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View Full Version : Time to stop talking about Brexit and move on



sasguru
21st July 2017, 08:19
Yes I think so. What is done is done.
Those of us who can make escape plans have done so, those who can't or won't must live with it.
The only people I feel sorry for are Remainers who can't leave, but a large majority are young and educated and probably have that option.

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 08:22
Yes I think so. What is done is done.
Those of us who can make escape plans have done so, those who can't or won't must live with it.
The only people I feel sorry for are Remainers who can't leave.

The gentleman doth protest too much.

I suspect you are royally f****d by brexit. You are keeping quiet why, but the number of your brexit posts is too high for someone not badly affected.

Is your mail order wife going to be deported back to Romania?

Come on, spill the beans...

sasguru
21st July 2017, 08:26
The gentleman doth protest too much.

I suspect you are royally f****d by brexit. You are keeping quiet why, but the number of your brexit posts is too high for someone not badly affected.

Is your mail order wife going to be deported back to Romania?

Come on, spill the beans...

I don't want my Mercedes scratched by the gibbering, poor masses post Brexit.
It's pure self interest that inequality should not rise, but Brexit will cause that.
And oddly I don't like my country going down the drain - odd that, hey?

oscarose
21st July 2017, 08:29
What is done is done.


+1

This gb-exit nonsense ain't gonna happen - enough is enough... :confused:

Revoke A-50 asap - gb-exiters, you were duped by Farage et al...accept and move on like adults... :smokin

SueEllen
21st July 2017, 08:30
The gentleman doth protest too much.

I suspect you are royally f****d by brexit. You are keeping quiet why, but the number of your brexit posts is too high for someone not badly affected.

Is your mail order wife going to be deported back to Romania?

Come on, spill the beans...

To be fair if he had a mail order Romanian wife she would know he would want her for her EU passport.

Guess that's why Farage's wife left him.

eek
21st July 2017, 08:32
+1

This gb-exit nonsense ain't gonna happen - enough is enough... :confused:

Revoke A-50 asap - gb-exiters, you were duped by Farage et al...accept and move on like adults... :smokin

Your +1 and following statements are totally contradictory.

But Sasguru is right what is done is done, A50 has been triggered and we are leaving the EU. Destination and the pain involved unknown but there will be change and change is money in the IT world...

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 08:35
I agree with sasguru time to move on.

Brexit will be implemented and:

Cabinet agrees, freedom of movement to continue after Brexit (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-cabinet-ministers-free-movement-uk-leave-eu-citizens-theresa-may-philip-hammond-a7852191.html)

and we simply need to all accept it and pull behind it, and stop "bremoaning".

:D

sasguru
21st July 2017, 08:35
To be fair if he had a mail order Romanian wife she would know he would want her for her EU passport.



Indeed. But logic never was AussieSchlong's strong point.

oscarose
21st July 2017, 08:35
we are leaving the EU.

LOL!

It won't happen... :smokin

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 08:38
Indeed. But logic never was AussieSchlong's strong point.

Predictably, you have taken the savant position and misinterpreted her piss take as a reenforcement.

You always fail to pick up on emotional subtlety don't you.

That is why you have been rejected by your peer group and have to bounce around the forums to maintain your narcissistic ego supply.

vetran
21st July 2017, 08:59
Guess that's why Farage's wife left him.

nope that was because he was siring a girl half his age - allegedly.

OwlHoot
21st July 2017, 09:01
LOL!

It won't happen... :smokin

Dream on! :laugh

OwlHoot
21st July 2017, 09:03
nope that was because he was siring a girl half his age - allegedly.

Nitpick alert! :nerd

If he sired a girl, wouldn't she have to be aged zero to start with?

(Mind you, at some time she would be half his age.)

Mordac
21st July 2017, 09:03
I agree with sasguru time to move on.

Brexit will be implemented and:

Cabinet agrees, freedom of movement to continue after Brexit (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-cabinet-ministers-free-movement-uk-leave-eu-citizens-theresa-may-philip-hammond-a7852191.html)

and we simply need to all accept it and pull behind it, and stop "bremoaning".

:D

If policed properly, freedom of movement of Labour isn't such a bad thing. Free movement of people, regardless of circumstances, is what most Leave voters decided to end. So lets all have a group :hug: and forget all about Brexit. Poor old AtW will have to take his DOOM elsewhere, or better still, take a long holiday...:smokin

Mordac
21st July 2017, 09:05
Nitpick alert! :nerd

If he sired a girl, wouldn't she have to be aged zero to start with?

(Mind you, at some time she would be half his age.)

I'm guessing it's been a while and the poor chap has forgotten the difference...:wink

sasguru
21st July 2017, 09:16
If policed properly, freedom of movement of Labour isn't such a bad thing. Free movement of people, regardless of circumstances, is what most Leave voters decided to end. So lets all have a group :hug: and forget all about Brexit. Poor old AtW will have to take his DOOM elsewhere, or better still, take a long holiday...:smokin

What a pity we're wasting billions on Brexit when freedom of Labour is all the EU really requires.
Why the UK went further and implemented freedom of People when it wasn't really required by the EU, then blamed the EU for its own stupidity, is one we can leave to the historians.

But hey that's the way it is.

woohoo
21st July 2017, 09:22
What a pity we're wasting billions on Brexit when freedom of Labour is all the EU really requires.
Why the UK went further and implemented freedom of People when it wasn't really required by the EU, then blamed the EU for its own stupidity, is one we can leave to the historians.

Not sure what difference it actually makes. A EU citizen could move here for a cleaning job, receive benefits to bring his wage up. Move his family over, who could then claim benefits.

He could lose his cleaning job and claim job seekers allowance.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 09:28
Not sure what difference it actually makes. A EU citizen could move here for a cleaning job, receive benefits to bring his wage up. Move his family over, who could then claim benefits.

He could lose his cleaning job and claim job seekers allowance.

Misinformed I'm afraid. EU rules specify you can deport a non-national who relies on state benefits.
Because the NHS is free and is a state benefit, we could even have required anyone moving here to have private health insurance (as Switzerland does).

But lets not discuss this any more. Time to move on. what is done is done. A sledgehammer has been used to crack a nut.

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 09:33
Not sure what difference it actually makes. A EU citizen could move here for a cleaning job, receive benefits to bring his wage up. Move his family over, who could then claim benefits.

He could lose his cleaning job and claim job seekers allowance.

That is why the government didn't bother enforce it. At the end of the day there is plenty of abuse from non-EU citizens. What is interesting is the total focus on EU immigration and yet two thirds of all immigrants in the UK are from outside the EU.

What is also often is overlooked is that EU immigrants are much more temporary, obviously some bring their families over, but the lower paid often leave their families back in their home countries, something the Daily Mail picked up on to whip up outrage at Eastern Europeans claiming tax credits for their families in Romania. Isn't this the best way of employing foreigners ? have them come over just to do their job and return when it's finished ? no...not for Paul Dacre, they're either scrounging b***ards clogging up the schools, roads and hospitals or scrounging b*ards claiming tax credits.

:D

woohoo
21st July 2017, 09:33
Misinformed I'm afraid. EU rules specify you can deport a non-national who relies on state benefits.
Because the NHS is free and is a state benefit, we could even have required anyone moving here to have private health insurance (as Switzerland does).

But lets not discuss this any more. Time to move on. what is done is done.

In my example, if they lose their benefits they get 3 months to get another job. Then benefits apply.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 09:37
That is why the government didn't bother enforce it. At the end of the day there is plenty of abuse from non-EU citizens. What is interesting is the total focus on EU immigration and yet two thirds of all immigrants in the UK are from outside the EU.

What is also often is overlooked is that EU immigrants are much more temporary, obviously some bring their families over, but the lower paid often leave their families back in their home countries, something the Daily Mail picked up on to whip up outrage at Eastern Europeans claiming tax credits for their families in Romania. Isn't this the best way of employing foreigners ? have them come over just to do their job and return when it's finished ? no...not for Paul Dacre, they're either scrounging b***ards clogging up the schools, roads and hospitals or scrounging b*ards claiming tax credits.

:D

The reason I started this thread is because I realise Brexit is an emotional decision for most Brexiters and you can deploy all sorts of reasoned arguments but it won't make a blind bit of difference.
So let's all move on. I'm feeing sanguine since the missus has just received her European dual nationality and I have a firm job offer from the US.
I hope the Brexiters get what they want - a real and hard Brexit.
Either it will work or it won't. :D

OwlHoot
21st July 2017, 09:37
What a pity we're wasting billions on Brexit when freedom of Labour is all the EU really requires.
Why the UK went further and implemented freedom of People when it wasn't really required by the EU, then blamed the EU for its own stupidity, is one we can leave to the historians.

But hey that's the way it is.

That's disingenuous. The problem is the EU allows in literally millions of non-EU immigrants. Then after a certain time all these are automatically given EU citizenship.

Then in turn they are entitled to work in the UK, after which as others have pointed out they are entitled to morph from immigrants to gimmegrants.

You can nitpick by saying that the UK was out of the Schengen agreement. But who's to say we would have remained so? On past form, some new agreement would soon have been pressed on the UK to join Schengen, or some daft PM like Corbyn would have offered to join it.

One can't argue based just on how things are. One must also take into account how they will very likely change, and luckily a majority of UK voters had the common sense to see that.

woohoo
21st July 2017, 09:40
The reason I started this thread is because I realise Brexit is an emotional decision for most Brexiters and you can deploy all sorts of reasoned arguments but it won't make a blind bit of difference.
So let's all move on. I'm feeing sanguine since the missus has just received her European dual nationality and I have a firm job offer from the US.
I hope the Brexiters get what they want - a real and hard Brexit.
Either it will work or it won't. :D

Not much of a troll sas but at least you are trying. I actually thought we may have a sensible discussion.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 09:40
In my example, if they lose their benefits they get 3 months to get another job. Then benefits apply.

I don't think that's the case. But anyway I think benefits should only be allowed if you've chucked enough in the pot, foreigner or Brit.
That would put paid to the whole issue.

oscarose
21st July 2017, 09:41
... a majority of UK voters were duped by Farage and co ...

More like..:wink

sasguru
21st July 2017, 09:42
That's disingenuous. The problem is the EU allows in literally millions of non-EU immigrants. Then after a certain time all these are automatically given EU citizenship.

.

Wrong. But enough of this discussion. If you're right why do you want to drone on and on? No one else is talking about Brexit in EUrope.

Mordac
21st July 2017, 09:43
What a pity we're wasting billions on Brexit when freedom of Labour is all the EU really requires.
Why the UK went further and implemented freedom of People when it wasn't really required by the EU, then blamed the EU for its own stupidity, is one we can leave to the historians.

But hey that's the way it is.

The square root of none of this was ever mentioned by anyone (on either side) in the campaign. Any ideas why? (Serious question).

sasguru
21st July 2017, 09:43
Not much of a troll sas but at least you are trying. I actually thought we may have a sensible discussion.

What's there to discuss? A vote has been taken and negotiations have begun. Rightly or wrongly things are going to happen.
Remainers think it's the end of the Uk as a player, Brexiters think it's the start of a new golden age.
One of us is right.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 09:44
The square root of none of this was ever mentioned by anyone (on either side) in the campaign. Any ideas why? (Serious question).

No idea. Doesn't matter now anyway.

Mordac
21st July 2017, 09:46
The reason I started this thread is because I realise Brexit is an emotional decision for most Brexiters and you can deploy all sorts of reasoned arguments but it won't make a blind bit of difference.
So let's all move on. I'm feeing sanguine since the missus has just received her European dual nationality and I have a firm job offer from the US.
I hope the Brexiters get what they want - a real and hard Brexit.
Either it will work or it won't. :D

I'm glad it's worked out for you, and I'm pretty sure it will work out for us as well, once the EU member states realise their Commissars are out to screw everyone over to ensure their vanity project survives. :wink

NotAllThere
21st July 2017, 09:47
The gentleman doth protest too much.

I suspect you are royally f****d by brexit. You are keeping quiet why, but the number of your brexit posts is too high...I can think of two feasible possibilities that explain that.

1. Look up the word "disinterested" in a dictionary.
2. He likes to troll the thick Brexiters*.


*As opposed to the smart ones.

WTFH
21st July 2017, 09:49
That's disingenuous. The problem is the EU allows in literally millions of non-EU immigrants. Then after a certain time all these are automatically given EU citizenship.

Then in turn they are entitled to work in the UK, after which as others have pointed out they are entitled to morph from immigrants to gimmegrants.


It's only a few days ago that you trotted out the same thing, and when challenged to prove it, you couldn't.
REPEATING A LIE DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.


How many of the refugees/immigrants got full EU citizenship last year?


No idea, but I understand they only have to remain in the EU for a certain time (five years?), keeping their nose clean, after which they automatically qualify for EU citizenship.

Also, this report was released today:


2017-07-17 The outlook for EU migration if the UK remains subject to the free movement of people (https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/416)

Haven't read it in detail yet, but presumably it is pertinent to this discussion.


Link / source? There's no such thing as "EU citizenship". Each EU country has it's own rules, there's no "one size fits all". Germany, for example, requires



Other countries may be less, may be more.


Hardly likely to get citizenship. Only a minority of asylum seekers will be able to apply for citizenship. Most are either deported or tolerated i.e. there are difficulties sending them back so they can stay but they have less rights and they certainly can't become citizens. If the Syrian war is resolved within the next 8 years then refugees will be expected to return.


So, you have "no idea", yet you and several others trot it out as an argument that these refugees arrive at Italy and are given full EU citizenship so that they are in the UK in a couple of hours.

Maybe, before you decide to argue that every single refugee is granted full EU citizenship, you might want to research the opinions you are being spoon fed before relying on them as fact.


There is no such thing as EU citizenship. In uk they would need ILR first via DL or HP that’s a 6-10 year route and after that it’s required the previous 10 years be blemish free, and as most enter uk illegally initially and claim asylum, it’s 10 years from then.

Only on becoming a BC can you gain EU FoM rights, and we won’t be in it then

sasguru
21st July 2017, 09:52
It's only a few days ago that you trotted out the same thing, and when challenged to prove it, you couldn't.
REPEATING A LIE DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

Reasoned argument doesn't work. It's an emotional thing.
But I will say in passing that the shrill yelling of the Brexiter press, the constant lies and the intolerance of dissent don't seem to be the hallmarks of a group who are confident in what they profess to believe.

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 09:59
The reason I started this thread is because I realise Brexit is an emotional decision for most Brexiters and you can deploy all sorts of reasoned arguments but it won't make a blind bit of difference.
So let's all move on. I'm feeing sanguine since the missus has just received her European dual nationality and I have a firm job offer from the US.
I hope the Brexiters get what they want - a real and hard Brexit.
Either it will work or it won't. :D

There is no way you are successful in business, you are too backward looking. You may be a niche public service contractor but certainly not top end.

Forget the UK. Move on. What will be will be. You can move back later if you like. You are already behind the curve in fact.

Why are you posting this drivel when you could be enjoying yourself with your mail order bride? She just took dual nationality? I knew it! So she now has EU *and* Philippino. And with your UK passport you should have quite some mobility.

OwlHoot
21st July 2017, 10:02
It's only a few days ago that you trotted out the same thing, and when challenged to prove it, you couldn't. ...

Sigh, the facts are all out there, if only you could be bothered to do your own homework ..

Here's what I found in within one minute of searching ...

Naturalization as a Swedish citizen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_nationality_law)



... the residence period is reduced to 4 years for recognised refugees and stateless persons



German nationality law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law)



Naturalisation is also possible for foreign nationals after six to eight years of legal residence in Germany

:::

A significant reform to the nationality law was passed by the Bundestag (the German parliament) in 1999, and came into force on 1 January 2000. The reformed law makes it somewhat easier for foreigners resident in Germany on a long-term basis, and especially their children born in Germany, to acquire German citizenship

sasguru
21st July 2017, 10:02
There is no way you are successful in business, you are too backward looking. You may be a niche public service contractor but certainly not top end.

Forget the UK. Move on. What will be will be. You can move back later if you like. You are already behind the curve in fact.

Why are you posting this drivel when you could be enjoying yourself with your mail order bride? She just took dual nationality? I knew it! So she now has EU *and* Philippino. And with your UK passport you should have quite some mobility.

:laugh:laugh You ooze mediocrity from every post. But try not to project, there's a good chap.
Back to checking the lead programmer's IF statements (and try not to stick your tongue out when you're doing it) or you'll have to choke extra pole this evening. :laugh:laugh

OwlHoot
21st July 2017, 10:03
Why are you posting this drivel when you could be enjoying yourself with your mail order bride? She just took dual nationality? I knew it! So she now has EU *and* Philippino. And with your UK passport you should have quite some mobility.

I hope to God Sas wasn't rash enough to take out life insurance after he married her! :laugh

sasguru
21st July 2017, 10:05
Sigh, the facts are all out there, if only you could be bothered to do your own homework ..

Here's what I found in within one minute of searching ...

Naturalization as a Swedish citizen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_nationality_law)




German nationality law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law)

How many refugees did Sweden and Germany give citizenship to in the last year? Got any figures?
Not that it matters, just curious.

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 10:06
:laugh:laugh You ooze mediocrity from every post. But try not to project, there's a good chap.
Back to checking the lead programmer's IF statements (and try not to stick your tongue out when you're doing it) or you'll have to choke extra pole this evening. :laugh:laugh

I laughed out loud at that. Thanks for that.

I can just imagine you in a smoking jacket with a comb over and a menthol cigarette in your hand, saying "ooooze".

You make my skin crawl actually.

OwlHoot
21st July 2017, 10:12
How many refugees did Sweden and Germany give citizenship to in the last year? Got any figures?

Not that it matters, just curious.

Another homework dodger? You and WTFH are the absolute limit!

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 10:17
Sigh, the facts are all out there, if only you could be bothered to do your own homework ..

Here's what I found in within one minute of searching ...

Naturalization as a Swedish citizen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_nationality_law)




German nationality law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law)

In order to get German nationality they have to be recognized refugees, most of the refugees have their applications refused. Not all of them are deported and the ones that aren't have no rights, i.e. they're encouraged to go back but not forced but they can't become citizens. If the Syrian war is resolved the refugees will lose their status as a refugee and will lose the right to become a citizen. A lot can happen in 8 years. Anyone who becomes a German citizen has to renounce his previous citizenship and therefore needs an official document from the authorities of the country he came from. This bureaucratic step alone will scupper most attempts to become a citizen for refugees from a war torn country or anyone who threw away their passport.

I'm sure that most posters know EU citizens working in the UK, so does anyone know of an EU citizen who blagged his way into a refugee camp, claimed Italian citizenship to come to Britain ?

I would presume their photos would be all over the Daily Mail, so they can post some links.

WTFH
21st July 2017, 10:20
Sigh, the facts are all out there, if only you could be bothered to do your own homework ..


My "homework" shouldn't be to check every one of your posts to see how often you make claims that you refuse to (or can't) back up, because the DF won't tell you where they get their stories from.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 10:23
Another homework dodger? You and WTFH are the absolute limit!

It's your claim, you back it up.

WTFH
21st July 2017, 10:24
Another homework dodger? You and WTFH are the absolute limit!

We're the ones asking questions, not making ludicrous claims.

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 10:33
anyways the debate on immigration was always a bogus one as the UK government has no intention of changing freedom of movement, it was just a cynical ploy by the elite Eurosceptics to whip up some anti EU anger with the great unwashed so they would sign away their employment rights for "sweatshop" Britain run by the new "Victorian" elite.

The gullible masses sold down the river (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-20/u-k-to-accept-eu-free-movement-for-years-after-brexit-guardian)

:D

oscarose
21st July 2017, 10:35
the UK government has no intention of changing freedom of movement


Exactly...:smokin

On the money...:smokin

sasguru
21st July 2017, 10:37
The gullible masses sold down the river (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-20/u-k-to-accept-eu-free-movement-for-years-after-brexit-guardian)



Qu'elle surprise. And in other news economic reality intrudes on fantasy. Wonder what other concessions will be made.

OwlHoot
21st July 2017, 10:43
This UK government has no intention of changing freedom of movement, ...

FTFY (The rest of your post is just a lot of hot air.)

The point as always being that at least a future UK government will be able to implement policies to suit the UK

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 10:45
FTFY (The rest of your post is just a lot of hot air.)

The point as always being that at least a future UK government will be able to implement policies to suit the UK

Once the UK is tied into an agreement with the EU it will be as much in stone as membership of the EU. Membership of the EU is nothing more than a trade deal, and if you don't believe me ask Switzerland and Norway.

:D

sasguru
21st July 2017, 10:56
FTFY (The rest of your post is just a lot of hot air.)

The point as always being that at least a future UK government will be able to implement policies to suit the UK

Eventually the UK will join the Euro and become a fully fledged member of Europe.
But not until a great deal of pain and reality checking is gone through.
Being in the EU enabled the UK to piggy back on it and play the big boy.
But on its own the weaknesses of the UK economy: the large deficits, the reliance on debt-fuelled conusmption, the tiny manufacturing sector, the over-reliance of foreign investment and a massive housing ponzi scheme will be painfully exposed.

eek
21st July 2017, 10:59
Eventually the UK will join the Euro and become a fully fledged member of Europe.
But not until a great deal of pain and reality checking is gone through.
Being in the EU enabled the UK to piggy back on it and play the big boy.
But on its own the weaknesses of the UK economy: the large deficits, the reliance on debt-fuelled conusmption, the tiny manufacturing sector, the over-reliance of foreign investment and a massive housing ponzi scheme will be painfully exposed.

A agree with the last bit - your first 3 points are however wrong - our economy is rather different to the rest of the EUs and will be impossible to change...

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 11:00
Eventually the UK will join the Euro and become a fully fledged member of Europe.
But not until a great deal of pain and reality checking is gone through.
Being in the EU enabled the UK to piggy back on it and play the big boy.
But on its own the weaknesses of the UK economy: the large deficits, the reliance on debt-fuelled conusmption, the tiny manufacturing sector, the over-reliance of foreign investment and a massive housing ponzi scheme will be painfully exposed.

Great article by the Economist

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21725314-long-government-stays-denial-about-brexits-drawbacks-country-course

To summarise, the UK is on route to economic disaster and an IMF bail out unless it does a U-turn.

:D

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 11:05
Eventually the UK will join the Euro and become a fully fledged member of Europe.
But not until a great deal of pain and reality checking is gone through.
Being in the EU enabled the UK to piggy back on it and play the big boy.
But on its own the weaknesses of the UK economy: the large deficits, the reliance on debt-fuelled conusmption, the tiny manufacturing sector, the over-reliance of foreign investment and a massive housing ponzi scheme will be painfully exposed.

You are projecting your personal failure story onto brexit- because you are not a leader of men and cannot visualise yourself confidently leading people into the unknown.

Never mind brexit. You should stick to babysit.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 11:13
You are projecting your personal failure story onto brexit- because you are not a leader of men and cannot visualise yourself confidently leading people into the unknown.

Never mind brexit. You should stick to babysit.

Hush now, the big boys are talking.
Run off and find ShaunBhoy and Original PM, they're in a sandpit somewhere.:D

Uncle Albert
21st July 2017, 11:16
You are projecting your personal failure story onto brexit- because you are not a leader of men and cannot visualise yourself confidently leading people into the unknown.

Never mind brexit. You should stick to babysit.

And you sound like the kind of great leader who did us proud at Balaclava. Lord Tennyson's poem could easily be modfied to cover Brexit. https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45319/the-charge-of-the-light-brigade.

OwlHoot
21st July 2017, 11:27
Great article by the Economist

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21725314-long-government-stays-denial-about-brexits-drawbacks-country-course

To summarise, the UK is on route to economic disaster and an IMF bail out unless it does a U-turn.

:D

The Economist? Bloomberg? The Independent?

All fanatically Europhiliac rags whose doom laden warnings have been assailing our ears since before the referendum

:tired

sasguru
21st July 2017, 11:29
And you sound like the kind of great leader who did us proud at Balaclava. Lord Tennyson's poem could easily be modfied to cover Brexit. https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45319/the-charge-of-the-light-brigade.

This is Aussieschlong. More likely to be at Gallipoli where Johnny Turk gave him a whipping and sent him back to Oz with his tail between his legs.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 11:30
The Economist? Bloomberg? The Independent?

All fanatically Europhiliac rags whose doom laden warnings have been assailing our ears since before the referendum

:tired

So you're happy with the performance of the British economy in the last year?

sasguru
21st July 2017, 11:34
Anyway let's see what happens.
You Brexiters had better be right about the economy because if you're not the vast majority of you will be stuck here :D

Paddy
21st July 2017, 11:38
Great article by the Economist

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21725314-long-government-stays-denial-about-brexits-drawbacks-country-course

To summarise, the UK is on route to economic disaster and an IMF bail out unless it does a U-turn.

:D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_IMF_Crisis

All that is need is to updated this to 2018, add May, add Brexit and the EU Repeal Bill

[QUOTE]The IMF Crisis took place during James Callaghan's term as Prime Minister,[3] and caused the Bank of England to withdraw temporarily from the foreign exchange market.[4] After the defeat of the public expenditure white paper in the House of Commons in March 1976 and the resignation of Harold Wilson, many investors became convinced the pound would soon lose value due to inflation. By June 1976, the pound had reached a record low against the dollar.[2]


BTW, 1976 GBP to USD was 1.55 at its lowest

Paddy
21st July 2017, 11:51
"Time to stop talking about Brexit and move on"

But it never stops...

For those farmers who voted for Brexit


Farm subsidies will have to be earned rather than just handed out in future, the Environment Secretary Michael Gove has said in a speech.

Home - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news)

original PM
21st July 2017, 11:54
"Time to stop talking about Brexit and move on"

But it never stops...

For those farmers who voted for Brexit



Home - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news)

Oh no people have to earn money rather than being given it for free....

What is the world coming to?

(ps can I have the address of your magic money tree?)

OwlHoot
21st July 2017, 12:01
And you sound like the kind of great leader who did us proud at Balaclava. Lord Tennyson's poem could easily be modfied to cover Brexit. https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45319/the-charge-of-the-light-brigade.

Best poem Tennyson ever wrote, I reckon.

Well that and Break, Break, Break (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break,_Break,_Break) which as might be guessed he wrote after the death of a close friend:



Break, break, break,
On thy cold grey stones, O Sea!
And I would that my tongue could utter
The thoughts that arise in me.

O well for the fisherman's boy,
That he shouts with his sister at play!
O well for the sailor lad,
That he sings in his boat on the bay!

And the stately ships go on
To their haven under the hill;
But O for the touch of a vanish'd hand,
And the sound of a voice that is still!

Break, break, break,
At the foot of thy crags, O Sea!
But the tender grace of a day that is dead,
Will never come back to me.

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 12:16
Hush now, the big boys are talking.
Run off and find ShaunBhoy and Original PM, they're in a sandpit somewhere.:D

Indeed. And what are you doing while the big boys are talking?

I know, you're standing in the dunce corner with a snotty nose shouting "Miss! Miss! ...if I pull my willy weally weally hard will it get weally long like the big boys". And you haven't moved on from that phase really, have you.

woohoo
21st July 2017, 13:32
Eventually the UK will join the Euro and become a fully fledged member of Europe.
But not until a great deal of pain and reality checking is gone through.
Being in the EU enabled the UK to piggy back on it and play the big boy.
But on its own the weaknesses of the UK economy: the large deficits, the reliance on debt-fuelled conusmption, the tiny manufacturing sector, the over-reliance of foreign investment and a massive housing ponzi scheme will be painfully exposed.

I can't see us joining the Euro it's been a disaster for most countries other than Germany.

Being in the UK didn't enable UK to be anything. If Germany and France opposed Britain tough, our only power was to veto proposals and offer some kind of bridge to the USA. We made some of the rules as long as buddies Germany and France agreed and to a large extent France is very much the junior partner to Germany.

UK has a large advanced service sector, it's not a failure of the UK. Our country went down the path of deciding that most low end manufacturing would go to cheaper countries. So we have high end manufacturing, other advanced industries and finance.

Most countries in the EU are running a deficit. Guess what even countries without a deficit like Germany have lent hundreds of billions to these indebted countries. You think if there is a collapse of Spain, Italy, Portugal that Germany will be untouched, when their banks are bankrupt.

Stop being a dick and see the world for how it is.

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 13:39
Ireland, Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal had debt problems not a currency problem.

Iceland and Romania were also begging at the IMF and they didn't have the Euro. Iceland and Ireland both had identical problems, both have recovered. Greece's problem was similar to Argentina, Argentina doesn't have the Euro. Argentina is still a basket case.

If there was spiraling inflation or rocketing interest rates that would be a currency problem. The Euro has delivered precisely what it says on the packet, stability and low interest rates.

...and those that argue without the Euro Greece could have simply raised even more debt to dig themselves out using QE are in cuckoo land.


:laugh

sasguru
21st July 2017, 14:23
Stop being a dick and see the world for how it is.

Maybe that's what your kids will tell you when they can't find jobs and can't automatically travel to a European country in search of them.:laugh
Good luck.
But like I said, time to stop talking about it. The die is cast and I for one am glad I have an exit route if necessary.

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 14:32
Maybe that's what your kids will tell you when they can't find jobs and can't automatically travel to a European country in search of them.:laugh
Good luck.
But like I said, time to stop talking about it. The die is cast and I for one am glad I have an exit route if necessary.

Is it just me that finds your posing so vulgar.

SAS day 1: "we are royally f@@@@d cos of this brexit. And our kids. I mean, I'll be fine but you know, you lot".

SAS day 2: "we are FOOKED I said, FOOKED. I mean, I'm not, I'll be fine, but you lot are on a sinking ship".

SAS day n: "the whole country is FOOKED due to brexit. I mean, everyone except me and my friends. We're ok like."

Brexit is a vehicle for you to attempt to publicly pat yourself on the back and tell yourself "haven't I done well to be unbrexitable".

BrilloPad
21st July 2017, 14:46
Is it just me that finds your posing so vulgar.

SAS day 1: "we are royally f@@@@d cos of this brexit. And our kids. I mean, I'll be fine but you know, you lot".

SAS day 2: "we are FOOKED I said, FOOKED. I mean, I'm not, I'll be fine, but you lot are on a sinking ship".

SAS day n: "the whole country is FOOKED due to brexit. I mean, everyone except me and my friends. We're ok like."

Brexit is a vehicle for you to attempt to publicly pat yourself on the back and tell yourself "haven't I done well to be unbrexitable".

Almost everyone finds his posting vulgar. Try a poll asking if sasguru should be banned - there would be a majority in favour. The 2 years he was away were the best time for CUK.

However he is right in this case as others have been arguing for a while. There needs to be a Brexit sub forum.

BrilloPad
21st July 2017, 14:47
"Time to stop talking about Brexit and move on"

But it never stops...

For those farmers who voted for Brexit



Home - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news)

They won't need subsidies. There will be no more food imports - so farmers will be rich.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 14:49
Is it just me that finds your posing so vulgar.

SAS day 1: "we are royally f@@@@d cos of this brexit. And our kids. I mean, I'll be fine but you know, you lot".

SAS day 2: "we are FOOKED I said, FOOKED. I mean, I'm not, I'll be fine, but you lot are on a sinking ship".

SAS day n: "the whole country is FOOKED due to brexit. I mean, everyone except me and my friends. We're ok like."

Brexit is a vehicle for you to attempt to publicly pat yourself on the back and tell yourself "haven't I done well to be unbrexitable".

Have you tried mindfulness and yoga? Zen meditation?
It'll help you come to terms with the fact that you have 20 years of dull as ditchwater code maintenance left before you can retire to Arseendofnowhere, Oz.
If you don't kill yourself with the booze first.
Personally I think you've done well given your obvious congenital limitations

NotAllThere
21st July 2017, 14:55
That's disingenuous. The problem is the EU allows in literally millions of non-EU immigrants. Then after a certain time all these are automatically given EU citizenship.

You cite Sweden as an example. The criteria for citizenship are here (https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Becoming-a-Swedish-citizen/Citizenship-for-adults.html). Read them carefully and you'll find there is no automatic right. You have to prove your identity with satisfactory papers or have a Swiss citizen credibly attest to your identity. You have to have had good conduct during your residency. All of this means that it isn't automatic.

The criteria for Germany are even more stringent.

There is no automatic right to EU citizenship after five years for non-EU, anywhere within Europe.

If anyone is being disingenuous it's you. Repeating the same lies again and again.

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 15:12
Have you tried mindfulness and yoga? Zen meditation?
It'll help you come to terms with the fact that you have 20 years of dull as ditchwater code maintenance left before you can retire to Arseendofnowhere, Oz.
If you don't kill yourself with the booze first.
Personally I think you've done well given your obvious congenital limitations

That's pretty nasty stuff you've written right there.

I sincerely hope that Mrs.Assguru enjoys Gonsalvo while you are out drinking the cheap sherry he has made from your shrivelled grapes.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 15:17
That's pretty nasty stuff you've written right there.

I sincerely hope that Mrs.Assguru enjoys Gonsalvo while you are out drinking the cheap sherry he has made from your shrivelled grapes.

Oh diddums. Tries to play with the big boys but they hurt his ickle feelings. There, there!

woohoo
21st July 2017, 15:18
Ireland, Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal had debt problems not a currency problem.

Iceland and Romania were also begging at the IMF and they didn't have the Euro. Iceland and Ireland both had identical problems, both have recovered. Greece's problem was similar to Argentina, Argentina doesn't have the Euro. Argentina is still a basket case.

If there was spiraling inflation or rocketing interest rates that would be a currency problem. The Euro has delivered precisely what it says on the packet, stability and low interest rates.

...and those that argue without the Euro Greece could have simply raised even more debt to dig themselves out using QE are in cuckoo land.


:laugh

Italy, Spain and Portugal have a debt problem, outside of the EU they could devalue their currency and be more competitive and some debts would actually cost less to pay back. You can't do that when you are in the Euro.

Greece has fundamental problems and because they are in the Euro their debt payments spiraled. They should not have been loaned that money in the first place. The bailouts have gone straight to German and French banks and Greece will never pay that debt back, instead will be stuck in austerity until its on its knees and then the debt will be restructured.

Those that say well Greece should pay it back they borrowed it. You can't have guaranteed debt, hence bankruptcy - that's why we have different interest rates depending on the risk. Greece should have left the euro and defaulted. If it defaulted that would have left Germany in one crap place.

BrilloPad
21st July 2017, 15:19
Italy, Spain and Portugal have a debt problem, outside of the EU they could devalue their currency and be more competitive and some debts would actually cost less to pay back. You can't do that when you are in the Euro.

Greece has fundamental problems and because they are in the Euro their debt payments spiraled. They should not have been loaned that money in the first place. The bailouts have gone straight to German and French banks and Greece will never pay that debt back, instead will be stuck in austerity until its on its knees the debt will be restructured.

Without debt, Greece would only spend 61% of GDP.

It needs a modern day Marshall plan to forgive the debt. How about the Merkel plan?

woohoo
21st July 2017, 15:21
Maybe that's what your kids will tell you when they can't find jobs and can't automatically travel to a European country in search of them.:laugh
Good luck.
But like I said, time to stop talking about it. The die is cast and I for one am glad I have an exit route if necessary.

Big deal, more doom from you.

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 15:34
Oh diddums. Tries to play with the big boys but they hurt his ickle feelings. There, there!

You're a big boy are you? My arse. You're a scared nerd who is trying to give it the big "I am" from the safety of his garden shed :laugh

It's like an ugly guy turning up to a nightclub, walking into a group of hot chicks and going "HELLO LADIES" and then trying to blame his lack of sex on the situation. But with no real clue as to what happened. No consciousness. That's how you roll on this forum.

sasguru
21st July 2017, 15:39
You're a big boy are you? My arse. You're a scared nerd who is trying to give it the big "I am" from the safety of his garden shed :laugh

It's like an ugly guy turning up to a nightclub, walking into a group of hot chicks and going "HELLO LADIES" and then trying to blame his lack of sex on the situation. But with no real clue as to what happened. No consciousness. That's how you roll on this forum.

:laugh:laugh Just can't give it a rest can you?

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 15:44
Italy, Spain and Portugal have a debt problem, outside of the EU they could devalue their currency and be more competitive and some debts would actually cost less to pay back. You can't do that when you are in the Euro.

Greece has fundamental problems and because they are in the Euro their debt payments spiraled. They should not have been loaned that money in the first place. The bailouts have gone straight to German and French banks and Greece will never pay that debt back, instead will be stuck in austerity until its on its knees and then the debt will be restructured.

Those that say well Greece should pay it back they borrowed it. You can't have guaranteed debt, hence bankruptcy - that's why we have different interest rates depending on the risk. Greece should have left the euro and defaulted. If it defaulted that would have left Germany in one crap place.

Before the Euro Southern European countries issued debt in DMs. You can't raise debt on the international markets with a "Banana Republic" currency. Without the Euro they would have ended up like Argentina, who also had all its debt in Dollars or DMs, as their currency devalued defaulting and paying a massive interest rate to raise new debt in Euros. That's why they couldn't wait to get into the Euro and why they'll never leave it.

What Eurosceptics do is mix and match to make bogus arguments. They talk about devaluation helping their debts by making the completely bogus assumption that Greece would have had all its debts in Drachma. Nothing could be further from the truth. The other bogus argument is Greece would have exported its way out after the devaluation. What on earth would they export ? :D Greece is an import nation that, like Argentina, would simply have become impoverished by a devaluation. Yes of course there are the holiday resorts, but the food and even staff are "imported" so that wouldn't help. I did see a documentary on Greece and the managers were saying devaluation wouldn't help because they wouldn't have been able to import any goods or materials for their products and would have simply gone bankrupt as their home market collapsed.

Fronttoback
21st July 2017, 15:46
:laugh:laugh Just can't give it a rest can you?

Haven't you got a flight to catch? No, because you're at the Luton bus station waiting for a lift to Skegness for your annual holibobs. Enjoy :laugh

Anyway, I'm off to my pool. Ciao xx

sasguru
21st July 2017, 15:55
What Eurosceptics do is mix and match to make bogus arguments. .

Well whatever, all this stuff has to stop now.
We're brexiting so any bogus arguments can be used on their kids.:wink

sasguru
21st July 2017, 15:56
Haven't you got a flight to catch? No, because you're at the Luton bus station waiting for a lift to Skegness for your annual holibobs. Enjoy :laugh

Anyway, I'm off to my pool. Ciao xx

Flying off tomorrow. Enjoy "your" pool. Try to avoid the other tenants while you paddle around.

Bee
21st July 2017, 16:13
Italy, Spain and Portugal have a debt problem, outside of the EU they could devalue their currency and be more competitive and some debts would actually cost less to pay back. You can't do that when you are in the Euro.

Greece has fundamental problems and because they are in the Euro their debt payments spiraled. They should not have been loaned that money in the first place. The bailouts have gone straight to German and French banks and Greece will never pay that debt back, instead will be stuck in austerity until its on its knees and then the debt will be restructured.

Those that say well Greece should pay it back they borrowed it. You can't have guaranteed debt, hence bankruptcy - that's why we have different interest rates depending on the risk. Greece should have left the euro and defaulted. If it defaulted that would have left Germany in one crap place.

Portugal has a debt problem and we will have an additional problem having more British refugees with caravans taking our parking spots near the beach. :tantrum:

woohoo
21st July 2017, 17:00
Before the Euro Southern European countries issued debt in DMs. You can't raise debt on the international markets with a "Banana Republic" currency. Without the Euro they would have ended up like Argentina, who also had all its debt in Dollars or DMs, as their currency devalued defaulting and paying a massive interest rate to raise new debt in Euros. That's why they couldn't wait to get into the Euro and why they'll never leave it.

What Eurosceptics do is mix and match to make bogus arguments. They talk about devaluation helping their debts by making the completely bogus assumption that Greece would have had all its debts in Drachma. Nothing could be further from the truth. The other bogus argument is Greece would have exported its way out after the devaluation. What on earth would they export ? :D Greece is an import nation that, like Argentina, would simply have become impoverished by a devaluation. Yes of course there are the holiday resorts, but the food and even staff are "imported" so that wouldn't help. I did see a documentary on Greece and the managers were saying devaluation wouldn't help because they wouldn't have been able to import any goods or materials for their products and would have simply gone bankrupt as their home market collapsed.

There are arguements for and against defaulting, you can find leading economists arguing both ways.

Staying in the euro leaves Greece in a terrible situation with no chance of paying off it's debt. People who can leave are leaving and i worry what state Greece will be in by the time the debt is restructured.

Would be better as someone else said to forgive the debt or restructure it and work to improve the economy. But the family that is the EU is not interested. Regardless of anything else the eu has handled the Greece debt problem in a frankly disgusting manner.

Bee
21st July 2017, 17:08
There are arguements for and against defaulting, you can find leading economists arguing both ways.

Staying in the euro leaves Greece in a terrible situation with no chance of paying off it's debt. People who can leave are leaving and i worry what state Greece will be in by the time the debt is restructured.

Would be better as someone else said to forgive the debt or restructure it and work to improve the economy. But the family that is the EU is not interested. Regardless of anything else the eu has handled the Greece debt problem in a frankly disgusting manner.

I understand your theory and it's probably correct but I think if a country doesn't make an effort to pay the debt that country would lose the confidence of the investors and will be the end.

woohoo
21st July 2017, 17:25
I understand your theory and it's probably correct but I think if a country doesn't make an effort to pay the debt that country would lose the confidence of the investors and will be the end.

I understand where you coming from and to a point I agree with you. But here is the thing Greece is never ever going to pay that money back. The bailouts have gone straight to the banks.

The narrative of lazy Greeks being bailed out by thrifty Germans is unhelpful and hides the real suffering going on. People committing suicide and the young leaving.

Also, if you actually look at it the German banks lent money incompetently on a huge scale, in the US and Europe. They received a bailout but for political reasons they could not get a second bailout. So Merkel the competent politician decided to sell it as bailout to Greece, money from the EU and IMF (taxpayers money) went to Greece then straight to the German banks. A big huge bailout! Now Greece is left with debt it will never ever pay back and the country is in a dire straight.

You can blame the Greek government for its incompetence all you like and there is plenty of things wrong with Greece but this is no way to help Greece. Also, look to the banks in France and Germany far from competent and reckless on a grand scale.

Sorry to go on about this but it makes my blood boil.

Bee
21st July 2017, 17:47
I understand where you coming from and to a point I agree with you. But here is the thing Greece is never ever going to pay that money back. The bailouts have gone straight to the banks.

The narrative of lazy Greeks being bailed out by thrifty Germans is unhelpful and hides the real suffering going on. People committing suicide and the young leaving.

Also, if you actually look at it the German banks lent money incompetently on a huge scale, in the US and Europe. They received a bailout but for political reasons they could not get a second bailout. So Merkel the competent politician decided to sell it as bailout to Greece, money from the EU and IMF (taxpayers money) went to Greece then straight to the German banks. A big huge bailout! Now Greece is left with debt it will never ever pay back and the country is in a dire straight.

You can blame the Greek government for its incompetence all you like and there is plenty of things wrong with Greece but this is no way to help Greece. Also, look to the banks in France and Germany far from competent and reckless on a grand scale.

Sorry to go on about this but it makes my blood boil.

I really understand what you mean.

Honestly, any country with a big debt will be impossible to pay the debt because after the loans we need to pay a lot of interests, it's a vicious cycle and a good business for European Central Bank.

I don't know if I'm wrong because I'm not an economy expert but it's my impression.

northernladuk
21st July 2017, 18:23
I really understand what you mean.

Honestly, any country with a big debt will be impossible to pay the debt because after the loans we need to pay a lot of interests, it's a vicious cycle and a good business for European Central Bank.

I don't know if I'm wrong because I'm not an economy expert but it's my impression.

Bit like Portugal you mean?

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 18:25
There are arguements for and against defaulting, you can find leading economists arguing both ways.

Staying in the euro leaves Greece in a terrible situation with no chance of paying off it's debt. People who can leave are leaving and i worry what state Greece will be in by the time the debt is restructured.

Would be better as someone else said to forgive the debt or restructure it and work to improve the economy. But the family that is the EU is not interested. Regardless of anything else the eu has handled the Greece debt problem in a frankly disgusting manner.

The Greeks pay a far lower interest rate on loans from the EU than they would on the market, and a substantial amount of debt has actually been written off.

https://www.esm.europa.eu/publications/how-european-debt-relief-benefits-greece

If the Greeks were to default then they would be able to raise no new capital for a long while and then only at very high interest rates.

When Argentina defaulted there was no foreign investment at all for several years. Contrast that with Greece which is now growing. Argentina's debt wasn't forgiven, they just simply stopped paying the interest and then had to go through a long negotiation process to come to agreement with all their creditors, because when you default nobody will give you anything.

Greece can't simply default, and quite evidently the EU's support has been successful as Greece is no longer in recession.

Greece currently not in recession (https://www.ft.com/content/f8102614-10f6-30ff-81f5-bf0b899804c8)



Greece’s economic growth received a welcome upgrade this morning, with initial estimates of a 0.1 per cent quarterly contraction revised up to 0.4 per cent growth – meaning the economy is not in recession.


Eurosceptics need to admit they got it wrong on Greece. The figures speak for themselves. :D

BrilloPad
21st July 2017, 18:34
If the Greeks were to default then they would be able to raise no new capital for a long while and then only at very high interest rates.

It is complete and utter nonsense to suggest that Greece can simply default.

Usual Bremoaner cretin.

Investors buy into Iceland and Latvia debt issues | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/markets-bonds-iceland-idUSN0918698920110609)

To keep it at a level in terms a simpleton can understand, 3 years after defaulting Iceland could borrow again.

The only reason Greece cannot default(or Germany forgive the loans which would be better) is that the German people have no idea how much has been lent or that they can never get their money back.

Of course, the German people are easily misled. Look at 1934.

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 18:45
Usual Bremoaner cretin.

Investors buy into Iceland and Latvia debt issues | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/markets-bonds-iceland-idUSN0918698920110609)

To keep it at a level in terms a simpleton can understand, 3 years after defaulting Iceland could borrow again.

The only reason Greece cannot default(or Germany forgive the loans which would be better) is that the German people have no idea how much has been lent or that they can never get their money back.

Of course, the German people are easily misled. Look at 1934.

It was the banks in Iceland that went bankrupt, not the state.

I think someone needs to take your spade away from you.

:laugh

sasguru
21st July 2017, 18:52
I understand where you coming from and to a point I agree with you. But here is the thing Greece is never ever going to pay that money back. The bailouts have gone straight to the banks.

The narrative of lazy Greeks being bailed out by thrifty Germans is unhelpful and hides the real suffering going on. People committing suicide and the young leaving.

Also, if you actually look at it the German banks lent money incompetently on a huge scale, in the US and Europe. They received a bailout but for political reasons they could not get a second bailout. So Merkel the competent politician decided to sell it as bailout to Greece, money from the EU and IMF (taxpayers money) went to Greece then straight to the German banks. A big huge bailout! Now Greece is left with debt it will never ever pay back and the country is in a dire straight.

You can blame the Greek government for its incompetence all you like and there is plenty of things wrong with Greece but this is no way to help Greece. Also, look to the banks in France and Germany far from competent and reckless on a grand scale.

Sorry to go on about this but it makes my blood boil.

And in other news a thick Brexiter gets angry about stuff he doesnt understand. Always angry about something, Brexiters. If you want to get angry get angry about Farage, Gove and Johnson who've sold you down the river.

Reading your rant again, what comes across is how very, very, very stupid you are.

BrilloPad
21st July 2017, 18:58
It was the banks in Iceland that went bankrupt, not the state.

I think someone needs to take your spade away from you.

:laugh

Presumably you still think that LTCM was bailed out by banks in 1998?

The only reason Iceland government survived was IMF and other governments lending money. Which was due to threats to get Russian money.

Of course the IMF would step in to help Greece. Oh wait. The head of the IMF is one of the chief EU dictators.

Iceland plays the Russian card very well - its the reason they won the cod wars. Greece needs to wise up.

Bankers very quickly forget crises.

BrilloPad
21st July 2017, 18:59
And in other news a thick Brexiter gets angry about stuff he doesnt understand. Always angry about something, Brexiters. If you want to get angry get angry about Farage, Gove and Johnson who've sold you down the river.

Reading your rant again, what comes across is how very, very, very stupid you are.

Too cretinous to even manage a flounce.....

sasguru
21st July 2017, 19:04
Too cretinous to even manage a flounce.....

Says the Brexiter who thinks the Germans are too easily misled :laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 19:09
Of course, the German people are easily misled. Look at 1934.

Today after Gove admitted the government was planning a long Brexit transition, Brexiteers have been phoning into LBC to say that they have been sold up the river

:laugh

BlasterBates
21st July 2017, 19:11
We need to stop arguing because as of today we're all "Bremainers"

:laugh

greenlake
21st July 2017, 19:17
Can't we all just get along....?

http://i.imgur.com/ki957iU.jpg

Bee
21st July 2017, 19:18
We need to stop arguing because as of today we're all "Bremainers"

:laugh

True. :laugh:laugh

The best post of the day. :yay:

woohoo
21st July 2017, 22:01
The Greeks pay a far lower interest rate on loans from the EU than they would on the market, and a substantial amount of debt has actually been written off.

https://www.esm.europa.eu/publications/how-european-debt-relief-benefits-greece

If the Greeks were to default then they would be able to raise no new capital for a long while and then only at very high interest rates.

When Argentina defaulted there was no foreign investment at all for several years. Contrast that with Greece which is now growing. Argentina's debt wasn't forgiven, they just simply stopped paying the interest and then had to go through a long negotiation process to come to agreement with all their creditors, because when you default nobody will give you anything.

Greece can't simply default, and quite evidently the EU's support has been successful as Greece is no longer in recession.

Greece currently not in recession (https://www.ft.com/content/f8102614-10f6-30ff-81f5-bf0b899804c8)



Eurosceptics need to admit they got it wrong on Greece. The figures speak for themselves. :D

There you go a classic case of reading the news and not understanding anything.

woohoo
21st July 2017, 22:04
And in other news a thick Brexiter gets angry about stuff he doesnt understand. Always angry about something, Brexiters. If you want to get angry get angry about Farage, Gove and Johnson who've sold you down the river.

Reading your rant again, what comes across is how very, very, very stupid you are.

Sasy, sasy what a strange little man you are. I would miss you though if you ever decided to go back to mumsnet.

Cirrus
22nd July 2017, 07:22
We don't stop talking about football after the very first game. We all know all sorts of things can happen from the start to the end of the season.

A few people thought the referendum was like the Charity Shield - one game and that's it; all or nothing.

It wasn't. It was just the start. The Exiteers won the first match, but only by a very fine margin. However the Brexitship will run over at least two years. It's far too early to pick who will be champions.

The supporters of each side will be shouting for a long time yet.

BrilloPad
22nd July 2017, 07:40
We don't stop talking about football after the very first game. We all know all sorts of things can happen from the start to the end of the season.

A few people thought the referendum was like the Charity Shield - one game and that's it; all or nothing.

It wasn't. It was just the start. The Exiteers won the first match, but only by a very fine margin. However the Brexitship will run over at least two years. It's far too early to pick who will be champions.

The supporters of each side will be shouting for a long time yet.

The divorce was always going to be messy. That was the only argument for remain.

Hopefully all Brexit threads will be moved into a sub forum. Brexit has come to dominate general in a very unhealthy way.

Cirrus
23rd July 2017, 14:20
Liam Fox has a deadline in mind for a Brexit transition period: The next General Election in 2022 | City A.M. (http://www.cityam.com/268935/liam-fox-has-deadline-mind-brexit-transition-period-next)