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View Full Version : Public Sector Rules, coming to you soon...



MarkT
5th July 2017, 13:27
So who's excited about this? I am. Any glimpse as to whether the new spend spend spend era of Conservatism is going to be funded almost entirely by contractors?

DotasScandal
5th July 2017, 13:51
Until they run out of contractors to milk. Which could come very quickly - politicians being notoriously inept at predicting the consequences of their actions on the behavior of economic agents.
As far as I'm concerned, the implosion of the UK cannot come soon enough.

eek
5th July 2017, 13:57
So who's excited about this? I am. Any glimpse as to whether the new spend spend spend era of Conservatism is going to be funded almost entirely by contractors?

The private sector will be a lot less accommodating than the public sector has been in implementing the rules.

As I've stated for a while the things to watch out for is not IR35 but the Taylor Review recommendations....

BrilloPad
5th July 2017, 14:03
The private sector will be a lot less accommodating than the public sector has been in implementing the rules.

As I've stated for a while the things to watch out for is not IR35 but the Taylor Review recommendations....

This is then one that looks into "rights of self-employed and gig-economy workers"? And actually makes matters worse for them?

A shame they don't look at CT loopholes.

The government just want Accenture Androids and Cr4p Capitas to get the money. While they keep their kickbacks of course....

TheFaQQer
5th July 2017, 14:10
The guidance for public sector has been re-drafted and will be published this week.

BrilloPad
5th July 2017, 14:14
The guidance for public sector has been re-drafted and will be published this week.

Inneresting. Any idea what is coming up in them?

eek
5th July 2017, 14:16
This is then one that looks into "rights of self-employed and gig-economy workers"? And actually makes matters worse for them?

A shame they don't look at CT loopholes.

The government just want Accenture Androids and Cr4p Capitas to get the money. While they keep their kickbacks of course....

That depends on your viewpoint. There are a fair few gig workers who have approached unions to try and improve their lot in life...

Someone commented (elsewhere) today that the economy has been hollowed out and work is now minimum wage or £40k plus and there is little in between... I think that viewpoint is very valid...

BrilloPad
5th July 2017, 14:18
That depends on your viewpoint. There are a fair few gig workers who have approached unions to try and improve their lot in life...

Someone commented (elsewhere) today that the economy has been hollowed out and work is now minimum wage or £40k plus and there is little in between... I think that viewpoint is very valid...

Agreed. And it seems to be hitting productivity.

midlandlass
5th July 2017, 15:42
Due out today or tomorrow, according to an email received today at 14:32...

As you have previously shown an interest in off-payroll working reforms, we thought you would be interested to read that HMRC has re-drafted our guidance for off-payroll working (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/off-payroll-working-in-the-public-sector-reform-of-intermediaries-legislation). We expect it to be published today or tomorrow on the off-payroll working guidance pages of GOV.UK.

We will send you a further email with the revised link once it becomes available.

Kind regards

HMRC, Employment Status & Intermediaries Policy Team.

Guesstimator
7th July 2017, 09:14
No news as yet then?

midlandlass
7th July 2017, 09:21
No.. it is still showing the last update as 10 May 2017 :ohwell but then there is no surprise there really!

Guesstimator
7th July 2017, 09:28
Okie doke, thank you for replying...I know I'm a lazy sod and I could've looked myself...

midlandlass
7th July 2017, 09:56
Okie doke, thank you for replying...I know I'm a lazy sod and I could've looked myself...

Don't worry I am wouldn't be as rude as to suggest that :laugh

TheFaQQer
7th July 2017, 13:20
The guidance has been updated today.

Looks like a complete re-write of the page, removing lots of stuff (eg the whole section of "Roles" has been removed), plus giving some more explicit indicators around what is a public sector body than were there before (previous version was a bit vague). It's a shorter page now by a fair amount.

In terms of what is actually in there, I can't see anything "new" (ie different from my existing understanding of the rules).

northernladuk
7th July 2017, 13:46
Does it go any way to addressing bodies that are using blanket determinations?

midlandlass
7th July 2017, 14:06
Does it go any way to addressing bodies that are using blanket determinations?
Don't you have time to read it? :tongue

The update on the page says the following:
7 July 2017
Updated to explain what a public authority is and what they need to do to follow the off-payroll working rules.

TheFaQQer
7th July 2017, 14:33
Does it go any way to addressing bodies that are using blanket determinations?

No.

I'm not sure what guidance could be given to "address" bodies that are using blanket decisions beyond "don't do this". The note says "As a public authority, you’ll need to decide if the off payroll working rules apply and tell the worker, or the agency or other labour provider who supplies the worker, if they apply. You’ll need to do this before the contract or the work starts (whichever is later)." but nothing around blanket decisions.

And as I've said before, there may be a case where what appears to be a blanket decision is valid and there are bigger blankets that aren't valid. For example, an organisation may decide that all first line support workers are engaged and work in the same way and are inside IR35 - because the nature of the role is likely to be very similar (or even identical) then a blanket decision in that case may be perfectly valid. What isn't valid is for an organisation to say "all our contractors are inside" because they have failed the duty of care which is contained within the legislation.

One interesting section from the guidance note is this:


If the person you have a contract with asks for the reasons behind your decision in writing, you must respond within 31 days. If you don’t, you’ll become responsible for paying the tax and NICs due.

So if the PSB decides you are inside, you should ALWAYS ask for an explanation behind that decision.