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BoredBloke
23rd November 2006, 09:12
EU blocks cheap alcohol online

The "booze cruise" tradition goes on
The European Court of Justice has ruled against allowing consumers to buy drinks and cigarettes online at lower duties from other countries.
Shoppers wishing to get the benefit of buying cheaper goods abroad have to accompany the goods back themselves.

It had been feared a ruling going the other way would have hit thousands of UK retailers and could have spelled the end for the "booze cruise".

The decision will come as a relief to the Treasury and ferry firms.

The UK government already loses duty of more than £1bn (1.5bn euros) per year because of booze cruises, and would have stood to lose a lot more.




Q&A: Buying from low-duty countries

Duty on a bottle of wine varies from nothing in 13 EU countries, to 2.1 euros per 75cl in Ireland.

The European Court had been asked to interpret EU law by the Dutch Supreme Court, after a Dutch wine club objected to being charged duty on a lorry-load of wine delivered from France.

The EU directive in question states: "As regards products acquired by private individuals for their own use and transported by them... excise duty shall be charged in the member state in which they are acquired."

A number of EU states, including the UK, had argued that "transported by them" should be strictly interpreted.

The UK could stand to lose more than most countries by a change in the law.

A carton of cigarettes bought at Latvian rates, for example, would be seven times cheaper than in the UK.

A country like France could benefit from the extra business, and the VAT.


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Bugger!

AtW
23rd November 2006, 09:22
Maybe now those anti-EU Convervatives and alike will warm up more towards tax harmonisation attempts.

Ardesco
23rd November 2006, 09:40
Overall it is a sensible ruling, if it had gone the other way think of all the extra taxes we would have to pay so that el Gordo could claw back the £16Billion (I think they said £16Billion on the radio) hole it would leave in the government's tax intake....

That being said as a non-smoker, and now somebody who doesn't get to drink too much I am of course biased, let the smokers and drinkers pay more so I don't have to :D

AtW
23rd November 2006, 09:42
think of all the extra taxes we would have to pay so that el Gordo could claw back the £16Billion (I think they said £16Billion on the radio) hole it would leave in the government's tax intake....

Maybe if Gordon was forced to introduce new taxes it would have sunk him, but now he continues his ways just fine.

This court decision is not based on Justice, but practical need of Govts.

Ardesco
23rd November 2006, 09:45
I agree, too many countries in the EU had too much to loose.

Maybe extra taxes would have sunk Gordo, but more than likely the Liebour spin machine would have been wheeled out to tell us all how evil the EU is and how unfair it is and how the "amazing" Liebour goverment are going to have some talks to get some sort of meaningless deal to protect our soverignity, yadda yadaa yadda.

At least this way Gordo doesn't have a conveniant excuse if he raises taxes (Which he probably will anyway).

Troll
23rd November 2006, 09:50
That being said as a non-smoker, and now somebody who doesn't get to drink too much I am of course biased, let the smokers and drinkers pay more so I don't have to :D
Feck... I bet you're fun to be at a party with :p

Ardesco
23rd November 2006, 09:51
Feck... I bet you're fun to be at a party with :p

I didn't say i don't like to drink, just that I don't get much chance any more. Ah the joys of marriage and a young child :)

I usually try and make up for it when I can go out for a drink though :D

swamp
23rd November 2006, 10:06
Won't make any difference to contractors.

Who here really goes to the supermarket or off licence and worries about the cost of booze?!

I suppose it could have make a difference for smokers though.

BoredBloke
23rd November 2006, 10:12
Persoanlly I think it stinks. The EU was supposed to be a common market. Yes it's common when it comes to meddling in things we don't want but not for the things we do. This was supposed to be a ruling based on Justice and not what is good for each government concerned. Is it fair that somebody in the Euro zone can simply pop over a border to take advantage of the lower taxes in other countries while others cannot simply because of the distances concerned. Form my perspective, a jaunt to France to stock up would be a hell of a treck. Somebody in the south east can simply jump on the ferry.

Having such high levels of duty only increases the margins for those smuggling goods.

AtW
23rd November 2006, 10:14
The bottom line is that people vote for the Govt that sets local duties - if it bothered people enough they would have voted them out.

BoredBloke
23rd November 2006, 11:06
"The bottom line is that people vote for the Govt that sets local duties - if it bothered people enough they would have voted them out."

Never ever underestimate the stupidness of the UK population.

Mailman
23rd November 2006, 11:32
What ever happened with that court case brought by some geezer against El Gordo over charging tax on items that he had already paid tax on in the EU?

Sounds similar to this case.

Mailman

xxx rated lady
23rd November 2006, 12:55
We have gas and electric coming from the continent, so why not a booze pipeline? A 6" diameter pipe could supply all my vodka needs.

Mordac
23rd November 2006, 13:22
We have gas and electric coming from the continent, so why not a booze pipeline? A 6" diameter pipe could supply all my vodka needs.

There's never a length of 6" diameter pipe around when you need it dear...

tim123
23rd November 2006, 13:26
Persoanlly I think it stinks. The EU was supposed to be a common market. Yes it's common when it comes to meddling in things we don't want but not for the things we do. This was supposed to be a ruling based on Justice and not what is good for each government concerned. Is it fair that somebody in the Euro zone can simply pop over a border to take advantage of the lower taxes in other countries while others cannot simply because of the distances concerned. Form my perspective, a jaunt to France to stock up would be a hell of a treck. Somebody in the south east can simply jump on the ferry.

Having such high levels of duty only increases the margins for those smuggling goods.

The thing here Tony is that Excise is a tax. And the EU doesn't have juristriction on taxes. EU law generally respects the individual government's rights to decide to decide how it is going to raise revenue.

The UK chooses to bias more of its revenue collection towards Excise and some countires chose to bias more of their revenue collection towards other things. You may only have to pay 2p on a bottle of wine in france, but as an employer the NI rates are astronomical.

tim

hyperD
23rd November 2006, 15:27
We have gas and electric coming from the continent, so why not a booze pipeline? A 6" diameter pipe could supply all my vodka needs.
Not sure that could be entirely possible - Xogg - transient fluid flow equations?

Lots of cavitation and low vapour pressures... mmmm, nasty...

threaded
23rd November 2006, 20:02
This judgement shows just how crap the EU judges are. It defies both common sense and logic.

My initial reaction though is that they want an appeal, that way they can get their fee again.

VectraMan
23rd November 2006, 20:34
I thought it would go this way as it sounded too good to be true. The judges had to do what's right for the member governments even though they should really be impartial and base a decision on the law.

The real issue here is attempting to have free trade without bringing taxation into line.

xoggoth
23rd November 2006, 21:19
Long time since I did transient fluid flow equations. I am mostly too drunk on vodka anyway. An alternative would be to hide crates of bottles in the pig.

PS For everyone except HyperD a pig is a barrelly thing that is pushed through pipelines to clean out the sludge.

BoredBloke
23rd November 2006, 21:27
Would that be an intelligent pig or a dumb one

Gonzo
23rd November 2006, 21:29
It isn't a good outcome but at least I still have an excuse to do little weekend trips away :) Fags are 4 euro a packet in Holland and 3.5 euro a packet in Luxembourg, I think they are even cheaper in Spain but I have never been there.

France has been putting up the duty on cigarettes quite a lot recently, so much so that if you do the booze cruise over to Calais it pays to drive the half hour or so along the motorway towards Bruges. The first place over the border in Belgium is called Adinkerke. They have a thriving industry selling cigarettes in bulk to the English. I even saw a refreshment van with a sign saying "PG Tips sold here". Tragic!

vista
23rd November 2006, 21:34
"The bottom line is that people vote for the Govt that sets local duties - if it bothered people enough they would have voted them out."

Never ever underestimate the stupidness of the UK population.





Our political parties have unified there simply isn't a choice anymore so its not about stupidity its about a corrupt political elite interested in power for powers sake.

All I hear are plumby to$$ers or scotsman telling me how much of my cash they have poured into ..... and how much they intend to pour into ....... yet they manage to avoid outcomes other than statistics they can corrupt to justify their snouts in the trough.

We are fecked, you're fecked, I'm fecked we're all fecked!!

DimPrawn
23rd November 2006, 21:36
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DOOMED!!!
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Gonzo
23rd November 2006, 21:38
Our political parties have unified there simply isn't a choice anymore so its not about stupidity its about a corrupt political elite interested in power for powers sake.

All I hear are plumby to$$ers or scotsman telling me how much of my cash they have poured into ..... and how much they intend to pour into ....... yet they manage to avoid outcomes other than statistics they can corrupt to justify their snouts in the trough.

We are fecked, you're fecked, I'm fecked we're all fecked!!

Agree 100%. They all sound like the typical manager - just interested in doing a "steering job" but not interested in taking any responsibility. Whatever happened to leadership?

The Clown Beater
23rd November 2006, 22:23
Just remember, legislation will only move things into the black market!

Why do you think people are trying to get rid of cash...

Francko
23rd November 2006, 22:52
Agree 100%. They all sound like the typical manager - just interested in doing a "steering job" but not interested in taking any responsibility. Whatever happened to leadership?

That's for leaders, not for managers. :)

The Clown Beater
23rd November 2006, 22:59
That's for leaders, not for managers. :)

Leaders, unmanagers and sheep. There is nothing else.

BoredBloke
24th November 2006, 09:49
Smuggled cigs loses Brown £3.5 billion alone. If the duty was lowered then then so too would the margin for the smugglers. In 2000 it was estimated that 25% of all the cigs sold in the UK were smuggled. If the thick fecker actually dropped his tax, then perhaps the amounts smuggled and those bought by people going to Europe to stock up would drop. As a result he might actually see a rise in the amount of tax brought in. I would have thought it was obvious that it is better to have these things purchased in this country as opposed to another.

threaded
24th November 2006, 19:19
Tony, you give the impression the government don't want this smuggling to happen, but oh yes they do! The more smuggled alcohol and fags, the more money eventually finds its way into the pockets of organised criminals and terrorists, who then use it to rip off, scam or even try and kill the likes of you and me, thereby giving the government ever more reasons to bring in dumb ass laws to 'protect us'.

I really despair that people in general can't see through all of this...

:(