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abc111
2nd October 2016, 18:15
hi
i am a limited company and trying to find out ways to save the tax and maximise the take -home payment. Please would users suggest how to achieve it. my chartered accountant is cheap but somewhat useless.
I would like to included items such as :
car
home
electrical fixtures and services installation
laptop and printer
diesel/ fuel

please suggest
thanks.

northernladuk
2nd October 2016, 18:25
You read the newbies guide to the right and if you have any questions you use the search function in the welcome forums.

You also get yourself a good contractor accountant that uses FreeAgent. There is a stickied thread with accountant recommendations.

This is something you'll have to do. There is far too much for us to cover for you and we don't need to. Plenty of documentation for you to digest and your accountant to speak to.

Oh and google is your friend.

scooterscot
2nd October 2016, 20:35
Your options are very simple. They are life style choices really.

a) As a very simple rule to saving tax using a Ltd: take out as little cash as is possible from the company. Wind it up n years later and enjoy the windfall.

b) Personally I'd rather live whilst I'm earning. That means paying tax. You could withdraw to the upper limit using a combination of dividends + minimum salary.

greenlake
2nd October 2016, 21:38
my chartered accountant is cheap but somewhat useless.

http://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAQCAAAAJGRiZmIwMjkzLTNiMjUtNDFiZS1hNz Y4LTY3NWRjNTlmMzUyMQ.jpg

VectraMan
3rd October 2016, 08:28
hi
i am a limited company and trying to find out ways to save the tax and maximise the take -home payment. Please would users suggest how to achieve it. my chartered accountant is cheap but somewhat useless.
I would like to included items such as :
car
home
electrical fixtures and services installation
laptop and printer
diesel/ fuel

please suggest
thanks.

How about:
holidays
clothes
food
school fees
TV
entertainment
beer
gifts

kaiser78
3rd October 2016, 08:48
hi
i am a limited company and trying to find out ways to save the tax and maximise the take -home payment. Please would users suggest how to achieve it. my chartered accountant is cheap but somewhat useless.
I would like to included items such as :
car
home
electrical fixtures and services installation
laptop and printer
diesel/ fuel

please suggest
thanks.

I would (seriously) suggest above anything else find a new chartered accountant.

DiscoStu
3rd October 2016, 12:12
Just put anything you like through, as long as you've got receipts it'll be fine :eyes

SlipTheJab
3rd October 2016, 12:24
Also make any relatives/friends/strangers/lovers directors of your Ltd if they don't work. You can then use their tax allowance to take all that lurvley loot out tax free, give them 2% for their trouble, it's a win win situation :D

OwlHoot
3rd October 2016, 12:26
How about:
holidays
clothes
food
school fees
TV
entertainment
beer
gifts

All very sound suggestions - Keep those ideas coming ..

How about lottery tickets? :D

chopper
3rd October 2016, 12:31
hi
i am a limited company and trying to find out ways to save the tax and maximise the take -home payment. Please would users suggest how to achieve it. my chartered accountant is cheap but somewhat useless.
I would like to included items such as :
car
home
electrical fixtures and services installation
laptop and printer
diesel/ fuel

please suggest
thanks.
Generally speaking, if your company pays for things which are not wholly and exclusively for the business of that company, you will be taxed on the benefit-in-kind - so full whack tax and Class 1A NICs. Can be inefficient.

Company cars are *usually* less efficient than just paying for them yourself, as the BIK tax will be high. You can get 45p/mile tax free if using your own car. Unless you do millions of miles, or something. If your company pays for private fuel, HMRC will come and bugger you silly, and you'll pay more tax on the Car Fuel BIK.

If the laptop/printer are genuinely for business, then you can put it through.

You can have £4/week tax free for using your home as an office. Electrical fixtures and services - not a chance. Or rather, two chances - fat and slim.

chopper
3rd October 2016, 12:34
Nearly forgot, there are some wonderful schemes out there which let you keep 90% of your billable earnings, most contractors are daft enough to not bother with them.

You should use one of these wonderful schemes. Search google for "it contractors 90% take home" and let the money flow in*.


* Ensure you buy some lube with your extra cash.

missinggreenfields
3rd October 2016, 13:14
How about lottery tickets? :D

Absolutely - they count as an investment

northernladuk
3rd October 2016, 13:24
Don't forget about the hookers and coke habit.

abc111
10th September 2017, 12:36
Hi
i am limited company and on flat rate scheme 20% and pay around 20% for corporation tax. how to save paying less in terms of VAT and corporation tax...how to run the accounts?

thanks.

SueEllen
10th September 2017, 12:38
Ask your accountant.

That's what they are there for.

Oh and you are not a limited company. You are a director of one as the company is a separate legal entity from yourself.

barrydidit
10th September 2017, 12:47
Not much has changed since you last asked (http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/117234-limited-company-contracting.html#post2316227).

chopper
10th September 2017, 13:32
Hi
i am limited company and on flat rate scheme 20%

I hope you're not using 20% as your FRS rate. If you're a contractor then you'll be using the 13.5% FRS rate. If you have much in the way of expenses (and expenses are the only way to reduce your CT and VAT bills) then you're best on standard VAT, not Flat Rate VAT.


and pay around 20% for corporation tax.
I can save you 1% right there. Use 19% as your CT rate.


how to save paying less in terms of VAT and corporation tax...how to run the accounts?
May it isn't your VAT and CT bills that are the problem, but maybe you are spending beyond your means?

There is no way to save money on VAT without outright fraud. Sorry. You collect VAT on HMRC's behalf, and you add 20% to your invoices to cover this. You don't get to keep this money.

Legitimate business expenses will help reduce your CT bill, i.e. expenses that your business legitimately incurs.

Being a contractor is already a more efficient way in terms of tax. Anything else saved will become tax evasion.

greenlake
10th September 2017, 14:19
how to save paying less in terms of VAT and corporation tax...how to run the accounts?

http://assets.amuniversal.com/276bc1d06cbb01301d46001dd8b71c47

jamesbrown
10th September 2017, 14:26
Hi
i am limited company and on flat rate scheme 20% and pay around 20% for corporation tax. how to save paying less in terms of VAT and corporation tax...how to run the accounts?

thanks.

Seek divine intervention.

zeitghost
10th September 2017, 14:41
Not much has changed since you last asked (http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/117234-limited-company-contracting.html#post2316227).

And he/she/it is still a limited company 11 months later.

How curious.

barrydidit
10th September 2017, 14:45
And he/she/it is still a limited company 11 months later.

How curious.

The forthcoming anniversary might well have concentrated a little mind on the conundrum of paying their dues.

greenlake
10th September 2017, 14:46
Seek divine intervention.

http://i.imgur.com/pT93ceT.jpg

abc111
10th September 2017, 15:17
Seek divine intervention.
does not help the discussion -does it?

abc111
10th September 2017, 15:18
And he/she/it is still a limited company 11 months later.

How curious.

..other priorities perhaps...!!

stek
10th September 2017, 15:43
Come to Ireland, CT is 13%.

No dividends tho....

SueEllen
10th September 2017, 15:48
does not help the discussion -does it?

Some people find praying helps them feel better....

BR14
10th September 2017, 16:29
Some people find praying helps them feel better....

or calling international rescue.....................be just as efficacious IMHO

greenlake
10th September 2017, 16:36
or calling international rescue.....................be just as efficacious IMHO

....especially when the low-budget version of Thunderbird 2 arrives on your doorstep....

http://i.imgur.com/FK2qwre.jpg

jamesbrown
10th September 2017, 16:43
does not help the discussion -does it?

There's a discussion?

cojak
10th September 2017, 16:54
I'm not inclined to move this thread.

zeitghost
10th September 2017, 17:19
I'm not inclined to move this thread.

I thought it had been moved. :rollin:

ladymuck
10th September 2017, 18:10
I hope you're not using 20% as your FRS rate. If you're a contractor then you'll be using the 13.5% FRS rate. If you have much in the way of expenses (and expenses are the only way to reduce your CT and VAT bills) then you're best on standard VAT, not Flat Rate VAT.

16.5% from April 2017 - I suspect the OP doesn't do a lot of buying products for resale.

If you really, really want to not pay any VAT or CT then...

1. De-register from VAT. By not charging VAT, you don't have to pay any over to HMRC.
2. Run YourCo at a loss. By not making a profit, you won't have to any any CT over to HMRC.

1. is only possible if your turnover is low. 2. means you have to extract funds by PAYE as you have to have sufficient funds in your reserves or else any dividends will be illegal.

HTH

Platypus
11th September 2017, 11:00
Come to Ireland, CT is 13%.

No that can't be right. If the UK were to lower its Corp Tax rate it would become some sort of dirty tax haven for crooks and millionaires. It would also be "unfair". I know this because a Remainer told me. It seemed such an awful prospect, I can't believe that anywhere in the EU has a Corp Tax rate lower than 19%.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/22/tax-haven-theresa-may-bad-news-britain-brexit

fullyautomatix
11th September 2017, 11:20
I think the first year of trading you get a discount in VAT but with all the recent changes, there are no VAT savings to be had. In any case, it was never a means to make some money.

With regards to Corp tax, if you show a loss, you wont have to pay any. It is upto you to determine how to make a loss on your business. Very likely you will be investigated, only the mega corporates like Google and Starbucks are allowed to indulge in that kind of dodgy accounting.

abc111
11th September 2017, 14:46
16.5% from April 2017 - I suspect the OP doesn't do a lot of buying products for resale.

If you really, really want to not pay any VAT or CT then...

1. De-register from VAT. By not charging VAT, you don't have to pay any over to HMRC.
2. Run YourCo at a loss. By not making a profit, you won't have to any any CT over to HMRC.

1. is only possible if your turnover is low. 2. means you have to extract funds by PAYE as you have to have sufficient funds in your reserves or else any dividends will be illegal.

HTH

thanks i am just an engineer working for a company on ltd company basis...
i generally skip quite a few expenses as keep a record is a mammoth task for me...i take it expenses should save me both VAT and CT...


question: does client submit record and details of their payees to HMRC who they pay HMRC and how much they have paid...!! thanks..

PhiltheGreek
11th September 2017, 14:53
thanks i am just an engineer working for a company on ltd company basis...
i generally skip quite a few expenses as keep a record is a mammoth task for me...i take it expenses should save me both VAT and CT...

What does your board of directors say?

SueEllen
11th September 2017, 15:08
thanks i am just an engineer working for a company on ltd company basis...
i generally skip quite a few expenses as keep a record is a mammoth task for me...i take it expenses should save me both VAT and CT...


question: does client submit record and details of their payees to HMRC who they pay HMRC and how much they have paid...!! thanks..

Oh dear...

Go back to permanent employment if you can't be bothered to keep records.

abc111
11th September 2017, 15:14
What does your board of directors say?

sole director -me.

question: does client submit record and details of their payees to HMRC who they pay HMRC and how much they have paid...!! thanks..

TheFaQQer
11th September 2017, 15:17
question: does client submit record and details of their payees to HMRC who they pay HMRC and how much they have paid...!! thanks..

No. An agency would though.

PhiltheGreek
11th September 2017, 15:19
sole director -me.

I thought you might say that. You are comprehensively f*cked.


question: does client submit record and details of their payees to HMRC who they pay HMRC and how much they have paid...!! thanks..

They just send your staff pass picture to make sure HMRC know who the record is for.

abc111
11th September 2017, 16:12
No. An agency would though.
which agency ...its me, client and my chartered accountant...

TheFaQQer
11th September 2017, 16:17
which agency ...its me, client and my chartered accountant...

If you don't use an agency, then there is no agency to report the data :confused:

mattfx
11th September 2017, 16:31
which agency ...its me, client and my chartered accountant...

Your "chartered accountant" should be giving you the advice here, not CUK.

Reduce your CT bill by filing your expenses when working away from home (this is every day if your home is your office and you need to attend site as part of your contractual obligations). Fuel / Train travel, Subsistence all counts. If you can claim travel, you can claim subsistence in most cases. Check the 24 month rule if it's relevant to you.

When you invoice a customer they have to pay you - this means they have a record of that payment. If they were investigated by HMRC they would then see this. If you were also investigated at the same time, they could look at the two businesses jointly.

abc111
11th September 2017, 17:14
Your "chartered accountant" should be giving you the advice here, not CUK.

Reduce your CT bill by filing your expenses when working away from home (this is every day if your home is your office and you need to attend site as part of your contractual obligations). Fuel / Train travel, Subsistence all counts. If you can claim travel, you can claim subsistence in most cases. Check the 24 month rule if it's relevant to you.

When you invoice a customer they have to pay you - this means they have a record of that payment. If they were investigated by HMRC they would then see this. If you were also investigated at the same time, they could look at the two businesses jointly.

many thanks.
i have my wife as secretary/ director -i added her for taking out more salary on least salary (no NI basis), she is non technical how and what can i claim on behalf of her...!! telling from experience...

zeitghost
11th September 2017, 17:23
i generally skip quite a few expenses as keep a record is a mammoth task for me...i take it expenses should save me both VAT and CT...


Indeed. It takes hours & hours to keep receipts and enter them on a spreadsheet.

Quite enervating really.


Oh dear...

Go back to permanent employment if you can't be bothered to keep records.

This has got to be a sockie, there's no other reasonable explanation.:eyes

abc111
11th September 2017, 19:00
Indeed. It takes hours & hours to keep receipts and enter them on a spreadsheet.


what i can or cannot consider as useful expenses...i work from home..

kaiser78
11th September 2017, 19:47
Indeed. It takes hours & hours to keep receipts and enter them on a spreadsheet.

Quite enervating really.



This has got to be a sockie, there's no other reasonable explanation.:eyes

Isn't this the reason why one has their spouse as a co-director in their limited company set up ? Nothing to do with income shifting of course.

barrydidit
11th September 2017, 20:11
what i can or cannot consider as useful expenses...i work from home..

Have you thought about renting some goldfish? It worked wonders for Peter Ridsdale.

SueEllen
11th September 2017, 20:15
what i can or cannot consider as useful expenses...i work from home..

Ask your accountant.

abc111
11th September 2017, 20:40
Ask your accountant.

he's a straight arrow wouldn't give me the answers i am looking for : )

ladymuck
11th September 2017, 20:58
he's a straight arrow wouldn't give me the answers i am looking for : )

Because the answers you are looking for are called tax evasion, which is illegal.

chopper
11th September 2017, 21:49
what i can or cannot consider as useful expenses...i work from home..

£4 a week 'Use of home as an office' which your company can pay you, no tax from you, tax relief for your Limited Company. Saves nearly £50 a year in corporation tax.

That is it. You might be able to reclaim your mobile phone bill if the contract is in your company's name.

Fact is, your company provides you. It doesn't have particularly high costs, which is why your corporation tax bill will be 'high'.

If you're a contractor, use a contractor specialist accountant - www.gorillaaccounting.com is who I use. And don't spend all the money you get paid by your client, it isn't all yours to spend. Rule of thumb: allow about 1/3 of what you get in from the client to pay VAT and corp tax. And pay your self assessment tax out of your money, not your company's money.

zeitghost
12th September 2017, 07:27
he's a straight arrow wouldn't give me the answers i am looking for : )

:rollin:

I suppose this clown realises that Hector reads these boards?

Nah.

Silly question.

Of course not. :smokin

SeededLoaf
12th September 2017, 07:30
Max out your pension payments. That will reduce your corp tax.

You'll be old before you know it.

TheFaQQer
12th September 2017, 08:45
:rollin:

I suppose this clown realises that Hector reads these boards?

Nah.

Silly question.

Of course not. :smokin

You imply that this is genuine. I suspect it's not.

Lance
12th September 2017, 09:08
he's a straight arrow wouldn't give me the answers i am looking for : )

if he's straight then he's told you that paying from your company into a pension is a perfectly legitimate tax avoidance method. If he's not told you that then:..

1) He's tulip. Get rid.
2) You're making this up and are a sockie
3) You've spent all the money, cannot afford the tax bill, are totally f***ed and your accountant has given up on you.

WTFH
12th September 2017, 09:10
What answers are you looking for?

mattfx
12th September 2017, 09:20
I'm sorry to be a dunce, but what is a "sockie" ?!

Lance
12th September 2017, 09:24
I'm sorry to be a dunce, but what is a "sockie" ?!

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/8/83/A_Sock_Puppet.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090707045712

SueEllen
12th September 2017, 09:26
What answers are you looking for?

Thread lock time?

WTFH
12th September 2017, 09:30
I'm sorry to be a dunce, but what is a "sockie" ?!

It's a puppet on the end of another user's arm that is an attempt at humour/disruption/misinformation.

WTFH
12th September 2017, 09:31
Thread lock time?

Asking for a thread to be locked is a lockable offence :D

Alternatively, I might just merge it with his one from last year.

barrydidit
12th September 2017, 09:32
What answers are you looking for?

He could always kill the entire royal family and declare himself monarch. The crown is exempt from taxation since certain acts of parliament don't apply to them.

WTFH
12th September 2017, 09:35
Duly merged.

mattfx
12th September 2017, 10:57
It's a puppet on the end of another user's arm that is an attempt at humour/disruption/misinformation.

Thanks WTFH

abc111
16th September 2017, 11:25
Because the answers you are looking for are called tax evasion, which is illegal.

nah! he's too busy to advise me in details! i have him as he's cheaper...

abc111
16th September 2017, 11:31
there are accountants who claim that they will make sure that you take away 90% of your income...how do they do it!

what project activities you can claim as expenses -excluding travel, dining and lodging etc.
for example, if you are working on a project and get paid hourly then what activities you can put down that won't attract VAT and tax... i.e. expenses...

expert opinion please no nonsense...

zeitghost
16th September 2017, 11:41
Expert opinion: you are a crusty sock puppet and no mistake.

No hu-man can possibly be this dense and still know how to breathe.

Carry on.

The fines should wake you up a bit.

WTFH
16th September 2017, 11:46
there are accountants who claim that they will make sure that you take away 90% of your income...how do they do it!

what project activities you can claim as expenses -excluding travel, dining and lodging etc.
for example, if you are working on a project and get paid hourly then what activities you can put down that won't attract VAT and tax... i.e. expenses...

expert opinion please no nonsense...

You've made it clear you don't want our expert opinion, so why should anyone bother dispensing it to you. You're looking for people to agree with you. Agreeing with what you've said would contradict the years of experience many of us have and the knowledge/expertise we possess.

Scruff
16th September 2017, 12:15
Please, please "General"...

abc111
16th September 2017, 12:34
You've made it clear you don't want our expert opinion, so why should anyone bother dispensing it to you. You're looking for people to agree with you. Agreeing with what you've said would contradict the years of experience many of us have and the knowledge/expertise we possess.

Ok then what to do?
just last time ...if you could reply i will consider it as an advise...

SueEllen
16th September 2017, 12:44
Ok then what to do?
just last time ...if you could reply i will consider it as an advise...

See Lady Muck's answer above

chopper
16th September 2017, 13:33
there are accountants who claim that they will make sure that you take away 90% of your income...how do they do it!
By running a 'scheme' which later turn out to be illegal and so HMRC come for the rest of their money. See the 'HMRC Scheme Enquiries' forum linked above. It'll be your arse on the line, not your "accountant's" arse when HMRC come knocking.

90% take home is evasion.


what project activities you can claim as expenses -excluding travel, dining and lodging etc.
for example, if you are working on a project and get paid hourly then what activities you can put down that won't attract VAT and tax... i.e. expenses...

expert opinion please no nonsense...

Expert opinion... The only expenses you can claim for relief against tax are expenses incurred wholly and exclusively for the purpose of the business. If you don't incur the expense, then you cannot claim tax relief.

Forget VAT. You add 20% onto your invoice and hand that over to HMRC in full. You don't get to keep it.

To reiterate, to save money on Corporation Tax, you first have to spend the money for a legitimate business purpose (e.g. your mobile phone contract in your company's name, legitimate travel expenses required for that business, legitimate capital expenses, e.g. computer equipment that your business requires, or your accountant's fee for preparing your company's accounts and tax advice he provides, £216 a year for use of home as an office).

If you don't incur the legitimate expense in the first place, you cannot claim tax relief. 19% of £0 expenses is £0 tax saved.

If you are thinking you can put your mortgage costs in, the cost of a new kitchen, your weekly shopping bills, your utility bills - then no you can't.

ladymuck
16th September 2017, 15:32
By running a 'scheme' which later turn out to be illegal and so HMRC come for the rest of their money. See the 'HMRC Scheme Enquiries' forum linked above. It'll be your arse on the line, not your "accountant's" arse when HMRC come knocking.

90% take home is evasion.



Expert opinion... The only expenses you can claim for relief against tax are expenses incurred wholly and exclusively for the purpose of the business. If you don't incur the expense, then you cannot claim tax relief.

Forget VAT. You add 20% onto your invoice and hand that over to HMRC in full. You don't get to keep it.

To reiterate, to save money on Corporation Tax, you first have to spend the money for a legitimate business purpose (e.g. your mobile phone contract in your company's name, legitimate travel expenses required for that business, legitimate capital expenses, e.g. computer equipment that your business requires, or your accountant's fee for preparing your company's accounts and tax advice he provides, £216 a year for use of home as an office).

If you don't incur the legitimate expense in the first place, you cannot claim tax relief. 19% of £0 expenses is £0 tax saved.

If you are thinking you can put your mortgage costs in, the cost of a new kitchen, your weekly shopping bills, your utility bills - then no you can't.

Here endeth the music news

SueEllen
16th September 2017, 15:38
Here endeth the music news

It's not the answer the poster wants.

chopper
16th September 2017, 15:50
It's not the answer the poster wants.

I suspect if you too had already spent your VAT and CT money, you'd be looking for ways to minimise your liability to HMRC.

SueEllen
16th September 2017, 16:24
I suspect if you too had already spent your VAT and CT money, you'd be looking for ways to minimise your liability to HMRC.

The only advice I can give is pay the VAT immediately and sort out an agreement about the CT.

Lance
16th September 2017, 16:28
I suspect if you too had already spent your VAT and CT money, you'd be looking for ways to minimise your liability to HMRC.

and if the cash has already been spent then any 90% schemes aren't going to help as it's too late.
It's OK though. It's a limited company so has limited liabilities......

Apart from the OP could lose his house, all his possessions. Might not need a house though as prison is a possibility.

WTFH
16th September 2017, 16:34
Please, please "General"...

Where do you think it is?

If I had a pound for every request to move this thread, I'd have £1.20 right now. Tax free.

WTFH
16th September 2017, 16:43
Ok then what to do?
just last time ...if you could reply i will consider it as an advise...

OK, my advice: you can't "save money on VAT"
You charge your client VAT at 20%.
You pay that 20% to HMRC.

Put it like this: If you invoice for £100+VAT = £120, then the client pays £100+VAT = £120.
£120 sits in your business bank account.
When you submit your quarterly VAT return to HMRC, you pay them the £20, leaving £100 in your business account, which is your company money.
I'm not talking about CT, expenses, NIC, personal taxes, etc, just VAT at this stage.

So, I've been good enough to give you factual advice. Please answer the following simple questions which may help us give you further advice:
Have you been doing your VAT returns and paying the VAT to HMRC, or have you been considering that "your money"?
Who was your "chartered accountant"?
Who is currently doing your company accounts?
Who is doing your personal accounts?

Scruff
16th September 2017, 21:05
My advice is leave this forum and join in a more intelligent discussion group. One where the only knobs are on the doors.

greenlake
16th September 2017, 22:22
nah! he's too busy to advise me in details! i have him as he's cheaper...

You should find yourself a new accountant as soon as possible.


there are accountants who claim that they will make sure that you take away 90% of your income...

These accountants will definitely make sure they take away more than 90% of your income....

http://i.imgur.com/c20gOpJ.jpg

SlipTheJab
16th September 2017, 22:49
Yes you can OP, give me all your money and I will give you 91% of it back, better than 90%! HTHBIDI:rollin:

Mordac
17th September 2017, 07:16
Where do you think it is?

If I had a pound for every request to move this thread, I'd have £1.20 right now. Tax free.

Remember, only 90% of it is tax-free...:wink

TheFaQQer
18th September 2017, 08:30
If I had a pound for every request to move this thread, I'd have £1.20 right now. Tax free.

If you send it to me, I'll loan it back to you and you'll pay no tax. My fee for this service is £2.50 per transaction. PM me for details.

Ch0pper
24th October 2017, 17:40
Good Evening


I apologise in advance if this question turns out to be quite basic, but I do need to find out the answer, I have searched here but haven't found an answer so here goes:

My Accountant works for the same firm my LC is registered with and has been with me for almost the duration (three years) since I set the LC up. I do the VAT returns every quarter as usual and am fully paid up on that, so that isn't my issue.

I have been chasing my Accountant on and off for approximately the last 18 months for a statement of CT for 2015, 2016 and now for 2017 so that I can pay it and have done with it, I have the money in a separate account so I am not trying to minimise or avoid anything here (I have read the thread and have noted the understandably low tolerance for shade).

Whenever I get anything by mail from HMRC I file it so I was astonished last Friday to see my Accountant send me copies of CT advice slips from HMRC that I had never laid eyes on before, covering 2015 and 2016 (despite my asking him for this on several occasions as detailed above, and being told 'we will use the CIS to minimise the CT bill if that's what you choose' so I figured I would rather make one payment rather than overpaying and waiting for a refund of CIS.

SO after all that, my question is this:

Do HMRC notify the individual LC owner at their home address of the size of the bill etc. or do they merely send the CT statements/payment demands to the registered company address (i.e. my Accountant's place of business)?

I find it difficult to believe that HMRC, if their policy is to notify the individual LC owner at their home address, would fail to do so not once but twice (and maybe a third time this year) in my case. So my inclination is to believe that my accountant is a useless sack of shit who will be dumped from a great height in the very near future. HMRC want to charge me several £100 as a result of late/failure to pay CT for the previous two years. A fine which I lay completely at his door as I have the means to pay the outstanding tax bill.

I have been asking him on and off for the past 18 months about this CT issue and have not had a satisfactory answer from him, if it turns out that I am being fined for an issue not of my own making there will shortly be one less useless accountant to worry about :)

Any advice will be welcome

TIA

Lance
24th October 2017, 19:11
Good Evening

>SNIP<



I have been chasing my Accountant on and off for approximately the last 18 months for a statement of CT for 2015, 2016 and now for 2017

>SNIP<

I have been asking him on and off for the past 18 months about this CT issue and have not had a satisfactory answer from him, if it turns out that I am being fined for an issue not of my own making there will shortly be one less useless accountant to worry about :)




Oops. You're responsible, your accountant isn't.

3 years with no CT????? Really?????
And it's someone else's fault???


You can sack your accountant. Who's going to sack you?

As for advice. I suggest you cough up sharpish. How much? You may need another accountant, or better than that pay more than you think and get a rebate once it's calculated.

Ch0pper
24th October 2017, 19:42
Oops. You're responsible, your accountant isn't.

3 years with no CT????? Really?????
And it's someone else's fault???


You can sack your accountant. Who's going to sack you?

As for advice. I suggest you cough up sharpish. How much? You may need another accountant, or better than that pay more than you think and get a rebate once it's calculated.



Thank you.

You haven't actually read the post through, based on your answer. Did you miss the part where I said, more than once, that I had been asking my accountant about the outstanding CT bill??????

My question remains, do HMRC notify me via letter to my home address (which they have on file)or do they only notify the registered address of my LC?

FYI I know exactly how much I owe and I have no issue with the amount or in paying it, my issue is with the responsibility of notification. I received nothing from HMRC for either year.

So either they have not notified me for whatever reason, or hey don't have to and the obligation is with my Accountant, and my Accountant has failed to notify me, because he is a simpleton.

When your CT bill arrives is it direct from HMRC or via your accountant?

Lance
24th October 2017, 19:52
You haven't actually read the post through, based on your answer. Did you miss the part where I said, more than once, that I had been asking my accountant about the outstanding CT bill??????Yes I read it.



My question remains, do HMRC notify me via letter to my home address (which they have on file)or do they only notify the registered address of my LC? Company address only.




FYI I know exactly how much I owe and I have no issue with the amount or in paying it, my issue is with the responsibility of notification. I received nothing from HMRC for either year. Then why haven't you paid it?




So either they have not notified me for whatever reason, or hey don't have to and the obligation is with my Accountant, and my Accountant has failed to notify me, because he is a simpleton. No obligation is with your accountant (simpleton or not, but if you know he's a simpleton whay have you let this slip?). You're the director.




When your CT bill arrives is it direct from HMRC or via your accountant? Neither. I get a final set of accounts from the accountant and pay before HMRC even know how much I owe them.


You've nowhere to hide on this one. Your accountant might be a twat, but he's YOUR accountant. It's your responsibility.

Ch0pper
25th October 2017, 05:34
Yes I read it.

Company address only.


Then why haven't you paid it?


No obligation is with your accountant (simpleton or not, but if you know he's a simpleton whay have you let this slip?). You're the director.


Neither. I get a final set of accounts from the accountant and pay before HMRC even know how much I owe them.


You've nowhere to hide on this one. Your accountant might be a twat, but he's YOUR accountant. It's your responsibility.



This was all I wanted to know. Thank you. This means the onus is on my accountant to communicate to me how much I owe, and he has failed to do so.

You can keep the rest of the condescension, pouring that on took time out of your life that you can never get back.

Fred Bloggs
25th October 2017, 05:58
This was all I wanted to know. Thank you. This means the onus is on my accountant to communicate to me how much I owe, and he has failed to do so.

You can keep the rest of the condescension, pouring that on took time out of your life that you can never get back.
I think you're missing something here. It matters not what he accountant does or doesn't do. It is you as the director to make absolutely sure you trade in line with all company legislation and this means determining your company tax and paying it on time. Like the previous poster says, you have nowhere to hide on this one. my recommendation is you need to find a decent accountant and in addition get up to speed with what you're responsibilities really are regrading running a Ltd Company. Put even more bluntly, if you don't pay your Ltd Co's tax, it isn't the accountant who goes to jail.

northernladuk
25th October 2017, 06:39
I think you're missing something here. It matters not what he accountant does or doesn't do. It is you as the director to make absolutely sure you trade in line with all company legislation and this means determining your company tax and paying it on time. Like the previous poster says, you have nowhere to hide on this one. my recommendation is you need to find a decent accountant and in addition get up to speed with what you're responsibilities really are regrading running a Ltd Company. Put even more bluntly, if you don't pay your Ltd Co's tax, it isn't the accountant who goes to jail.

Indeed but surely the accountant has a duty of care here. The OP might be ultimately responsible but if the accountant has failed to do basic stuff and keep him in the dark some of that liability can be passed to him. Just because you are the director it doesn't mean the accountant can get away with acting negligently.

Scruff
25th October 2017, 07:05
Your accountant sounds incompetent. I'm afraid that your responsibility as a Director doesn't excuse that. We all know that we have to pay Corporation Tax, but it does sound as though you have buried your head in the sand here. You could always have called HMRC and got the info.

Did you not review the Company Tax Return?

Lance
25th October 2017, 07:21
This was all I wanted to know. Thank you. This means the onus is on my accountant to communicate to me how much I owe, and he has failed to do so.

You can keep the rest of the condescension, pouring that on took time out of your life that you can never get back.

My time is only wasted if you ignore the important points. Which you have.
As for the accountant. You chose him. You have paid him for 3 years. Why haven't you sacked him?

I say that you are wilfully committing tax evasion and using your accountant as an excuse. Expect to be fined by HMRC and to have to pay interest at the very least.

As for condescension.... This is general. And you're deliberately not paying your dues.

northernladuk
25th October 2017, 07:41
I say that you are wilfully committing tax evasion and using your accountant as an excuse.
.

I don't see he's wilfully doing it. I don't think HMRC care the reason though.

Lance
25th October 2017, 07:55
I don't see he's wilfully doing it. I don't think HMRC care the reason though.

Stashing it away in another account when you know it's owed seems wilful to me.

You're right though. They don't care.

Ch0pper
25th October 2017, 07:57
I don't see he's wilfully doing it. I don't think HMRC care the reason though.


I have been fined a small amount for a late return. I do not have an issue with this from HMRC's side and I have paid the bill.

The question I had was a simple one, or so I thought. Where do HMRC send the details of how much CT is owed?

If HMRC only notify the LC registered office, which is my accountant's firm and not my home address, how am I supposed to know how much to pay unless he sends me the form he got from HMRC detailing this? He has finally sent the HMRC forms from 2015 and 2016 to me, as of last Friday 20 October 2017, which is the first time I have laid eyes on them. I have been asking him about this for 18 months on and off and have been told that I can wait and use my CIS contributions to offset the CT bill.

I am not an accountant, obviously, so I follow the advice he gives me. When you go to the mechanic are you supposed to know as much about the car as he does?

Essentially I now know my accountant is not doing the job as I require it so I shall take my business elsewhere.

Thank you all for your contributions.

WTFH
25th October 2017, 08:02
I have been fined a small amount for a late return. I do not have an issue with this from HMRC's side and I have paid the bill.

The question I had was a simple one, or so I thought. Where do HMRC send the details of how much CT is owed?

If HMRC only notify the LC registered office, which is my accountant's firm and not my home address, how am I supposed to know how much to pay unless he sends me the form he got from HMRC detailing this? He has finally sent the HMRC forms from 2015 and 2016 to me, as of last Friday 20 October 2017, which is the first time I have laid eyes on them. I have been asking him about this for 18 months on and off and have been told that I can wait and use my CIS contributions to offset the CT bill.

I am not an accountant, obviously, so I follow the advice he gives me. When you go to the mechanic are you supposed to know as much about the car as he does?

Essentially I now know my accountant is not doing the job as I require it so I shall take my business elsewhere.

But when you buy a car, it's registered to you, not the mechanic.

I know lots of people like to register their companies to an accountant's address, etc, but unless you are paying the accountant to forward everything to you then you run the risk of not seeing everything. If the accountant is the only one to see the information, then maybe it's best to give them access to your business account and make them responsible for paying the money as well.

FrontEnder
25th October 2017, 08:29
I have been fined a small amount for a late return. I do not have an issue with this from HMRC's side and I have paid the bill.

The question I had was a simple one, or so I thought. Where do HMRC send the details of how much CT is owed?

The answer to your simple question is they will send it to the address they have registered for the limited company. So in your case, it seems to be your accountant. The question is simple, but from the rest of your posts it's clear that there is more you need to know than the answer to that question.


If HMRC only notify the LC registered office, which is my accountant's firm and not my home address, how am I supposed to know how much to pay unless he sends me the form he got from HMRC detailing this?

You should know when your accounts are due and any other deadlines for payment of taxes (VAT, PAYE etc.) This is legally your responsibility and not your accountants. This is the first google result to (https://www.gov.uk/pay-corporation-tax) "when is my corporation tax due".


You must pay your Corporation Tax 9 months and 1 day after the end of your accounting period. Your accounting period is usually your financial year, but you may have 2 accounting periods in the year you set up your company.


Asking your account "on and off for 18 months" doesn't sound like you've been particularly pro active.

Your mechanic example is irrelevant. You are a director of a company and that comes with legal responsibilities. Bad advice from an accountant doesn't absolve you of them, as harsh as that may seem.

Ch0pper
25th October 2017, 08:38
Your accountant sounds incompetent. I'm afraid that your responsibility as a Director doesn't excuse that. We all know that we have to pay Corporation Tax, but it does sound as though you have buried your head in the sand here. You could always have called HMRC and got the info.

Did you not review the Company Tax Return?


Well, perhaps foolishly I thought I could trust his advice and competence. You don't have a dog and bark yourself, after all.
I had no head buried anywhere, I have/had the money to cover it and have paid it, I was more trying to ascertain blame rather than fault. It could have been my accountant to blame or it could have been myself. But as I have requested the information from him for an 18 month period that I only received on Friday I am happy that it's on his shoulders and while I am liable for the bill for his incompetence I can now transfer my business elsewhere.

northernladuk
25th October 2017, 08:55
But when you buy a car, it's registered to you, not the mechanic.

I know lots of people like to register their companies to an accountant's address, etc, but unless you are paying the accountant to forward everything to you then you run the risk of not seeing everything. If the accountant is the only one to see the information, then maybe it's best to give them access to your business account and make them responsible for paying the money as well.

I must have read this thread all wrong as I seem to have a bit of sympathy for the OP but no one else does.

The mechanic example doesn't work as you aren't in a contract with a mechanic to manage your car like you are with an accountant to manage your finances. Not the same at all.

You do run the risk of not seeing it. The same risk every single one of us that has an address at the accountants. Which is a lot of us! There surely has to be a level of responsibility from the accountant to furnish you with the correct information and if he doesn't he's at fault. I don't know what level of fault or what you can do about it but some of the blame has to lay with them. I've had an accountant mess up a return in the past and after complaining he paid the fine. He also messed up other stuff and I couldn't see any of it so I left and went to a contractor specialist with the right tools. Yes I was ultimately responsible yadda yadda but forget that. That's not helpful. There still has to be a level of professionalism from the accountant. If he gets information on your account about what to pay when he's got to pass it on surely? If he doesn't he's at fault. Forget the 'ultimately it's you' argument. That doesn't help anything. Accountants can still balls up and that's the problem the OP has?

I'm quite happy to hold my hand up and admit I've got an idea when things happen and are due but I rely very heavily on the accountant to manage/remind/deliver to correct timelines. It's part of the service the offerend/I pay for/we've signed for. I'd probably have a hiccup if my accountants suddenly stopped carrying out his duties as well. Maybe not to this extent but you get my meaning.

Maybe I've missed something in the original post where the OP is truly at fault here but looks a bit harsh to keep blaming him for everything. Some of this has to lay with the accountant surely?

WTFH
25th October 2017, 09:00
I must have read this thread all wrong as I seem to have a bit of sympathy for the OP but no one else does.

The mechanic example doesn't work as you aren't in a contract with a mechanic to manage your car like you are with an accountant to manage your finances. Not the same at all.

You do run the risk of not seeing it. The same risk every single one of us that has an address at the accountants. Which is a lot of us! There surely has to be a level of responsibility from the accountant to furnish you with the correct information and if he doesn't he's at fault. I don't know what level of fault or what you can do about it but some of the blame has to lay with them. I've had an accountant mess up a return in the past and after complaining he paid the fine. He also messed up other stuff and I couldn't see any of it so I left and went to a contractor specialist with the right tools. Yes I was ultimately responsible yadda yadda but forget that. That's not helpful. There still has to be a level of professionalism from the accountant. If he gets information on your account about what to pay when he's got to pass it on surely? If he doesn't he's at fault. Forget the 'ultimately it's you' argument. That doesn't help anything. Accountants can still balls up and that's the problem the OP has?

I'm quite happy to hold my hand up and admit I've got an idea when things happen and are due but I rely very heavily on the accountant to manage/remind/deliver to correct timelines. It's part of the service the offerend/I pay for/we've signed for. I'd probably have a hiccup if my accountants suddenly stopped carrying out his duties as well. Maybe not to this extent but you get my meaning.

Maybe I've missed something in the original post where the OP is truly at fault here but looks a bit harsh to keep blaming him for everything. Some of this has to lay with the accountant surely?


Sorry, I didn't mean to be too harsh on ch0pper (who isn't the OP), was just trying to point out the pitfalls. Hopefully he will get this all sorted quickly
and maybe he'll switch to one of the accountants recommended/advertising on here.

northernladuk
25th October 2017, 09:06
Sorry, I didn't mean to be too harsh on ch0pper (who isn't the OP), was just trying to point out the pitfalls. Hopefully he will get this all sorted quickly
and maybe he'll switch to one of the accountants recommended/advertising on here.

Amen to that. He needs dump the shower he's with at the moment for sure.

Ch0pper
25th October 2017, 10:53
Thank you all for the advice.

I am about to look through the recommended accountants thread and select one.

Re the mechanic thing, it was more to point out that you take on trust what a mechanic tells you as a rule, you can't be expected to know as much about the automobile industry as he does, and to me its similar when you engage an accountant, and when they advise you on matters financial then you tend to take it on trust that they are telling you the right things and providing proper advice. My accountant had ample opportunity to send me those forms and failed to do so. 'Google is your friend' but if Google was the answer to everything we would all be out of work.

Clearly he has let me down and I will remedy that.

Scruff
25th October 2017, 10:58
The only point that I've tried to make, is that it's your duty as YourCo Director to ensure compliance. The accountant acts on your instructions, ultimately. It's not knocking you, but the fact that ignoring your Fiduciary Duties under the context of being ignorant is not a valid excuse.

radish2008
25th October 2017, 12:46
Don't forget about the hookers and coke habit.

Haha - beat me to it.