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sasguru
1st September 2017, 10:47
This Sky article kind of crystalises what my thinking has been over the last few days watching the Brexit negs.

Sky Views: Brexit talks cannot succeed (http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-brexit-talks-cannot-succeed-11015205)

"...And that is because of a mistake Theresa May made on day one of becoming prime minister. She adopted the language and approach of the Leave campaign, hook, line and sinker and she failed to prepare the way for the inevitable compromise which would be part of any bespoke deal."

The_Equalizer
1st September 2017, 11:00
This Sky article kind of crystalises what my thinking has been over the last few days watching the Brexit negs.

Sky Views: Brexit talks cannot succeed (http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-brexit-talks-cannot-succeed-11015205)

"...And that is because of a mistake Theresa May made on day one of becoming prime minister. She adopted the language and approach of the Leave campaign, hook, line and sinker and she failed to prepare the way for the inevitable compromise which would be part of any bespoke deal."

Bounce.

scooterscot
1st September 2017, 11:10
That must have been difficult for them to write.

Platypus
1st September 2017, 12:10
Ah and there was me thinking it was because the EU27 / Barnier / Drunker were being bloody minded, protecting their bureaucracy and non-free-trade bloc.

But no, it's all TM's fault. (c) The Independent, the Guardian, the BBC, SKY, the FT.

milanbenes
1st September 2017, 12:21
Ah and there was me thinking it was because the EU27 / Barnier / Drunker were being bloody minded, protecting their bureaucracy and non-free-trade bloc.

But no, it's all TM's fault. (c) The Independent, the Guardian, the BBC, SKY, the FT.



how is the EU not a free trade bloc ?


Milan.

SueEllen
1st September 2017, 12:22
Ah and there was me thinking it was because the EU27 / Barnier / Drunker were being bloody minded, protecting their bureaucracy and non-free-trade bloc.

But no, it's all TM's fault. (c) The Independent, the Guardian, the BBC, SKY, the FT.

It is.

As Home Secretary meeting up with her counterparts in Europe she would know how negotiation happens in the EU. So she should have been using that knowledge when she became PM.

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 12:31
Ah and there was me thinking it was because the EU27 / Barnier / Drunker were being bloody minded, protecting their bureaucracy and non-free-trade bloc.

But no, it's all TM's fault. (c) The Independent, the Guardian, the BBC, SKY, the FT.

This persecution complex may make you feel better in the short term, but it won't keep the British people in jobs.

The_Equalizer
1st September 2017, 12:50
There seems to be life in this thread after all.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 12:53
This persecution complex may make you feel better in the short term, but it won't keep the British people in jobs.

Nonsense. But keep on with the negativity but I do worry your old heart won't cope with the strain of all your depressive thinking.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 12:54
There seems to be life in this thread after all.

It's more like something from the walking dead, just won't die.

BR14
1st September 2017, 12:57
There seems to be life in this thread after all.
it IS life, but not as we know it

sasguru
1st September 2017, 12:58
It's more like something from the walking dead, just won't die.

Feel free to **** off out of it then.

motoukenin
1st September 2017, 13:00
Dont you understand its the EU's fault if this goes wrong. Also when the economy takes a dive while we are on WTO rules it will be the rest of the world's fault for borrowing us too much money.

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 13:00
Nonsense. But keep on with the negativity but I do worry your old heart won't cope with the strain of all your depressive thinking.

I'm taking positive action to make sure I'm fine. That's why I'm so cheerful like the rest of the emigrants and ex-pats.

I haven't heard much lately in the way of Brexiteers celebrating what a success it's all turning out to be.

SueEllen
1st September 2017, 13:01
David Davis is currently speaking in the US. He's speaking about the Empire...

WTFH
1st September 2017, 13:09
David Davis is currently speaking in the US. He's speaking about the Empire...

Just checked and he's not got a gig there.
https://hackneyempire.co.uk/whats-on/?genre=comedy

Only Henning Wehn and Jimmy Carr

rl4engc
1st September 2017, 13:13
It's more like something from the walking dead, just won't die.

Neither will Assguru, he spends his days trawling news sites, then as soon as he finds a "The UK is Tulip", "We're all Fooked", "Brexit will fail" type headline, he's over here onto this forum as fast as you can say "Assguru, do some fecking work you absolute Twunt." to cut and paste the link and a quote.

He probably has a Visual Basic macro to assist him as it's become such a repetetive task for him. :rolleyes:

woohoo
1st September 2017, 13:15
Feel free to **** off out of it then.

I'm free to do what I want Sassy. I don't need an angry mummies boy like you to advise me.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 13:17
I'm taking positive action to make sure I'm fine. That's why I'm so cheerful like the rest of the emigrants and ex-pats.

I haven't heard much lately in the way of Brexiteers celebrating what a success it's all turning out to be.

I didn't expect it to be walk in the park. But doing something important is sometimes hard and takes a little time.

But I am worried about what will happen when the EU fails, I would like them to do well.

sasguru
1st September 2017, 14:08
Neither will Assguru, he spends his days trawling news sites, then as soon as he finds a "The UK is Tulip", "We're all Fooked", "Brexit will fail" type headline, he's over here onto this forum as fast as you can say "Assguru, do some fecking work you absolute Twunt." to cut and paste the link and a quote.

He probably has a Visual Basic macro to assist him as it's become such a repetetive task for him. :rolleyes:

So in you opinion Brexit is going swimmingly?
Been abroad recently?
WHat do think of the progress of the talks?
Are you for a hard or soft Brexit?

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 14:11
So in you opinion Brexit is going swimmingly?
Been abroad recently?
WHat do think of the progress of the talks?
Are you for a hard or soft Brexit?

Everyone abroad is just a sheep apparently.

I detect a change in tone from hilarity at the UK's stupidity to concern for its future.

BlasterBates
1st September 2017, 14:13
Brexit is now a pipe dream.

Labour to keep Britain in the EU (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-negotiations-uk-single-market-stay-permanently-tom-watson-labour-eu-soft-a7924046.html)

No-one believes in it anymore, apart from a few fanatical Tories.

:D

woohoo
1st September 2017, 14:14
Everyone abroad is just a sheep apparently.

I detect a change in tone from hilarity at the UK's stupidity to concern for its future.

You mean the tone of a determined people to get on with it and stop moaning? Should you not be on the Guardian comments section, surely you will have more of a fan base there.

I also think when you start agreeing with sasy boy you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

sasguru
1st September 2017, 14:16
You mean the tone of a determined people to get on with it and stop moaning? Should you not be on the Guardian comments section, surely you will have more of a fan base there.

I also think when you start agreeing with sasy boy you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

So you agree we need to leave the CU and SM?

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 14:16
You mean the tone of a determined people to get on with it and stop moaning? Should you not be on the Guardian comments section, surely you will have more of a fan base there.

I also think when you start agreeing with sasy boy you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

Determined to drive over the cliff edge and stop moaning? Sometimes determination is just bloody mindedness.

I also think when you start agreeing with the BNP, EDL and SWP you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 14:24
Determined to drive over the cliff edge and stop moaning? Sometimes determination is just bloody mindedness.

I also think when you start agreeing with the BNP, EDL and SWP you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

There you go, now I'm a racist, fascist blah blah. This is why we can't have nice things.

SueEllen
1st September 2017, 14:27
There you go, now I'm a racist, fascist blah blah. This is why we can't have nice things.

Interesting interpretation - you could instead explain why your view differs from those groups.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 14:31
Interesting interpretation - you could instead explain why your view differs from those groups.

If there was group of Nazis that wanted to kill non-white people but they like to look at men in Lycra, in fact they have a policy for it. I could say you share some of the same views as the Nazis racist union (NRU).

But I wouldn't do that because it's a strange thing to do, to associate your reasonable views on Lycra with a murdering bunch of loonies. I would be implying that you to are a murdering racist, which you may well be.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 14:38
So you agree we need to leave the CU and SM?

I believe the EU and the UK need a trade deal. If tariffs are imposed it only hurts the people that have to buy the products, the EU and UK consumer. Both the EU and UK net income will drop if tariffs are imposed.

The only reason for not having a trade deal is political, the EU don't want Brexit to be a success.

So yes, out of the SM and CU.

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 14:39
There you go, now I'm a racist, fascist blah blah. This is why we can't have nice things.

And now you're the victim again! Don't worry. Just keep on being determined and it will all work on fine, I'm sure.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 14:41
And now you're the victim again! Don't worry. Just keep on being determined and it will all work on fine, I'm sure.

Passive aggressive as usual, your stress levels must be through the roof. Have you tried laughing yoga?

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 14:47
Passive aggressive as usual, your stress levels must be through the roof. Have you tried laughing yoga?

You really are determined.

sasguru
1st September 2017, 14:59
I believe the EU and the UK need a trade deal. If tariffs are imposed it only hurts the people that have to buy the products, the EU and UK consumer. Both the EU and UK net income will drop if tariffs are imposed.
.

Seeing as the UK economy is 80% services, tariffs are hardly the issue. Non-tariff barriers in the services economy are far more important.
But as a Brexiter, I don't really expect you to know that, or much of anything TBH.

SueEllen
1st September 2017, 15:09
If there was group of Nazis that wanted to kill non-white people but they like to look at men in Lycra, in fact they have a policy for it. I could say you share some of the same views as the Nazis racist union (NRU).

But I wouldn't do that because it's a strange thing to do, to associate your reasonable views on Lycra with a murdering bunch of loonies. I would be implying that you to are a murdering racist, which you may well be.

But your views on Brexit aren't reasonable. You want to be out of the CU and SM but want a free trade deal which gives us the same thing.

scooterscot
1st September 2017, 15:13
I didn't expect it to be walk in the park. But doing something important is sometimes hard and takes a little time.

This one time I was in a car accident. Smashed every bone in my body. Couldn't work so lost my job and my house when the mortgage payments fell behind. The Mrs left me for new fruit. Then a fraudster took all my savings. Thought it couldn't get any worse until.. unable to move there lying on my bed and a cat jumped up and urinated on my face. But still sometimes it's hard and takes a little time.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 15:13
Seeing as the UK economy is 80% services, tariffs are hardly the issue. Non-tariff barriers in the services economy are far more important.
But as a Brexiter, I don't really expect you to know that, or much of anything TBH.

Tariffs are an issue, we do still export stuff. The EU exports more stuff to us. Tariffs will affect both economies.

Services are important to us, again a trade deal that will need to be struck to enable services to be sold. Again, both the EU and UK sell services to each other, we sell more to them.

Try to discuss things and perhaps you will learn.

scooterscot
1st September 2017, 15:16
Tariffs are an issue, we do still export stuff. The EU exports more stuff to us..

Many of the FTSE 100 companies are not UK owned. Yes they export stuff. Will it continue if they face of increasing raw material import costs Sterling crashes?

woohoo
1st September 2017, 15:16
This one time I was in a car accident. Smashed every bone in my body. Couldn't work so lost my job and my house when the mortgage payments fell behind. The Mrs left me for new fruit. Then a fraudster took all my savings. Thought it couldn't get any worse until.. unable to move there lying on my bed and a cat jumped up and urinated on my face. But still sometimes it's hard and takes a little time.

That's a sad tale you tell. I'm sorry that your accident left you brain damaged and unable to reason. But to be clear, leaving the EU is not the same as your cat pissing on your face, which is a sentence I never imagined writing.

But Scoots please fell free to PM me before you post stupid stuff.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 15:20
Many of the FTSE 100 companies are not UK owned. Yes they export stuff. Will it continue if they face of increasing raw material import costs Sterling crashes?

It depends on the sector. If you sell more perhaps because your product is cheaper to the overseas market then yes.

We moved away from cheap manufacturing because we could not compete with low cost economies and I think it's correct we should still focus on high end science and engineering.

scooterscot
1st September 2017, 15:23
What high end manufacturing is the UK currently engaged with? Something that people and companies use like?

sasguru
1st September 2017, 15:25
Tariffs are an issue, we do still export stuff. The EU exports more stuff to us. Tariffs will affect both economies.

No shit Sherlock



Services are important to us, again a trade deal that will need to be struck to enable services to be sold. Again, both the EU and UK sell services to each other, we sell more to them.

No shit Sherlock



Try to discuss things and perhaps you will learn.

The irony will no doubt be lost on you. But you do come across as deeply thick.

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 15:26
What high end manufacturing is the UK currently engaged with? Something that people and companies use like?

The aqueduct?

Or try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_the_United_Kingdom

woohoo
1st September 2017, 15:28
What high end manufacturing is the UK currently engaged with? Something that people and companies use like?

Loads of stuff, google it. I worked at Pilkington Glass, their science and engineering departments are excellent. Though Pilkington where taken over by a much smaller company with a loan from the Japanese government - but don't take my word on that was just what people where saying there about the loan.

I read a survey a while back of engineers, we are quite a large exporter, I think in the top 10 of the world. Most engineers believed our products are bought around the world because of the quality despite the extra cost.

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 15:28
No shit Sherlock



No shit Sherlock



The irony will no doubt be lost on you. But you do come across as deeply thick.

I fear the cretinocalypse is upon us once more.

BlasterBates
1st September 2017, 15:32
EU chiefs demand UK cave in (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/848940/Brexit-news-Emmanuel-Macron-Rutte-demand-UK-EU-chiefs)

How long will they hold out?

It is clear that the UK will be completely humiliated and will hand over billions ad infinitum to the "corrupt" EU.

:D

sasguru
1st September 2017, 15:36
Loads of stuff, google it. I worked at Pilkington Glass, their science and engineering departments are excellent. Though Pilkington where taken over by a much smaller company with a loan from the Japanese government - but don't take my word on that was just what people where saying there about the loan.

I read a survey a while back of engineers, we are quite a large exporter, I think in the top 10 of the world. Most engineers believed our products are bought around the world because of the quality despite the extra cost.

I get the impression there are many unknown unknowns in your worldview.:laugh:laugh

woohoo
1st September 2017, 15:40
I get the impression there are many unknown unknowns in your worldview.:laugh:laugh

Well there is one thing I do know, you are little man with little power in your life. I was going to tear into you but then I felt sorry for you.

PM me, I will help you if I can. Perhaps you and Scoots can have a group meeting and talk about your insecurities. It would be nice for you to get outside away from your mum.

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 15:43
Well there is one thing I do know, you are little man with little power in your life. I was going to tear into you but then I felt sorry for you.

PM me, I will help you if I can. Perhaps you and Scoots can have a group meeting and talk about your insecurities. It would be nice for you to get outside away from your mum.

You need to drop the passive aggression, man. It will be eating you up on the inside. ;) Have a nice weekend.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 15:45
You need to drop the passive aggression, man. It will be eating you up on the inside. ;) Have a nice weekend.

You are right, I'm going to try some beer yoga! You have a good un :)

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 15:47
EU chiefs demand UK cave in (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/848940/Brexit-news-Emmanuel-Macron-Rutte-demand-UK-EU-chiefs)

How long will they hold out?

It is clear that the UK will be completely humiliated and will hand over billions ad infinitum to the "corrupt" EU.

:D

I predict the row of the summer.


Oh, it's 1st September.

Cirrus
1st September 2017, 18:32
The Brexiteers voted for some vague notion.

Two things are now happening.

1) forum members are asking probing questions of how that would work (ie how exactly do you have your cake and eat it?)
2) the merde is starting to hit the fan (GDP falling away from the EU trend, currency declining).

So what happens? The Brexiteers offer zero explanation of what they voted for or how anybody else could salvage anything from the ruins. But what they do do is resort to name calling and dissing anything anybody else says.

On here it's sad (as people have remarked) but of little consequence. On the World Stage it means most of our leaders are hiding ("don't look at me; I didn't start this) and those that are (somewhat unwillingly?) fronting up our shambles of a government are saying any old rubbish hoping everyone will blame the EU when it all blows up. They know there is no sensible way out of the mess.

OwlHoot
1st September 2017, 18:37
There seems to be life in this thread after all.

Bouncing a moribund Brexit thread to the top is trolling by proxy! :D

northernladyuk
1st September 2017, 18:40
The Brexiteers voted for some vague notion.

Two things are now happening.

1) forum members are asking probing questions of how that would work (ie how exactly do you have your cake and eat it?)
2) the merde is starting to hit the fan (GDP falling away from the EU trend, currency declining).

So what happens? The Brexiteers offer zero explanation of what they voted for or how anybody else could salvage anything from the ruins. But what they do do is resort to name calling and dissing anything anybody else says.

On here it's sad (as people have remarked) but of little consequence. On the World Stage it means most of our leaders are hiding ("don't look at me; I didn't start this) and those that are (somewhat unwillingly?) fronting up our shambles of a government are saying any old rubbish hoping everyone will blame the EU when it all blows up. They know there is no sensible way out of the mess.

The bullying behaviour of the EUSSR just goes to prove that the UK is better off outside.

SueEllen
1st September 2017, 19:13
The Brexiteers voted for some vague notion.

Two things are now happening.

1) forum members are asking probing questions of how that would work (ie how exactly do you have your cake and eat it?)
2) the merde is starting to hit the fan (GDP falling away from the EU trend, currency declining).

So what happens? The Brexiteers offer zero explanation of what they voted for or how anybody else could salvage anything from the ruins. But what they do do is resort to name calling and dissing anything anybody else says.

On here it's sad (as people have remarked) but of little consequence. On the World Stage it means most of our leaders are hiding ("don't look at me; I didn't start this) and those that are (somewhat unwillingly?) fronting up our shambles of a government are saying any old rubbish hoping everyone will blame the EU when it all blows up. They know there is no sensible way out of the mess.

The problem is all brexiteers voted for something different.

Some actually voted for what the cr*p UK governments from Bliar to Camoron could have enforced within the EU from the beginning of the century but decided not to fecking bother as that would be taking responsibility.

shaunbhoy
1st September 2017, 19:33
The "problem" is that all the Bremainers are trying to second guess why people voted Leave.

With as little understanding even now as they had last June.

:eyes

woohoo
1st September 2017, 20:03
The problem is all brexiteers voted for something different.

Some actually voted for what the cr*p UK governments from Bliar to Camoron could have enforced within the EU from the beginning of the century but decided not to fecking bother as that would be taking responsibility.

Not really, most of us understand we are right at the start of the negotiations. The eu is going to put out it's propaganda and so will the UK.
Little piss heads like you that wet themselves at the first sign of conflict should look away.

sasguru
1st September 2017, 20:30
The "problem" is that all the Bremainers are trying to second guess why people voted Leave.

With as little understanding even now as they had last June.

:eyes

There were many reasons why people voted Leave. But all of them involved being thick as mince :laugh:laugh:rollin:
And now you (and yours) will pay the price, which is right and proper.

sasguru
1st September 2017, 20:33
Not really, most of us understand we are right at the start of the negotiations. The eu is going to put out it's propaganda and so will the UK.
Little piss heads like you that wet themselves at the first sign of conflict should look away.

Yes the best result is worse than the current situation. Way to go. The more I think of this the more amazed I am that people are so thick. Maybe the Eugenics movement at the start of the last century was right after all.

DimPrawn
1st September 2017, 20:41
Yes the best result is worse than the current situation. Way to go. The more I think of this the more amazed I am that people are so thick. Maybe the Eugenics movement at the start of the last century was right after all.

:wave:

scooterscot
1st September 2017, 20:59
Politiknachrichten - Süddeutsche.de (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik)

I've been reading it here and there - can I find one article about Brexit? No. It's almost if it is a non-issue. Which is odd cause the Beeb is going nuclear on the topic.

woohoo
1st September 2017, 21:23
Yes the best result is worse than the current situation. Way to go. The more I think of this the more amazed I am that people are so thick. Maybe the Eugenics movement at the start of the last century was right after all.

Sassy sassy, ssssshhh now. Grown ups talking now.

SueEllen
2nd September 2017, 05:03
Yes the best result is worse than the current situation. Way to go. The more I think of this the more amazed I am that people are so thick. Maybe the Eugenics movement at the start of the last century was right after all.

Don't be silly. Certain countries trying Eugenics is part of the reason we are in this mess.

Anyway looks like De Gaulle was right to try and keep the UK out of the CM. He knew the UK was full of dimwits who like causing trouble and strife for the sake of it.

Cirrus
2nd September 2017, 06:29
I've been reading it here and there - can I find one article about Brexit? No. It's almost if it is a non-issue. This is a big problem. All our Brexiteers see this is a major negotiation. The EU wrestling with the UK team. A great contest.

In fact they accept we're leaving and are just waiting for us to pack up our belongings and load the van. So long, and good luck.

The Brexiteers are obsessed with this self delusion that we are really important to the EU. BMW might shed a tear but they are just a drop in the ocean. The EU has plenty of other fish to fry and doesn't really see it as its job to save the UK. This is a big problem with the current talks - cognitive dissonance.

woohoo
2nd September 2017, 06:48
This is a big problem. All our Brexiteers see this is a major negotiation. The EU wrestling with the UK team. A great contest.

In fact they accept we're leaving and are just waiting for us to pack up our belongings and load the van. So long, and good luck.

The Brexiteers are obsessed with this self delusion that we are really important to the EU. BMW might shed a tear but they are just a drop in the ocean. The EU has plenty of other fish to fry and doesn't really see it as its job to save the UK. This is a big problem with the current talks - cognitive dissonance.

Hah the level of self loathing is amazing. Your troll level is at Junker level.

Cirrus
2nd September 2017, 07:27
Hah the level of self loathing is amazing. I think you're missing the point, Woozie. It's not self loathing. I don't know how you twisted that out of what we've been saying.

It's not loathing.

It's just taking the piss out of Brexiteers as they cling on to their slowly evaporating delusions by their finger nails.

You could argue it's mean to laugh at people on a crashing train. But the fact is the board on Platform 1 said "06:00 to Crash", so don't expect a huge amount of sympathy.

woohoo
2nd September 2017, 09:19
The only thing of worth in your post is Woozie, I like it. Wonder if I can get the domain name. Thanks Cirrus

BlasterBates
2nd September 2017, 09:41
This is a big problem. All our Brexiteers see this is a major negotiation. The EU wrestling with the UK team. A great contest.

In fact they accept we're leaving and are just waiting for us to pack up our belongings and load the van. So long, and good luck.

The Brexiteers are obsessed with this self delusion that we are really important to the EU. BMW might shed a tear but they are just a drop in the ocean. The EU has plenty of other fish to fry and doesn't really see it as its job to save the UK. This is a big problem with the current talks - cognitive dissonance.

Absolutely.

The EU doesn't really want a deal (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/02/brexit-britain-deal-europe-clean-break-fractious-talks-brussels)

The only deal the UK will get is the humiliating one on the table which the current government won't be able to accept.

:D

woohoo
2nd September 2017, 09:46
Absolutely.

The EU doesn't really want a deal (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/02/brexit-britain-deal-europe-clean-break-fractious-talks-brussels)

The only deal the UK will get is the humiliating one on the table which the current government won't be able to accept.

:D

I would say you are at merkel level of trolling, still some way from junker level.

vetran
2nd September 2017, 09:59
Today I will use the red craayon"

FTFY

scooterscot
2nd September 2017, 10:03
Reading the papers this morning the national elections are of far greater priority. As is the deteriorating relationship with the US, or should I say with Trump. In fact the Trump effect is being blamed (or should I say congratulated) for the increase in the growing EU economy as Trump's USfA beings to look unstable and lacking in confidence and direction.

Something is being overlooked however... the UK really really (I say that twice cause it is really important) does need to thread carefully in the coming months... these coming months will define the UK economy for decades. If Merkel does not get back in Schulz (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/29/martin-schulz-profile-left-wing-europhile-wants-hardest-brexit/) will kick the UK out before they get a chance to leave. And I fear there may be a few silent Schulz voters out there not declaring their hand. Don't think May's government are giving this a second thought. Mind you reading about the current negotiation debacle I don't think theres been scope given for a 1st thought let alone a 2nd.


Berlin and beyond: Auf Wiedersehen Britain
(http://www.dw.com/en/berlin-and-beyond-auf-wiedersehen-britain/a-40330830)

TheGreenBastard
2nd September 2017, 12:46
Don't be silly. Certain countries trying Eugenics is part of the reason we are in this mess.

Anyway looks like De Gaulle was right to try and keep the UK out of the CM. He knew the UK was full of dimwits who like causing trouble and strife for the sake of it.

Looks like we were wrong to save him and his family then, should have sold him to the Nazis.

SueEllen
2nd September 2017, 13:47
Looks like we were wrong to save him and his family then, should have sold him to the Nazis.

Like the Polish?

Bee
2nd September 2017, 14:02
More of the same. :ohwell

TheGreenBastard
2nd September 2017, 14:57
Like the Polish?

What relevance is that, hag?

You equate a single cretin and his family to an entire nation? The British educational system failed you.

SueEllen
2nd September 2017, 15:20
What relevance is that, hag?

You equate a single cretin and his family to an entire nation? The British educational system failed you.

Well goat since we sold the Polish to the Nazis and the consequences weren't pleasant I was merely asking would it have been worth selling another of our Allies to them.

TheGreenBastard
2nd September 2017, 15:59
Well goat since we sold the Polish to the Nazis and the consequences weren't pleasant I was merely asking would it have been worth selling another of our Allies to them.

Wrench, define "we"? How far do you want to deviate the point?

Cirrus
2nd September 2017, 15:59
The only thing of worth in your post is Woozie, I like it. Wonder if I can get the domain name. Thanks CirrusIf ever you get the urge to say something with any kind of content, any kind of relevance to the substance of the thread you're inserting random, meaningless insults into, don't let us stop you...

:tumble:

shaunbhoy
2nd September 2017, 16:08
If ever you get the urge to say something with any kind of content, any kind of relevance to the substance of the thread you're inserting random, meaningless insults into, don't let us stop you...

:tumble:

As long as you take your head out of your @rse long enough to digest it.....sure thing!

:eyes

shaunbhoy
2nd September 2017, 16:10
we sold the Polish to the Nazis and the consequences weren't pleasant

It is difficult to imagine just what parallel universe you inhabit at times, it truly is.

For the record, we declared war upon the Nazis when they invaded Poland. Fook knows how you can equate that with us somehow "selling them out", but you have never been the brightest.
Even for you though, this is a new level of stupidity.

:eyes

TheGreenBastard
2nd September 2017, 16:14
It is difficult to imagine just what parallel universe you inhabit at times, it truly is.

For the record, we declared war upon the Nazis when they invaded Poland. Fook knows how you can equate that with us somehow "selling them out", but you have never been the brightest.
Even for you though, this is a new level of stupidity.

:eyes

Please... this is a fact absent forum, good Sir.

woohoo
2nd September 2017, 16:39
If ever you get the urge to say something with any kind of content, any kind of relevance to the substance of the thread you're inserting random, meaningless insults into, don't let us stop you...

:tumble:

Anything with content had already been said in one of the many brexit threads. Now I'm just trying to help the depressive posters on here. However, I would say the quality of your posts are lacking a bit. Keep trying.

Darren_Test
2nd September 2017, 20:37
David Davis is currently speaking in the US. He's speaking about the Empire...

A country which colonised & looted half the world is talking about its sovereignty & independence! what an irony?

TheGreenBastard
2nd September 2017, 21:24
A country which colonised & looted half the world is talking about its sovereignty & independence! what an irony?

Which country didn't? It's just that none were quite as successful...

woohoo
2nd September 2017, 21:59
A country which colonised & looted half the world is talking about its sovereignty & independence! what an irony?

Why does it matter, it's here an now and the future we are concerned about.

vetran
2nd September 2017, 22:36
Why does it matter, it's here an now and the future we are concerned about.

no no we should be punished for our sins its only fair....

Cirrus
3rd September 2017, 11:15
Anything with content had already been said in one of the many brexit threads. The reason we EUrinetakers keep posting is the situation is actually changing. It started off grim and now its getting slowly but steadily even worse.

And we delight in rubbing that in.

We're not depressed. We just see weakness and don't want you walking off, pretending your initial half-baked concept will somehow be alright in the end.

As I've said, taking advantage of you, Shaunboy etc, is somewhat easy pickings. But its only pub banter. We're just filling the time between rounds. But there's absolutely no incentive to back off when we're on a winning streak. All you have to do is confess you were wrong and we'll all move on to something different.

Just so you don't accuse me of pointless insults, my contention about why it's getting worse is:

1) the clock is ticking and no progress has been made
2) more and more influential groups are aligning with the no-Brexit (aka Stay in the Single Market/Customs Union etc) stance - including Labour
3) the EU show zero interest in what happens to us. The "They cannot do without us - they've got too much to lose" contingent are waiting for the Messiah to come. And just like last time it is starting to look like he won't be back for at least 2017 years.

Can you think of anything that suggests things are on track?

Darren_Test
3rd September 2017, 11:36
Initially I thought Mr. Boris is the biggest fool, but I was proved wrong by David Davis first now by Dr. Fox.

Not sure when these muppets wakeup to reality??

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 11:54
"Brexit Secretary David Davis said it was "frightened" and the UK would not be bounced into a divorce bill deal."

Imagine what the credit referring agencies will do when the UK defaults on it's EU debt obligations?

Everyone talks about the EU loosing ratings because the UK would not pay up. Quite the opposite. EU economy is growing in strength.

eek
3rd September 2017, 11:59
"Brexit Secretary David Davis said it was "frightened" and the UK would not be bounced into a divorce bill deal."

Imagine what the credit referring agencies will do when the UK defaults on it's EU debt obligations?

Everyone talks about the EU loosing ratings because the UK would not pay up. Quite the opposite. EU economy is growing in strength.

For the EU that's the problem - if there is no legal backing for the EU demands - there is no legal justification for it.

Equally all the credit agencies want is to know that the UK Government can and will repay the money owed to other banks. That isn't a problem as Government bonds are in £ and the Government can just print £...

Finally the EU economy is growing where you live. Head elsewhere and the picture isn't as rosy (personally Munich is a dump but hey each to their own)...

shaunbhoy
3rd September 2017, 12:08
But there's absolutely no incentive to back off when we're on a winning streak.

Referendum Results thus far........................Leavers 1 Bremoaners 0

:laugh



Can you think of anything that suggests things are on track?

There is no "track". We are in uncharted territory.
That is how it plays out when you are undergoing a process for the first time.
No Frills Intellects like yours crave everything being mapped out for you as you lack the wit and wisdom to dynamically plot a course when there are imponderables to negotiate.

That probably explains why you have never been placed in charge of anything more complex than the Office Coffee Fund.

Seriously though, you appear to be taking the concept of imbecility in a new and frankly quite disturbing direction.
Give up now while you are behind.

:rollin:

BlasterBates
3rd September 2017, 12:12
Every country in the EU growing faster than the UK (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league)

woohoo
3rd September 2017, 12:15
The reason we EUrinetakers keep posting is the situation is actually changing. It started off grim and now its getting slowly but steadily even worse.

And we delight in rubbing that in.

We're not depressed. We just see weakness and don't want you walking off, pretending your initial half-baked concept will somehow be alright in the end.

As I've said, taking advantage of you, Shaunboy etc, is somewhat easy pickings. But its only pub banter. We're just filling the time between rounds. But there's absolutely no incentive to back off when we're on a winning streak. All you have to do is confess you were wrong and we'll all move on to something different.

Just so you don't accuse me of pointless insults, my contention about why it's getting worse is:

1) the clock is ticking and no progress has been made
2) more and more influential groups are aligning with the no-Brexit (aka Stay in the Single Market/Customs Union etc) stance - including Labour
3) the EU show zero interest in what happens to us. The "They cannot do without us - they've got too much to lose" contingent are waiting for the Messiah to come. And just like last time it is starting to look like he won't be back for at least 2017 years.

Can you think of anything that suggests things are on track?

Strange post, you come across quite strange.

1. So what the clock is ticking.
2. Labour have changed their stance several times. They want to appeal to the widest possible group of voters, they see derailing the brexit negotiation as their chance to get into power. Really no desire to see brexit work. Pretty cynical if you ask me, promise the earth and enough people may be fooled by it.
3. The EU serves itself, not it's citizens. The EU may not want a deal but it's business does -so they can sell their goods to us at inflated prices with the protection of a trade deal.

We would be better out of the Custom Union and Single Market. If EU wants to add barriers to our goods/services, fine, it will only hurt them. It costs more for them to buy our goods, we can sell elsewhere. Same for services, make it difficult we can sell elsewhere. I see a trade deal as making things simple and making it as free as possible from barriers.

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 12:46
For the EU that's the problem - if there is no legal backing for the EU demands - there is no legal justification for it.

Equally all the credit agencies want is to know that the UK Government can and will repay the money owed to other banks. That isn't a problem as Government bonds are in £ and the Government can just print £...

Finally the EU economy is growing where you live. Head elsewhere and the picture isn't as rosy (personally Munich is a dump but hey each to their own)...

There you have it, if the UK is not legally obliged it'll not honour its debts. I'm sure that'll go down well.

Credit agencies don't care what the governments do, that don't want to know, they care about their fees and nothing else. Honestly people have you learned nothing from 2008? The financial is fraudulent and corrupt backed up by the taxpayer. The only way the world moves forward is trough mutual agreement.

The UK printing bonds is a massive problem for people living in the UK. You advertise it like it is a saviour and really is it the guillotine. The economy needs productivity to increase, not on-call jobs or whatever you call them.

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 12:49
It costs more for them to buy our goods, we can sell elsewhere.

What are you smoking? The UK has just reduced the cost of its exports by a 1/3 since last year :tongue

http://www.exchangerates.org.uk/images-news3/05102016-GBP-EUR.png

woohoo
3rd September 2017, 12:53
There you have it, if the UK is not legally obliged it'll not honour its debts. I'm sure that'll go down well.

Credit agencies don't care what the governments do, that don't want to know, they care about their fees and nothing else. Honestly people have you learned nothing from 2008? The financial is fraudulent and corrupt backed up by the taxpayer. The only way the world moves forward is trough mutual agreement.

The UK printing bonds is a massive problem for people living in the UK. You advertise it like it is a saviour and really is it the guillotine. The economy needs productivity to increase, not on-call jobs or whatever you call them.

The UK has said it will pay a divorce bill. It has no legal obligation in its opinion and has spelt this out to the EU. It's part of the negotiations but i imagine will we still pay into certain agencies.

I don't agree about moving forward with mutual agreement unless you mean we agree to be competitive with each other.

I do agree productivity does need to increase, being out of the EU should help with that.

woohoo
3rd September 2017, 12:59
What are you smoking? The UK has just reduced the cost of its exports by a 1/3 since last year :tongue

http://www.exchangerates.org.uk/images-news3/05102016-GBP-EUR.png

If you put tariffs on goods or increase the cost/complexity of providing services, then the consumer wishing to buy those services/goods has to pay more, it's simple economics. Sterling devaluing does mean it costs less to buy goods/services but I'm talking about the EU then putting barriers up on services or Tariffs onto goods to make them more expensive than goods from within the EU.

eek
3rd September 2017, 13:03
The UK has said it will pay a divorce bill. It has no legal obligation in its opinion and has spelt this out to the EU. It's part of the negotiations but i imagine will we still pay into certain agencies.

I don't agree about moving forward with mutual agreement unless you mean we agree to be competitive with each other.

I do agree productivity does need to increase, being out of the EU should help with that.

The inability to substitute investment with cheap European labour may mean companies start to invest in productivity...

BlasterBates
3rd September 2017, 13:04
It's all becoming hypothetical, everyone in parliament apart from fanatical Brexiteers now believe Brexit is a huge mess, and looks like that May will be ousted

Theresa May to be skewered by Tory MPs (http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/849459/Theresa-May-Tory-conservative-Brexit-Prime-Minister)

:D

vetran
3rd September 2017, 13:21
What are you smoking? The UK has just reduced the cost of its exports by a 1/3 since last year :tongue

http://www.exchangerates.org.uk/images-news3/05102016-GBP-EUR.png

So currency fluctuations have resulted in it being nearly the same as in Jun 2011? Well before the referendum and EUgeddon started, lets forget every man & his dog is playing GBP down.

I must rush out and build the bunker in the back yard I'm sending Mrs V to buy baked beans!

:facepalm:

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 13:31
The UK has said it will pay a divorce bill. It has no legal obligation in its opinion and has spelt this out to the EU. It's part of the negotiations but i imagine will we still pay into certain agencies.


Imagine courting trade deals with the rest of the world after ripping up a free trade deal with the largest trading block in the world after defaulting on the bill. Not a great advertisement is it? Of course the UK will pay and for this reason. The UK is in a very weak position here.



I don't agree about moving forward with mutual agreement unless you mean we agree to be competitive with each other.


The world economy works because we agree to trade this for that. Not because we out smart the partner. We simply must trade with some EU countries just because our climate does not allow for the same produce back home, for example.



I do agree productivity does need to increase, being out of the EU should help with that.

Why? Productively is nothing to do with worker volume, if that's what you're getting at.

northernladyuk
3rd September 2017, 14:11
So currency fluctuations have resulted in it being nearly the same as in Jun 2011? Well before the referendum and EUgeddon started, lets forget every man & his dog is playing GBP down.

I must rush out and build the bunker in the back yard I'm sending Mrs V to buy baked beans!

:facepalm:

Baked beans and bunkers make for unhappy bedfellows.

woohoo
3rd September 2017, 14:34
Imagine courting trade deals with the rest of the world after ripping up a free trade deal with the largest trading block in the world after defaulting on the bill. Not a great advertisement is it? Of course the UK will pay and for this reason. The UK is in a very weak position here.



The world economy works because we agree to trade this for that. Not because we out smart the partner. We simply must trade with some EU countries just because our climate does not allow for the same produce back home, for example.



Why? Productively is nothing to do with worker volume, if that's what you're getting at.

Productivity increases with competition.
Noncompetitive industries that are protected by trade barriers like those found in the custom union don't have to be competitive to survive. Outside of the custom union they do have to be competitive.

The rest of your post is nonsense.

woohoo
3rd September 2017, 14:41
Baked beans and bunkers make for unhappy bedfellows.

I like the smell of my own farts.

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 14:48
Productivity increases with competition...

Tell that to users of the rail network! :D

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 14:48
I like the smell of my own farts.

Then you should spend more time in a spacesuit.

BlasterBates
3rd September 2017, 14:53
Productivity increases with competition.
Noncompetitive industries that are protected by trade barriers like those found in the custom union don't have to be competitive to survive. Outside of the custom union they do have to be competitive.

The rest of your post is nonsense.

British companies will be competing at a disadvantage when exporting to the EU. So all the European companies will survive at the expense of British companies.

As Professor Minford says who is a Brexiteer. After Brexit there won't be much left of British manufacturing.

woohoo
3rd September 2017, 16:24
Tell that to users of the rail network! :D

hah, that's true. But then there is an argument from some that it's impossible to have a private competitive rail network and for it to work well. It needs to be state funded (as an investment) to enable other business to thrive. I think there is some truth in this but my knowledge of railway is limited to a few articles and tv progs.

eek
3rd September 2017, 16:27
Imagine courting trade deals with the rest of the world after ripping up a free trade deal with the largest trading block in the world after defaulting on the bill. Not a great advertisement is it? Of course the UK will pay and for this reason. The UK is in a very weak position here.



The world economy works because we agree to trade this for that. Not because we out smart the partner. We simply must trade with some EU countries just because our climate does not allow for the same produce back home, for example.



Why? Productively is nothing to do with worker volume, if that's what you're getting at.

Productivity has everything to do with worker volume, to compete you can use cheap labour and keep your existing systems going or invest so productivity increases allowing staff numbers to be reduced with the remaining staff paid more..

woohoo
3rd September 2017, 16:32
British companies will be competing at a disadvantage when exporting to the EU. So all the European companies will survive at the expense of British companies.

As Professor Minford says who is a Brexiteer. After Brexit there won't be much left of British manufacturing.

Yep but if I've understood Pro Minford the people paying for this, the consumer (business and individuals) are subsidizing goods, so we pay a tax to enable company A to sell its products. We pay a tax because we stop company b in the US for example selling us the same product cheaper.

The idea if business is to thrive it needs to be dynamic more productive. If it can't survive in the outside world then it dies off.

I agree this is pretty shit if you find you are out of a job but the idea is that industry and services that we excel at will thrive and those inefficient industries get better more productive. As a contractor I'm used to finding my own work and depending on myself but I agree others will struggle.

But this happens all over the place, years ago I took redundancy because the industry I was in was overtaken by offerings on the internet. The industry adapted and I moved on to bigger better things.

woohoo
3rd September 2017, 16:33
Then you should spend more time in a spacesuit.

I find a warm shower works just as well for radiating the smell.

original PM
3rd September 2017, 18:16
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/03/sir-keir-starmer-threatens-block-theresa-mays-brexit-bill-unless/

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 18:25
Productivity has everything to do with worker volume, to compete you can use cheap labour and keep your existing systems going or invest so productivity increases allowing staff numbers to be reduced with the remaining staff paid more..

I can't argue with this level of stupid.

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 18:26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9gowrhfT0c

eek
3rd September 2017, 18:40
I can't argue with this level of stupid.

What part of the UK used cheap labour from Eastern Europe to keep the existing factory going while Germany invested in productivity can you not quite grasp...

Britain is full of zombie companies who should have been destroyed in the last recession but zero rate interest rates have kept them going...

shaunbhoy
3rd September 2017, 18:41
What part of the UK used cheap labour from Eastern Europe to keep the existing factory going while Germany invested in productivity can you not quite grasp...



Pretty much all of it. But that is because he is blessed with a head that is emptier than a Hermit's Address Book.

:laugh

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 19:14
What part of the UK used cheap labour from Eastern Europe to keep the existing factory going while Germany invested in productivity can you not quite grasp...

Yes yes - it's the fault of immigrants and refugees - we're not in the slightest bit responsible. Bugger me sideways.


Just to entertain your point for a nano second. Ouch ouch my brain... assuming all that *cheap* EU labour then why do so many UK PLc's export their jobs to non-EU India call centres and Chinese manufacturers? Are we to have a Worldexit to solve this problem?

It has nothing to do with the EU.

eek
3rd September 2017, 19:45
Yes yes - it's the fault of immigrants and refugees - we're not in the slightest bit responsible. Bugger me sideways.


Just to entertain your point for a nano second. Ouch ouch my brain... assuming all that *cheap* EU labour then why do so many UK PLc's export their jobs to non-EU India call centres and Chinese manufacturers? Are we to have a Worldexit to solve this problem?

It has nothing to do with the EU.

:rollin: - you really need to re-read what you've just written. Do you really not understand the different ways in how UK (anything for a short term profit) and German (look to the longer term) companies work...

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 20:33
:rollin: - you really need to re-read what you've just written. Do you really not understand the different ways in how UK (anything for a short term profit) and German (look to the longer term) companies work...

And to debunk your point, so easily might I add, those German forward looking companies employ many EU Eastern European workers - in fact I know they do, I work with them.

The difference being those companies are owned be people who living in the country.

chopper
3rd September 2017, 20:34
Imagine what the credit referring agencies will do when the UK defaults on it's EU debt obligations?

Which legally binding EU debt obligations are those?

We're not talking here about our EU 'fees' which of course we pay as a member, but we're talking about demands for the EU for money from us to keep their institutions afloat in the period once the UK has left the EU, of which their is no binding obligation. If we went hard brexit without any deal, then that would also mean there would be no agreement on a 'divorce bill' and therefore nothing to default on. And this would be full-fat WTO rules for all trade between the UK and the EU.

If, as part of an exit deal, the UK and the EU agree on the UK making a payment to the EU, then this is a different matter and of course the UK would not renege on this.

The stupid thing is that if the UK joined EFTA and then retained EEA membership, then the UK would have a strong hand. There could be no deal with the EU, but we'd still be in the EEA. Happy days. That the government isn't (publicly, at least) actively pursuing this option is what is giving the EU the strong hand.

eek
3rd September 2017, 20:37
And to debunk your point, so easily might I add, those German forward looking companies employ many EU Eastern European workers - in fact I know they do, I work with them.

The difference being those companies are owned be people who living in the country.

The difference is that the Eastern Europeans I meet in Austria / Germany are highly skilled, well paid workers. Those in the UK are cheap labour replacing cheap english labour..

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 20:41
Which legally binding EU debt obligations are those?

We're not talking here about our EU 'fees' which of course we pay as a member, but we're talking about demands for the EU for money from us to keep their institutions afloat in the period once the UK has left the EU, of which their is no binding obligation.

Unable to read the remaining sentences when you fall false on your first.

We're been asked to pay for projects (not institutions) which began years ago. You can't just stop the progress of 27 nations because one throws its toys our the pram.

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 20:43
The difference is that the Eastern Europeans I meet in Austria / Germany are highly skilled, well paid workers. Those in the UK are cheap labour replacing cheap english labour..

There's no such thing as cheap English labour.

Can't arsed benefit scroungers, well yes, tons of them. Leaving the EU will teach them. Er I don't think so.

chopper
3rd September 2017, 20:48
Unable to read the remaining sentences when you fall false on your first.

We're been asked to pay for projects (not institutions) which began years ago. You can't just stop the progress of 27 nations because one throws its toys our the pram.

I agree with you, actually.

It is somewhat astonishing that the EU is unable to account for the value of these projects. Surely these projects are all knowns, and the budgets agreed at the beginning are all known, and the portion of the UK's contribution to these should all be known. Right? (Of course not, this is the EU, using the credit card the UK left behind the bar).

The vacuum left by the EU being unable to name its price opened the door to rediculous estimates, such as £100bn, which gave the ultra-brexiters an even bigger voice.

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 20:55
I agree with you, actually.

It is somewhat astonishing that the EU is unable to account for the value of these projects. Surely these projects are all knowns, and the budgets agreed at the beginning are all known, and the portion of the UK's contribution to these should all be known. Right? (Of course not, this is the EU, using the credit card the UK left behind the bar).

The vacuum left by the EU being unable to name its price opened the door to rediculous estimates, such as £100bn, which gave the ultra-brexiters an even bigger voice.

Don't disagree but I'm sure that's not the reason why people voted to leave. In fact more people don't actually know why the voted to leave. Well it's the Germans isn't it? Every since the war, they'll say blah blah

eek
3rd September 2017, 21:11
Don't disagree but I'm sure that's not the reason why people voted to leave. In fact more people don't actually know why the voted to leave. Well it's the Germans isn't it? Every since the war, they'll say blah blah

Turks, the mess Germany made of allowing 1.5m immigrants in within weeks (find an Austrian and ask them) and Immigrants stealing low paying jobs would be a lot of the reasons, more money to the NHS is probably another..

Watching the council estate in Leyland vote for the first time ever (by 9:30am more people had voted than in the last general election) due to all 37 jobs at the nearly opened Aldi next door going to Eastern Europeans told me which way to bet that evening.

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 21:49
Turks, the mess Germany made of allowing 1.5m immigrants in within weeks

The did not allow them in. They opened their arms to other humans fleeing hell. A hell that we had a hand in starting.

Becoming a little offended by the lack of humanity these days. Especially so when the banks screwed up in 2008, peoples hatred towards the establishment grew, along came the referendum, people voted against the establishment. They certainly did not vote for Brexit even if that was the result, which many were surprised. We all full well know, it was a vote against the establishment. And who gets the blame? The poor the helpless. Fecken sickening.

scooterscot
3rd September 2017, 21:53
hah, that's true. But then there is an argument from some that it's impossible to have a private competitive rail network and for it to work well. It needs to be state funded (as an investment) to enable other business to thrive. I think there is some truth in this but my knowledge of railway is limited to a few articles and tv progs.

UK railway companies receive more state funding than when the railways were state run. True.

eek
4th September 2017, 06:18
The did not allow them in. They opened their arms to other humans fleeing hell. A hell that we had a hand in starting.

Becoming a little offended by the lack of humanity these days. Especially so when the banks screwed up in 2008, peoples hatred towards the establishment grew, along came the referendum, people voted against the establishment. They certainly did not vote for Brexit even if that was the result, which many were surprised. We all full well know, it was a vote against the establishment. And who gets the blame? The poor the helpless. Fecken sickening.

No you asked why people voted the way they did - I just gave you the answer - then you attack me on the basis of how I told you others voted.

Also you may want to go out and about more - granted all I've mainly heard when hearing about it is the biased responses from people on the route many "refugees" took but given they walked through multiple safe countries to get to Germany they really don't meet the UN's definition of refugees...

eek
4th September 2017, 06:23
UK railway companies receive more state funding than when the railways were state run. True.

subsidies per journey are down from £3.26 per journey to £1.86 per journey. And our level of subsidies is lower than any other country in europe €2 instead of the €9 or so per journey in Germany, France, Italy and Spain..

chopper
4th September 2017, 07:19
Also you may want to go out and about more - granted all I've mainly heard when hearing about it is the biased responses from people on the route many "refugees" took but given they walked through multiple safe countries to get to Germany they really don't meet the UN's definition of refugees...
But one day, the countries of the EU will merge into a single country, thus meaning refugees wouldn't be walking through multiple safe countries.

northernladyuk
4th September 2017, 07:37
No you asked why people voted the way they did - I just gave you the answer - then you attack me on the basis of how I told you others voted.

Also you may want to go out and about more - granted all I've mainly heard when hearing about it is the biased responses from people on the route many "refugees" took but given they walked through multiple safe countries to get to Germany they really don't meet the UN's definition of refugees...

How so?


A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group.

eek
4th September 2017, 07:45
How so?

Because a refugee is only a refugee until they arrive at a safe country... How are you a refugee once you are safe?

northernladyuk
4th September 2017, 07:52
Because a refugee is only a refugee until they arrive at a safe country... How are you a refugee once you are safe?

No, people continue to be refugees when they reach a safe country. See below:

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group.

eek
4th September 2017, 07:56
No, people continue to be refugees when they reach a safe country. See below:

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group.

Take as an example Austria - once you are in Austria you aren't fleeing it for fear of persecution, war or violence. You are fleeing it because Germany offers migrants more money.... Your journey into Germany from Austria is economic no more no less...

northernladyuk
4th September 2017, 08:00
Take as an example Austria - once you are in Austria you aren't fleeing it for fear of persecution, war or violence. You are fleeing it because Germany offers migrants more money.... Your journey into Germany from Austria is economic no more no less...

Agree. But you are still a refugee from your country of origin. The UN would define you as such, whereas you stated it wouldn't.

scooterscot
4th September 2017, 08:22
No, people continue to be refugees when they reach a safe country.[/I]

And I would not call Turkey exactly safe. Place is mad as a box of frogs.

scooterscot
4th September 2017, 08:29
Take as an example Austria - once you are in Austria you aren't fleeing it for fear of persecution, war or violence. You are fleeing it because Germany offers migrants more money.... Your journey into Germany from Austria is economic no more no less...

Have you been to Austria? How are 1.5 million going to be accommodated for without the assistance of member states?

Also I've had the chance to meet a number of refugees. Particularly those from Syria. I tulip you not, people like you and me. Back home people have this impression of religious fundamentalists cause that's all the daily mail knows. Usually from North Africa, which the refugee program was not part by the way buy MSM have decided it was, anyway.. I've met a few from Syria now first hand, people who had homes like you and me, not short of money, well educated. I've no doubt Germany received the cream of the crop - but that's no reason to cast aside our humanity.

northernladyuk
4th September 2017, 08:53
Have you been to Austria? How are 1.5 million going to be accommodated for without the assistance of member states?

Also I've had the chance to meet a number of refugees. Particularly those from Syria. I tulip you not, people like you and me. Back home people have this impression of religious fundamentalists cause that's all the daily mail knows. Usually from North Africa, which the refugee program was not part by the way buy MSM have decided it was, anyway.. I've met a few from Syria now first hand, people who had homes like you and me, not short of money, well educated. I've no doubt Germany received the cream of the crop - but that's no reason to cast aside our humanity.

It is always interesting talking to refugees. I've never met a Syrian refugee, but I've been acquainted in different wayswith five refugees I can recall:

One of my university lecturers arrived in the UK as a German Jewish refugee in the 1930's and stayed on in the UK to forge a successful academic career.
A friend was ethnically cleansed from Bosnia (but didn't arrive in the UK as a refugee) and is forging a successful academic career.
I was more vaguely acquainted with three Iranian refugees, one a convert to Christianity (an accountant) and the other two gay men (and very obviously camp - and both hairdressers). I don't know what happened to them but they expected to be deported back fto Iran after the Home Office rejected their claims.


All good hard-working people, who don't fit with the portrayal by the Mail et al.


Little reminder of the Mail's form:

http://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/16908209_1789912827996979_5079144413473538048_n.jp g?ig_cache_key=MTQ1NzU2NzA2MDYwMjYxMjg4Mw%3D%3D.2

eek
4th September 2017, 09:01
It is always interesting talking to refugees. I've never met a Syrian refugee, but I've been acquainted in different wayswith five refugees I can recall:

One of my university lecturers arrived in the UK as a German Jewish refugee in the 1930's and stayed on in the UK to forge a successful academic career.
A friend was ethnically cleansed from Bosnia (but didn't arrive in the UK as a refugee) and is forging a successful academic career.
I was more vaguely acquainted with three Iranian refugees, one a convert to Christianity (an accountant) and the other two gay men (and very obviously camp - and both hairdressers). I don't know what happened to them but they expected to be deported back fto Iran after the Home Office rejected their claims.


All good hard-working people, who don't fit with the portrayal by the Mail et al.


Little reminder of the Mail's form:

http://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/16908209_1789912827996979_5079144413473538048_n.jp g?ig_cache_key=MTQ1NzU2NzA2MDYwMjYxMjg4Mw%3D%3D.2

The issue is that we meet those migrants who eventually hit our social circles - i.e. those with similar skill sets to us who quickly find work. - I suspect they are the exception to the rule...

As to have you ever been to Austria? Well 3 years ago when visiting a client where its easier to fly to Ljubljana I didn't have to show my passport at the Austrian border, now I do.... Equally in the journey to their head office we need passports / ID cards in case we end up in the unbranded cars...

northernladyuk
4th September 2017, 09:05
The issue is that we meet those migrants who eventually hit our social circles - i.e. those with similar skill sets to us who quickly find work. - I suspect they are the exception to the rule...

As to have you ever been to Austria? Well 3 years ago when visiting a client where its easier to fly to Ljubljana I didn't have to show my passport at the Austrian border, now I do.... Equally in the journey to their head office we need passports / ID cards in case we end up in the unbranded cars...

The three Iranians I knew were not allowed to work.

Anyway, have we agreed that the people who went from Austria to Germany really are refugees, according to UN definitions?

SueEllen
4th September 2017, 09:06
The issue is that we meet those migrants who eventually hit our social circles - i.e. those with similar skill sets to us who quickly find work. - I suspect they are the exception to the rule...


You mean like cleaners, shop assistants, refuse and recycling collectors, flight attendants etc as well as builders, bankers and IT workers.

Every where you go you can strike up conversations with people even in big cities.

northernladyuk
4th September 2017, 09:10
You mean like cleaners, shop assistants, refuse and recycling collectors, flight attendants etc as well as builders, bankers and IT workers.

Every where you go you can strike up conversations with people even in big cities.

Cleaners are always worth talking to for their back stories.

Lance
4th September 2017, 09:59
Cleaners are always worth talking to for their back stories.

only on their time though