth policy.

HTH

SandyD
9th June 2017, 12:21
thanks Theresa, you did a stunning job

We all enjoyed the last six weeks, especially the jokers you kept pulling out to really ensure you'd reach your goal, the pensioners selling their houses to pay for care fees was a classic

Milan.

How so? DUP are very Eurosceptic and pro Brexit... May's attitude is the same..

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 12:24
How so? DUP are very Eurosceptic and pro Brexit... May's attitude is the same..

DUP will have to careful to avoid any 'serious' physical border so in some respects they'll not be Brexit at any cost.

TestMangler
9th June 2017, 12:24
How so? DUP are very Eurosceptic and pro Brexit... May's attitude is the same..

Except that they need access to the single market and don't want a hard border, are totally anti private NHS, would like to kill the pope and ban abortion. Don't remember much of that in the Tory manifesto.

diseasex
9th June 2017, 12:25
Except that they need access to the single market and don't want a hard border, are totally anti private NHS, would like to kill the pope and ban abortion. Don't remember much of that in the Tory manifesto.
Sounds like great coalition:eyes

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 12:26
Except that they need access to the single market and don't want a hard border, are totally anti private NHS, would like to kill the pope and ban abortion. Don't remember much of that in the Tory manifesto.

They don't need to ban abortions - they already are in NI.

VectraMan
9th June 2017, 12:27
They don't need to ban abortions - they already are in NI.

They can ban abortions in the rest of the UK. Now that they're in charge.

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 12:28
They can ban abortions in the rest of the UK. Now that they're in charge.

But they won't.

Mordac
9th June 2017, 12:28
thanks Theresa, you did a stunning job

We all enjoyed the last six weeks, especially the jokers you kept pulling out to really ensure you'd reach your goal, the pensioners selling their houses to pay for care fees was a classic

Milan.

As election campaigns go, it was an utter car crash. You just know there were people in the background saying "all you have to do is turn up, and you'll easily beat the Marxist wannabee". I have no doubt there were advisors saying the election was a bad idea because Corbyn was the gift that just keeps on giving, and it would be a shame to have him booted out so soon.
When your flagship policy scares the living sh!t out of a large number your core voters, don't be surprised when those same voters get a whacking dose of cold feet.
She made the wrong call. In the real world, we'd all get fired for that. The very least she should do is resign. On the plus side, I think we've heard the last of "strong and stable".
I don't think Brexit is dead, it's just become a hell of a lot more difficult to achieve. Thanks Mrs May. Thanks for f**k all.

DaveB
9th June 2017, 12:33
As election campaigns go, it was an utter car crash. You just know there were people in the background saying "all you have to do is turn up, and you'll easily beat the Marxist wannabee". I have no doubt there were advisors saying the election was a bad idea because Corbyn was the gift that just keeps on giving, and it would be a shame to have him booted out so soon.
When your flagship policy scares the living sh!t out of a large number your core voters, don't be surprised when those same voters get a whacking dose of cold feet.
She made the wrong call. In the real world, we'd all get fired for that. The very least she should do is resign. On the plus side, I think we've heard the last of "strong and stable".
I don't think Brexit is dead, it's just become a hell of a lot more difficult to achieve. Thanks Mrs May. Thanks for f**k all.

It's "Safe and Secure" now.

:eyes

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 12:33
As election campaigns go, it was an utter car crash. You just know there were people in the background saying "all you have to do is turn up, and you'll easily beat the Marxist wannabee". I have no doubt there were advisors saying the election was a bad idea because Corbyn was the gift that just keeps on giving, and it would be a shame to have him booted out so soon.
When your flagship policy scares the living sh!t out of a large number your core voters, don't be surprised when those same voters get a whacking dose of cold feet.
She made the wrong call. In the real world, we'd all get fired for that. The very least she should do is resign. On the plus side, I think we've heard the last of "strong and stable".
I don't think Brexit is dead, it's just become a hell of a lot more difficult to achieve. Thanks Mrs May. Thanks for f**k all.

I think it's not a bad as all that. You might well see May last a few months, a Conservative leadership contest and then another General Election. In the same way the SNP seem to have reached their high water mark, Corbyn facing say Johnston might be a totally different thing. The Conservatives have room to up their game. Corbyn's cards are all on the table.

VectraMan
9th June 2017, 12:36
I think it's not a bad as all that. You might well see May last a few months, a Conservative leadership contest and then another General Election. In the same way the SNP seem to have reached their high water mark, Corbyn facing say Johnston might be a totally different thing. The Conservatives have room to up their game. Corbyn's cards are all on the table.

That would surely be a Corbyn landslide.

milanbenes
9th June 2017, 12:38
That would surely be a Corbyn landslide.


Yep, Johnson would be the end of the line for the Conservatives

Bring it on

It will be fecking funny to watch

Popcorn anybody

Milan.

SueEllen
9th June 2017, 12:38
That would surely be a Corbyn landslide.

This.

Corbyn is good at speaking logically and campaigning.

Boris lies.

milanbenes
9th June 2017, 12:40
Boris is sooooo Alan B'stard

Damn funny to watch, and if he succeeds to become leader he'll be the nail in the coffin

Milan.

OwlHoot
9th June 2017, 12:40
It's going to be super hard Brexit now.

Tories will adopt scorched earth policy.

HTH

WHS - The DUP and the minority of hard-Brexit Tory MPs (about 25% I believe) now hold the whip hand in any important Brexit-related votes

So those Remainers like milan gloating about the result might find their hilarity somewhat premature :laugh

milanbenes
9th June 2017, 12:42
WHS - The DUP and the minority of hard-Brexit Tory MPs (about 25% I believe) now hold the whip hand in any important Brexit-related votes

So those Remainers like milan gloating about the result might find their hilarity somewhat premature :laugh

it's over dude, just accept it

this was all planned and perfectly executed and will continue to be

Milan.

Hobosapien
9th June 2017, 12:43
It's been expert manipulation by bremainer May and the elite since they got handed a brexit vote.

No way did May go to the vote on her government just to get a few more seats majority, when the risk is some seats were so precarious barely any swing was needed to lose them, as we've seen.

One SNP seat was lost to Lib Dem by just 2 votes. * :laugh Something else 'they' wanted to sort out by another election, SNP's almost total control of Scotland and them pushing for another vote on the UK.

* shame that wasn't Alex Salmond's just for the double whammy. :laugh

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 12:46
WHS - The DUP and the minority of hard-Brexit Tory MPs (about 25% I believe) now hold the whip hand in any important Brexit-related votes

So those Remainers like milan gloating about the result might find their hilarity somewhat premature :laugh

Funny how this place has turned into a bear pit. It's like the internet as a whole. CUK used to be one of the few boards where people all rubbed along together now long since past.

It used to be the case that you'd have a bit of a moan down the pub to your friends that that would be the sum total. Today it's turned into a quasi religious quest pursued via a keyboard. The internet - good for shopping and hobbies - shi5e for most other things.

jamesbrown
9th June 2017, 12:46
It's going to be super hard Brexit now.

Tories will adopt scorched earth policy.

HTH

Both the Tories and Labour were agreed on leaving the SM. The main difference was the CU and the weighting of FoM vs. economic concerns (although it isn't clear such a trade-off is even available). The DUP are looking to leave the SM and the CU, but avoid a hard border.

It's added some cloud to the timetable and who will be negotiating (and for what), but I would expect a Tory leadership contest over the summer recess, followed by another GE in September/October, so it's too early to talk about impacts. It is worth noting, however, that, when polled, very few people identified Brexit as their no. 1 concern (i.e. basically just the ~20-25% of hardcore Remainers). This is testament to the similar messages from Corbyn and May about the nature of Brexit (as perceived by the average voter). Reversing or significantly watering down Brexit isn't likely; I certainly can't see the Tories standing on that mandate after the debacle of the recent manifesto. :laugh Very fluid situation, though, over the next few months...

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 12:48
Both the Tories and Labour were agreed on leaving the SM. The main difference was the CU and the weighting of FoM vs. economic concerns (although it isn't clear such a trade-off is even available). The DUP are looking to leave the SM and the CU, but avoid a hard border.

It's added some cloud to the timetable and who will be negotiating (and for what), but I would expect a Tory leadership contest over the summer recess, followed by another GE in September/October, so it's too early to talk about impacts. It is worth noting, however, that, when polled, very few people identified Brexit as their no. 1 concern (i.e. basically just the ~20-25% of hardcore Remainers). This is testament to the similar messages from Corbyn and May about the nature of Brexit (as perceived by the average voter). Reversing or significantly watering down Brexit isn't likely; I certainly can't see the Tories standing on that mandate after the debacle of the recent manifesto. :laugh Very fluid situation, though, over the next few months...

Nick Clegg was saying pretty much this a few hours ago. Poor Clegg.

I'm pretty sure you're right with your other comments too.

sasguru
9th June 2017, 12:48
Both the Tories and Labour were agreed on leaving the SM. The main difference was the CU and the weighting of FoM vs. economic concerns (although it isn't clear such a trade-off is even available). The DUP are looking to leave the SM and the CU, but avoid a hard border.

It's added some cloud to the timetable and who will be negotiating (and for what), but I would expect a Tory leadership contest over the summer recess, followed by another GE in September/October, so it's too early to talk about impacts. It is worth noting, however, that, when polled, very few people identified Brexit as their no. 1 concern (i.e. basically just the ~20-25% of hardcore Remainers). This is testament to the similar messages from Corbyn and May about the nature of Brexit (as perceived by the average voter). Reversing or significantly watering down Brexit isn't likely; I certainly can't see the Tories standing on that mandate after the debacle of the recent manifesto. :laugh Very fluid situation, though, over the next few months...

I think you should give up the forecasting game, you've no talent for it :laugh:laugh:laugh

milanbenes
9th June 2017, 12:50
Funny how this place has turned into a bear pit. It's like the internet as a whole. CUK used to be one of the few boards where people all rubbed along together now long since past.

It used to be the case that you'd have a bit of a moan down the pub to your friends that that would be the sum total. Today it's turned into a quasi religious quest pursued via a keyboard. The internet - good for shopping and hobbies - shi5e for most other things.



we don't mean it

it's just banter

group hug everybody

Milan.

AtW
9th June 2017, 12:52
Both the Tories and Labour were agreed on leaving the SM. The main difference was the CU and the weighting of FoM vs. economic concerns (although it isn't clear such a trade-off is even available). The DUP are looking to leave the SM and the CU, but avoid a hard border.

It's added some cloud to the timetable and who will be negotiating (and for what), but I would expect a Tory leadership contest over the summer recess, followed by another GE in September/October, so it's too early to talk about impacts. It is worth noting, however, that, when polled, very few people identified Brexit as their no. 1 concern (i.e. basically just the ~20-25% of hardcore Remainers). This is testament to the similar messages from Corbyn and May about the nature of Brexit (as perceived by the average voter). Reversing or significantly watering down Brexit isn't likely; I certainly can't see the Tories standing on that mandate after the debacle of the recent manifesto. :laugh Very fluid situation, though, over the next few months...

If they cause another election to happen earlier than 2022 then they are fooking morons - next election will be Korbyn landslide.

sasguru
9th June 2017, 12:52
Funny how this place has turned into a bear pit. It's like the internet as a whole. CUK used to be one of the few boards where people all rubbed along together now long since past.

It used to be the case that you'd have a bit of a moan down the pub to your friends that that would be the sum total. Today it's turned into a quasi religious quest pursued via a keyboard. The internet - good for shopping and hobbies - shi5e for most other things.

Oooh 'ark at the lickle snowflake. If you ask Admin nicely maybe he'll create a password controlled thread, just for you to have a safe space.
:laugh:laugh:laugh

AtW
9th June 2017, 12:53
Funny how this place has turned into a bear pit. It's like the internet as a whole. CUK used to be one of the few boards where people all rubbed along together now long since past.

This happened because of Tory Scum divided the country using their proxy scum UKIP

HTH

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 13:01
Oooh 'ark at the lickle snowflake. If you ask Admin nicely maybe he'll create a password controlled thread, just for you to have a safe space.
:laugh:laugh:laugh

Fairly average for you.

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 13:03
This happened because of Tory Scum divided the country using their proxy scum UKIP

HTH

Nope. It's what's known as a democracy. Perhaps we should run things like they do in Russia?

Mordac
9th June 2017, 13:06
we don't mean it

it's just banter

group hug everybody

Milan.

Group hug, but SAStwat can **********. right off.
:hug:

sasguru
9th June 2017, 13:09
Group hug, but SAStwat can **********. right off.
:hug:

Ah did I hurt your feelings, snowflake?
Dunno why as I haven't responded to any of your posts today.
Go and lie down in a darkened room, that should help?:D

sal
9th June 2017, 13:10
The DUP are looking to leave the SM and the CU, but avoid a hard border.


Do they have a proposed solution on how this can work in the real world, giving their commitment against special status for NI? Or is it just more wishful thinking like the rest of the Brexit "strategy"?

milanbenes
9th June 2017, 13:11
Do they have a proposed solution on how this can work in the real world, giving their commitment against special status for NI? Or is it just more wishful thinking like the rest of the Brexit "strategy"?

that does not compute

SoftBorder = Single Market for me

Milan.

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 13:14
Do they have a proposed solution on how this can work in the real world, giving their commitment against special status for NI? Or is it just more wishful thinking like the rest of the Brexit "strategy"?

How about no one on the Island of Ireland wants it be that politicians or the people? Nor does the British Government. I suspect it'll be fudged with something based round the long standing Common Travel Arrangement. Maybe a very soft customs posts dotted about the place like before 'The Troubles'.

Hobosapien
9th June 2017, 13:22
NI will remain open border with rest of Ireland and they'll check IDs when wanting to leave NI for mainland UK. Flights and ferrys probably already check ID of travellers so no real difference. Just need the right ID to travel. Simple. :smokin

jamesbrown
9th June 2017, 13:23
I think you should give up the forecasting game, you've no talent for it :laugh:laugh:laugh

Fair point. OTOH.


It's only an exit poll, calm down

:D

sal
9th June 2017, 13:28
How about no one on the Island of Ireland wants it be that politicians or the people? Nor does the British Government. I suspect it'll be fudged with something based round the long standing Common Travel Arrangement. Maybe a very soft customs posts dotted about the place like before 'The Troubles'.

Define soft customs spots? Arrangements that have worked before both the UK and RoI joining the EU are not going to be applicable after one of them leaves the EU, while the other remains, as the border relationship between them directly affect the rest of the EU.

I understand the desire of the entire Island of Ireland population, unfortunately there is now way to get both open/no borders and no CU/FM with EU. That's the thing - it's not to RoI and NI/UK to negotiate between them - it's up to the EU to agree to a massive backdoor.

It's either CU+SM+Open border-special status, -CU-SM+Open border+special status for NI, -CU-SM+Open border+special status for RoI, or -CU-SM-Open border-special status.

If there is a dream scenario where we could get -CU-SM+Open border-special status I (and I bet all the EU leaders) would like to hear the details.

sal
9th June 2017, 13:34
NI will remain open border with rest of Ireland and they'll check IDs when wanting to leave NI for mainland UK. Flights and ferrys probably already check ID of travellers so no real difference. Just need the right ID to travel. Simple. :smokin

People are easy, especially when you consider the fact that it's 99% Certaintm that the free movement of people (without the right to work, similar to how Bulgarians and Romanians were restricted in the first years of their EU membership) between the EU and UK will remain.

The problem is with goods and cargo, it's not as easy as checking a piece of paper and wave through. Even if the UK is desperate/stupid enough to allow such backdoor, the EU will most certainly not.

OwlHoot
9th June 2017, 13:43
This happened because of Tory Scum divided the country using their proxy scum UKIP

HTH

If only.

But a majority of UKIPers were on loan from Labour, and went back to Labour in droves when arrogant TM dissed Farage and UKIP generally.

If she had been a bit more diplomatic, and even offered a well-deserved knighthood to Farage, instead of smugly grinning when asked about this in a TV interview, she would almost certainly have won her overall majority, with the help of ex-UKIPers. :eyes

DaveB
9th June 2017, 13:51
If only.

But a majority of UKIPers were on loan from Labour, and went back to Labour in droves when arrogant TM dissed Farage and UKIP generally.

If she had been a bit more diplomatic, and even offered a well-deserved knighthood to Farage, instead of smugly grinning when asked about this in a TV interview, she would almost certainly have won her overall majority, with the help of ex-UKIPers. :eyes

Not in my constituency they didn't.

The UKIP vote evaporated and the Tory vote rose by pretty much the exact same amount.

Labour still won.

BlasterBates
9th June 2017, 13:52
The problem wasn't the UKIP vote, May got it the problem was their own supporters in the centre left them.

In other words she turned her party into a big UKIP. All the hard Brexiteers voted Tory, so there is no hidden new vote she can call upon to increase her majority.

The fact that she lost the election, means Hard Brexit has no majority, and therefore can never happen. Before the election they could spin this yarn about a huge Brexit 2/3rds majority and no-one could really argue effectively against it, but not any more.

She blew it, and as time goes on the Brexiteers will slowly fade away in their care homes.

:D

sal
9th June 2017, 13:55
She blew it, and as time goes on the Brexiteers will slowly fade away in their care homes.

:D

They won't have a choice after they forfeit their own homes to the State...

Platypus
9th June 2017, 13:56
NI will remain open border with rest of Ireland and they'll check IDs when wanting to leave NI for mainland UK. Flights and ferrys probably already check ID of travellers so no real difference. Just need the right ID to travel. Simple. :smokin

The border is about goods, not people

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 13:57
Define soft customs spots? Arrangements that have worked before both the UK and RoI joining the EU are not going to be applicable after one of them leaves the EU, while the other remains, as the border relationship between them directly affect the rest of the EU.

I understand the desire of the entire Island of Ireland population, unfortunately there is now way to get both open/no borders and no CU/FM with EU. That's the thing - it's not to RoI and NI/UK to negotiate between them - it's up to the EU to agree to a massive backdoor.

It's either CU+SM+Open border-special status, -CU-SM+Open border+special status for NI, -CU-SM+Open border+special status for RoI, or -CU-SM-Open border-special status.

If there is a dream scenario where we could get -CU-SM+Open border-special status I (and I bet all the EU leaders) would like to hear the details.

So it's down to whether the EU decide on special status or not. CU and SM are hard to comment on given nothing has been decided, but any customs border would require checkpoints. We're not talking armed checkpoints though. Checks for movement of people could be handled at ports and airports a la Calais both into RoI and GB – admittedly you could enter RoI and travel to NI on false pretences.

However, given the political risk attached to any border for FM, the EU already stating that its commitment to peace, massive financial risk to one of its member states and a basic framework in the CTA why wouldn't there be some kind of special set-up purely for RoI/NI?

sasguru
9th June 2017, 13:58
If only.

But a majority of UKIPers were on loan from Labour, and went back to Labour in droves when arrogant TM dissed Farage and UKIP generally.

If she had been a bit more diplomatic, and even offered a well-deserved knighthood to Farage, instead of smugly grinning when asked about this in a TV interview, she would almost certainly have won her overall majority, with the help of ex-UKIPers. :eyes

Complete garbage.
All the Kippers voted Tory, since theyre all stupid enough to want a hard Brexit, and since they have no idea what it will do to the economy.
The Tories lost their Remainer contigent, of which I am an example.
In my constituency, one of the safest in the country, always Tory since time began, the Tory majority was slashed from 20000 to 10000, even though the MP is an excellent MP.
I can just see that repeated in more marginal seats cost the Tories dearly.
No students or poor people here in general, just Remainers showing their anger.

eek
9th June 2017, 14:01
Complete garbage.
All the Kippers voted Tory, since theyre all stupid enough to want a hard Brexit, and since they have no idea what it will do to the economy.
The Tories lost their Remainer contigent, of which I am an example.
In my constituency, one of the safest in the country, always Tory since time began, the Tory majority was slashed from 20000 to 10000, even though the MP is an excellent MP.
I can just see that repeated in more marginal seats cost the Tories dearly.
No students or poor people here in general, just Remainers showing their anger.

Not quite, it's people with a lot of equity in their house saying feck you to the dementia tax

Hobosapien
9th June 2017, 14:02
The border is about goods, not people

They can handle it same as they do for the massive border around mainland EU. Not like they've put up fences all around that.

Besides there will be an agreement to allow cross border movement of goods and people as part of the UK/EU relationship so nothing to worry about.

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 14:02
Not quite, it's people with a lot of equity in their house saying feck you to the dementia tax

Wouldn't they lose the lot under current arrangements?

sasguru
9th June 2017, 14:05
Not quite, it's people with a lot of equity in their house saying feck you to the dementia tax

There was an element of that to be fair.
I think there are 3 elements to this surprise result:

1. Large youth turnout
2. Tactical voting from Remainers
3. Pissed off old Tories worried about pensions and dementia tax.

AtW
9th June 2017, 14:08
There was an element of that to be fair.
I think there are 3 elements to this surprise result:

1. Large youth turnout
2. Tactical voting from Remainers
3. Pissed off old Tories worried about pensions and dementia tax.
4. Pissed off young Tories fooked off about hike in dividend taxation

FTFY

sasguru
9th June 2017, 14:08
Wouldn't they lose the lot under current arrangements?

It wasn't explicitly stated (or at least got drowned by other stuff).
But the Tories mentioned they were going to do it. Why? I think you need to ask yourself that question ....:laugh:laugh

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 14:12
It wasn't explicitly stated (or at least got drowned by other stuff).
But the Tories mentioned they were going to do it. Why? I think you need to ask yourself that question ....:laugh:laugh

It should have been which was an obvious mistake.

sal
9th June 2017, 14:17
So it's down to whether the EU decide on special status or not. CU and SM are hard to comment on given nothing has been decided, but any customs border would require checkpoints. We're not talking armed checkpoints though. Checks for movement of people could be handled at ports and airports a la Calais both into RoI and GB – admittedly you could enter RoI and travel to NI on false pretences.

However, given the political risk attached to any border for FM, the EU already stating that its commitment to peace, massive financial risk to one of its member states and a basic framework in the CTA why wouldn't there be some kind of special set-up purely for RoI/NI?

DUP have declared against any kind of special status for NI as it will alienate it from the rest of the UK, which is their biggest market and they are right. Which leaves RoI to accept similar special status which will in turn alienate it from the rest of the EU which is their biggest market, so I doubt they are going to be happy with that, even if the rest of the EU somehow agrees.

You can't check cargo/goods only at entry points like airports/Ports ala Calais as this will ignore the goods manufactured in RoI that have to be exported to the NI/UK or the one manufactured in NI to be exported to the RoI/EU. And most importantly will ignore the goods that are freely imported to RoI/NI from their own "side" only to move freely across the border.

So you need checks on ALL goods both entering and leaving the Island - not gonna happen, or checks on ALL goods moving across the NI/RoI border - can't happen without proper checkpoints and associated queues - no one wants that.

Any attempt of "soft" border, automation or checks on sample portion of the goods traffic are going to turn the Island into a smuggler's paradise (I envision 10 fold increase in the import of Champagne, Prosecco and German cars to RoI for "domestic" use).

Something has got to give. Since all parties - Ireland, UK and EU are committed to keep the peace on the island, the logical conclusion is that CU and SM are here to stay.

The_Equalizer
9th June 2017, 14:19
...Something has got to give. Since all parties - Ireland, UK and EU are committed to keep the peace on the island, the logical conclusion is that CU and SM are here to stay.

Fair enough. So the question is who blinks first?

VectraMan
9th June 2017, 14:20
The problem wasn't the UKIP vote, May got it the problem was their own supporters in the centre left them.

:wave:

The good news, from an anti-brexit perspective, is that the electorate turned away from the ideological fantasy that is Brexit and made it about the things that really matter. That means May (or whoever) can't simply push through Brexit at all costs safe in the knowledge the public are so blinded by Brexit they'll accept anything, but rather the politicians will actually have to deliver on the promises.

The other issue is that a weak government is more prone to being influenced. Every Tory MP now counts, and could theoretically bring down the government, and the business world who want to see a soft Brexit are surely going to be more successful putting pressure on the government. And for all us disagreeing with the damaging direction they're taking there's more to be gained in keeping up the pressure, even if (for the moment anyway) it looks like the opposition would do the same.

And let's not forget: every day that goes by, more Leavers die off, more Remainers come of age.

sal
9th June 2017, 14:24
They can handle it same as they do for the massive border around mainland EU. Not like they've put up fences all around that.

Besides there will be an agreement to allow cross border movement of goods and people as part of the UK/EU relationship so nothing to worry about.

The massive border around the mainland EU might not include fences (at least not everywhere), but there are still armed patrols and check points for cargo/passengers checks and often mile long queues of lories.

Cross-border agreement like the CU/SM that the UK is determined to leave?

AtW
9th June 2017, 14:25
Something has got to give. Since all parties - Ireland, UK and EU are committed to keep the peace on the island, the logical conclusion is that CU and SM are here to stay.

Tory Govt does not do logical...

AtW
9th June 2017, 14:26
The good news, from an anti-brexit perspective, is that the electorate turned away from the ideological fantasy that is Brexit and made it about the things that really matter.

Problem is - those things will be paid by massively increased taxes (on us) and debt (which we'll have to pay).

motoukenin
9th June 2017, 14:40
DUP have declared against any kind of special status for NI as it will alienate it from the rest of the UK, which is their biggest market and they are right. Which leaves RoI to accept similar special status which will in turn alienate it from the rest of the EU which is their biggest market, so I doubt they are going to be happy with that, even if the rest of the EU somehow agrees.

You can't check cargo/goods only at entry points like airports/Ports ala Calais as this will ignore the goods manufactured in RoI that have to be exported to the NI/UK or the one manufactured in NI to be exported to the RoI/EU. And most importantly will ignore the goods that are freely imported to RoI/NI from their own "side" only to move freely across the border.

So you need checks on ALL goods both entering and leaving the Island - not gonna happen, or checks on ALL goods moving across the NI/RoI border - can't happen without proper checkpoints and associated queues - no one wants that.

Any attempt of "soft" border, automation or checks on sample portion of the goods traffic are going to turn the Island into a smuggler's paradise (I envision 10 fold increase in the import of Champagne, Prosecco and German cars to RoI for "domestic" use).

Something has got to give. Since all parties - Ireland, UK and EU are committed to keep the peace on the island, the logical conclusion is that CU and SM are here to stay.

They were talking about having a customs check for NI in England, so any goods would need to be exported from England and any goods destined for NI have to come in to England, but I think that was an on going discussion.

sal
9th June 2017, 14:49
They were talking about having a customs check for NI in England, so any goods would need to be exported from England and any goods destined for NI have to come in to England, but I think that was an on going discussion.

Who are "they"? What you describe is the so called special status for NI, with one foot in UK and one in EU that (as I already pointed out several times) DUP are strongly against.

And I guess by England you meant Great Britain, there is more to the UK than England and NI...

Mordac
9th June 2017, 15:21
Ah did I hurt your feelings, snowflake?
Dunno why as I haven't responded to any of your posts today.
Go and lie down in a darkened room, that should help?:D

Hurt my feelings? I don't have any feelings, you muppet, I voted to Leave, remember?

PS - the snowflake bit I'll take as a compliment, although I'm sure it was intended to cause offence. You'll have to up your game, though I'm sure you have it in you to to improve.

OwlHoot
9th June 2017, 15:23
Complete garbage.

All the Kippers voted Tory, since theyre all stupid enough to want a hard Brexit, and since they have no idea what it will do to the economy.
The Tories lost their Remainer contigent, of which I am an example.
In my constituency, one of the safest in the country, always Tory since time began, the Tory majority was slashed from 20000 to 10000, even though the MP is an excellent MP.
I can just see that repeated in more marginal seats cost the Tories dearly.
No students or poor people here in general, just Remainers showing their anger.

2017-06-09 DONE UP LIKE UKIPPER How the Tory bid to scoop up all the Ukip votes failed – with Labour cashing in instead (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3758672/northern-ukip-vote-flock-back-to-labour/)



With Ukip votes up for grabs in the aftermath of the EU Referendum, many predicted voters would turn blue – fuelling speculation of a Tory landslide.

But results prove Labour has won over northern Ukippers who have turned against May’s plans for Brexit (because these plans are too "soft" - OH). ...

I know it's easy to forget, in your south eastern Remainer bubble, but there's more to the UK than Londonstan.

northernladyuk
9th June 2017, 15:23
Fair enough. So the question is who blinks first?

The Tory / DUP government collapses, there is another election and we try again.

Have to get the Tory leadership election out of the way first.

sal
9th June 2017, 15:27
The Tory / DUP government collapses, there is another election and we try again.

Have to get the Tory leadership election out of the way first.

Meanwhile the Brexit bill increases to include the wasted time of all the EU negotiators that are on standby for the UK to get its tulip together and start the negotiations. tick-tock, tick-tock

northernladyuk
9th June 2017, 15:31
Meanwhile the Brexit bill increases to include the wasted time of all the EU negotiators that are on standby for the UK to get its tulip together and start the negotiations. tick-tock, tick-tock

And the EU is ordering more drinks from the bar while the tab is open.

BlasterBates
9th June 2017, 18:22
Letter to the Prime Minister revealing the Brexit stance of the DUP (http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/815141/Election-2017-DUP-Theresa-May-Arlene-Foster-Brexit-coalition)

:D :D :D :D

There is Hard Brexit, then there is a Medium Brexit, then there is a Soft Brexit, then there's a very Soft Brexit and then there is the Brexit that the DUP want.

:laugh

Mordac
9th June 2017, 18:33
Letter to the Prime Minister revealing the Brexit stance of the DUP (http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/815141/Election-2017-DUP-Theresa-May-Arlene-Foster-Brexit-coalition)

:D :D :D :D

There is Hard Brexit, then there is a Medium Brexit, then there is a Soft Brexit, then there's a very Soft Brexit and then there is the Brexit that the DUP want.

:laugh

Are you sure it was a letter to the PM? It sounds like an order for a selection of cheeses. :confused:

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 07:18
well what a mess it's all become

May has her own coalition of chaos

Corbyn is predicting another General Election this year

and Brexit, thankfully is well and truly skuppered which is nice

Milan.

BrilloPad
12th June 2017, 07:20
Braxit, thankfully is well and truly skuppered which is nice


A50 was triggered.

Are you still trying for cretin of the year award? You have stiff competition.

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 07:22
A50 was triggered.

Are you still trying for cretin of the year award? You have stiff competition.


very good

ok, back to business

do you really believe A50 is the end of the story ?

Milan.

BrilloPad
12th June 2017, 07:27
very good

ok, back to business

do you really believe A50 is the end of the story ?

Milan.

Of course not! A50 was the beginning.

The EU has to make the UK suffer. Its their only goal. Whether we leave or try to rejoin. The vast majority of EU citizens don't want that. They want the best deal for the EU.

The UK are getting very fed up with the ruling classes who don't care about the vast majority of the population. And the EU got caught in the crossfire.

I am still wondering what will happen next! Would be fascinating if not for the fact that the UK will suffer.

The only thing we can be sure of is that the rich-poor gap will widen.

Your thoughts on what happens next?

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 07:30
Of course not! A50 was the beginning.

The EU has to make the UK suffer. Its their only goal. Whether we leave or try to rejoin. The vast majority of EU citizens don't want that. They want the best deal for the EU.

The UK are getting very fed up with the ruling classes who don't care about the vast majority of the population. And the EU got caught in the crossfire.

I am still wondering what will happen next! Would be fascinating if not for the fact that the UK will suffer.

The only thing we can be sure of is that the rich-poor gap will widen.

Your thoughts on what happens next?


well, what to say, we used to sit at the top table in the EU, we had the best conditions of all the members of the top table and then we said we'd leave

what do we expect ?

Milan.

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 07:33
Of course not! A50 was the beginning.

The EU has to make the UK suffer. Its their only goal. Whether we leave or try to rejoin. The vast majority of EU citizens don't want that. They want the best deal for the EU.

The UK are getting very fed up with the ruling classes who don't care about the vast majority of the population. And the EU got caught in the crossfire.

I am still wondering what will happen next! Would be fascinating if not for the fact that the UK will suffer.

The only thing we can be sure of is that the rich-poor gap will widen.

Your thoughts on what happens next?


and to be clear the vast majority of EU citizens would like Britain in, and stability

Milan.

BlasterBates
12th June 2017, 07:34
Lots of infighting in the Tory party until either "Soft Brexit" is agreed or they implode and split asunder to stay out of power for a generation, leaving Labour in power for the forseeable future.

BrilloPad
12th June 2017, 07:59
and to be clear the vast majority of EU citizens would like Britain in, and stability

Milan.

Agreed. The leaders of the Tory Party have alot to answer for.

Paddy
12th June 2017, 08:03
Agreed. The leaders of the Tory Party have alot to answer for.

The same goes for those who voted for Brexit. Much damage has been done already.

BlasterBates
12th June 2017, 08:05
I still maintain the UK is heading for a "Switzerland" model, but the DUP alliance complicates the picture and the UK may end up inside the customs union. Inside the customs union you still arrange your own trade deals, it's just the EU have to sign off.

BrilloPad
12th June 2017, 08:05
The same goes for those who voted for Brexit. Much damage has been done already.

My contention is that the majority of those who voted Brexit were not voting Brexit. They were registering a protest vote at inequality.

I could well be totally wrong. I usually am.....

BrilloPad
12th June 2017, 08:06
I still maintain the UK is heading for a "Switzerland" model.

Tax haven?


:eyes

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 08:33
My contention is that the majority of those who voted Brexit were not voting Brexit. They were registering a protest vote at inequality.

I could well be totally wrong. I usually am.....


Brillo, totally agree

and that's the root of the problem, and what has contributed to this whole mess, along with the hard core Brexiters not accepting the position, "the majority of those who voted Brexit were not voting Brexit. They were registering a protest vote at inequality", and then the PM going feet first for a hard Brexit

perfect storm

Milan.

VectraMan
12th June 2017, 08:36
David Davies said on the telly this morning that it is a soft Brexit they're seeking, and that the election wasn't a mistake as they now have 5 years to negotiate it.

Paddy
12th June 2017, 08:39
David Davies said on the telly this morning that it is a soft Brexit they're seeking, and that the election wasn't a mistake as they now have 5 years to negotiate it.

:laugh coffee over the screen moment.

Big Blue Plymouth
12th June 2017, 08:49
Lots of infighting in the Tory party until either "Soft Brexit" is agreed or they implode and split asunder to stay out of power for a generation, leaving Labour in power for the forseeable future.

Or until they bring the country to its knees again, enough people see sense and it all comes full circle and the nasty Tories are voted in to fix the mess.

BrilloPad
12th June 2017, 08:56
David Davies said on the telly this morning that it is a soft Brexit they're seeking, and that the election wasn't a mistake as they now have 5 years to negotiate it.

I think he means 5 months. Until the next election.