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View Full Version : Vote for us and we'll wipe the debt away...



AtW
9th July 2017, 15:39
Or at least 'aim' to do it...

Labour 'aim' to wipe £100bn student debt - Angela Rayner - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40547740)

administrator
9th July 2017, 15:42
Or at least 'aim' to do it...

Labour 'aim' to wipe £100bn student debt - Angela Rayner - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40547740)

Like all their other policies, based on the magic money tree. Still, it's only 100 times the amount the con's paid the religious nutters to back them so I guess the money could be found. Simple solution for tuition fees, grade A levels sensibly and don't let anyone below a certain grade take a degree. And if it's for an Arts subject fees should be two times the current amount. It's the only way we can "make Britain great again".

MarillionFan
9th July 2017, 15:45
Like all their other policies, based on the magic money tree. Still, it's only 100 times the amount the con's paid the religious nutters to back them so I guess the money could be found. Simple solution for tuition fees, grade A levels sensibly and don't let anyone below a certain grade take a degree. And if it's for an Arts subject fees should be two times the current amount. It's the only way we can "make Britain great again".

Labour don't have a magic money tree. They seem to have a magic money forest.

BrilloPad
9th July 2017, 15:48
Good idea. Print the money. Hyper inflation. Stuff the oldies.

In a democracy people will always vote for an easy life. Democracy always fails in the end.

MarillionFan
9th July 2017, 15:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wjXpTDuHiE

This is how Momentum & the Millenials plan to deal with the oldies.

scooterscot
9th July 2017, 17:08
Most of that debt will never be repaid as many graduates often avoid doing do with the repayment threshold being so high. So wiping the debt away promise is already half filled.

vetran
9th July 2017, 17:28
Most of that debt will never be repaid as many graduates often avoid doing do with the repayment threshold being so high. So wiping the debt away promise is already half filled.

£21k is high?

MarillionFan
9th July 2017, 18:41
£21k is high?

Yep, if you studied Humanities.

xoggoth
9th July 2017, 18:54
So wiping the debt away promise is already half filled

The "cost estimates" I've seen allow for that but what is not allowed for is that the numbers of students will inevitably rise and the cost of that rise is not just of providing more courses but loss of NI/tax they would have paid and increased difficulty for firms to find suitable employees.

Other Corbyn policies are just expensive unnecessary bribes as well. Three examples that spring to mind:
1) The triple lock on pensions - rising with cost of living is enough.
2) The fuel allowance - why give that to those who are well off?
3) Abolishing "the bedroom tax". Fair enough to exempt some, eg who have medical problems or recently lost a partner, but there is no general justification for the state paying for people to live in unnecessarily large properties.

Wait if this idiot gets in, I think anyone who is not a state-supported non-contributor will regret it after a few years.

darmstadt
9th July 2017, 19:47
3) Abolishing "the bedroom tax". Fair enough to exempt some, eg who have medical problems or recently lost a partner, but there is no general justification for the state paying for people to live in unnecessarily large properties.



Starting here:

https://cdn.londonandpartners.com/visit/london-organisations/buckingham-palace/100222-640x360-buckingham-palace-at-dusk-640.jpg

http://www.balmoralcastle.com/picts/pages/admissions.jpg

http://www.windsor.gov.uk/imageresizer/?image=%2Fdmsimgs%2FWC%20image%203_1400_1340923221 .jpg&action=ProductMain

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03045/Chequers_3045816k.jpg

chopper
9th July 2017, 20:07
The story surfaced a few weeks ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jun/15/uk-student-loan-debt-soars-to-more-than-100bn

The total Student Debt outstanding is £100bn. Much of this will be written off anyway, as it is written off after 30 years and many students will not even pay a penny back (by earning under the threshold), and many more will not pay all of it back. Apparently, the figure is around 2/3 of students who will not finish paying it back.

https://www.ft.com/content/55f4a6f6-3eab-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a

So nothing is paid back when earning below £21k, and repayments are 9% of anything earned above £21k.

According to that FT article, the average student debt is now £44k. In order to pay it back within 30 years, you would need to be earning £37k per year.

PLENTY of graduates wont even earn the £21k, never mind £37k.

To me, there is an argument that crapper degrees should be more expensive than degrees which will provide real value to the future of the UK, such as real science and engineering degrees. Lets nurture true talent, whilst encouraging those who just see university as a taxpayer funded extra three years before entering the real world to actually just get a job.

xoggoth
9th July 2017, 20:10
Starting here:

I actually have to agree with you on that one. How can we tackle excess welfare when these people are getting undeserved wealth and influence by reason of birth? Abolish the monarchy and elect the House of Lords.

Hopefully, once that ghastly twat the Prince of Daftness becomes king, there will be a rise in republicanism.

darmstadt
9th July 2017, 20:21
I thought that the government had sold off student loans debt: https://www.ft.com/content/2b66bfaa-ec7a-11e6-930f-061b01e23655?mhq5j=e1

scooterscot
9th July 2017, 20:41
In some ways the UK resembles the USSR in the years leading up to 1989.

The gigantic and unaffordable arms bill, the crumbling and distressed housing often a short distance from enclaves of great wealth, collapsing infrastructure (bridges, roads etc...) with no money to rebuild them and an economy in debt up to its eyeballs.

Add to that, a corrupt political system based on what are effectively bribes, a wealthy elite who resemble the apparatchiks and, in the case of the conservatives, an economic ideology that is so tied up with vested interests and the survival and wealth of the apparatchiks that is cannot ever be modified. Yet, it fails so many people and casts many to the wolves.

woohoo
9th July 2017, 20:45
In some ways the UK resembles the USSR in the years leading up to 1989.

The gigantic and unaffordable arms bill, the crumbling and distressed housing often a short distance from enclaves of great wealth, collapsing infrastructure (bridges, roads etc...) with no money to rebuild them and an economy in debt up to its eyeballs.

Add to that, a corrupt political system based on what are effectively bribes, a wealthy elite who resemble the apparatchiks and, in the case of the conservatives, an economic ideology that is so tied up with vested interests and the survival and wealth of the apparatchiks that is cannot ever be modified. Yet, it fails so many people and casts many to the wolves.

You talk some shite, really do and then repeat and repeat it.

scooterscot
9th July 2017, 20:49
You talk some shite, really do and then repeat and repeat it.

Vetran started it.

vetran
9th July 2017, 21:25
Vetran started it.

£21k is under the national average wage and half of the higher rate tax threshold If I had deferred jobs to get a degree I would expect to reach higher rate tax pretty quickly to repay my investment.

For information I haven't earnt under the higher rate tax threshold for 25 years I don't have a degree.

SueEllen
9th July 2017, 21:38
£21k is under the national average wage and half of the higher rate tax threshold If I had deferred jobs to get a degree I would expect to reach higher rate tax pretty quickly to repay my investment.


Doesn't work with every job.

MarillionFan
9th July 2017, 21:43
£21k is under the national average wage and half of the higher rate tax threshold If I had deferred jobs to get a degree I would expect to reach higher rate tax pretty quickly to repay my investment.

For information I haven't earnt under the higher rate tax threshold for 25 years I don't have a degree.

£10 minimum wage. 40 hours a week. I'll let you do the maths and work through the stinking dodgy logic.

chopper
9th July 2017, 22:12
£10 minimum wage. 40 hours a week. I'll let you do the maths and work through the stinking dodgy logic.

vetran said average wage, not minimum wage.

UK Average Wage is £27,600. UK minimum wage is £7.50 (so about £15,600 a year for someone being paid 40 hours a week).

AtW
9th July 2017, 22:13
The real issue here is why grads won't earn a lot more than 21 grand?

vetran
9th July 2017, 22:40
Doesn't work with every job.

then they don't need a graduate.

simple as.

MarillionFan
10th July 2017, 06:48
vetran said average wage, not minimum wage.

UK Average Wage is £27,600. UK minimum wage is £7.50 (so about £15,600 a year for someone being paid 40 hours a week).

Yes but the leader of the great unwashed has mooted a £10 min wage which on a full week is lo and behold roughly that magic 21k.

So everyone should get a min of a tenner an hour and we wipe out all student debt. Even an idiot with a napkin can work out the maths behind that .

original PM
10th July 2017, 06:52
Is anyone going to point out the truth - people would prefer to get into debt and not have to work.

As opposed to getting a job, working hard and not being a burden on the state/bomad.

Fact is we need to go back to having university for the those with the brains - with an emphasis on ensuring that it is available to people from all backgrounds.

Then we have old school polytechnics teaching decent vocational careers - again ensuring that it is available to people from all backgrounds

then apprenticeships

and jobs

but they key is that no money is wasted on people doing things which really do not make britain great again

like a liberal arts degree

Hobosapien
10th July 2017, 06:57
Simple solution:

Give student grants to those on courses where there is a proven skills shortage or likely to be in the next 5 years. No debt to worry about, to attract them onto the course, and a pretty good chance of a decent job afterwards.

Charge more for courses that have little or no demand in jobs market and direct those candidates into the fields and manual labour markets to fill the gap when all the economic migrants have gone home due to brexit (and the poor pound to their preferred currency exchange rate). They'll avoid the student debt and have a paying job instead.

To allow such a simple solution to happen, sack all those useless civil servants that the government pays to come up with stupid unworkable overcomplex policies that keep them in a job.

:smokin

BrilloPad
10th July 2017, 06:58
Is anyone going to point out the truth - people would prefer to get into debt and not have to work.


I disagree with that very strongly. There is no incentive to work. The oldies have taken all the houses. No social mobility.

BrilloPad
10th July 2017, 06:59
The real issue here is why grads won't earn a lot more than 21 grand?

Unscrupulous Birmingham employers who can't even drive?

shaunbhoy
10th July 2017, 07:19
The real issue here is why grads won't earn a lot more than 21 grand?

Because in a great many cases, they have "graduated" in something that has little practical value, and in all probability are now employed in a job that they could have mastered without ever having GONE to Uni.

HTH

original PM
10th July 2017, 08:26
I disagree with that very strongly. There is no incentive to work. The oldies have taken all the houses. No social mobility.

That is such a defeatist attitude.

It is still possible to get a job at 16, work hard and be successful.

It's hard - like it was for me when I was 16.

There is plenty of social mobility it is just people nowadays have a huge sense of entitlement and lack of spine.

bobspud
10th July 2017, 08:35
That is such a defeatist attitude.

It is still possible to get a job at 16, work hard and be successful.

It's hard - like it was for me when I was 16.

There is plenty of social mobility it is just people nowadays have a huge sense of entitlement and lack of spine.

^ This

At the moment society has made the stupid mistake of thinking the only route to wealth is in an office. Quite the opposite is true. My Daughter's mate dropped out of school for not being academic and is now working on the local farms driving agricultural machines. He's earning more than most of the graduates will for some time in their career and he's only sixteen...

BrilloPad
10th July 2017, 08:41
It is still possible to get a job at 16, work hard and be successful.


I agree. However it is less likely than it was when you were 16.

Hobosapien
10th July 2017, 08:43
^ This

At the moment society has made the stupid mistake of thinking the only route to wealth is in an office. Quite the opposite is true. My Daughter's mate dropped out of school for not being academic and is now working on the local farms driving agricultural machines. He's earning more than most of the graduates will for some time in their career and he's only sixteen...


See also other manual skilled trades such as plumbers, brickies, sparkies, hair dressers. Many coining it in, some so much so you get wingers on here when their 'booked' tradesman doesn't turn up on time (or at all) as they aren't having to chase the work.

I sometimes wish I'd gone down that route and would have years and years of experience instead of having to renew my skills every time those :winker: at Microsoft (etc) decide a different way of getting data out of a database and onto a screen is the new 'best' way. :throw:

sasguru
10th July 2017, 08:49
Hilarious. All the thickos who left school at 16 with not a CSE to their name, now in non-jobs in the public sector, lining up to condemn "arts" degrees.
:laugh:laugh:laugh:rollin::rollin:
I suppose if they had paid attention to their basic arithmetic when they were about 8 years old, they would be able to work out how much Britain exports in terms of "arts and culture" exports - TV programs alone worth several billion.

Hobosapien
10th July 2017, 09:32
:laugh:laugh:laugh:rollin::rollin:

Those statistics look pretty accurate to me, for every 5 people laughing at the mugs that go to university and get loaded with 50k of debt, two of them will be rolling in it as a skilled tradesperson. The other three will just be laughing as they sponge the benefits of watching Jeremy Kyle in their tracky bottoms. :smokin

sasguru
10th July 2017, 09:40
The other three will just be laughing as they sponge the benefits of watching Jeremy Kyle in their tracky bottoms. :smokin

Indeed sounds like Original PM, SB and vetran.
Yes you may be right.

original PM
10th July 2017, 11:16
Indeed sounds like Original PM, SB and vetran.
Yes you may be right.

:ladybags:

darmstadt
26th July 2017, 19:28
So, was actually a slight untruth published by the right wing media: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/no-corbyn-did-not-pledge-to-abolish-student-debt

Which is no ******* surprise but the thicko public took it all in, they ******* deserve every ******* thing that is coming their way, ****ed up morons. Doesn't surprise me in the least with the incompetent cretins leading the country to say the least: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/25/more-than-600000-pupils-in-england-taught-by-unqualified-teachers

centurian
26th July 2017, 20:17
So, was actually a slight untruth published by the right wing media: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/no-corbyn-did-not-pledge-to-abolish-student-debt

Which is no ******* surprise but the thicko public took it all in, they ******* deserve every ******* thing that is coming their way, ****ed up morons. Doesn't surprise me in the least with the incompetent cretins leading the country to say the least: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/25/more-than-600000-pupils-in-england-taught-by-unqualified-teachers

Err - I just read that - and it seems to validate the underlying accusation....

I don't think many on the right claim that he pledged to abolish student debt.

But he was misleading - I believe unintentionally. But when it became apparent that people were jumping to conclusions - he did absolutely nothing to clarify his words. To quote from the link you provided above.


“There is a block of those that currently have a massive debt, and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden.”

He added: “I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage – I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all of this. But I’m very well aware of that problem.

“And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.”

It's the bottom paragraph which was most quoted - but even in it's entirety, he strongly hints that he's going to reduce student debt - and it really isn't that much of a jump to think that he's going to erase it.

But once he realised how his words were being interpreted, he had plenty of opportunity to clarify what he meant - did he - did he hell.

xoggoth
26th July 2017, 20:24
Centurian is quite right. It is not a categorical promise but anyone reading that would think there was a very good chance that he would eliminate or reduce the debt. It was more the means he was unsure about.

northernladyuk
26th July 2017, 20:31
Centurian is quite right. It is not a categorical promise but anyone reading that would think there was a very good chance that he would eliminate or reduce the debt. It was more the means he was unsure about.

He is going to use the 350 million per week.

vetran
26th July 2017, 20:49
Indeed sounds like Original PM, SB and vetran.
Yes you may be right.

Sorry no our spouses don't fund our crayon supply like yours does, remind me who do you work for? Private business or is it the NHS?