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northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 08:07
Will be...

filthy1980
24th August 2017, 08:10
"despite Brexit" or "because of Brexit"

d'o'h just saw the survey

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 08:28
Spain seems to be growing nicely.


Spain’s economy grew by 0.9% in the second quarter compared to the first, new figures have confirmed.

This is a rise from 0.8% in the first quarter and equates to annual growth of 3.1%.

Jog On
24th August 2017, 08:30
Great because of a weak £ (caused by Brexit).

Just a speculative guess.

Does great mean better than forecast or just not awful?

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 08:32
Great because of a weak £ (caused by Brexit).

Just a speculative guess.

Does great mean better than forecast or just not awful?

Whatever you like. Just a bit of fun. It's only the revised figures in any case.

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 08:35
when is the announcement

Jog On
24th August 2017, 08:36
when is the announcement

5 mins ago

As expected except for Prelim Business Investment q/q which dissapointed

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 08:36
when is the announcement

As soon as Jacob Rees-Mogg has been burped by Nanny.

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 08:39
Boring.


The UK economy grew by 0.3% in the three months to June, in line with initial estimates. This equates to annual growth of 1.7%.

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 08:39
As soon as Jacob Rees-Mogg has been burped by Nanny.

lol

Milan.

WTFH
24th August 2017, 08:42
Northern Ireland figures should be good - plenty of cross border trade and an extra £1.5bn in the coffers.

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 08:55
Northern Ireland figures should be good - plenty of cross border trade and an extra £1.5bn in the coffers.

And tourism up massively in NI too:

Plummeting pound sees surge in visitors from Republic - Belfast Telegraph (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/plummeting-pound-sees-surge-in-visitors-from-republic-36043213.html)

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 08:57
And tourism up massively in NI too:

Plummeting pound sees surge in visitors from Republic - Belfast Telegraph (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/plummeting-pound-sees-surge-in-visitors-from-republic-36043213.html)

Sainsbury's - Please enable cookies or JavaScript (http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/gb/groceries/get-ideas/features/buy-6-save-25-percent-terms?langId=44&storeId=10151&krypto=rqQf%2B2r5HqOpxKewy0yKd73AnkKfXiSDwMJ8e8a67 7e1M%2FqU62MT5Xi%2B%2F8FMeds5gS7OwzjpjD07nNtx5zRHH vrkyO8fAv2wWEDDCSvmwrhTjNjxV6kTFhx35Bj1yAnKAm%2B7B 4xqIM%2Fz86AffwxeWUCjz%2B8Aqcl%2Blgw2Wz4tLxI%3D&ddkey=https%3Agb%2Fgroceries%2Fget-ideas%2Ffeatures%2Fbuy-6-save-25-percent-terms)

Jog On
24th August 2017, 08:57
And tourism up massively in NI too:

Plummeting pound sees surge in visitors from Republic - Belfast Telegraph (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/plummeting-pound-sees-surge-in-visitors-from-republic-36043213.html)

There is a reason that when central banks intervene in FX markets it's almost always to weaken their currency not strengthen it. Just ask the BOJ and SNB

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 08:59
There is a reason that when central banks intervene in FX markets it's almost always to weaken their currency not strengthen it. Just ask the BOJ and SNB

As someone recently said to me "every f**ker is devaluing".

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 08:59
There is a reason that when central banks intervene in FX markets it's almost always to weaken their currency not strengthen it. Just ask the BOJ and SNB

Think how much of the national debt could have been paid off by not having Brexit but opening up the printing presses instead to reach these ideal sterling levels.

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 09:03
Think how much of the national debt could have been paid off by not having Brexit but opening up the printing presses instead to reach these ideal sterling levels.

That's what inflation is for. That, and still having our own currency. And just to think if Tony Blair had got his way and forced us into the Euro all this would all be academic, we'd have have already hit the rocks.

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 09:51
Why is the UK the slowest growing economy in the EU? Surely the weak pound should be helping GDP?

Mordac
24th August 2017, 09:55
Spain seems to be growing nicely.


Spain’s economy grew by 0.9% in the second quarter compared to the first, new figures have confirmed.

0.9% of fairly close to fook all is still fairly close to fook all....

WTFH
24th August 2017, 10:07
0.9% of fairly close to fook all is still fairly close to fook all....

Or, to put it another way, it's 3x the UK growth.

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 10:10
Or, to put it another way, it's 3x the UK growth.

Try looking at UK GDP in real money terms.

http://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-gdp.png?s=wgdpuk&v=201707200903v

PurpleGorilla
24th August 2017, 10:53
Try looking at UK GDP in real money terms.

http://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-gdp.png?s=wgdpuk&v=201707200903v

Debt fuelled growth is not growth. Certainly when it's just recapitalising the financial system...

https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-government-debt-to-gdp@2x.png?s=gbrdebt2gdp&v=201707031815v

sasguru
24th August 2017, 10:58
Debt fuelled growth is not growth. Certainly when it's just recapitalising the financial system...



I expect debt to GDP to increase as a result of Brexit.
It's beginning to fall for all other EU members.

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 11:01
I expect debt to GDP to increase as a result of Brexit.
It's beginning to fall for all other EU members.

The great news is that debt is falling in USD terms.

BlasterBates
24th August 2017, 11:26
Consumers run out of steam (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-24/u-k-consumer-spending-barely-grows-restraining-economy)

Doesn't look good. What little growth is there is due to momentum that built up before the Brexit vote. In other words the referendum took place within the context of a good strong economy and rather like a free wheeling bicycle is now slowing down.

BlasterBates
24th August 2017, 11:29
UK to emulate N. Korea (http://www.cityam.com/270807/brexit-could-leave-third-food-and-drink-sector-unviable-eu)


Brexit could leave a third of food and drink sector unviable as EU workers flee Britain, firms warn

Britain should focus on buying smart uniforms for its armed services, get them to march up and down Trafalgar Square and fire ballistic missiles into the 12 mile limit to demonstrate its sovereignty.

BrilloPad
24th August 2017, 11:47
Consumers run out of steam (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-24/u-k-consumer-spending-barely-grows-restraining-economy)

Doesn't look good. What little growth is there is due to momentum that built up before the Brexit vote. In other words the referendum took place within the context of a good strong economy and rather like a free wheeling bicycle is now slowing down.

Germany manages very well without large consumer spending.

The UK should have to learn to do the same.

However, any sign of weakness and there will be more QE. When the bubble eventually bursts(next generation) it will be life changing.

BrilloPad
24th August 2017, 11:48
Brexit could leave a third of food and drink sector unviable as EU workers flee Britain, firms warn

Benefits will be cut.

HTH

Mordac
24th August 2017, 11:50
Or, to put it another way, it's 3x the UK growth.

Probably caused by the fear of an impending Corbyn government...

WTFH
24th August 2017, 11:57
Probably caused by the fear of an impending Corbyn government...

Why would there be a Corbyn government? The current government is doing such a good job!

Jog On
24th August 2017, 12:22
Consumers run out of steam (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-24/u-k-consumer-spending-barely-grows-restraining-economy)

Doesn't look good. What little growth is there is due to momentum that built up before the Brexit vote. In other words the referendum took place within the context of a good strong economy and rather like a free wheeling bicycle is now slowing down.

With or without front brakes?

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 12:40
With or without front brakes?

the wheel is rubbing against the frame and slowing itself down

Milan.

scooterscot
24th August 2017, 13:03
Germany manages very well without large consumer spending.

The UK should have to learn to do the same. .

The Germany government makes long term plans to encourage stable growth. UK favours short-term fix it jobs until the next election. Rinse and repeat.

Mordac
24th August 2017, 13:10
Why would there be a Corbyn government? The current government is doing such a good job!

I see what you did there...:wink

Mordac
24th August 2017, 13:13
The Germany government makes long term plans to encourage stable growth. UK favours short-term fix it jobs until the next election. Rinse and repeat.

The Greeks would probably disagree with that assessment. I'm sure Phil will be along shortly to give his own opinion re. the Germans...:smokin

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 13:17
Probably caused by the fear of an impending Corbyn government...

Caused by the snap election caused by the EU Referendum result.

PurpleGorilla
24th August 2017, 13:25
Consumers run out of steam (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-24/u-k-consumer-spending-barely-grows-restraining-economy)

Doesn't look good. What little growth is there is due to momentum that built up before the Brexit vote. In other words the referendum took place within the context of a good strong economy and rather like a free wheeling bicycle is now slowing down.

It's the end of the debt binge. Can't go on forever.

BrilloPad
24th August 2017, 13:26
It's the end of the debt binge. Can't go on forever.

Rubbish! A long way to go yet.

Jog On
24th August 2017, 13:28
the wheel is rubbing against the frame and slowing itself down

Milan.

At least it has a strong and stable inner tube...

BrilloPad
24th August 2017, 13:30
At least it has a strong and stable inner tube...

Just waiting for the French to moan about the "magic" wheels....

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 13:30
The Germany government makes long term plans to encourage stable growth. UK favours short-term fix it jobs until the next election. Rinse and repeat.

the thing is, Zee Germanz are really long term planners, and they invest in their country, their infrastructure, their people, their industries for the long term, 30, 50, 70, 100 years terms

and well, can we ever see the quick bucks UK ever behaving like that ?

Milan.

BlasterBates
24th August 2017, 13:34
Brexit latest Hotel and restaurant industry at risk due to end of free movement of workers | UK | News | Express.co.uk (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/845257/Brexit-news-UK-hotel-restaurant-holiday-industry-killed-workers-flow-video)


survey commissioned by the British Hospitality Association (BHA) estimated that 85% of UK waiters and waitresses are from the European Union.

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 13:38
Brexit latest Hotel and restaurant industry at risk due to end of free movement of workers | UK | News | Express.co.uk (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/845257/Brexit-news-UK-hotel-restaurant-holiday-industry-killed-workers-flow-video)

rotflmfao

more jobz for the local boyz instead of those nasty foreignerz taking all the jobz innit

Milan.

PurpleGorilla
24th August 2017, 13:39
Rubbish! A long way to go yet.

Not if house prices stop going up.

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 13:42
Not if house prices stop going up.


thing is ladz

the foreignerz leaving is going to have a catastrophic effect on the housing market especially buy to let

and consequently house prices

I am surprised nobody has realized this

weak pound and weak house prices

popcorn

Milan.

WTFH
24th August 2017, 13:43
Not if house prices stop going up.

Well, if you look at UK house prices in a strong and stable currency (i.e. Not the GBP) then maybe they aren't going up much, if at all.

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 13:45
a quick search confirms

everyone thinks with Brexit house prices will stagnate or fall (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=brexit+house+prices&oq=brexit+house+prices&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4.182542.185291.0.186282.19.11.0.0.0.0.451 .1219.0j5j4-1.6.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..13.6.1219...0i131k1.GJioMRuJAm4)

good luck those who've bet their retirement on house prices

Milan.

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 13:50
a quick search confirms

everyone thinks with Brexit house prices will stagnate or fall (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=brexit+house+prices&oq=brexit+house+prices&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4.182542.185291.0.186282.19.11.0.0.0.0.451 .1219.0j5j4-1.6.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..13.6.1219...0i131k1.GJioMRuJAm4)

good luck those who've bet their retirement on house prices

Milan.

And who on earth does that?

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 13:52
And who on earth does that?


it might not be us, but there are a significant number of people in blighty who are betting on downsizing and taking the cash and living off it

Milan.

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 13:54
it might not be us, but there are a significant number of people in blighty who are betting on downsizing and taking the cash and living off it

Milan.


just have a look at a few of these links (https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&q=downsizing+to+finance+retirement&oq=downsizing+to+finance+retirement&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.870.6786.0.7312.35.29.0.0.0.0.400. 4602.0j11j7j3j1.22.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..13.21.4461.0..0j0i46i67k1j46i67k1j0i67k1j0i131 k1j0i20k1j33i160k1j33i21k1.1Iq0cJTje64)

it ain't gonna be a pretty picture

Milan.

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 14:14
oooops they've all gone quiet :laugh

Milan.

PurpleGorilla
24th August 2017, 14:18
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-24/did-economy-just-stumble-cliff

NotAllThere
24th August 2017, 14:30
good luck those who've bet their retirement on house prices

Milan.Dunno, sounds good. I sell my house here and buy Surrey.

sasguru
24th August 2017, 14:35
And who on earth does that?

Most people especially old Brexiters :laugh:laugh
I do hope house prices fall off a cliff.

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 14:37
Most people especially old Brexiters :laugh:laugh
I do hope house prices fall off a cliff.

Er, right you are. :grin

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 14:37
Dunno, sounds good. I sell my house here and buy Surrey.

yes NAT, the winners will be expats ;-)

Milan.

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 14:50
I guess the silent ones (you know who I mean) are all quickly sat with their calculators and excels looking at how a house price crash will impact their retirement dreams

Milan.

sasguru
24th August 2017, 14:51
Er, right you are. :grin

Dunno why this surprises you. Britain's prosperity is largely a ponzi scheme built on the price of property.
You and I know that, most don't.

Britain's wealth is locked into property, forcing people to release equity for retirement | This is Money (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-3707117/Britain-s-wealth-locked-property-forcing-people-release-equity-pay-retirement.html)

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 14:51
I guess the silent ones (you know who I mean) are all quickly sat with their calculators and excels looking at how a house price crash will impact their retirement dreams

Milan.

Where is dim?

sasguru
24th August 2017, 14:54
Where is dim?

Last I heard he was going to leverage his rusty C++ skills to become a Mediterranean playboy millionaire.
Bit like AussieSchlong. Oh wait ....

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 14:56
Last I heard he was going to leverage his rusty C++ skills to become a Mediterranean playboy millionaire.
Bit like AussieSchlong. Oh wait ....

The oligarchs can always do with an extra pole-choker pool boy.

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 15:15
Dunno why this surprises you. Britain's prosperity is largely a ponzi scheme built on the price of property.
You and I know that, most don't.

Britain's wealth is locked into property, forcing people to release equity for retirement | This is Money (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-3707117/Britain-s-wealth-locked-property-forcing-people-release-equity-pay-retirement.html)

I really shouldn't have, but I did have a quick read of that. It's saying a lot will have to downsize, which, isn't quite the same as not having two brass farthings to rub together. Anyway, hadn't you sell your place first before this crash thing happens?

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 15:30
I really shouldn't have, but I did have a quick read of that. It's saying a lot will have to downsize, which, isn't quite the same as not having two brass farthings to rub together. Anyway, hadn't you sell your place first before this crash thing happens?

the point is, let's say you are 60 planning to retire today and your family residence is worth 1million today and you sell it and buy something smaller for 500k and bank the other 500k to live off at 30k per year for the next 15 years

and now let's fast forward a few years time....

let's say you are 60 planning to retire today and your family residence was worth 1million a few years ago is now worth 600k today and you sell it and buy something smaller for 300k and bank the other 300k to live off at 30k per year for the next 10 years

you see the problem

Milan.

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 15:31
the point is, let's say you are 60 planning to retire today and your family residence is worth 1million today and you sell it and buy something smaller for 500k and bank the other 500k to live off at 30k per year for the next 15 years

and now let's fast forward a few years time....

let's say you are 60 planning to retire today and your family residence was worth 1million a few years ago is now worth 600k today and you sell it and buy something smaller for 300k and bank the other 300k to live off at 30k per year for the next 10 years

you see the problem

Milan.

The price of freedom, my friend.

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 15:38
the point is, let's say you are 60 planning to retire today and your family residence is worth 1million today and you sell it and buy something smaller for 500k and bank the other 500k to live off at 30k per year for the next 15 years

and now let's fast forward a few years time....

let's say you are 60 planning to retire today and your family residence was worth 1million a few years ago is now worth 600k today and you sell it and buy something smaller for 250k and bank the other 250k to live off at 30k per year for the next 8 years

you see the problem

Milan.

So they don't get quite such a jolly retirement. Even under those circumstances it's not as if they'll be living on beans on toast sitting next to a one bar electric fire.

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 15:40
So they don't get quite such a jolly retirement. Even under those circumstances it's not as if they'll be living on beans on toast sitting next to a one bar electric fire.

I guess some other poor sod gets the downgrade to that. Still, red, white and blue Brexit, eh?

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 15:42
So they don't get quite such a jolly retirement. Even under those circumstances it's not as if they'll be living on beans on toast sitting next to a one bar electric fire.


it all depends how long they expect to live doesn't it

Milan.

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 15:42
I guess some other poor sod gets the downgrade to that. Still, red, white and blue Brexit, eh?

Just as good as the green, white and gold property boom which I see is well underway again. :laugh

BlasterBates
24th August 2017, 15:43
So they don't get quite such a jolly retirement. Even under those circumstances it's not as if they'll be living on beans on toast sitting next to a one bar electric fire.

So to summarise, life won't be as jolly but the courts will still be under the ECJ thumb, the UK will still be making huge contributions to the EU budget, the UK will still be in a customs union, will implement the EU regulations and freedom of movement will continue.

However those of us Euro assets will be much better off.

:D

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 15:44
So to summarise, life won't be as jolly but the courts will still be under the ECJ thumb, the UK will still be making huge contributions to the EU budget, the UK will still be in a customs union, will implement the EU regulations and freedom of movement will continue.

However those of us Euro assets will be much better off.

:D

I take it you're coming back then. :grin

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 15:46
Just as good as the green, white and gold property boom which I see is well underway again. :laugh

In GBP terms, it's sky-rocketing.

BlasterBates
24th August 2017, 15:48
Another British company issues a profit warning due to weak demand (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-24/dixons-forecasts-profit-drop-on-weak-u-k-mobile-phone-demand)

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 15:51
this thread is soooooo boring without the Brexiters, where's Mordy and crew ?

Milan.

The_Equalizer
24th August 2017, 15:52
In GBP terms, it's sky-rocketing.

Quite worrying for EU immigrants living in the UK.

milanbenes
24th August 2017, 15:52
Quite worrying for EU immigrants living in the UK.


that's why they're all leaving

self fulfilling prophecy

Milan.

darmstadt
24th August 2017, 15:57
The Greeks would probably disagree with that assessment. I'm sure Phil will be along shortly to give his own opinion re. the Germans...:smokin

Oh I don't know. A German elevated his status and has given him a pretty good life :laugh

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 16:00
Quite worrying for EU immigrants living in the UK.

Or for anyone who wants out, or who will see their job moving. Glad I got the house sold and the money out at £1 = €1.43 or thereabouts.

PurpleGorilla
24th August 2017, 16:44
the point is, let's say you are 60 planning to retire today and your family residence is worth 1million today and you sell it and buy something smaller for 500k and bank the other 500k to live off at 30k per year for the next 15 years

and now let's fast forward a few years time....

let's say you are 60 planning to retire today and your family residence was worth 1million a few years ago is now worth 600k today and you sell it and buy something smaller for 300k and bank the other 300k to live off at 30k per year for the next 10 years

you see the problem

Milan.

Boomers

DimPrawn
24th August 2017, 17:00
Or, to put it another way, it's 3x the UK growth.

The main growth driver in Spain is the public spending, which is being driven by cheap Euros printed via QE.

Why ECB president is still flooding the system with cheap money (http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/08/24/why-ecb-president-is-still-flooding-the-system-with-cheap-money/page/1/)

So basically, loading up on free loans and credit cards and spending. Sound familiar?

PurpleGorilla
24th August 2017, 17:06
The main growth driver in Spain is the public spending, which is being driven by cheap Euros printed via QE.

Why ECB president is still flooding the system with cheap money (http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/08/24/why-ecb-president-is-still-flooding-the-system-with-cheap-money/page/1/)

So basically, loading up on free loans and credit cards and spending. Sound familiar?

Sentiment is everything. When that crumbles, the euro is toast.

Mordac
24th August 2017, 17:21
this thread is soooooo boring without the Brexiters, where's Mordy and crew ?

Milan.

:wave: Beansey!

It's getting a little tedious, having to put up with Juncker's disciples and their endless ferreting for any bad news which may or may not be Brexit related. :ladybags:

I might look in later if there's nothing on telly.

northernladyuk
24th August 2017, 17:25
Sentiment is everything. When that crumbles, the euro is toast.

Which would be great for Eurozone exports and tourism. :laugh

BlasterBates
25th August 2017, 11:26
Brexit is marvelous, it will generate almost 90,000 new jobs in Frankfurt alone, particularly if the EU plays hard ball.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Fsozia les%2Ffinanzlobby-verspricht-zehntausende-neue-jobs-ausserhalb-des-bankensektors-a-1164489.html

Of course as Professor Minford has pointed out, it will generate 135 billion in the UK.

This is a win win as hundreds of thousands of jobs move to the EU and yet the UK GDP will grow by 135 billion.

:music:

sasguru
25th August 2017, 11:41
The main growth driver in Spain is the public spending ...

Wrong. I love the way you Brexiters ignore evidence that doesn't fit your narrative :laugh

Why Spain is becoming an export powerhouse | IE Focus (http://focus.ie.edu/why-spain-becoming-export-powerhouse)

Inicio - Elcano (http://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/wps/portal/rielcano_en/contenido?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/elcano/elcano_in/zonas_in/international+economy/ari47-2013-chislett-spain-exports-economy-salvation)

Anyway Dim, I thought you were leaving? :D

sasguru
25th August 2017, 11:50
Brexit is marvelous, it will generate almost 90,000 new jobs in Frankfurt alone, particularly if the EU plays hard ball.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Fsozia les%2Ffinanzlobby-verspricht-zehntausende-neue-jobs-ausserhalb-des-bankensektors-a-1164489.html



The Germans are not stupid enough to just count the total jobs gained but also the ancillary and support jobs created by high net worth individuals.
The converse is also true - many more jobs are lost than the overall total of bankers leaving.
Some cretinous Brexiter on here, can't remember who, said "who cares if some bankers move out of London?"
Well considering that the top 25% pay 75% of all taxes in the UK (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2580074/Top-25-earners-pay-75-ALL-income-tax-half-country-contributes-10.html), losses of these peoples' taxes affect the ability to support the NHS, army, police etc. etc.

It's ironic that Brexit is probably the largest biggest threat to the NHS as it currently exists. :D
I really hope it does collapse.

woohoo
25th August 2017, 12:41
Wrong. I love the way you Brexiters ignore evidence that doesn't fit your narrative :laugh

Why Spain is becoming an export powerhouse | IE Focus (http://focus.ie.edu/why-spain-becoming-export-powerhouse)

Inicio - Elcano (http://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/wps/portal/rielcano_en/contenido?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/elcano/elcano_in/zonas_in/international+economy/ari47-2013-chislett-spain-exports-economy-salvation)

Anyway Dim, I thought you were leaving? :D

I read the first article and again pure propaganda.

Spains debt has only increased and will require many years of sustained growth to pay back. Lots of buying of bonds etc from the ECB to help Spain out.

The competitiveness for Spain is from cutting wages and making it easier to hire/fire people. Pensions etc all trimmed. So the people are poorer. That kind of race to the bottom is not my idea of success.

Huge unemployment.

The EU either reforms or it will collapse.

woohoo
25th August 2017, 12:43
The Germans are not stupid enough to just count the total jobs gained but also the ancillary and support jobs created by high net worth individuals.
The converse is also true - many more jobs are lost than the overall total of bankers leaving.
Some cretinous Brexiter on here, can't remember who, said "who cares if some bankers move out of London?"
Well considering that the top 25% pay 75% of all taxes in the UK (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2580074/Top-25-earners-pay-75-ALL-income-tax-half-country-contributes-10.html), losses of these peoples' taxes affect the ability to support the NHS, army, police etc. etc.

It's ironic that Brexit is probably the largest biggest threat to the NHS as it currently exists. :D
I really hope it does collapse.

So all the top earners are going to move to Frankfurt, nonsense. Stop it with the moaning sasy and get with the times.

Bigger better things.

milanbenes
25th August 2017, 12:43
The competitiveness for Spain is from cutting wages and making it easier to hire/fire people. Pensions etc all trimmed. So the people are poorer. That kind of race to the bottom is not my idea of success

that's the British model isn't it ?

Milan.

sasguru
25th August 2017, 12:54
I read the first article and again pure propaganda.

Which numbers do you think are false ? :rolleyes:
Here are some other articles on this:

https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21723446-having-tackled-its-problems-earlier-italy-or-greece-spain-now-seeing-results-spains
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/business/spain-europe-economy-recovery-unemployment.html?mcubz=0

Spain is creating 500,000 jobs a year. It produces more cars than the UK and has for years.



Spains debt has only increased and will require many years of sustained growth to pay back. Lots of buying of bonds etc from the ECB to help Spain out.


Of course everyone's debt increased due to the 2007 credit crunch. Uk's debt will rise after Brexit. It's the direction of travel that matters.



The competitiveness for Spain is from cutting wages and making it easier to hire/fire people. Pensions etc all trimmed. So the people are poorer. That kind of race to the bottom is not my idea of success.


The UK is the easiest place to fire people in EUrope. Plenty of low-paid jobs being created here as the lack of wage rises show.
The post Brexit model held dear by the right-wing Tories is a low cost economy and arace to the bottom.




The EU either reforms or it will collapse.


You'llbe saying that 10 years from now, when we're the poor man of Europe.:D
At the moment it's gowing twice as fast as the UK.

BlasterBates
25th August 2017, 12:57
I read the first article and again pure propaganda.

Spains debt has only increased and will require many years of sustained growth to pay back. Lots of buying of bonds etc from the ECB to help Spain out.

The competitiveness for Spain is from cutting wages and making it easier to hire/fire people. Pensions etc all trimmed. So the people are poorer. That kind of race to the bottom is not my idea of success.

Huge unemployment.

The EU either reforms or it will collapse.


UK economy deteriorates, whilst the Eurozone strengthens (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-25/bank-of-england-is-vindicated-as-growth-deteriorates)


Revised numbers on second-quarter growth released this week look pretty shabby. Consumer spending, the lifeblood of Britain's economy for decades, barely grew at all, and business spending stagnated. That's especially disappointing given that the euro zone next door -- derided by euroskeptics as a place of sclerosis, strangled by regulation -- is going from strength to strength.

woohoo
25th August 2017, 13:05
Which numbers do you think are false ? :rolleyes:
Here are some other articles on this:

https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21723446-having-tackled-its-problems-earlier-italy-or-greece-spain-now-seeing-results-spains
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/business/spain-europe-economy-recovery-unemployment.html?mcubz=0

Spain is creating 500,000 jobs a year. It produces more cars than the UK and has for years.



Of course everyone's debt increased due to the 2007 credit crunch. Uk's debt will rise after Brexit. It's the direction of travel that matters.



The UK is the easiest place to fire people in EUrope. Plenty of low-paid jobs being created here as the lack of wage rises show.
The post Brexit model held dear by the right-wing Tories is a low cost economy and arace to the bottom.




You'llbe saying that 10 years from now, when we're the poor man of Europe.:D
At the moment it's gowing twice as fast as the UK.

No you are saying the EU is a success then holding Spain up as example of this. I'm pointing out that it's driven by making people poorer, debt, bond purchasing, effectively loans, bank bailouts etc.

It's the EU doing it's best to prop up a failing model by throwing borrowed money at it.

You perhaps are foolish enough to read some headline numbers and believe that fundamental problems are being addressed. But I understand the bigger picture which I think you struggle with.

sasguru
25th August 2017, 13:19
No you are saying the EU is a success that holding Spain up as example of this. I'm pointing out that it's driven by making people poorer, debt, bond purchasing, effectively loans, bank bailouts etc.

.

So you're ignoring the export numbers (you know making things and selling 'em) because it doesn't fit with your beliefs? :laugh:laugh
You're basically thick as mince but have delusions of intellectual adequacy. That's not an insult BTW just an obvious statement of fact.

woohoo
25th August 2017, 15:55
So you're ignoring the export numbers (you know making things and selling 'em) because it doesn't fit with your beliefs? :laugh:laugh
You're basically thick as mince but have delusions of intellectual adequacy. That's not an insult BTW just an obvious statement of fact.

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm telling you why I think the EU is a failure and holding up Spain as an achievement is well, lets say in your words, cretinous.

darmstadt
26th August 2017, 07:45
The Germans are not stupid enough to just count the total jobs gained but also the ancillary and support jobs created by high net worth individuals.
The converse is also true - many more jobs are lost than the overall total of bankers leaving.
Some cretinous Brexiter on here, can't remember who, said "who cares if some bankers move out of London?"
Well considering that the top 25% pay 75% of all taxes in the UK (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2580074/Top-25-earners-pay-75-ALL-income-tax-half-country-contributes-10.html), losses of these peoples' taxes affect the ability to support the NHS, army, police etc. etc.

It's ironic that Brexit is probably the largest biggest threat to the NHS as it currently exists. :D
I really hope it does collapse.

I pointed this out some time ago. People don't seem to realise that for x number of finance industry jobs moving out, there are y number of support jobs also going from the person who makes the sandwiches, the office cleaners, recruitment agents and so on. It all has a knock on effect, much like when Nissan move a large part of their manufacturing away from Sunderalnd, all the support industries will also be totally knacked...

_V_
26th August 2017, 08:51
Or for anyone who wants out, or who will see their job moving. Glad I got the house sold and the money out at £1 = €1.43 or thereabouts.

Smart move and well timed.

DimPrawn
26th August 2017, 09:01
Where is dim?

Dim is selling his property empire right now, renting, then escaping Corybyn's Britain***

I have enough total net worth to retire now in relative comfort compared to living under Comrade Corbyn's Venezuelan utopia.

*** The next govt here will be ultra-left wing / communist

sasguru
26th August 2017, 10:58
Dim is selling his property empire right now, renting, then escaping Corybyn's Britain***

I have enough total net worth to retire now in relative comfort compared to living under Comrade Corbyn's Venezuelan utopia.

*** The next govt here will be ultra-left wing / communist

And in other news Brexiter cocks up Britain and (tries to) retire to the EU.
You couldn't make it up.
:laugh:laugh:rollin::rollin:

scooterscot
26th August 2017, 13:38
No you are saying the EU is a success then holding Spain up as example of this. I'm pointing out that it's driven by making people poorer, debt, bond purchasing, effectively loans, bank bailouts etc.

It's the EU doing it's best to prop up a failing model by throwing borrowed money at it.

You perhaps are foolish enough to read some headline numbers and believe that fundamental problems are being addressed. But I understand the bigger picture which I think you struggle with.

1) The EU prime objective is to maintain peace in Europe. I'd say it's a resounding success.

2) I don't believe any Brexit voter understands the bigger pictures let alone articulate it. Even as a remain voter I was uncertain what the UK would be like outside the EU and remain so.

3) The EU does not make people poorer. Governments do that by making promises they can't keep only to win an election. It is worth noting the current Tory government has tripled public debt.

4) I suspect most people in the UK don't know what it actually means to be poor.

scooterscot
26th August 2017, 13:40
I pointed this out some time ago. People don't seem to realise that for x number of finance industry jobs moving out, there are y number of support jobs also going from the person who makes the sandwiches, the office cleaners, recruitment agents and so on. It all has a knock on effect, much like when Nissan move a large part of their manufacturing away from Sunderalnd, all the support industries will also be totally knacked...

You can see some manufacturers like Nissan moving their operations to the EU if the cost of importing raw material continues to climb.

It's not they're taking sides.... its just business.

woohoo
26th August 2017, 15:16
1) The EU prime objective is to maintain peace in Europe. I'd say it's a resounding success.

2) I don't believe any Brexit voter understands the bigger pictures let alone articulate it. Even as a remain voter I was uncertain what the UK would be like outside the EU and remain so.

3) The EU does not make people poorer. Governments do that by making promises they can't keep only to win an election. It is worth noting the current Tory government has tripled public debt.

4) I suspect most people in the UK don't know what it actually means to be poor.

Sigh. Scoots we have been over these points before, nothing more to add. Boring me now.

sasguru
27th August 2017, 08:42
Sigh. Scoots we have been over these points before, nothing more to add. Boring me now.

Brexiters are as thick as **** – Tuckered (http://tuckered.co.uk/2017/07/12/brexiters-are-as-thick-as-****/)